Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 08:44 PM Jun 2014

WTF? Cutting Off Water to Citizens of Detroit?

Published on Wednesday, June 18, 2014 by Common Dreams
Groups Appeal to UN for 'Humanity' as Detroit Shuts Off Water to Thousands
'By denying water service to thousands, Detroit is violating the human right to water.'

- Sarah Lazare, staff writer

(Image: Wikimedia / CC)As thousands of people in Detroit go without water, and the city moves to cut off services to tens of thousands more, concerned organizations have taken the unusual step of appealing to the United Nations to intervene and protect the "human right to water."

“After decades of policies that put businesses and profits ahead of the public good, the city now has a major crisis on its hands, said Maude Barlow, founder of Blue Planet Project and board chair of Food & Water Watch, in a statement. “By denying water service to thousands, Detroit is violating the human right to water."

The Submission to the Special Rapporteur was released Wednesday by the Detroit People’s Water Board, the Blue Planet Project, the Michigan Welfare Rights Organization and Food & Water Watch.

It calls for the "state of Michigan and U.S. government to respect the human right to water and sanitation" and for shut-offs to be halted, services restored, and water to be made accessible and affordable.

The report comes on the heels of the Detroit's city council's Tuesday approval of an 8.7 percent increase in water rates, part of a long-standing trend that, according to Food & Water Watch, has seen prices increase 119 percent over the past decade.

This rate hike follows an announcement in March by the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department that it would start turning off water for accounts that are past due. According to a late May Director's Report from the DWSD, there were "44,273 shut-off notices sent to customers in April 2014" alone, resulting in "3,025 shut-offs for nonpayment, and additional collections of $400,000."


Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr, who was appointed to power by Michigan Governor Rick Snyder in March 2013, has aggressively pursued privatization and austerity measures across the city. "Nothing is off the chopping block, including water utilities, which are being considered for regionalization, sale, lease, and/or public private partnership and are currently subject to mediation by a federal district judge," reads the report.

"The Detroit People’s Water Board fears that authorities see people’s unpaid water bills as a 'bad debt' and want to sweeten the pot for a private investor by imposing even more of the costs of the system on those least able to bear them," the report continues.

struggling with high unemployment, a poverty rate near 40 percent, and a foreclosure crisis that has devastated and displaced people across the city, hitting Detroit's African American community especially hard.

"When delinquent corporate water lines are still running without collection of funds, it demonstrates a level of intentional disparity that devalues the lives of the people struggling financially," said Lila Cabbil, President Emeritus of the Rosa Parks Institute, which is part of the People’s Water Board. "Where is our compassion? Where is our humanity?"

