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cali

(114,904 posts)
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:25 PM Jun 2014

On Being Called a "Girly-girl"

Last edited Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:16 PM - Edit history (1)

A few weeks ago, my son took me to see Ray LaMontagne perform. It was an awfully nice thing of him to do and we had a good time. In the car, on the long drive home, we were talking about this woman he's been involved with. Apropos of I'm not sure what, he said: "Well, you don't really understand her. She's not a girly-girl like you.

My initial reaction to his comment was umbrage and knee jerk denial.

A few days later I was at home trying on a funky vintage dress with new to me used shoes I'd just bought for a happy song from someone on Ebay and I started laughing- at myself. And then I started thinking about why his remark had offended me.

When you hear the term girly-girl, I think it's safe to say that you don't think "tough, smart, capable woman". More likely you think pink frills, manicures and frivolous.

I have never had a manicure. I loath frills- on cushions or clothes, and though I can certainly be frivolous, I consider myself fairly intelligent. I can argue politics as well as anyone. I love hardware stores almost as much as vintage clothes and rearranging stuff in my home. I read voraciously- and not romance novels. I'm athletic and physically pretty damn strong.

My son knows all this so I don't think he meant to imply that I'm not smart or strong.

If he meant to say "you're interested in things that are considered feminine pursuits, he's right. I love playing with clothes, for example- though my fingernails are (at least in spring and summer) rimmed with stubborn garden dirt and I think manicures for me would be a complete bust.

So on rethinking it, I'll own the girly-girl label. But only if I get to define what it means.


Cross-posted in the Writing Forum


48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On Being Called a "Girly-girl" (Original Post) cali Jun 2014 OP
Terms that reinforce gender norms are harmful. redqueen Jun 2014 #1
I disagree. I think carrying it too far is harmful. I'm a feminist cali Jun 2014 #5
I also assume you're a grown woman rather than a child. PeaceNikki Jun 2014 #7
I am. Personally I hate it when someone refers to their husband as "hubby" cali Jun 2014 #10
Why the hell did you post this if you are going to get shitty when others post THEIR opinions? PeaceNikki Jun 2014 #11
I was making a point, not getting shitty or shirty or whatever cali Jun 2014 #16
Some women are Angry Girls. lumpy Jun 2014 #43
I'm not talking about "image". I'm talking about kids feeling like something is wrong with them redqueen Jun 2014 #20
you are never going to entirely eradicate kids feeling like something is wrong with cali Jun 2014 #25
Your response to me was definitely aggro. redqueen Jun 2014 #29
While we are at it, can we work on "tomboy" ? karadax Jun 2014 #2
I think all of these labels need to go. alarimer Jun 2014 #4
I am interested in the outdoors, and historiography and cali Jun 2014 #8
Sorry but you are not C'Mell intaglio Jun 2014 #3
Sorry, I didn't even bother to read that. boring. cali Jun 2014 #6
You either like Cordwainer Smith ... intaglio Jun 2014 #14
The Ballad Of Lost C'mell by Cordwainer Smith... MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #40
When I saw the thread title I immediately thought of C'Mell. Jim Lane Jun 2014 #45
Isn't "girly-girl" a 'Sex And The City' coinage? closeupready Jun 2014 #9
I write. I sometimes post what I write about on DU. cali Jun 2014 #12
I enjoy reading your writings, even if I disagree a lot. closeupready Jun 2014 #13
thank you. I am enamoured with the written word- and I don't always cali Jun 2014 #18
it far pre-dates sex and the city. cali Jun 2014 #15
musical the "Music Man" has the phrase. Democrats_win Jun 2014 #17
Ah, ok - thanks. closeupready Jun 2014 #24
It appears in the Grammy-winning rap anthem "Parents Just Don't Understand" Orrex Jun 2014 #31
You'll enjoy this, then, I'm sure: MineralMan Jun 2014 #19
sorry, couldn't make it through that. boring. cali Jun 2014 #21
I miss nothing, actually, in your posts. MineralMan Jun 2014 #22
I see what you did there Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #23
See, I knew you would. MineralMan Jun 2014 #27
oh, I think you miss the boat almost entirely when it comes to my writing cali Jun 2014 #26
Writing. It's all words, cali. MineralMan Jun 2014 #28
Maybe you are more of a Tomboy. lumpy Jun 2014 #41
I'm a "girly-girl" and I freely admit it Seeking Serenity Jun 2014 #30
Seems Like A Healthy Attitude ProfessorGAC Jun 2014 #34
I used to LOVE dressing to the hilt! Seeking Serenity Jun 2014 #35
Me too, that's the way I feel too! nt Raine Jun 2014 #37
Mon amie! Seeking Serenity Jun 2014 #38
I never considered myself "girly-girl" until I began reading all the feminist views on DU. pacalo Jun 2014 #44
I used to get called that in middle school. hunter Jun 2014 #32
Wow, great history! Jamastiene Jun 2014 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2014 #33
That's kinda the problem with labels. TygrBright Jun 2014 #36
Agreed. I'd rather see labels like girly-girl or tomboy fade from use than to try to convince a seaglass Jun 2014 #48
I think both feminine women and Tom-boy type women are both interesting and quinnox Jun 2014 #39
I am both. A lot of women are. I think Girly Girls woudn't want to go camping and climb a mountain. lumpy Jun 2014 #42
Wow - we agree on most of this one malaise Jun 2014 #47

