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Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:42 AM Jun 2014

Dennis J. Kucinich: Stop Calling the Iraq War a 'Mistake'

Stop Calling the Iraq War a 'Mistake'

As Iraq descends into chaos again, more than a decade after "Mission Accomplished," media commentators and politicians have mostly agreed upon calling the war a "mistake." But the "mistake" rhetoric is the language of denial, not contrition: it minimizes the Iraq War's disastrous consequences, removes blame, and deprives Americans of any chance to learn from our generation's foreign policy disaster. The Iraq War was not a "mistake" -- it resulted from calculated deception. The painful, unvarnished fact is that we were lied to. Now is the time to have the willingness to say that.

In fact, the truth about Iraq was widely available, but it was ignored. There were no WMD. Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. The war wasn't about liberating the Iraqi people. I said this in Congress in 2002. Millions of people who marched in America in protest of the war knew the truth, but were maligned by members of both parties for opposing the president in a time of war -- and even leveled with the spurious charge of "not supporting the troops."

I've written and spoken widely about this topic, so today I offer two ways we can begin to address our role:

1) President Obama must tell us the truth about Iraq and the false scenario that caused us to go to war.
When Obama took office in 2008, he announced that his administration would not investigate or prosecute the architects of the Iraq War. Essentially, he suspended public debate about the war. That may have felt good in the short term for those who wanted to move on, but when you're talking about a war initiated through lies, bygones can't be bygones.

The unwillingness to confront the truth about the Iraq War has induced a form of amnesia which is hazardous to our nation's health. Willful forgetting doesn't heal, it opens the door to more lying. As today's debate ensues about new potential military "solutions" to stem violence in Iraq, let's remember how and why we intervened in Iraq in 2003.

2) Journalists and media commentators should stop giving inordinate air and print time to people who were either utterly wrong in their support of the war or willful in their calculations to make war.



..........more......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-j-kucinich/stop-calling-the-iraq-war_b_5499375.html

