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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObama is damned if he does; damned if he doesn't.
The President has decided to sent a limited number of troops to Iraq to protect our embassy there and to assist in helping people leave Iraq who don't actually need to be there. For that, he is damned by many, who see this as a re-engagement in Iraq.
In another incident, from the past, troops were not sent to Benghazi to protect the diplomatic mission there. Disregarding the fact that there was not time to do so, he is damned by others for the four lives that were lost there.
Being President of the United States is a tough job, indeed. There is no decision you can make that will not be damned by one group or another. In the current situation, we have a duty to protect our embassy personnel and we have time to make that happen. So, the President has decided to send some people there to do just that. Perhaps we should rethink our micromanagement of international affairs from the comfort of our keyboards in situations like this.
What do you think?
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)....and you are right, he cannot win either way...
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)our embassy there. That's what I think.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Obama cares about doing what's right here, not in pleasing anybody for any political purpose. He's protecting the American embassy, as well he should, but he is not engaging in what is 100% and internal Iraq affair.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...and here the President is being proactive about safeguarding 5000 and he STILL gets shit thrown at him...
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)There's always someone flinging poo at President Obama. I guess it comes with the job.
Rex
(65,616 posts)but howl at the moon over 4 deaths that were unavoidable...hence why wingnuts are cray cray and not to be trusted.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)embassy in Iraq have anything to do with any such things. I also doubt that you have any real knowledge of it, either. My own opinion is that we should simply pull every last American out of Iraq and close the door behind us. I also believe that we should never have gone to any country in that region with armed troops or meddled with the affairs in any country in the Middle East. The fact is that we did, however.
My beliefs, however, have nothing to do with the need to protect embassy personnel and assist them in evacuating. That is a responsibility we have and one that President Obama is very aware of.
ETA: In reading the two articles at your links, one of them from 2011, I don't see where they support your claims. Perhaps you could point out the passages from them that you believe support your assertions.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)The logistics of that aren't something for which I have any expertise at all. Evacuating embassies during an active conflict can't be an easy thing to do. So, we'll probably have to wait to find out. I'm sure it will depend on many factors, but I do not know what those factors might be.
If you do, maybe you can lay out the process for us.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Less than 300 people needed to be evacuated. Reports have about 5000 in Baghdad. It could be quite an operation. We'll see.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)for not sending troops to Benghazi.
That would be the wrong lesson for him to take away from the Libyan incident. It sounds like something George Bush would do, not what we expect from this president.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)The State Department is part of the Executive branch of government. The safety of State Department employees and contractors is the President's responsibility. President Obama appears to take such responsibilities seriously. It is currently a very dangerous situation in Baghdad. I cannot imagine any way he could avoid sending armed forces to protect those people.
I think it was an easy decision for him. I hope the force is adequate for the job and that all remain safe and those who need to evacuate are evacuated. Benghazi was a very different situation.
Cha
(295,899 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)people associated with our embassy there. That's his responsibility, and he's acting on that responsibility.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)He should just go on tv and make his case rather than let fox and friends make it for him and damn him either way.
malthaussen
(17,065 posts)I made the point elsewhere that if Mr Obama thinks this will forestall criticism, he's whistling in the dark. But as I say, that's my petty political interpretation.
It could be seen as provocation, but I think the other guys are gonna do what they want to do no matter what we do. It was observed elsewhere that 275 Marines will "make them think long and hard" before they do anything. Maybe so. It certainly will have to be factored into any moves contemplated -- if any were contemplated. It should render moot any plans there might have been for a small unit attack.
Ultimately, better to have them there than not, although that doesn't mean things can't and won't go wrong. The real difficulty, I think, Mineral Man, is that too many people -- including, alas, those with power and influence, think that safety can be "ensured" in a case like this. Or affect that they do, anyway, which gives them latitude to criticize whatever is done/not done. You know, our whole Terrorist Industrial Complex is rooted in selling this idea that we can be "safe" from terrorism, that if we just throw enough money at the problem and surrender most of our liberties, we can keep the bad men from blowing us up. It's painful that so many people seem to want to buy what's being sold.
-- Mal
morningfog
(18,115 posts)The conditions in Iraq have been known for a very long time. That this sectarian war has reached a tipping point is not a surprise. The city-embassy could have been closed, it also could have been reduced in population and could have been evacuated long ago.
He owns this "emergency." The 275 troops going back are his decision and coupled with military action that will follow.
Anytime someone talks about the comfort from their keyboards, I know they are suspending their critical thought process.
malaise
(267,801 posts)LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)Only this time it'll be coming from the far left.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)DUers can control their DU experience. That's the genius of this website.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)If I want to ignore something or someone, I just don't bother to read that. On DU, you can always expect to see almost anything. That's what makes it all interesting, I think. Best of all, you can post replies to anything you like. What a deal! Thanks, Skinner!