_http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/06/18-7

____________________
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.

139 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
WTF? Cutting Off Water to Citizens of Detroit? (Original Post) KoKo Jun 2014 OP
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #1
This should never have been allowed to happen. ananda Jun 2014 #2
How the people of Detroit are being treated gollygee Jun 2014 #3
God, this is sooooooo third world. Is Detroit a pilot city for the rest of America? valerief Jun 2014 #4
Unfortunately I had exactly that same nightmarish thought. nc4bo Jun 2014 #13
"Is Detroit a pilot city for the rest of America?" awoke_in_2003 Jun 2014 #35
"Is Detroit a pilot city for the rest of America?" LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #42
yes it is. It's Shock Doctrine without the natural disaster of the New Orleans privatization Ed Suspicious Jun 2014 #43
. rug Jun 2014 #5
I must be missing something. Everywhere I have lived, you don't pay your water or power... Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #6
What I would like to say to you would get my post hidden, for sure... truth2power Jun 2014 #7
Control yourself answer the question... Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #24
When your city is gutted by fleeing industry, you have to make some exceptions. The government Ed Suspicious Jun 2014 #44
How about they manage a public resource and charge accordingly. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #47
So your solution... Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #68
Those poor corporations, always getting a break that the average tax payer does not. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #70
"there's no money." I love that one! Especially when I think of the Pentagon! WinkyDink Jun 2014 #79
Yeah, there's ALWAYS *most* of our tax money for the damn Pentagon! nt valerief Jun 2014 #96
Pentagon? Hell, if you are gonna cite irrelevant places why not the Vatican... Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #109
Because the Vatican doesn't use my tax dollars? WinkyDink Jun 2014 #116
+1 forthemiddle Jun 2014 #135
"Control yourself...." daleanime Jun 2014 #48
Yes, let's let another American city die along with its inhabitants. WinkyDink Jun 2014 #10
+1 nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #15
Right! NOLALady Jun 2014 #32
Gravediggers wanted BYOS PATRICK Jun 2014 #80
Detroit has been dying for 40 years, the smart people left a long time ago snooper2 Jun 2014 #95
The people with the ABLILITY to leave left a long time ago. Lochloosa Jun 2014 #107
It's really hard to pull up stakes and move somewhere else, Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #121
They "voted with their feet," as St. Ronnie once suggested in another context? WinkyDink Jun 2014 #117
Yes. Detroit is finished. Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #110
They aren't cutting off corporate water supplies even though they are delinquent. alfredo Jun 2014 #16
Well they are the job creators right? bluesbassman Jun 2014 #18
As Tom Smothers says "Mom always liked you better." alfredo Jun 2014 #20
DUzy! CrispyQ Jun 2014 #138
+1 Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #17
I think your question is a fair one and one that should be honestly discussed. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #85
Well stated. n/t crim son Jun 2014 #91
You need to add that the Detroit Water and Sewer Department is owned by the City of Detroit etherealtruth Jun 2014 #125
That's TREASONOUS! Welibs Jun 2014 #8
And this, folks, is why the 1% want to own our water. WinkyDink Jun 2014 #9
They'd make us pay for air Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2014 #19
There is a significant cost that goes into getting purified water to your house joeglow3 Jun 2014 #28
Please add to your knowledge base the fact that the State of Michigan has stiffed the city Demeter Jun 2014 #40
Really, it's filtered? I suppose technically it is. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #50
Then I invite you to drink directly out of a river or pond joeglow3 Jun 2014 #55
If it had not been polluted, I would. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #69
That's still not the greatest idea. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #82
I 100% disagree. delrem Jun 2014 #60
It isn't purified, though it is treated gollygee Jun 2014 #75
They'd stick you in a sealed O2 chamber and make you pay for the privilege. The alternative is a Ed Suspicious Jun 2014 #45
For anyone who forgot about last year: Detroit Official Turns Off Power To "Send A Strong Message" Scootaloo Jun 2014 #11
And this "Non-Bias" Corporate "News" Reporter.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #33
Water is the next oil. Mulitnationals have been privatizing municipal water providers for some time NYC_SKP Jun 2014 #12
That's why the Bush Family bought 300,000 acres in Paraguay... KansDem Jun 2014 #98
This is also an excellent doc , if you haven't seen it yet. octoberlib Jun 2014 #14
Also see: The Water Front Earth_First Jun 2014 #22
Thanks ! octoberlib Jun 2014 #30
This thread is truly ridiculous. Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #21
Wow. Earth_First Jun 2014 #25
Did you read all of it? smallcat88 Jun 2014 #27
Of course not. laundry_queen Jun 2014 #58
Why do people comment when.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #38
Wrong. Totally aware of it. Buzz Clik Jun 2014 #57
Your post is about unreality. If I don't have money, you can't pay money. When you have to chose Ed Suspicious Jun 2014 #61
Cost of living is higher than people can afford. Most people can barely afford rent anymore. liberal_at_heart Jun 2014 #67
Priorities are FOOD and SHELTER.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #86
More accurately, "presuming the priorities of individuals of whom you have no relevant knowledge..." LanternWaste Jun 2014 #87
This message was self-deleted by its author 840high Jun 2014 #53
As goes Detroit... liberalmuse Jun 2014 #23
Nonsense. Detroit is not some bellweather of US prosperity... Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #111
"It's an crumbling, crime-ridden, corrupt, toxic, rust belt shithole" LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #114
Water is free tularetom Jun 2014 #26
A bucket of that stuff that the corporations pollute? Duer 157099 Jun 2014 #31
As long as the cost of cleanup of the corporate mess is externalized to private citizens, why not? Ed Suspicious Jun 2014 #46
Corporate polluters should pay the cost of cleaning up their own mess tularetom Jun 2014 #64
"The only thing" Hissyspit Jun 2014 #62
"Bullshit" won't solve the problem tularetom Jun 2014 #66
Here is a link to a map of the water system N_E_1 for Tennis Jun 2014 #89
OK but what's your limit? tularetom Jun 2014 #104
My grandparents used to live in Northville superpatriotman Jun 2014 #112
I'm sure it is... N_E_1 for Tennis Jun 2014 #134
Why is the city unable to pay the cost of pumping water? ymetca Jun 2014 #120
Too many issues with this story and sad state of the Treatment of Detroit's Residents, Retirees..and LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #29
+10,000 WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #51
Appreciated.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #52
Thanks for the link. Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #65
No problem! LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #88
This must have been how the Babylonians felt LittleBlue Jun 2014 #34
Why, one would almost think it was a national issue; you know, the "United" part? WinkyDink Jun 2014 #78
But it's not. Nor can it be. Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #113
It is disgusting what is being done to the poor... malokvale77 Jun 2014 #36
I'm with you, malokvale77. Disgusting is the word. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #72
Are they even trying to make payment arrangements for people who are past due or are they just cstanleytech Jun 2014 #37
Bad bad bad blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #39
If there is a 40% poverty rate, and folks are receiving.. Eleanors38 Jun 2014 #41
kick glinda Jun 2014 #49
"sweeten the pot for a private investor" indeed. arcane1 Jun 2014 #54
It was only a matter of time before this country sunk to third world level. When the Wall St sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #56
Classical definition of 'water' includes "necessary for life" delrem Jun 2014 #59
simple concept Niceguy1 Jun 2014 #63
Simple concept Arcanetrance Jun 2014 #92
Sounds like that conservative compassion. nt valerief Jun 2014 #97
This is the future The Right® has in store for all of us. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #71
Except he didn't even add "clean." Just "water." WinkyDink Jun 2014 #74
I would support Sgent Jun 2014 #73
But would Michigan cut off access to Michigan's water for NESTLE'??? Bwahahahaha! NO. WinkyDink Jun 2014 #76
I agree completely but just want to make one (pedantic) point etherealtruth Jun 2014 #123
Correct all you want; it's a quote from the article! :-) WinkyDink Jun 2014 #129
Do all of you not have a water bill? Motown_Johnny Jun 2014 #77
For me gollygee Jun 2014 #81
I agree, Motown_Johnny Jun 2014 #128
Motown_Johnny....we are to assume.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #94
As I said... Motown_Johnny Jun 2014 #126
Sure thing..... LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #131
Glad you brought this up packman Jun 2014 #100
"I feel for the citizens of Detroit...I got out worked several jobs to make sure the water..." LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #115
Thank you packman Jun 2014 #132
Your Misery I assume... LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #133
You're too far gone for any discussion packman Jun 2014 #136
Thus, no more useless replies, from you... LovingA2andMI Jun 2014 #139
There's two problems jeff47 Jun 2014 #108
The program would be handled by social services. Motown_Johnny Jun 2014 #127
Sure we can. jeff47 Jun 2014 #137
When will this craziness stop? TBF Jun 2014 #83
SAD Mr Dixon Jun 2014 #84
This is what happens when people vote for Pubs and their democratic corporate pals Exposethefrauds Jun 2014 #90
Detroit has had a Democratic Mayor since 1962 etherealtruth Jun 2014 #122
Here's a link The Blue Flower Jun 2014 #93
This is all a part of the Bankruptcy "negotiations". None of the comments here seem to understand Romulox Jun 2014 #99
Food and Water Watch Press Release. proverbialwisdom Jun 2014 #101
Another day, another step closer to Robocop. n/t Orsino Jun 2014 #102
People have "a human right to water" in what form? JayhawkSD Jun 2014 #103
About 25 gallons of "clean" water per person, per day pediatricmedic Jun 2014 #124
What the hell? davidthegnome Jun 2014 #105
There is more at stake here than thirsty people Kelselsius Jun 2014 #106
Link from Twitter today: Babies Pay for Detroit’s 60-Year Slide With Mortality Above Mexico's proverbialwisdom Jun 2014 #130
Another case of Starcats Jun 2014 #118
That's...just criminal blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #119