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Dennis J. Kucinich: Stop Calling the Iraq War a 'Mistake' (Original Post) Ichingcarpenter Jun 2014 OP
these are the facts. this is the truth. go ahead, make fun of Kucinich, try cali Jun 2014 #1
"The Iraq War was not a "mistake" -- it resulted from calculated deception." Scuba Jun 2014 #10
I agree. That's a much more accurate description. Overseas Jun 2014 #33
In other words, it was not a war, it was a war crime. grahamhgreen Jun 2014 #115
Bingo. Scuba Jun 2014 #123
Come on now. Some people *CHOSE* to accept the lies. newthinking Jun 2014 #130
Kucinich has been right about all of this from the beginning. He KNEW they were lying sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #54
Cegelis, Lamont, McKinney, Halter, Romanoff, Sestak, Grayson, Kucinich, Buono, Rev. Sykes, Davis MisterP Jun 2014 #85
Siegelman? nt. druidity33 Jun 2014 #116
They all knew the truth. Only some choose to stand with the MIC. nm rhett o rick Jun 2014 #103
Yes, they did, I do not believe the 'but we didn't know' excuses. They either supported sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #140
"All of them should be held accountable depending on their level of involvement and corroboration." rhett o rick Jun 2014 #145
Ex-Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich & Senator Barbara Boxer ticket in 2016. WilliamTuckness Jun 2014 #120
I would go for that ticket. And yes, SHAME on those who went after Kucinich, but we always knew sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #139
+1000 valerief Jun 2014 #73
That is why DK gets unfairly treated like a fringe groupie...he tells the truth. Rex Jun 2014 #89
"Truth Groupie"! n/t Beartracks Jun 2014 #106
Make Fun Of Him? billhicks76 Jun 2014 #107
damned right! wish I could rec your post. n/t wildbilln864 Jun 2014 #110
He would make a great president, and if I had the opportunity to vote for him, I wouldn't hesitate sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #146
Trojan Horses billhicks76 Jun 2014 #150
Yes, I was never fooled by them. Because no actual Democrat could have found a single sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #151
Yes!!!!!! billhicks76 Jun 2014 #152
everyone would have KNOWN it wasn't a mistake Skittles Jun 2014 #2
But then it would potentially be much more difficult to get Americans to support future wars! stillwaiting Jun 2014 #19
blah blah blah. Where's the Kardashian thread? Beartracks Jun 2014 #66
Wanna prevent unnecessary future wars? randys1 Jun 2014 #76
That old saw has been played to it's death, it's an historically proven fallacy. 2banon Jun 2014 #93
I am confused, how can you know it wont work if it has NEVER NEVER NEVER randys1 Jun 2014 #95
put that chickenhawk bastard William Kristol at the top of that list Skittles Jun 2014 #100
... randys1 Jun 2014 #109
He'll get a deferment for senility erronis Jun 2014 #111
Let's not forget Dick Cheney YOHABLO Jun 2014 #117
that is where we keep screwing up awoke_in_2003 Jun 2014 #31
Sort of like... TommyCelt Jun 2014 #90
they need to start with number 2 and move from there rpannier Jun 2014 #3
A terrible shame that DK couldn't be President intaglio Jun 2014 #4
Yeah Buttttt gholtron Jun 2014 #30
gholtron what's your UFO point? I've never seen a billionaire accept bonniebgood Jun 2014 #32
so everyone should have the same opinion as you? gholtron Jun 2014 #147
I saw a UFO when I was about 7 years old and I'm not a billionare, and never saw another UFO. Sunlei Jun 2014 #47
Twice for me. Both times on the San Francisco Plateau in AZ. snort Jun 2014 #72
Twice! I always thought if I ever saw one again, I wouldn't turn and run! Sunlei Jun 2014 #131
Yup. snort Jun 2014 #132
when I visit my Moms house, I always love to walk out to that sandy clearing. Its still there. Sunlei Jun 2014 #135
Dennis would have used the bully pulpit to explain Enthusiast Jun 2014 #77
That maybe true gholtron Jun 2014 #148
At the time a majority of Americans were in favor of the public option. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #149
Thanks for letting me know to Ignore you! nt valerief Jun 2014 #80
+1. He's a nutjob, who finally landed his dream job. And yes, he did claim to see a UFO. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #94
Great quote on seeing UFOs RufusTFirefly Jun 2014 #122
Did Jimmy make this "courageous" disclosure before or after he was elected? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #124
BEFORE: It was in the public record when he was Govenor Ichingcarpenter Jun 2014 #129
Might help explain why a second term escaped him. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #136
One of those guys in your avatar claimed to see a good reason to bomb the shit out of Iraq. flvegan Jun 2014 #142
And yet, both the guys in my avatar got a 2nd term. See how that works? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #144
But he doesn't look Presidential geomon666 Jun 2014 #51
And he was also the only possible candidate with less than 30% approval in his own home state. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #91
And another thing, he was against the war and H. Clinton was for it. I guess we should support rhett o rick Jun 2014 #96
I could care less who you guys support. I'm just stating the fact that DK was a DU phenom. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #98
K&R deutsey Jun 2014 #5
Spot On Bette R. Daize Jun 2014 #6
That simple malaise Jun 2014 #7
Galloway is a rogue .. Lenomsky Jun 2014 #13
Please! It is TOE the line Demeter Jun 2014 #15
My favorite Galloway moments malaise Jun 2014 #17
Yes, but "apparently" he is so bad for their "ratings"... Amonester Jun 2014 #46
K & R for the truth! n/t xocet Jun 2014 #8
refreshing Vattel Jun 2014 #9
Kucinich is spot-on -- that's a critically important distinction. n/t Martin Eden Jun 2014 #11
I agree with Mr Kucinich 100% !!!!!!!!! SamKnause Jun 2014 #12
Until there are War Crime Trials, there will be no resolution Demeter Jun 2014 #14
Kucinich's truth reveals the lie in all of us Fairgo Jun 2014 #16
"Calculated deception" indeed. democrank Jun 2014 #18
" Millions of people who marched in America in protest of the war" 90-percent Jun 2014 #20
Nailed it. ctsnowman Jun 2014 #21
Word. Octafish Jun 2014 #22
Disappointed jaxind Jun 2014 #23
If Obama heaven05 Jun 2014 #28
They're already causing plenty of "racial uproar", whatever that is Doctor_J Jun 2014 #87
you're entitled to your opinion heaven05 Jun 2014 #104
President Obama will be fortunate if those war criminals don't prosecute him. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #78
Yep. that's what happens when you try to make friends with rabid animals. Doctor_J Jun 2014 #88
What you mean is corporate power and MIC influence WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2014 #118
Yes. That is what I mean. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #127
Very well stated and very true: Raksha Jun 2014 #113
And while we're at it, when horrified by the number of Iraqis executed by Isis, try to morningfog Jun 2014 #24
yeah, that shock and awe :( and then on ebay the next many years... Sunlei Jun 2014 #36
Bravo. blackspade Jun 2014 #25
+1000 heaven05 Jun 2014 #26
I wish we could get back that billion on pallets of cash! Bush sent there from Cheneys bank. Sunlei Jun 2014 #37
K&R Go Kooch! RoccoR5955 Jun 2014 #27
a good article! But at this point, IMO..its Assad & letting him get away with all his bs that has sp Sunlei Jun 2014 #29
The US and its allies have been trying to overthrow Assad. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2014 #137
I know. He got his huge family/close friends out of Syria and went to Geneva. Sunlei Jun 2014 #138
Well, can't say I have much respect for Dennis Kucinich... MohRokTah Jun 2014 #34
Well, you seem to like back-handed compliments... chervilant Jun 2014 #52
I'm not going to praise a man I have little respect for. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #57
Yeppers... chervilant Jun 2014 #58
. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #60
K&R. He tells it like it is. Overseas Jun 2014 #35
k&r... spanone Jun 2014 #38
I remember... MynameisBlarney Jun 2014 #39
I remember... chervilant Jun 2014 #56
Yup. MynameisBlarney Jun 2014 #62
We have become the nation of the very few, chervilant Jun 2014 #70
I believe Kucinich is correct rock Jun 2014 #40
America’s news media is a key player polynomial Jun 2014 #41
Some quotes from Dennis Ichingcarpenter Jun 2014 #42
thanks! G_j Jun 2014 #49
Dennis was my first choice for president. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #79
Same for me, on both counts... ljm2002 Jun 2014 #155
it's been a long time since I've read those quotes mokawanis Jun 2014 #108
He was my first choice when he ran. Javaman Jun 2014 #43
Same here. MynameisBlarney Jun 2014 #53
Me too. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #81
Thank you. MuseRider Jun 2014 #44
To put it plainly, I believe that the war was the result of a conspiracy within the highest ladjf Jun 2014 #45
There is no question about it. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #83
meh, they still have wiggle room treestar Jun 2014 #48
I disagree... I think it could be proven they knew. SomethingFishy Jun 2014 #86
Proving all that is the problem treestar Jun 2014 #105
That is why I have supported Kooch for many a year. riqster Jun 2014 #50
We Are Docile gussmith Jun 2014 #55
K&R Jamastiene Jun 2014 #59
Mistake? What we are seeing right now is "Mission Accomplished". Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #61
TROOF. n/t Orsino Jun 2014 #63
Ah,...but Kucinich was (and still is) "unelectable" according to sensible woodchuck. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #64
Screw the woodchuck... RoccoR5955 Jun 2014 #121
They gerrymandered this man out of office last year. toby jo Jun 2014 #65
Kucinich is bang on about this. Calling the Iraq War a "mistake" is a grave understatement. antiGOPin294 Jun 2014 #67
Kooch! navarth Jun 2014 #68
K&R nt redqueen Jun 2014 #69
I really wish Dennis would enter the Democratic presidential primary contest. I'd work Zorra Jun 2014 #71
Kucinich is correct pleinair Jun 2014 #74
K&R! This post has hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #75
The Oligarch Overlords will decide what "truths" will be told or not told. nm rhett o rick Jun 2014 #99
Apparently. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #102
Why would Obama and the press do...... DeSwiss Jun 2014 #82
Green Day's American Idiot returns. Democrats_win Jun 2014 #84
There was no appetite for one administration prosecuting another, just as there was no appetite for Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #92
Do you argree that calling the war a mistake is wrong? nm rhett o rick Jun 2014 #97
Yes I "argree" (sp.)? And I also agree that while DK is popular "UNDERGROUND", up on the surface... Tarheel_Dem Jun 2014 #101
K & R - I was about to post this article myself. Raksha Jun 2014 #112
K&r n/t lordsummerisle Jun 2014 #114
The time to STOP this atrocity was before it got started. bvar22 Jun 2014 #119
I Agree 100% With Dennis Kucinich!!! supercats Jun 2014 #125
The Iraq War was not a "mistake" -- it resulted from CALCULATED DECEPTION blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #126
One must ask, at first Twenty1first Jun 2014 #128
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Jun 2014 #133
''Money trumps peace.'' -- George W Bush, Feb. 14, 2007, White House press conference Octafish Jun 2014 #134
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #141
K&R Solly Mack Jun 2014 #143
With great respect, I think Mr. Kucinich is wrong. KentuckyWoman Jun 2014 #153
Not a mistake--an illegal invasion is a *war crime*. tblue37 Jun 2014 #154
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
1. these are the facts. this is the truth. go ahead, make fun of Kucinich, try
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:44 AM
Jun 2014