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
1. Terms that reinforce gender norms are harmful.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:30 PM
Jun 2014

Kids should know they're free to wear what they like, style their hair how they like, and participate in playtime activities they like, without the idea that these things are either 'girl' things or 'boy' things.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
5. I disagree. I think carrying it too far is harmful. I'm a feminist
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:12 PM
Jun 2014

and have been for a long time. So gay folks shouldn't use the word queer because that has had negative associations and reinforces an "image".

I'm a feminist. I'm an individual. And no fucking one controls my use of language but me. That doesn't preclude avoiding words that offend a given group of people. I choose not to do that, but frankly, I'll define myself as I wish.

Period.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
7. I also assume you're a grown woman rather than a child.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:14 PM
Jun 2014

I hate that it's normal to call grown women 'girls'.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
10. I am. Personally I hate it when someone refers to their husband as "hubby"
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:19 PM
Jun 2014

so what? and the term "girly-girl" isn't quite the same as being called a girl.

Again, I'll decide what my lexicon is and I damn well won't let society or anyone do it for me.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
11. Why the hell did you post this if you are going to get shitty when others post THEIR opinions?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:20 PM
Jun 2014

Seriously, WTF is your problem?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
16. I was making a point, not getting shitty or shirty or whatever
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:25 PM
Jun 2014

DU's political correctness around language is interesting to me. And why the hell wouldn't I defend the pov I expressed in the OP?????

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
20. I'm not talking about "image". I'm talking about kids feeling like something is wrong with them
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:28 PM
Jun 2014

if they like something that's "girly" or "macho" or whatever. They're stupid, meaningless terms and they cause actual harm.

But hey, whatever floats your boat. No need to get all aggro about it.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
25. you are never going to entirely eradicate kids feeling like something is wrong with
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:44 PM
Jun 2014

them. and when purging language I think it behooves us to proceed (most of the time) carefully.

And sorry, I'm not "aggro" about it (don't like that word) I just don't like zealotry.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
29. Your response to me was definitely aggro.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:02 PM
Jun 2014

And it's not zealotry, it's progress.

Gender norms are bullshit. And just like those who said 'oh you'll never stop bullying', those who now claim that we'll never get rid of gender conditioning will see that their complacence isn't shared by all. Thankfully.

karadax

(284 posts)
2. While we are at it, can we work on "tomboy" ?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:41 PM
Jun 2014

My daughter that's nearly 5 gets this label a lot. All she does is enjoy the outdoors, play with tadpoles and holds her own with the active boys. She wears dresses and likes nail polish.

If girly girl is too much in one direction while a tomboy is too far in the other, what's supposed to be in the middle ? Has that been defined ?

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
4. I think all of these labels need to go.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:12 PM
Jun 2014

The policing of gender norms is what is harmful, not what actually interests someone.

I was (still am) a tomboy. I played with cars when I was a kid (my parents, fortunately, did not try to force me to do anything else). Hate dressing up (so I work in a field in which shorts and t-shirts are everyday attire), work outdoors, get messy, etc. I have always resented the implication that I was supposed to be different than I am. I have been accused being a lesbian because of how I dress or what I do (which is offensive mainly because of the stereotype).

