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MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:16 PM Jun 2014

From a literary standpoint, The Bible is the most important work of Western Literature.

Seriously, you could never understand Milton's Paradise Lost without the basis of The Bible.

The Bible is incredibly important in understanding Dante Alighieri's Divina Commedia.

So much of Western Literature is absolutely dependent upon that work.

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From a literary standpoint, The Bible is the most important work of Western Literature. (Original Post) MohRokTah Jun 2014 OP
Bushwah HERVEPA Jun 2014 #1
Then you have no basic understanding of Western Literature. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #5
Homer is the father of Western canon. Rex Jun 2014 #20
Then you would have no problem characterizing The Bible as Evan S. Connell saw those writers. . . Journeyman Jun 2014 #2
Pretty much hits the nail on the head. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #6
the bible is largely unreadable waddirum Jun 2014 #3
Me. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #4
I read the King Jame's Version through, and selected sections from other translations. . . Journeyman Jun 2014 #13
I'm neither ignorant nor illiterate waddirum Jun 2014 #16
My comment had nothing to do with whether you read it but that your criticism was puerile. . . Journeyman Jun 2014 #21
The book of Esther is not boring. ChazII Jun 2014 #28
Its the most commercially successful piece of fiction. HooptieWagon Jun 2014 #7
Hear, Hear! defacto7 Jun 2014 #29
Not to mention not much from the Bible was original. Mostly just a rip-off of Sumerian myths. nt Quixote1818 Jun 2014 #31
So is this logic correct? LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #8
No. You've got it wrong. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #12
I think it's ONE OF the most important works if you count all the books together, LuvNewcastle Jun 2014 #9
I disagree, it's more important. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #10
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then. LuvNewcastle Jun 2014 #18
horsehocky nt GusBob Jun 2014 #11
Read a book. eom MohRokTah Jun 2014 #14
Seriously? Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #15
True. Doesn't mean I have to believe in its virtues. nt alp227 Jun 2014 #17
Better than Homer? Rex Jun 2014 #19
The bible is referenced in a lot of other works, but it's not all that influential in terms of style LeftyMom Jun 2014 #22
Actually, Milton and Alighieri don't Western Literature make. Knowledge of Catholic Church dogma ancianita Jun 2014 #23
Here's my take HeiressofBickworth Jun 2014 #24
Oh I dig, Hillary meant it's influential in a Cliff Notes way whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #25
It's a huge piece of the puzzle, to be sure, but unequivocally "most important"? nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #26
Don't really care much for Western literature. liberal_at_heart Jun 2014 #27
The Bible isn't even a work defacto7 Jun 2014 #30
Precisely why Jefferson called it a "Dunghill" nt Quixote1818 Jun 2014 #32
The Epic of Gilgamesh. Without it, it's doubtful the Bible would have existed cali Jun 2014 #33
I wouldn't say most important, I would say influential and in a bad way Quixote1818 Jun 2014 #34
n=2 does not make a proof. GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #35
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
20. Homer is the father of Western canon.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:18 AM
Jun 2014

But some people don't know history well enough to believe anything came before the Bible.

Sad really.

Journeyman

(15,001 posts)
2. Then you would have no problem characterizing The Bible as Evan S. Connell saw those writers. . .
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:25 PM
Jun 2014
People like to say that if Dante, Petrarch, Chaucer,
Boccaccio, Calderón, Lord Bacon, Shakespeare and Milton
had never lived we would experience worse wars, usury,
more oppressive fraud, malfeasance and servitude.
I doubt it. I think they functioned as entertainers
who taught nothing. I submit the continuation of
everything they abhorred substantiates my argument.

Evan S. Connell, Points for a Compass Rose
 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
6. Pretty much hits the nail on the head.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:34 PM
Jun 2014

So many people are unable to accept The Bible as literature.