to further marginalize him; it's still fact driven truth.

k&r- thanks for posting this.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
10. "The Iraq War was not a "mistake" -- it resulted from calculated deception."
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:44 AM
Jun 2014

This is the truth.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
130. Come on now. Some people *CHOSE* to accept the lies.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 05:33 AM
Jun 2014

We need to get real on this. Our population is a bit unhealthy, we dismiss the citizens of other countries as primative and violent by nature and just like any bigot we make excuses for what is really a shortcut to our ethics.

Yes, if there are two choices that we benefit from we will generally pick the one that doesn't hurt people. But our population is all aware that many of our actions and policies that hurt people are not necessary, they are wanted to maintain our lifestyle and prop up our corporations and the dollar.

I don't think I have talked to a single person who does not understand this. The prominant answer is either "all nations do it", or some version of the "ends justify the means".

How are we ever going to change. Like an alchoholic or drug abuser, as long as we don't admit to ourselves our real condition we can't resolve it positively.

(Note: I am not saying *everyone* accepts it. Obviously Kucinich doesn't and many people protested the war)

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
54. Kucinich has been right about all of this from the beginning. He KNEW they were lying
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

and said so, THAT is the ONLY reason why the smear campaigns against him were launched. Shame to see Democrats participating rather than standing up for those like Kucinich, who were telling the truth.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
140. Yes, they did, I do not believe the 'but we didn't know' excuses. They either supported
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:13 PM
Jun 2014

these horrific policies or they thought considering the atmosphere of fear that was created, that it would be politically opportune if they had ambitions to rise further in their careers, to support them.

All of them should be held accountable depending on their level of involvement and corroboration.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
145. "All of them should be held accountable depending on their level of involvement and corroboration."
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:25 AM
Jun 2014

I soo agree.

 

WilliamTuckness

(41 posts)
120. Ex-Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich & Senator Barbara Boxer ticket in 2016.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:31 PM
Jun 2014

Agreed sabrina 1, shame on Democrats for not supporting Dennis J. Kucinich since he tells the truth.
How would you all feel about a Ex-Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich & Senator Barbara Boxer ticket in 2016? They both opposed the Iraq War from the start and 76% Americans according to CNN don't want another war, period.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
139. I would go for that ticket. And yes, SHAME on those who went after Kucinich, but we always knew
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:34 PM
Jun 2014

why they were doing it. He was so popular among Dem voters they were terrified that he might actually win. And he definitely could have, if this was a democracy where the people get to choose who THEY want in elected office.

The campaign against him was a disgrace.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
89. That is why DK gets unfairly treated like a fringe groupie...he tells the truth.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jun 2014

As you know...some cannot STAND IT when the truth is uttered.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
107. Make Fun Of Him?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:41 PM
Jun 2014

He was our best choice for President. Only the shallow and superficial wouldn't promote him. He was literally the only one who wasn't treasonous with respect to what this country should represent. He treated the American people like citizens not subjects or a criminalized enemy. And to those who made fun if him for being a vegan? You suck. Bill Clinton is a vegan and Al Gore is a vegetarian and so is Samuel Jackson for that matter who should go Pulp Fiction on your spineless actions. I hope he runs for the Senate.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
146. He would make a great president, and if I had the opportunity to vote for him, I wouldn't hesitate
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:26 PM
Jun 2014

for a second. That is why they had to try to destroy his reputation. Shame on all those who participated in that smear campaign. He was a fearless opponent of Bush's wars. Also he was the one who exposed the 'secret' deal we were making with Maliki to hand over control of 80% or more of Iraq's oil to global Oil Cartels.

When he revealed that this was what was delaying our leaving Iraq, his OWN PARTY threatened to censure him. For telling the TRUTH to the American people.

Who needs Republicans to destroy our most valuable Liberal Democrats when our own party is more than willing to do it for them?

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
150. Trojan Horses
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 06:28 PM
Jun 2014

Those who participated in taking him down are basically corporate Trojan Horses who have infiltrated our party. Paul Wellstone and JFK Jr would spit on them if they weren't so polite.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
151. Yes, I was never fooled by them. Because no actual Democrat could have found a single
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

thing on which to disagree with Kucinich. He was right on EVERYTHING. And that is what this country needs. a leader who GOT IT RIGHT, not these feeble 'oooh, I'm sorry, I wish I had known then what I know now' type excuses way, way too late. Maybe they should have talked to Kucinich and we wouldn't need their useless apologies NOW.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
152. Yes!!!!!!
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 01:19 AM
Jun 2014

The ones who aren't like Dennis are sell outs. Corporate gigalos who lie to get by. I have no sympathy for them. They get paid very well and are offered numerous opportunities whenever they decide to leave office. And these sell outs who waffle and excuse themselves have decided to serve a deadly beast for status and wealth. Whatever respectable things they did 40 years ago doesn't matter anymore...Clinton and Kerry you voted for mass death and suffering. Leahy and Wellstone voted against the war which was a no brainer. If you sided with Bush don't pretend you didn't know he was full of lies. You knew and embraced it.