I love it when kids are interested in the outdoors. I still have a childlike interest in bugs, tadpoles, snakes, fish, birds, all of nature really. May your daughter never lose that.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
8. I am interested in the outdoors, and historiography and
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:15 PM
Jun 2014

and building stuff and vintage clothes and and and. I can define myself as I wish. So can you. and examining what offends one and why is something I recommend heartily- and that's what the essay is about.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
14. You either like Cordwainer Smith ...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:23 PM
Jun 2014

Or go "Meh" or hate him. Let's just say that to those who like his work she is an icon.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
40. The Ballad Of Lost C'mell by Cordwainer Smith...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:11 PM
Jun 2014

"Rather loosely inspired by some of the magical and conspiratorial scenes of The Romance of Three Kingdoms," a 14th-century work by Lo Kuan-chung, according to Smith himself. C'mell herself was inspired by Cat Melanie, one of the felines in Smith's household. She and Lord Jestocost, of course, both figure later in the events of his novel Norstrilia ...
She got the which of the what-she-did,
Hid the bell with a blot, she did,
But she fell in love with a hominid.
Where is the which of the what-she-did?
—from The Ballad Of Lost C'mell
She was a girly girl and they were true men, the lords of creation, but she pitted her wits against them and she won. It had never happened before, and it is sure never to happen again, but she did win. She was not even of human extraction. She was cat-derived, though human in outward shape, which explains the C in front of her name. Her father's name was C'mackintosh and her name C'mell. She won her tricks against the lawful and assembled Lords of the Instrumentality.


 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
45. When I saw the thread title I immediately thought of C'Mell.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 05:12 AM
Jun 2014

But "girly-girl" won't be a job description for thousands of years yet, so I was guessing that wasn't what cali meant.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
9. Isn't "girly-girl" a 'Sex And The City' coinage?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:16 PM
Jun 2014

The term didn't exist prior to the late 90's.

Anyway, be who you are - manly girl, girly man, androgyne, who cares.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
12. I write. I sometimes post what I write about on DU.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:20 PM
Jun 2014

and if it resonates- in any way- that's interesting to me.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
13. I enjoy reading your writings, even if I disagree a lot.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:21 PM
Jun 2014
(Your enjoyment of the written word is obvious to me; unlike others here whose enjoyment of writing about themselves is what makes them tick.)
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
18. thank you. I am enamoured with the written word- and I don't always
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:27 PM
Jun 2014

write about me- could be an essay on an obscure French Historian or Art or.... who knows what will capture the interest of my magpie brain next?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
15. it far pre-dates sex and the city.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:24 PM
Jun 2014

I remember hearing it when I was a kid in the 1960s and according to etymology sites, it far predates that.

Orrex

(63,086 posts)
31. It appears in the Grammy-winning rap anthem "Parents Just Don't Understand"
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:11 PM
Jun 2014
Pay attention, here's the thick of the plot
I pulled up to the corner at the end of my block
That's when I saw this beautiful girlie girl walking
I picked up my car phone to perpetrate like I was talking

The world changed in 1988. Who could hear these words and not be transfigured?
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
21. sorry, couldn't make it through that. boring.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:32 PM
Jun 2014

and of course, as I stated, I don't like frills- and I don't like Doris Day coy- I was never a DD fan, or being caught in any rigid construct.

did you miss the part where I say I get to define the term?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
26. oh, I think you miss the boat almost entirely when it comes to my writing
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:45 PM
Jun 2014

and I differentiate between my "writing" posts and my political posting.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
28. Writing. It's all words, cali.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jun 2014

You're posting both in the same place, though, you see. DU is a political forum. As someone who makes his living by writing, I understand that words are words. You put some words together, and sometimes it makes sense. Sometimes, it doesn't. And sometimes, it's just nonsense. But, DU is DU. Whatever words you post here are posted in public and everyone has an opportunity to respond to them.

You might differentiate between your posts. That's fine. That, however, doesn't compel others to do so.

This thread is about the words, "girly girl." It's amazing how many references there are to that term. Lots of songs. Lots of writings, too. You added to that. I commented on your addition to the collection of "girly girl" references.