Just like any other works of mythology are literary works.

waddirum

(976 posts)
3. the bible is largely unreadable
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:25 PM
Jun 2014

How many people have actually read the bible like a book, cover to cover, left to right (or right to left if in Hebrew)? Not that many I would guess.

Large portions are just mind-numbingly boring. This one begat that one. And so on ad infinitum.

I don't consider it great "literature" since it has such a poor narrative arc.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
4. Me.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:33 PM
Jun 2014

Multiple times in several translations. My favorite was the Student's Edition of the Jerusalem Bible.

Journeyman

(15,001 posts)
13. I read the King Jame's Version through, and selected sections from other translations. . .
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:52 PM
Jun 2014

I've no doubt a substantial number of people have read the bible in full, either cover to cover (as I did with the KJV), selectively while skipping about, or while following a guided plan to read it in a single year (there are many of those available).

To dismiss it as a simple litany of "begats" betrays an ignorance detrimental to intelligent disdain.

Be more selective in your reading. Ecclesiastes is useful, in large measure, as are the "Beatitudes." There's still plenty to criticize, much to hold as worthless, but you'll not be so quick to betray your illiteracy.

waddirum

(976 posts)
16. I'm neither ignorant nor illiterate
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

I just don't waste my time reading unreadable crap. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Journeyman

(15,001 posts)
21. My comment had nothing to do with whether you read it but that your criticism was puerile. . .
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:22 AM
Jun 2014

If you don't "waste (your) time reading unreadable crap," why do you bother commenting on its literary merits?

ChazII

(6,198 posts)
28. The book of Esther is not boring.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:19 AM
Jun 2014

A queen says no so she has to go (Vashti). Enter Esther who foils a plot to wipe out the Jews and Haman is impaled. Queen Esther's hubby, King Xeres is the one who declared the holiday, Purim.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
7. Its the most commercially successful piece of fiction.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:41 PM
Jun 2014

And it has caused more deaths, war, torture, corruption, bigotry, and brainwashing than any other piece of literary fiction in history. If thats your standard for important literature, then go with it.

LostOne4Ever

(9,267 posts)
8. So is this logic correct?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:43 PM
Jun 2014

A majority of western literature is inspired by, at least, some of the bible. Therefore, the bible is the most important work in western Literature.

If that is true, then since some of the Bible was based upon the Epic of Gilgamesh.....doesn't that make the epic of Gilgamesh the most important work in western Literature?

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
12. No. You've got it wrong.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:52 PM
Jun 2014

As a single piece of influence, the Bible has had more of an effect than any other work in Western Literature.

One can understand Western Literature without a good understanding of the Epic of Gilgamesh, but not without a good understanding of The Bible (as literature) and its effect upon Western Literature.

Remember, we are talking about literature.

LuvNewcastle

(16,820 posts)
9. I think it's ONE OF the most important works if you count all the books together,
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:46 PM
Jun 2014

but it isn't THE MOST important book. It's no more important than the works of Plato, Aristotle, or any of the other Pagan authors. It's no more important than Greek or Norse mythology. I think your view is centered on the traditions of Judeo-Christian religion and culture. Sure, you couldn't understand Paradise Lost or the Divine Comedy without knowledge of the Bible, but you couldn't understand those works without knowledge of Pagan Western religions either. The Bible is only a part of a greater whole, and it isn't the most important. There is no most important part.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
10. I disagree, it's more important.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:49 PM
Jun 2014

It's had a bigger effect on Western Literature than any other work you'd care to name.

This doesn't diminish the importance of the other works, but it is by far the single most important work of literature in the West.