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
19. But then it would potentially be much more difficult to get Americans to support future wars!
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:27 AM
Jun 2014

That would be horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE for America's "national security".



It's much better to keep Americans in a permanent and distracted haze that is filled with meaningless trivialities and NOT filled with information that might lead them to understanding a narrative that does not fit the needs of the economic elite.


randys1

(16,286 posts)
76. Wanna prevent unnecessary future wars?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:54 PM
Jun 2014

Bring back the draft and make it a rule that any politician in a position to vote for a war action of any kind, his or her relatives must be on the top of the list to be drafted.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
93. That old saw has been played to it's death, it's an historically proven fallacy.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:42 PM
Jun 2014

put this abominable myth to bed already. please!

erronis

(14,941 posts)
111. He'll get a deferment for senility
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:26 PM
Jun 2014

None of those Koch/EI mouthpieces are terribly bright and don't need to be as long as the earpieces are firmly in place and the cosmetologists have done their magic (well, they skipped Krauthumer.)

However, just because we can't let them stride across the sands of Mesopotamia due to their decrepitude, we can certainly put them in front as sub-human shields, or shove them into a nice big mortar to lob over the infidels.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
31. that is where we keep screwing up
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:12 AM
Jun 2014

We are always "moving forward". Presidents will continue to do what they want because they know that they will get away with it

rpannier

(24,304 posts)
3. they need to start with number 2 and move from there
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:08 AM
Jun 2014

the sooner they stop putting mcreaper and ghoulham on tv the better

gholtron

(376 posts)
30. Yeah Buttttt
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:11 AM
Jun 2014
How would he get it through Congress? Remember the blue dog dems? Single payer would have never passsed. The health care plan that we have now barely passed and it cost the dems to lose the House.
BTW... was he the candidate that said he saw a UFO? Hummmm.

bonniebgood

(937 posts)
32. gholtron what's your UFO point? I've never seen a billionaire accept
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:37 AM
Jun 2014

on tv. just because I haven't seen a billionaire doesn't mean they don't exist. Im so
Sick of DU's dissing Dennis K.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
47. I saw a UFO when I was about 7 years old and I'm not a billionare, and never saw another UFO.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:30 AM
Jun 2014

It was very close too.

snort

(2,334 posts)
72. Twice for me. Both times on the San Francisco Plateau in AZ.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:32 PM
Jun 2014

I was born on and spent my wonder years on an Air Force base, my Dad was a fighter pilot. I know what an airplane looks like, all too well. These weren't airplanes. IANAB.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
131. Twice! I always thought if I ever saw one again, I wouldn't turn and run!
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

This is the loc where I saw the UFO. 40.067368, -74.104647 place the loc in the map- https://maps.google.com/

There were much less neighborhoods around the pine barren forest back then. I knew it wasn't a plane because it dropped down to right overhead in a split second, was totally silent. I turned, ran home & didn't look back again!

got a loc for yours?

snort

(2,334 posts)
132. Yup.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:59 AM
Jun 2014

34.543644, -112.501

That was in 1986. Damnedest thing I've ever seen, made even more interesting because it was being 'chased' by a couple of F-16s, probably out of Luke.

The second time was in 1993 close to the same coordinates and was of the classic green capsule with an orange band variety.

I rarely bring it up in public conversation, no matter how credible you may be those who have not witnessed such will invariably turn to mockery. Its not like I asked to see it.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
135. when I visit my Moms house, I always love to walk out to that sandy clearing. Its still there.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 12:15 PM
Jun 2014

Must have been an old Indian camp at one time. A lot of shells in piles, wild blueberry grow among the pine trees, and you can find the places where beavers used to pile their shelters in the bog areas near the water. I think the military knows there is something they don't understand. I doubt we will ever really know or have any 'contact' with whatever it is in our lifetime.

mine was more wispy, almost like a smallish cloud with very muted orangy/green lighting inside when it was up very high.

When it dropped down in an instant Then it was round, flat bottom, smooth gray- still a bit 'wispy or foggy' and had not really detailed lights the orange color more to left side/green to the right- lighting was 'inside' the underside (much like when you look at an amoeba you can see inside its gut.) Its size was large, about half that sandy clearing, it had dropped to 100/200? at the most feet directly above my head. It saw me. Always, wish I didn't run away like a panicked 7 year old! doubt I'll ever experience that again.

Thanks for sharing your experience!



Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
77. Dennis would have used the bully pulpit to explain
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:54 PM
Jun 2014

the advantages of a not for profit single payer system. He wouldn't have allowed a single blue dog—Max Baucus to shut down the single payer discussion.

gholtron

(376 posts)
148. That maybe true
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:23 PM
Jun 2014

I'm not convinced that he would change minds. There were a lot of anger and Blue dogs were afraid to go home and talk to their constituents.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
149. At the time a majority of Americans were in favor of the public option.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:36 PM
Jun 2014

The anger was entirely fabricated by Freedom Works and The Right®.

Funny that you do not know this.

You think that town hall anger was spontaneous?

In this country voters have never even got to hear what single payer is. If the voters knew it was superior in ever single measure yet far cheaper they would insist on single payer. That is why a coalition of for profit medical services providers, the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry organized to stop the discussion. Max Baucus was part of that conspiracy.

The insurance industry is an entirely parasitical entity siphoning off money in a system driven by profit. They serve absolutely no earthly purpose in our health care system. Single payer could eliminate this wasteful drag.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
122. Great quote on seeing UFOs
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:58 PM
Jun 2014
"One thing's for sure, I'll never make fun of people who say they've seen unidentified objects in the sky. If I become President, I'll make every piece of information this country has about UFO sightings available to the public and the scientists." -- Democratic President James Earl "Jimmy" Carter


Dennis Kucinich isn't the only courageous American who reported seeing a UFO. Jimmy Carter did also. Seeing a UFO means just that. Seeing a flying object you can't identify. It doesn't mean seeing little green men. Let me repeat: It means just what it says. Seeing a flying object you can't identify. Why the relentless efforts to smear?