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
3. How the people of Detroit are being treated
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 08:49 PM
Jun 2014

and how they have been treated for decades is nothing short of shameful. And state-wide I don't think people in Michigan overall have much compassion for the people of Detroit. It's really painfully sad.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
4. God, this is sooooooo third world. Is Detroit a pilot city for the rest of America?
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 08:50 PM
Jun 2014

Maybe Canada will invade Detroit and turn the water back on.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
42. "Is Detroit a pilot city for the rest of America?"
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:30 PM
Jun 2014

Why yes, it is. Too bad most of Michigan proper and 70% of America is paying no attention what-so-ever --- what's happening in Detroit. That is until it comes to their door next.

One more thing -- on the Retiree "Cut Your on Throat" "Grand Bargain Dragon" "Deal".....here's the skinny:

1), If retirees vote yes on this crapola -- they lose 4.5% of their pension, are subject to a crawl back anytime into the LONG future the funding levels fall below 80%, are NOT allowed to pay back the crawl-back, lose life-insurance and only will receive a $125.00 stipend for healthcare.

2). The Michigan Constitution Section 9, Article 24 says this:

§ 24 Public pension plans and retirement systems, obligation.
Sec. 24.

The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.

Financial benefits arising on account of service rendered in each fiscal year shall be funded during that year and such funding shall not be used for financing unfunded accrued liabilities.


3). Why is Number #2 Important? Well, if retirees are scared into "Cutting Their Own Throat" by voting for the Grand Bargain -- DESPITE the clear as a bell Constitution Language stating: The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby -- this move NULL and VOIDS Article 9, Section 24 in Michigan for ALL Public Retiree Workers (State, Local, County).

Furthermore, (and this is the sneak move), it allows for a LEGAL CHALLENGE of ANY STATE Constitutional Language stating in part or whole: The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.

The Austerity crew (Rick Snyder, Kevin Orr, Federal Mediation Judge Gerald Rosen and more) know EXACTLY what they are doing -- it's the City of Detroit Retirees -- scared to death by the threat of a 30% cut which Constitutionally (State-wise) could never likely happen that have no clue.

This is how crapola rolls in Michigan...