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)a pass on this if the troops stay within the mission of protecting personnel as the leave.
But if the next step is air strikes in league with the so-called axis-of-evil Iran, or further escalation, well, then, I guess Obama is vindicating Bush on the whole war... torture, kit, and kaboodle!
If he bombs it, he owns it. It will put our party back 10 years. We will get killed in 2014.
The end result of any escalation is simply more blood and treasure lost (WITH NO ONE SCREAMING ABOUT THE DEFICIT OR WHO WILL PAY FOR IT), and then 10 or 20, 0r 50 years from now, we will withdraw under the same conditions.
The fact that our decisions from our keyboards are more cogent than those being made in Washington is simply a fact, born out by history. End the war for oil. Prosecute the torturers. Expand renewables, it's a no brainer.
Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #13)
Rex This message was self-deleted by its author.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I think you need to make up something better than that. What a ridiculous notion, we reply to each other on one of millions of forums on the WWW...it is beyond silly to think we make any difference by our opinions here. I would say totally ridiculous.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Our keyboard antics are ineffective in actually accomplishing anything much. That takes actual people on the actual scene actually doing something. I was being sarcastic, which I suspect you already knew.
Rex
(65,616 posts)My apologies then.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)at all about the effect of my writings. They have none, in reality, nor do the writings of any other DUer. DU is a place to air our opinions, only, and they don't have any particular weight outside of DU. Posting on DU is not activism, nor does it influence the operations of government. Anyone who believes otherwise is fooling him or herself.
My activism in the 21st Century is in electoral work within my own legislative districts, state and federal. Along with being very active in Minnesota's caucus and convention system, I engage in a wide variety of GOTV efforts, mostly within my own precinct in my current city. That has positive effects that can actually be observed with every election. My state Senate district incumbent is in office, in part, due to my work at the district convention and in campaign efforts for both the primary and general election in 2012. Of that, I'm certain, since he was a most unlikely candidate at the 2012 caucuses and district convention, which failed to endorse anyone for that office. That caused the incumbent state Senator to withdraw his candidacy, and Mr. Foung Hawj (pronounced Fong Her) campaigned hard in the primary election and defeated a strong opponent and was then elected in the general election. He's now doing a very good job, and is very likely to continue to be elected down the road.
Individual activism has its greatest impact in legislative and local elections, where it can alter the course of events. I've been engaged in such activism since the 1960s, along with other activism at earlier stages of my life. Now, at age 68, I no longer participate in broader activism, but remain very active in election activism at the local level.
DU is interesting. I like to write, and I like politics, so it's a great outlet for me. But, I have no illusions. It is just one of many political forums on the Internet. It has nothing to do with the outcome of national elections. Nothing. We ramble on here and second guess lots of major political topics, but it pretty much ends right here.
However, if every active DUer were equally active in their own districts, it could make a big difference. I remain hopeful that will be the case.
GOTV 2014 and Beyond! That's activism that works.
lumpy
(13,704 posts)We need writers who can plow through speculative garbage and come forth with something closer to the truth.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Thanks.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I try my best, but at times sarcasm goes completely over my head.
We will CRUSH the GOP later on this year, they are weak and desperate to play these stupid games against Hillary so soon...and with Cantor out of office it changes the dynamics of the elections in November.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)I'll be working hard on that.
a kennedy
(29,462 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)he'll be a well-beloved past President, and that he'll be active as a public figure. I can see him at some point sitting on the SCOTUS bench if we keep electing Democratic Presidents. And we should do that for a long time to come. I truly believe that Barack Obama's legacy is going to be a very good one, and that it will improve over the years.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Cha
(295,899 posts)PragmaticLiberal
(904 posts)MineralMan
(146,192 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Any right wingers screaming about Benghazi can kindly STFU about the embassy in Iraq.
former9thward
(31,802 posts)That being that troops are needed to protect the embassy. Baghdad International is open and not under threat. If the embassy is endangered why not evacuate the embassy now? 5000 people can be moved out very quickly so why not do it? Why wait until the situation deteriorates? This is not Saigon, May, 1975 unless people want to create that situation.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)I have no detailed intelligence on the situation, and neither do you. I know who does, though. I think I'll give those folks the edge over you. Really.
former9thward
(31,802 posts)There are reporters in Baghdad. Are they suppressing what is going on there? This is a link to the airport. http://www.baghdad-airport.com/Departures.cfm
Situation normal. Are they faking it?
IronLionZion
(45,256 posts)GOTV!
Yes, I agree that any leadership decision will get disagreement from someone, always. First rule of leadership is its always your fault. I trust Obama and most Democrats to do the right thing on matters like this.