(What would happen to me if I reported an unidentified sockpuppet, I wonder?)

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
124. Did Jimmy make this "courageous" disclosure before or after he was elected?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:52 PM
Jun 2014



And as for "sockpuppetry", I dare say you probably have a much better handle on that practice than I do.



Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
129. BEFORE: It was in the public record when he was Govenor
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 05:31 AM
Jun 2014

Before


Carter spoke of the sighting in 1973:

“There were about twenty of us standing outside of a little restaurant, I believe, a high school lunch room, and a kind of green light appeared in the western sky. This was right after sundown. It got brighter and brighter. And then it eventually disappeared. It didn’t have any solid substance to it, it was just a very peculiar-looking light. None of us could understand what it was.”



The report transcript


NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA (NICAP)

3535 University Blvd. West

Kensington, Maryland 20795

301-949-1267

REPORT ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT(S)

This form includes questions asked by the United States Air Force and by other Armed Forces’ investigating agencies, and additional questions to which answers are needed for full evaluation by NICAP. After all the information has been fully studied, the conclusions of our Evaluation Panel will be published by NICAP in its regularly issued magazine or in another publication. Please try to answer as many questions as possible. Should you need additional room, please use another sheet of paper. Please print or typewrite. Your assistance is of great value and is genuinely appreciated. Thank you.

1. Name *Jimmy Carter* Place of Employment

Address *State Capitol Atlanta* Occupation *Governor*

Date of Birth

Education *Graduate*

Special Training *Nuclear Physics*

Telephone (404) 656-1776 Military Service *U.S. Navy*

2. Date of Observation *October 1969* Time AM PM Time Zone *7:15* *EST*

3. Locality of Observation *Leary, Georgia*

4. How long did you see the object? [BLANK] Hours *10-12* Minutes [BLANK] Seconds

5. Please describe weather conditions and the type of sky; i.e. bright daylight, nighttime, dusk, etc. *Shortly after dark.*

6. Position of the Sun or Moon in relation to the object and to you. *Not in sight.*

7. If seen at night, twilight, or dawn, were the stars or moon visible? *Stars.*

8. Were there more than one object? *No.* If so, please tell how many, and draw a sketch of what you saw, indicating direction of movement, if any. [BLANK]

9. Please describe the object(s) in detail. For instance, did it (they) appear solid, or only as a source of light; was it revolving, etc.? Please use additional sheets of paper, if necessary. [BLANK]

10. Was the object(s) brighter than the background of the sky? *Yes.*

11. If so, compare the brightness with the Sun, Moon, headlights, etc. *At one time, as bright as the moon.*

12. Did the object(s) — (Please elaborate, if you can give details.)

a. Appear to stand still at any time? *yes*





"Our ignorance of history causes us to slander our own times." - Gustave Flaubert

flvegan

(64,389 posts)
142. One of those guys in your avatar claimed to see a good reason to bomb the shit out of Iraq.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:34 PM
Jun 2014

I'll take UFOs any time, thanks.

geomon666

(7,512 posts)
51. But he doesn't look Presidential
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:46 AM
Jun 2014

He's got the small stature, the big ears, the quiet tone in his voice. You know, cause all of that shit matters more than his policy ideas (which were needed back then and are desperately needed now).

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
91. And he was also the only possible candidate with less than 30% approval in his own home state.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:36 PM
Jun 2014

Contrary to the machinations of DU, there was never any great groundswell for a DK candidacy. He was our Michelle Bachmann, and nothing he's done since losing his seat has changed that impression.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
96. And another thing, he was against the war and H. Clinton was for it. I guess we should support
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:00 PM
Jun 2014

H. Clinton.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
98. I could care less who you guys support. I'm just stating the fact that DK was a DU phenom.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:02 PM
Jun 2014

In the real world? Not so much.

 

Bette R. Daize

(43 posts)
6. Spot On
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:19 AM
Jun 2014

If I had put my own thoughts about this flare up in Iraq on paper, it would read quite the same if not so eloquently stated. I suspect if we finally "go there" with those characters associated with the lies and start to demand accountability for their heinous crimes, I predict this flare up would fizzle out mighty fast. Just a little hunch I have.

malaise

(267,791 posts)
7. That simple
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:24 AM
Jun 2014

Dennis Kucinich should be among the first persons invited to comment on the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. He was always consistent. George Galloway is another one.

Rec

Lenomsky

(340 posts)
13. Galloway is a rogue ..
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:00 AM
Jun 2014

a very likeable one I wish we had more MP's that spoke their minds rather than tow the party line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway

In a debate with the Leader of the Scottish National Party Alex Salmond, Galloway responded to one of Salmond's jibes against the Labour Party by declaring "I don't give a fuck what Tony Blair thinks".

SNIP

He called the Labour Government "Tony Blair's lie machine."

SNIP

When the issue of Galloway's meetings with Saddam Hussein is raised, including before the US Senate, Galloway has argued that he had met Saddam "exactly the same number of times as US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns." He continued "I met him to try to bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war".

malaise

(267,791 posts)
17. My favorite Galloway moments
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:11 AM
Jun 2014
&feature=kp

The end of the beginning - I turned out to be right



Hitchens destroyed!


Cameron destroyed

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
46. Yes, but "apparently" he is so bad for their "ratings"...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:28 AM
Jun 2014

You've got to know how the CAPITALIST media "works"

They think Dennis doesn't "sell" and he would put their "target$" to sleep... like ZZZZZZZ(ap) in about 4 minutes...

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
14. Until there are War Crime Trials, there will be no resolution
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:08 AM
Jun 2014

and no consensus. The lack of punishment for the perpetrators enables them to continue to pollute the dialog with their lies and evasions.

Bring back the rule of law, and extend it to following the UN resolutions and treaties the US is signatory to.

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
16. Kucinich's truth reveals the lie in all of us
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:10 AM
Jun 2014

When an honest man passed through a room full of liars, he revealed the crowd for what they were. Because every witnessing eye has become inured to the lie, all they noticed was how odd that little truthful man appeared. If history reveals the truth a second time, and we are not moved to act, we are complicit in the lie...because a lie requires a liar and someone game to be deceived.

democrank

(11,052 posts)
18. "Calculated deception" indeed.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:21 AM
Jun 2014

Mainstream media and cowardly politicians should be hammered over their enabling of the Iraq invasion. Why would any thinking American want to hear from invasion specialists like Paul Bremmer, Bill Crystal and John McCain....to name a few?