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
43. yes it is. It's Shock Doctrine without the natural disaster of the New Orleans privatization
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:37 PM
Jun 2014

scheme. Milton Friedman would be proud. Makes me want to puke.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
6. I must be missing something. Everywhere I have lived, you don't pay your water or power...
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 08:59 PM
Jun 2014

They cut it off. Why should the people of Detroit be an exception?

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
24. Control yourself answer the question...
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:44 PM
Jun 2014

Every place I have lived, every single one, you either pay your utilities or they cut you off. No exceptions. I've had them cut off myself. I have a friend who loses his seems like every winter. It's not unique to Detroit, it would be weird if it wasn't that way.

So what do you propose? Should the citizens of Detroit be on the "Pay if you feel like it" plan?

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
44. When your city is gutted by fleeing industry, you have to make some exceptions. The government
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:39 PM
Jun 2014

should be in service of serving the people. People need water. What happens when one's water is cut off. I've had my power cut off, but you live days without water, that's it. It could literally be a death sentence to the destitute.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
47. How about they manage a public resource and charge accordingly.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:47 PM
Jun 2014

And with this model in mind, corporations pay more since they are making profits off of a public resource. And we have a system that takes into account the ability of people to pay.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
68. So your solution...
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:51 AM
Jun 2014

The corporations that haven't fled to pay more (thus encouraging them to leave), and the non-existent taxpayers to pick up the slack, all so that Detroit can implement a "pay if you feel like it" plan. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

And when the last remaining water line fails because there's no money to repair it, what magical solution will you offer? Detroit's problem is that they have a major city's worth of streets and plumbing and wires and vacant buildings, but little money to do anything but slow the inevitable collapse. They can't even afford to put out the fires. The city, just like the people who live there, is broke.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
70. Those poor corporations, always getting a break that the average tax payer does not.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:27 AM
Jun 2014

I think it should cover expenses. With Detroit having been driven into the ground, it is a different story.And I don't advocate a pay if you feel like it. Not what I said at all.
What could POSSIBLY go wrong? It's already happened, through no fault of the citizens.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
109. Pentagon? Hell, if you are gonna cite irrelevant places why not the Vatican...
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:51 PM
Jun 2014

Detroit's problems are local. The problem that most of the people with money pulled out -- leaving only the poor behind. And now there's not enough money left to take care of the roads and necessary services and infrastructure. Detroit is LITERALLY a city that cannot afford to put out burning buildings. The issue is not that the few remaining corporations get tax breaks (they likely get nowhere near what they could get if they threatened to move) but that there aren't enough of them remaining. There's nothing remaining.

Detroit is just screwed.

daleanime

(17,796 posts)
48. "Control yourself...."
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:48 PM
Jun 2014

Thank you for making it plain to me.




Your some one with nothing of value to add to the conversation.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
121. It's really hard to pull up stakes and move somewhere else,
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 07:49 PM
Jun 2014

especially when there are no roots in other places and there is absolutely no guarantee that a move will result in a better life.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
85. I think your question is a fair one and one that should be honestly discussed.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 08:17 AM
Jun 2014

It is the way it works across America. Someone has to pay for the service. It is costly to deliver water to the residence of an area. I do think that places like Detroit need to have some for of forbearance on water shut offs for those in need. Emergency action needs to be taken. With unemployment well into the double digits and a destroyed city somehow the government needs to ensure water to its citizens. I say emergency action because the city cannot simply shut off water to those who need it but can't currently afford it, while at the same time they do not have the staff in place to deal with the enormous paperwork necessary for those in need to prove their need. It really shouldn't be that hard during normal times to determine whose needs are truly legitimate and those who just want to take advantage. During this crisis it is much more difficult. Possibly mail a form with a pre-stamped envelope inside where the individuals fill out their current income. Then they would be sent back and people would have to review them. That takes manpower.

Once again, I think your question is fine for debate. I think it must be debated.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
125. You need to add that the Detroit Water and Sewer Department is owned by the City of Detroit
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:20 PM
Jun 2014

The city owned water department is a regional water supplier, but it is a city department and is facing the exact same hardships as the city

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
28. There is a significant cost that goes into getting purified water to your house
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:50 PM
Jun 2014

To expect it to be free is not reasonable.

I would like to see general taxes pay for more, but there needs to be a cost based on usage. If not, people would water the shit out of their lawn, waste water while showering, etc. by charging something, it provides an incentive for people to not be wasteful.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
40. Please add to your knowledge base the fact that the State of Michigan has stiffed the city
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:08 PM
Jun 2014

repeatedly of funds promised and collected for it. Funds which were counted into city budgets. Funds which somehow never materialized...thanks to the GOP controlled State House and Governor's mansion.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
50. Really, it's filtered? I suppose technically it is.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:51 PM
Jun 2014

With all the crap that is in our municipal supply, it has been deemed not safe for people with immune disorders.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
82. That's still not the greatest idea.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 07:25 AM
Jun 2014

Even if your groundwater doesn't have crap from fracking in it, doesn't have fertilizer run-off, doesn't have toxins leaking from some business or other or molecules of hormones or other drugs, it probably is home to a variety of microorganisms that won't 'play nice' with your body. That's why stores that cater to hikers sell things to purify water if you don't want to simply boil it before drinking.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
60. I 100% disagree.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:31 PM
Jun 2014

Unless a person is living in a desert, the getting of naturally purified water to their house isn't intrinsically problematic.