In another thread, you repeated some words someone else wrote about Hillary Clinton. I commented in that thread, too. I like DU. I read a lot of threads, especially in GD. You post; I reply. I post; you reply. Like the Hokey Pokey, that's what it's all about.

Seeking Serenity

(2,838 posts)
30. I'm a "girly-girl" and I freely admit it
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jun 2014

I don't see anything wrong with the term. I like "girly" things -- make-up; perfumes and scented candles and potpourri; pink is my all-time favorite color and a lot of my wardrobe is some variant of pink; I'm into clothes and all my clothes, even lounging about the house clothes, have to match; and I epitomize the stereotype of women and shoes. I love getting new shoes!

And yes, I do think there are some things that are "girly" and some things that are "boyish" (although I would never say that either sex should be excluded by any means from either just because they're the wrong sex).

And, I'm a Democrat. I'm a girly-girl Democrat. And there you have it.

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
34. Seems Like A Healthy Attitude
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:25 PM
Jun 2014

Anytime one defines one's self, it is likely healthy, unless it's completely delusional. (Manson, for example, thought he was a great man. That was his self-definition, but delusional)

My wife is kind of like you. She's never been a shoe nut, though. Even less so as we've gotten older. But, she did like dressing up a lot when we were younger. We were a "to the nines" couple for a really long time.

Seeking Serenity

(2,838 posts)
35. I used to LOVE dressing to the hilt!
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jun 2014

Don't get to do it much any more with children, although I hope we can more now that they're older (and if the $$ is available).

And DH in a tuxedo? (swoon)

pacalo

(24,721 posts)
44. I never considered myself "girly-girl" until I began reading all the feminist views on DU.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 12:38 AM
Jun 2014

I thought nothing of tiling my own kitchen, laundry room, & two bathrooms. My husband & I worked together laying out the wood floors in our living room & bedrooms. I can use woodworking tools as well as a man could.

At the same time, I love pretty clothes, I like my hair looking nice, & I like an understated amount of make-up when I go out.

I've had Democratic ideals since I was a young child & no one can take that away from me.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
32. I used to get called that in middle school.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:12 PM
Jun 2014

And I'm a guy.

"Queerbait" was the name that stuck, until I quit high school and my testicles woke up.

My family is a Wild West matriarchy, going way back, and it still is.

Any girly-girls among them is an act. I've one sister who was a cheerleader and aspiring Hollywood actress. She could play athletic ditsy beach blonde well. She has screen credits. She's now a firefighter-paramedic.

I have a large handful of nieces who can handle difficult horses ordinary men are scared of.

My mom is girly-girly and now an eccentric little old lady in ordinary life. But she has always been full-out berserker in rougher situations. She will take your guns. All the women in her family were like that. My great grandmas were all scary strong women, four for four.



This great grandpa was just a mining engineer. Great grandma would kill any bad man.


Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
46. Wow, great history!
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 07:23 AM
Jun 2014

Thanks for sharing. I'd love to read more about the women in your family. They sound like very strong, independent women. I like it when women don't attempt to fit any preconceived notions dictated by the human species and just do what needs to be done.

Response to cali (Original post)

TygrBright

(20,733 posts)
36. That's kinda the problem with labels.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:33 PM
Jun 2014

I'll own ANY label, if I'm allowed to define what it means, and everyone else understands that definition.

Alas that it doesn't work that way.

regretfully,
Bright

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
48. Agreed. I'd rather see labels like girly-girl or tomboy fade from use than to try to convince a
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 07:37 AM
Jun 2014

population that the labels have a new meaning.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
39. I think both feminine women and Tom-boy type women are both interesting and
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:59 PM
Jun 2014

nothing wrong with either of them.

lumpy

(13,704 posts)
42. I am both. A lot of women are. I think Girly Girls woudn't want to go camping and climb a mountain.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:25 PM
Jun 2014

Done it all. I would have just giggled like one if someone called me a Girly Girl.

malaise

(267,823 posts)
47. Wow - we agree on most of this one
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 07:29 AM
Jun 2014

and I love pedicures and manicures.

I am not a feminist but I am a strong female. I use gloves in the garden.
I love dressing up sometimes and I also like make up although I don't wear it often because it is very expensive.

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