How Junior Bush can sit at home and paint dog pictures is beyond me. He should be doing daily volunteer work at Walter Reed.

90-percent

(6,828 posts)
20. " Millions of people who marched in America in protest of the war"
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:36 AM
Jun 2014

I recall worldwide protests that were the largest such anti-war protest numbers in the history of the universe. I think Europeans in particular were even more horrified and more active than Americans, relatively speaking.

-90% Jimmy

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
22. Word.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:47 AM
Jun 2014

Thank you, Ichingcarpenter. Dennis Kucinich wrote the truth and he speaks the truth. In gangster times, that makes him and those who support him dangerous.



jaxind

(1,074 posts)
23. Disappointed
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:50 AM
Jun 2014

I'm so disappointed in Obama for not prosecuting those war criminals. If Obama even walks funny, they hurl everything at him. Have they not just tried to spearhead him for every single move he makes? And, President Obama had the biggest opportunity to bring these guys down and he blew it! They make mountains out of molehills on Obama, and Obama makes molehills out of mountains on them!

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
28. If Obama
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:03 AM
Jun 2014

had TRIED to prosecute these war criminals, the prosecution would still be going on with the most likely outcome being what they are now, free men and women. Not to mention the RW spin that would have caused more racial and RW ideological uproar than that exhibited by the bundy type militias, 'american springers' et al. There would have been more mass shootings as the couch potato, gun fondling, fox news slime got off their couches to "take their country back from the brown tyrant". America is way too ideologically skewed and racist to have had that type of action be a success. Just my take.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
87. They're already causing plenty of "racial uproar", whatever that is
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jun 2014

Bullies do not back down when you coddle them. Leaving criminals and traitors alone because there might be more mass shootings is probably the most pathetic excuse I've seen for the president's cowardice since he took office. Everyone who voted for him in 2008 believed he was going to do something about the people who cooked up and executed Bush's war. That was just one more letdown from Campaign Obama.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
78. President Obama will be fortunate if those war criminals don't prosecute him.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:01 PM
Jun 2014

Obviously they still wield a tremendous amount of power and influence. Look how the media fawns over them and asks their opinion.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
88. Yep. that's what happens when you try to make friends with rabid animals.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:33 PM
Jun 2014

Hopefully the next Dem president will not be quite so weak.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
118. What you mean is corporate power and MIC influence
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:50 PM
Jun 2014

and the media is their spoke person spewing lies 24/7.

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
113. Very well stated and very true:
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:39 PM
Jun 2014

"They make mountains out of molehills on Obama, and Obama makes molehills out of mountains on them!"

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
24. And while we're at it, when horrified by the number of Iraqis executed by Isis, try to
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:52 AM
Jun 2014

remember the number the US killed in Iraq. Fucking Shock and Awe, remember?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
36. yeah, that shock and awe :( and then on ebay the next many years...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:57 AM
Jun 2014

looted palace tiles so ancient, from the times of Persia.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
26. +1000
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:55 AM
Jun 2014

over 100,000 dead Iraqis, no telling how many with life altering wounds, over 4500 american soldiers killed because of a lie, over 30,000 wounded, TRILLIONS in treasure poured down this rabbit hole of deception and it ain't over yet. Mistake my ass. All those deaths a mistake???!!!! PNAC cabalist ideology applied in real time. Results? Disaster. No one speaks of PNAC, why not?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
37. I wish we could get back that billion on pallets of cash! Bush sent there from Cheneys bank.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:00 AM
Jun 2014

Its not much but America could probably build a US hospital or two. Or fund a couple Doctors through college.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
27. K&R Go Kooch!
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:56 AM
Jun 2014

It's a shame that he is not president.
He would have been the best president for WE THE PEOPLE.
Damn, them the corporations, who made obscene profits on ALL wars.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
29. a good article! But at this point, IMO..its Assad & letting him get away with all his bs that has sp
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:10 AM
Jun 2014

that has spawned most of this wave into the 'bush'-propped-up countries. I bet they have millions of citizens who they can pay and uniform as 'religious- looters/pillagers' and throw them into Iraq as cannon fodder.

Whoever sells military supplies to Assad while he lives in luxury & safety in Geneva mansions, should be in an international jail for life. He should NEVER have been pandered to.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
137. The US and its allies have been trying to overthrow Assad.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 12:31 PM
Jun 2014

And the resulting destabilization of Syria helped turn ISIS into the multinational monster it is.

And Assad lives in Damascus, not Geneva.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
138. I know. He got his huge family/close friends out of Syria and went to Geneva.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 01:02 PM
Jun 2014

Hes not living anywhere these days or his family where they could easily become targets. They must have many mansions in Damascus and Syria, probably a lot of other countries too. private jets can go anywhere.

When one is extremely wealthy, Geneva, Switzerland is the safest place to continue as Ruler and conduct any business. That country welcomes anyone with the cash. "The old always neutral Swiss"

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
57. I'm not going to praise a man I have little respect for.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jun 2014

But I'm also not going to say he is wrong when he is right.

MynameisBlarney

(2,979 posts)
39. I remember...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:05 AM
Jun 2014

Being asked why I hated America so much for being so vocal against the invasion of Iraq.
I remember being told to leave America since I didn't support the troops.
I remember being told I was a terrorist sympathizer because I suggested that this invasion was illegal.
I remember watching the very people calling me those names become absolutely unreasonable, rabidly pro-war and vehemently and vocally anti-Democratic as the years progressed.

These people are now the teabaggers, sovereign citizens, and the militia types that are protecting a certain cattle rancher. They are all coalescing into one group, more or less, and they are now far more dangerous and a much bigger threat to America than Al Qaeda.


chervilant

(8,267 posts)
56. I remember...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:12 AM
Jun 2014

Being treated in much the same way as you've described herein above.