But, if one lives in a political environment where industrial polluters have next to the only say re. environmental concerns, then you're going to have problems down the line. Like, w.r.t. your drinking water, which will no longer run out of a tap.

Speaking just for myself: I'm totally opposed to the agenda of the industrial polluters, which is to give them an entirely free ride in committing crimes against the environment that no single person, beyond the totally extreme psychopath, would sign on to.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
75. It isn't purified, though it is treated
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 06:42 AM
Jun 2014

most of the expense is from sewer treatment. It's charged on one bill - you pay per gallon used rather than gallon flushed - but that's where most of the city's cost is.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
45. They'd stick you in a sealed O2 chamber and make you pay for the privilege. The alternative is a
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:45 PM
Jun 2014

plastic bag, that they'll bill you for, over the head to prevent you accessing their resources without remuneration.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
11. For anyone who forgot about last year: Detroit Official Turns Off Power To "Send A Strong Message"
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:10 PM
Jun 2014


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09/16/the-most-important-story-you-didnt-hear-last-we/195893
Last week, as the temperature soared to 90 degrees in Detroit, Michigan suffered a major power outage after an unelected city official decided he needed to send a "strong message" by turning off a portion of the electric grid. This led to dozens of reports of people trapped in elevators and the evacuation of numerous buildings, yet not a single major national news outlet felt this story warranted coverage.

Detroit is currently under control of an emergency manager, not elected by the people of the city, but instead appointed by Governor Rick Snyder.

Gary Brown, the city's chief compliance officer who reports to the emergency manager's office, when asked by local Detroit Fox affiliate about the blackout seemed to imply that it was intentional and done to "send a strong message:"

We did start calling our customers prior to taking them down and asking them to comply and turn off their air conditioners, but they weren't responding as fast as we would have liked them to, and so we had to send a strong message by turning the power off.

Among the buildings that lost power was the courthouse that was on "high alert" after a prisoner escaped earlier in the week, and evacuating major public buildings on the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks apparently wasn't considered. Even more disconcerting was that Brown seemed to be laughing as he answered this question.


LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
33. And this "Non-Bias" Corporate "News" Reporter....
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:59 PM
Jun 2014

Works for the $$ Money Bags Mayor now as his Communications mouthpiece.....

That's how crapola rolls in S.E. Michigan....

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
12. Water is the next oil. Mulitnationals have been privatizing municipal water providers for some time
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:11 PM
Jun 2014

PBS had a special on it, featured Detroit and Stockton, CA, IIRC.

Check it out: http://www.pbs.org/pov/thirst/

I think the link above is it.

Protect your local ownership and control of water at all costs!

KNR.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
14. This is also an excellent doc , if you haven't seen it yet.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:18 PM
Jun 2014

I think Detroit is mentioned because the water supply was privatized and rates shot up.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
21. This thread is truly ridiculous.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:38 PM
Jun 2014

What would be the monthly bill for water and sewage? $25? $50? Even if it were $100 per month, those who are delinquent have chosen other things as higher priorities. These customers are not being denied the "human right" to water, they are being denied free water.

Pay your bill, and the water comes on. Do without something that won't kill you if you don't have it -- you cannot live without water, so pay your bill.

This is not difficult.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
27. Did you read all of it?
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:49 PM
Jun 2014

Particularly the part about water prices increasing 119 % and a poverty rate of 40%. In case you missed the point this is about going after poor people for the horrific and unforgiveable crime of being poor. You can't pay someone with money you don't have. And you can't get jobs that aren't there.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
58. Of course not.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:18 PM
Jun 2014

It's easier for the empathy challenged to commit a fundamental attribution error. Makes them feel better about themselves I guess.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
38. Why do people comment when....
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:05 PM
Jun 2014

They HAVE NO clue.....Like for instance the UNEMPLOYMENT RATE in the City of Detroit.....is (DRUMROLL)

23.0% of the HIGHEST MAJOR CITY Unemployment Rate in the Nation, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics April 2014 report.

Again, clueless.....