LuvNewcastle

(16,820 posts)
18. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

Taken as a group, the works of Shakespeare are just as important. In fact, our theater is directly descended from Greco-Roman plays and culture. I don't know where there are any plays in the Bible, and plays are very significant in Western literature. I have to go to work now on the the graveyard shift, but I wish I could carry on the conversation further. I don't agree with your premise, but it's an interesting discussion, nonetheless.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
15. Seriously?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:06 AM
Jun 2014

It's had a massive impact, that's for sure. But can it be honestly said that it's had a greater impact on literature than the works of Shakespeare or Caesar's war memoirs or Plato's dialogues? I'm not convinced that case can be made.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
22. The bible is referenced in a lot of other works, but it's not all that influential in terms of style
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:28 AM
Jun 2014

We get a lot more of our ideas about narrative structure from Homer, for example. In terms of references, Shakespeare's just about got the bible beat and that's with the bible having a millennia and change of head start. And most of the bible's influence on English has as much or more to do with phrasing in Tyndale and the KJV than with the historical text itself.

If the bible was a big influence on how we use language we'd be much bigger users of allegory, lists and repetition. And we probably wouldn't be having this conversation in English. (If you want to make a case for a text dominating a language's development- and thus a culture- there's a much better case to be made for Arabic and the Koran.)

Of course many of the pillars of "Western Literature" predate or are roughly contemporary with parts of the bible, and "western culture" as we now understand it is largely a product of the rediscovery of those classical texts in the Renaissance.

Long story short: No. History, you fail it.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
23. Actually, Milton and Alighieri don't Western Literature make. Knowledge of Catholic Church dogma
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:32 AM
Jun 2014

helps in each case. Milton's story is only lightly referred to in the NT, being actually a story that Genesis doesn't chronicle and was to have happened before "The Fall of Man" in Genesis, anyway.

The Inferno of Divina Commedia is based on church history of struggles against heresies, papal corruption and the retributions meted out to Alighieri's real world political foes, pre-Christian and non-Christian populations. The rest of the Commedia is based upon Church concepts of grace, sin, love and lost souls. Limbo? Purgatory? Mortal sin? Venial sin? Supernatural grace? Catholic Church constructs. Not in the bible. Weightings of sins and sinners cast throughout levels of hell? Hell as frozen? Purely Alighieri constructs.

I taught World Literature for twenty years. My students got on pretty well without reading "The Bible As Literature." Were there religious concepts to grasp in order to understand some parts of the readings? Sure. But identical exposures were needed from The Koran, Tao Te Ching, Book(s) of the Dead and the Vedas. Because Western Literature had to 'go global' over twenty years ago as part of World Literature.

This claim overestimates the bible's importance in Western Lit.

HeiressofBickworth

(2,682 posts)
24. Here's my take
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:36 AM
Jun 2014

If one is a Christian, one may be disposed to think that the written basis of his/her own religion is THE most important literary work ever. If one is a different religion, then that religion's literary work is the most important. For others (like me) who have no inherent attachment to a specific religious work, there are many sources of inspiration for literary works throughout history. Like building blocks -- one forms the basis for the next, going back to the invention of written language. It's pure ego that says that one can't appreciate other literary works without first reading their preferred religious text.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
26. It's a huge piece of the puzzle, to be sure, but unequivocally "most important"?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:04 AM
Jun 2014

Maybe if you're going by the greatest number of references/allusions, then you could make the case. But when one considers Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Hesiod, Sophocles - and those are just the Greeks - it would be hard to say that the Bible dwarfs all of them combined, though perhaps it does each of them individually .

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
30. The Bible isn't even a work
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:52 AM
Jun 2014

let alone most important. It's a disjointed mishmash of mostly badly translated and hacked over crib notes from more writers and re-writers and medicinal fixers than any other work in history. In that, it is the most important example of bad literature ever. As far as influence, it can't be denied that such horribly written literature would have a great effect on centuries of societies that had either no choice but to use it under duress, use it as prime allegory for public response, or as a compass toward the non-divine.

From a literary standpoint, the Bible just may be the most interruptive conglomeration of anonymous writing that has caused so much anti-intellectualism over nonsense of all Western Literature.

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
34. I wouldn't say most important, I would say influential and in a bad way
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:32 AM
Jun 2014

The Bible kept civilization stagnant for a very long time.

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