During the March on Washington to protest the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation, being interviewed by an absurdly young and energetic CNN reporter, whose production crew cut everything I said except our discussion about keeping warm on that bitterly cold day.

Watching the M$M cameras positioned on the sparse edges of our ginormous crowd, intent upon misrepresenting the vast numbers who showed up to protest.

Sighing in resignation when Pelosi and Obama both gave the Bush administration's war criminals a nod and a wink when they said we should "look forward."

...

The war crimes of those despicable chicken hawks will remain a festering wound on this nation's soul until and unless we hold them accountable.

MynameisBlarney

(2,979 posts)
62. Yup.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:33 AM
Jun 2014

If we don't hold them accountable, then the US will never be viewed as anything other than a rogue state.
Which is basically what we've become.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
70. We have become the nation of the very few,
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:15 PM
Jun 2014

less than 300 sociopathic hedonists, at the expense of the very, very many--more than 316,000,000 poor souls.

rock

(13,218 posts)
40. I believe Kucinich is correct
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:06 AM
Jun 2014

Calling the Iraq war a 'mistake' is itself a mistake. It would be like calling any of the numerous school shootings that we've had recently were 'mistakes'. It would be like calling the selection of W as president a 'mistake'. There were many people purposely acting to subvert Democracy for that one.

polynomial

(750 posts)
41. America’s news media is a key player
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:26 AM
Jun 2014

America’s news media is a key player in what we all should call the too big to fail crime syndicate of the current American political era.

In the present time the challenge has been shallow to openly investigate the lie of the millennium that is the war in Iraq.

The perpetrators at the top of the list are Bush and Cheney with family business ties to the very important Arab family that supports the jihadist terrorist group, the very royal and oil rich Bin Laden family.

It is a fact the Bush family has been business partners with Bin Laden royal Arabs for decades.

From my view that alone should have been enough scandal preventing Bush to steal a second term, or even prevent Bush from a first term.

Kucinich is saying what appears to be obnoxiously obvious that the mainstream media has been and is key player in the too big to fail plot launched by the Bush/ Cheney GOP crime syndicate.

As the rhetoric of war changed by George Bush via the media from weapons of mass destruction to making Iraq a free Democracy is wildly wrong. That very idea made over and over by our American media.

The Constitution of Iraq is based on the Quran that would be the same as saying the American Constitution being based on the Bible.

Which any grade school child knows America has separation of church and state. America would likely go to civil war if we lost the first amendment. Iraq after thousands of years in a Quran run government goes into chaos. Very obvious to me it should have never happened.

Openly displayed citizens had voted shown by the Iraqi electorate with purple fingers pointed at American news cameras seemed odd and weird to me, likely felt the same way to Iraq people.

Worse at the same time the GOP America was doing everything to suppress the vote in the United States.

Yes, ground zero is Bush/ Cheney treason and it should be handed over to the International Community. Allegations should be made and indictments should be made with all secret documents opened to be judged for crimes committed.

This action by Bush and Cheney shows the world about America as leading with lies and deception which will never build a faithful God blessing society, placing America in what the Arab Bin Laden terrorist royal family wanted, via Osama Bin Laden, chaos, and decadence to destroy the American Constitution in freedom of religion.



Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
42. Some quotes from Dennis
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:28 AM
Jun 2014

“Journalist:
Congressman Kucinich, I believe you're the only one here who voted against the PATRIOT act right away after 9/11. Why is that?

His Reply:
Because I read it.”



“Everyone should have health insurance? I say everyone should have health care. I'm not selling insurance.”
― Dennis Kucinich





“Wake up America!
The insurance companies took over health care!
Wake up America!
The pharmaceutical companies took over drug pricing!
Wake up America!
The speculators took over Wall Street!
Wake up America!
They want your Social Security!
Wake up America!
Multinational corporations took over our trade policies!
Wake up America!
We went into Iraq for oil!
WAKE UP AMERICA!”
― Dennis Kucinich




“Lies are weapons of mass destruction.”
― Dennis Kucinich




“The President of the United States is called upon to make the right decision at the right time and you've seen people who voted for the Iraq war and voted to fund the war, now they have a different position.
People who voted for the PATRIOT act, now they have different position.
People who voted for China trade, now they have a different position.
People who voted for Yucca Mountain, now they have a different position.
Just imagine what it would be like to have a President who's right the first time.”
― Dennis Kucinich




I think it's inconsistent to tell the American people that you oppose the war and, yet, you continue to vote to fund the war. Because every time you vote to fund the war, you're reauthorizing the war all over again.
Dennis Kucinich

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
79. Dennis was my first choice for president.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:10 PM
Jun 2014

Unfortunately, because I live in Ohio, I didn't have the opportunity to vote for Dennis in the primary.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
155. Same for me, on both counts...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:46 AM
Jun 2014

...although in my case it was the Nevada caucuses where he was eliminated early on.

Too bad. He was by far my preferred candidate.

mokawanis

(4,434 posts)
108. it's been a long time since I've read those quotes
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:52 PM
Jun 2014

and I'm reminded all over again why I supported his campaign.

MuseRider

(34,057 posts)
44. Thank you.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:39 AM
Jun 2014

He is right, he was always right.

Thanks for the quotes as well. I miss hearing from him or about him.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
45. To put it plainly, I believe that the war was the result of a conspiracy within the highest
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:58 AM
Jun 2014

levels of our Government. Evidence was fabricated to convince the American People to accept the invasion.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
83. There is no question about it.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:13 PM
Jun 2014

It was the single greatest act of treason in the history of the nation. The only other acts of treason comparable would be the theft of a presidential election in 2,000 and Iran-Contra.

Hmmm, what do those things have in common?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
48. meh, they still have wiggle room
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

There's no way to prove they did not honestly believe there were WMD there. I don't think there is a risk of repeating the same thing again. After all these years, we did learn. We know Bushco wanted to attack that country and was looking for an excuse. The way to avoid this in the future is never let these Republicans into the WH again.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
86. I disagree... I think it could be proven they knew.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jun 2014

You could start with after the fact, there were no WMD's. Then you could move on to intelligence briefings that weren't redacted or "cherry picked" to make the worst case scenario plausible. Then you can stir in the fact that Saddam offered to surrender control of Iraq 3 days before the invasion. You can ice the cake with Hans Blix. The U.N.weapons inspector who kept telling us he found nothing.