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
61. Your post is about unreality. If I don't have money, you can't pay money. When you have to chose
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:47 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:40 AM - Edit history (1)

between rent and a water bill, you pay rent because without the roof over your head, that flowing water isn't getting to you anyway. That's no choice at all. You need to develop some empathy. Just because you have the middle class luxury of choice . . . look beyond your own circumstances. Seek to understand someone else's.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
67. Cost of living is higher than people can afford. Most people can barely afford rent anymore.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:36 AM
Jun 2014

Have you ever had to chose between water and electricity? We had to a few times when I was growing up. Screw your priorities theory.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
86. Priorities are FOOD and SHELTER....
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 08:27 AM
Jun 2014

When folks are broke -- including sometimes eating food out of garbage cans and taking shelter under a bridge.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
87. More accurately, "presuming the priorities of individuals of whom you have no relevant knowledge..."
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jun 2014

"My post is about priorities..."

More accurately, "presuming the priorities of other individuals of whom I have no relevant knowledge..."

Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #21)

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
23. As goes Detroit...
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:43 PM
Jun 2014

so goes the rest of the country. It's incomprehensible that this is being allowed to happen. This country is seriously, seriously broken, that we would allow our own to be treated like this.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
111. Nonsense. Detroit is not some bellweather of US prosperity...
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:02 PM
Jun 2014

It's an crumbling, crime-ridden, corrupt, toxic, rust belt shithole.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
114. "It's an crumbling, crime-ridden, corrupt, toxic, rust belt shithole"
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:17 PM
Jun 2014

Tell us how you really feel "Chris" or better yet, tell us what side of the fence you stand on.....better yet, don't because its' more than obvious by your "comments".

P.S. -- See the Racial Division that has separated the African-American majority populace of Detroit to the Caucasian filled suburbs -- in which some hate with a passion the People of Detroit.....

Also, have you ever been to North Rosedale Park with your "It's an crumbling, crime-ridden, corrupt, toxic, rust belt shithole" statement? Curious....

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
26. Water is free
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:48 PM
Jun 2014

Want some? Go down to the creek with a bucket and get all you want. When the city provides you with water they have to pay the cost of pumping it out of the ground or out of a river, treating it so that it meets health standards, and pushing it through miles of pipes so that it gets to your home. When you receive a water bill this is what you're paying for. A city water department is a communal enterprise. Everyone is assessed their pro rata cost of pumping, treating and distributing that free water. So if one user fails to pay his share, the burden increases on the other users. If 3,025 customers fail to pay their bills the burden on the remaining users becomes onerous. If 44,273 users fail to pay their share, the burden on the remaining users will cause more of them to fail to pay their share and the system will quickly spiral into insolvency.

So the City of Detroit has a difficult decision to make here. They cannot afford to operate a water system where a large percentage of their customers don't pitch in and help pay the costs so they have two choices. They can either shut off those customers who have failed to pay their water bills or they can simply shut down the entire system and deprive everybody of water, even those who have paid their bills all along. They can't keep operating a water system for free.

Now, if the City wants to forgive those water customers who are delinquent, they can transfer the money to operate the water system from some other portion of the city budget, and I think it would be appropriate to do so. However then the question becomes, what are they going to eliminate in order to fund their water operations? Basically, the only things local government can afford to fund out of their general fund budgets are public safety operations (police and fire). Want to fire some cops so some of your citizens can get free water? Want to get rid of some firemen? I wouldn't want to be on the board that had to make that decision.

It may sound harsh, but the city is doing the only thing they can under the circumstances.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
46. As long as the cost of cleanup of the corporate mess is externalized to private citizens, why not?
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:47 PM
Jun 2014

Right?

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
64. Corporate polluters should pay the cost of cleaning up their own mess
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

The water customer should not be burdened with the responsibility to remove contaminants dumped in the water by large users. No question about it.

But here's the problem. In many cases, the city that treats the water has no jurisdiction over the polluters. Suppose somebody is dumping some vile substance into the river 500 miles upstream from your town. The city fathers who operate your water system lack the power to force them to clean up their act or pay the cost for you to clean it up. It requires the enforcement powers of a higher level of government, state or federal, and strict enforcement of environmental regulations is definitely on the back burner right now.

Clean water is a human right. But clean water delivered to your kitchen at sufficient pressure to be pushed out of your tap costs money. And those who deliver it should be compensated for their expenses. Municipal water departments aren't trying to make a profit but they should be allowed to break even.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
66. "Bullshit" won't solve the problem
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:30 AM
Jun 2014

If they continue to give water to those who don't pay for it, eventually other customers will stop paying too. When enough others stop paying, the city will be unable to pay the cost of pumping the water through the pipes. They'll be forced to shut the system down, go hat in hand to the state or federal government and beg for money, or do what everybody here seems to be convinced they intend to do anyway and sell the water system to a private company.

The real question isn't why the city can't give clean water away free to it's customers but rather why so many of its citizens can't afford the cost of water. And why society has broken down to the point where a large American city is becoming part of the third world.

But that is way beyond my pay grade and I suspect, yours as well. Calling bullshit won't help the city of Detroit keep it's water system in operation so I'm interested in hearing words of wisdom from you.