What exactly is their wiggle room? "In spite of all reports to the contrary, we still think we should start a freakin war over something we're pretty sure doesn't exist?" Hardly a defense.

And as far as your idea to never elect another Republican well, great idea but you are usually a "reality" based person, you know that that is just not an option. Sometimes they are going to win. Also, while the war was a Republican plan, a Republican idea, and a Republican war, the Democrats just sat there and gave them permission, and then turned their heads when it was all over.


treestar

(82,383 posts)
105. Proving all that is the problem
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:24 PM
Jun 2014

In a court of law, it can be hard to prove your own name. If they want to make it hard, they can. In fact, where is Eddie Snowden when we need him? Did he get the documents that would prove it? It's hard to prove someone's intent, especially when they are crafty and know better than to let it be documented.

riqster

(13,986 posts)
50. That is why I have supported Kooch for many a year.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:40 AM
Jun 2014

Even when I disagree with him, he is always speaking truth to power.

 

gussmith

(280 posts)
55. We Are Docile
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

when we allow the truth about our involvement in Iraq to NOT be investigated! We allow Issa to maniacally continue with congressional committees looking into less, yes less, consequential subjects but leave the deception of Iraq untouched. As a result we have the same bellicose con men in the news pushing to continue the travesty they wrought. Yes, we are docile.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
61. Mistake? What we are seeing right now is "Mission Accomplished".
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:26 AM
Jun 2014

Their goal was to completely destabilize the region.

 

toby jo

(1,269 posts)
65. They gerrymandered this man out of office last year.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:57 AM
Jun 2014

Obama was fond of saying that he would have voted against the resolution to go to war, unlike Hilary. I figured it for a lie at the time. Obama is no Kucinich. He is a politician, Kucinich is a hard enough man to be honest.

 

antiGOPin294

(53 posts)
67. Kucinich is bang on about this. Calling the Iraq War a "mistake" is a grave understatement.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:52 PM
Jun 2014

I wish he would run in 2016. I would vote for him over pretty much every candidate that would be running.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
71. I really wish Dennis would enter the Democratic presidential primary contest. I'd work
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:21 PM
Jun 2014

my ass off 7 days a week to get him nominated.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
75. K&R! This post has hundreds of recommendations!
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:51 PM
Jun 2014

Way to go, Dennis! Even some of your DU detractors will like this.

But, Dennis, do not expect President Obama to tell us the truth about Iraq and the false scenario that allowed us to go to war. That ain't happening. The Neo-Con chickenhawks might accuse the President of not being a team player.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
82. Why would Obama and the press do......
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:10 PM
Jun 2014

...what they've been assiduously avoiding and making certain they would never have to do, do so now Dennis?

If we've been lied to (it would simpler to say when we haven't been lied to, but I digress), then those who cover-up THE LIE, and continue to give life and breath to THE LIE, and assure that justice will never be served because of THE LIE, become themselves just as guilty as those who committed these atrocious acts -- by extension.


- Which is exactly why they'll never admit any such thing.


But K&R and damned way.......



We're not so good at acknowledging reality on our planet.......


Democrats_win

(6,539 posts)
84. Green Day's American Idiot returns.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:22 PM
Jun 2014

DK calls it calculated deception but the American idiots followed bush rather than the protestors. The idiots would not demand or tolerate war trials to punish the bush criminals. Just as people are starting to get jobs after the bush flash depression, the bush easter egg explodes and gives us higher gas prices. It's sad that the big-mouth idiots continue to ruin this country. They should STFU and apologize for voting for bush. Of course, it's rather hard given that their heads are stull up their a...

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
92. There was no appetite for one administration prosecuting another, just as there was no appetite for
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:40 PM
Jun 2014

a DK presidency. If prosecution or impeachment were in order, why did Nancy Pelosi dismiss them?

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
101. Yes I "argree" (sp.)? And I also agree that while DK is popular "UNDERGROUND", up on the surface...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:04 PM
Jun 2014

he's seen as a flake, much like Michelle Bachmann.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
119. The time to STOP this atrocity was before it got started.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:51 PM
Jun 2014

Bush needed the help of a few Democrats to Get His WAR On,
and he found them.
He couldn't have gone to WAR without their help,
and THAT is why there were no prosecutions.

Hillary...are you listening?

 

supercats

(429 posts)
125. I Agree 100% With Dennis Kucinich!!!
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 02:07 AM
Jun 2014

Now let's find a way to force Obama to tell this truth, because the journalists and media commentators can't/won't do anything because the people who own the media profit from war.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
134. ''Money trumps peace.'' -- George W Bush, Feb. 14, 2007, White House press conference
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 12:06 PM
Jun 2014

Then, he laughs and not a single of the callow, cowed press corpse saw fit to ask a follow-up.



At the time, I remember Cindy Sheehan tried to bring it to our nation's attention.

As for where he got his thinking, his father, George Herbert Walker Bush, who told the FBI he was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963, but reported he had heard someone threaten JFK after the assassination.

It's been "Money trumps peace" ever since. What a coincidence.

KentuckyWoman

(6,666 posts)
153. With great respect, I think Mr. Kucinich is wrong.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 01:50 AM
Jun 2014

I think it's far worse than lying us into war. I believe Iraq now is a glowing success. THIS is what they wanted to accomplish with their lies. What has happened and will continue to happen in Iraq is exactly what the Neocons and cartel leaders decided on way back before Reagan.

I do think Dennis understands that.... and I know saying so out loud invites people to wonder how many aluminum foil hats are hiding in your closet. Still I wish he'd put it out there.

tblue37

(64,979 posts)
154. Not a mistake--an illegal invasion is a *war crime*.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:02 AM
Jun 2014

Meanwhile, deliberately lying the country into war is a different kind of crime, and war profiteering is yet another kind of crime. I'm pretty sure that in the old days, war profiteers were executed.

Oh, and don't forget the huge amount of money that simply disappeared into the ether--it was obviously embezzled.

The warmongers committed several different types of crimes--all of them quite serious.

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