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,593 posts)
89. Here is a link to a map of the water system
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 08:53 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.dwsd.org/pages_n/map_sewer_system.html

Many, many more people get their water from the Detroit Water System than just the people in the city. We all pay for it. I live in Oakland County, 45 minutes from the city, I get and pay for the same water. I would gladly subsidize the people who cannot afford to pay. Hell, I do already. The major portion of the systems customers live outside the city limits.

GIVE THEM THE WATER!

Edited to add, those cities outside the city are some very affluent cities. Not all but a lot.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
104. OK but what's your limit?
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:14 AM
Jun 2014

When they have to raise your rates to subsidize those who don't pay, is that still OK?

When even more customers learn they can get water for free and quit paying their bills, and they have to raise the rates again, is that still OK?

When every water customer except you figures out they don't have to pay, and you are responsible for the entire operating cost of the water system, is it still OK with you?

Where's your breaking point?

If they want to formalize a multi tiered rate schedule based on the customer's ability to pay, that's fine, if the customers will accept it. But they shouldn't just give water away when their ordinances require payment.

superpatriotman

(6,232 posts)
112. My grandparents used to live in Northville
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:04 PM
Jun 2014

There was a free-flowing (both literal and figural) spring there we would visit often. Is it still there?

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,593 posts)
134. I'm sure it is...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 06:53 AM
Jun 2014

Although I live a little north of Northville, about 10 miles. Without a little more info on location, if you can, it may be hard to know.

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
120. Why is the city unable to pay the cost of pumping water?
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 06:43 PM
Jun 2014

Because the water meter is connected to the electrical meter, which is connected to the fossil fuels extraction industry --the most profitable enterprise ever to have existed on Earth (at the expense of the Earth). Basic physics doth apply.

It's not a problem of not enough to go around. It's a problem of believing those "little green tickets" we call money have any real value. I am afraid we will all very soon find out the hard way that they don't. Then what will we do?

You cannot serve two masters...

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
29. Too many issues with this story and sad state of the Treatment of Detroit's Residents, Retirees..and
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 09:54 PM
Jun 2014

Workers. What has went on in Detroit is AUSTERITY in the USA at its' finest. Denying retirees a RIGHTFUL pension guaranteed by the State Constitution, Leasing Park Land given specifically to Detroit --- to Michigan by force making NO PROFITS in return, a City Council controlled lock, stock, and barrel by an Emergency Manager appointed by the Governor -- and the E.M.'s "RIGHTS" to dismiss the whole City Council when or if he feels like it, massive City Worker layoffs, a Mayor who $$ Purchased his way into the seat, residents stealing metal and copper from the top of building air conditioner units for a $200 scrap sell, race baiting by Media Corporations in Detroit and on and on.....

And now cutting off the People's Right to Water.....while the rumor mills says DETROIT WILL HAVE A $1.8 BILLION dollar SURPLUS announced in October 2014 --- just in time for Gov. Snyder's re-election. Can you say OCTOBER SURPRISE?

Here a story that clearly explains the Retiree "Rob and Grab" attempt, from our blog - Independent Underground News & Talk

"Part Two of Independent Underground News & Talk continual Op/Ed Series on "Detroit Grand Bargain" Deal and City of Detroit Retired pensioners. Review Part One of our series at this link.

The Economic Basis of Careful Review For or Against "Detroit's Grand Bargain" Deal

City of Detroit retirees are facing a life transformation choice. Whether proposed cuts are 4.5% or 30% in monthly pension, any reduction in revenue has real life consequences.

Utilities, fuel oil, car repairs, food. rent or mortgage obligations normally are not negotiable with creditors to reduce by 4.5% or 30% in view of the debtor's monthly income has decreased. In fact, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) May 2014 report:

"The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) increased 0.3 percent in April on a seasonally adjusted basis, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Over the last 12 months, the all items index increased 2.0 percent before seasonal adjustment.

The indexes for gasoline, shelter, and food all rose in April and contributed to the seasonally adjusted all items increase. The gasoline index rose 2.3 percent; this led to the first increase in the energy index since January, despite declines in the electricity and fuel oil indexes. The food index rose 0.4 percent for the third month in a row, as the index for meats rose sharply."


Let's break these numbers down a bit. From April 2013 to April 2014 all items: Food, Utilities and Shelter, Medical Care, Airline Fares, New Vehicles, Used Cars or Trucks, and Recreation rose 2.0%. During the previous period of study - March 2012 - March 2013, BLS cites the Consumer Price Index rose, "1.5 percent increase for the 12 months ending March." Thus, the average cost of living increase from March 2012 to April 2014 in prices for basic consumer goods, necessaries and services rose 3.5%."

Detroit Retirees are being asked to reduce monthly annuity income by 4.5% or more, but notwithstanding eliminate any future cost of living pension adjustments over the course of their lifetime."


Read more: http://www.reachoutjobsearch.com/2014/06/oped-does-voting-for-detroits-grand.html#ixzz352uDgMLE

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
52. Appreciated....
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:59 PM
Jun 2014

We just wish folks would pay attention to what's happening in Detroit because it will (you can bet on it) morph to a town near you, next.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
34. This must have been how the Babylonians felt
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:02 PM
Jun 2014

Detroit got huge during an industrial period that no longer exists. The middle class looks to have moved to the suburbs or away entirely.

This is what a decaying civilization looks like on a micro level. At some point, the city has to change. The tax base fled a long time ago and left behind an unsustainable anachronism.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
36. It is disgusting what is being done to the poor...
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:04 PM
Jun 2014

every day in this country.

And people right here on DU rationalizing it is even more disgusting.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
72. I'm with you, malokvale77. Disgusting is the word.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:37 AM
Jun 2014

Sudden poverty is a crisis for millions. In the past the nation and the states would pull together for the common good—no more.

Now we live in an Ayn Rand world where Grover Norquist decrees we will have no additional taxes.

cstanleytech

(26,082 posts)
37. Are they even trying to make payment arrangements for people who are past due or are they just
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:05 PM
Jun 2014

cutting them off if the people lack the money to pay it right now?

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
41. If there is a 40% poverty rate, and folks are receiving..
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:14 PM
Jun 2014

assistance in the form of cash allotments, why not use a check-off system equivalent to 1,000 gal/mo. per inhabitant at each residence? The check-off amount could be low with the price/per gal. rate rising above the min. level. Further, public taps can be installed for emergency use. In this fashion the utility can receive SOME income (even if low), while folks can get sufficient water.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
54. "sweeten the pot for a private investor" indeed.
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:02 PM
Jun 2014

Capitalism. Endless growth. It all comes to this in the end.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
56. It was only a matter of time before this country sunk to third world level. When the Wall St
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:09 PM
Jun 2014

criminals were bailed out, rather than prosecuted, did anyone expect that we could continue as a first world nation where the rule of law applies regardless of status?

Water should be free, but remember a few years ago when it was predicted that 'water would be the new oil' once the vultures figured out how profitable it would be to control it?

SHAMEFUL. But we do need outside intervention as things grow more and more dire for millions of Americans.

Whoever is responsible for this, should be JAILED, it IS a violation of International Law, not that anyone cares much anymore about the rule of law in THIS country.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
59. Classical definition of 'water' includes "necessary for life"
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:21 PM
Jun 2014

Without water, life as we know it doesn't exist.

Of course, one could choose otherwise and spend all $$$ on war.

Niceguy1

(2,467 posts)
63. simple concept
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:05 AM
Jun 2014

Don't pay your bills and your water gets turned off.

Can anyone name any city in the us that water service is for free? I have never bhad free water service in any of the places where I have lived.

Arcanetrance

(2,670 posts)
92. Simple concept
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:18 AM
Jun 2014

If you're living in a city with 40% poverty and double digits unemployment. Chances are good there's no money to pay the bill. But hey you're a nice guy right I mean it says so in your name

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
71. This is the future The Right® has in store for all of us.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:26 AM
Jun 2014

The CEO of Nestle recently proclaimed that access to clean water is not a human right.

See what we are up against?

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
73. I would support
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:53 AM
Jun 2014

a water fund to pay for the water bills of those who are destitute, but the current system just supports those who game the system. Its entirely possible that a large number of those 3,400 bills are to people in 1,000,000 homes who are deadbeats.

If you want to provide subsidies to those that can't afford it, then do so by intention. Don't back into it where most people feel guilty and chose to pay their water bill over buying medicine, etc., while you have others (who maybe rich) who chose not to pay because there are no consequences.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
76. But would Michigan cut off access to Michigan's water for NESTLE'??? Bwahahahaha! NO.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 06:42 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-privatisation-of-water-nestle-denies-that-water-is-a-fundamental-human-right/5332238

Large multinational beverage companies are usually given water-well privileges (and even tax breaks) over citizens because they create jobs, which is apparently more important to the local governments than water rights to other taxpaying citizens. These companies such as Coca Cola and Nestlé (which bottles suburban Michigan well-water and calls it Poland Spring) suck up millions of gallons of water, leaving the public to suffer with any shortages.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
123. I agree completely but just want to make one (pedantic) point
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 08:59 PM
Jun 2014

Nestle does bottle Michigan's precious water (something I adamantly opposed ) ... pedantry rears its ugly head as I correct this statement, ".... which bottles suburban Michigan well-water....". Nestle actually bottle water in Mecosta County (Mecosta Township/ Stanwood), which is very rural and fairly poor

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
77. Do all of you not have a water bill?
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 07:00 AM
Jun 2014

FYI, I live in Detroit.


Maybe it is just me but I don't understand, and I have had my water shut off (years ago).

Should I be getting my water for free? Should sewage also be free?

Is my ~$40.00 a month bill way out of line with what others pay?



I see the point that corporate water service be dealt with the same as residential. I'm also all for more help for lower income people. I just don't see how this falls on the water department. There needs to be programs to help people who can't pay for water but the idea that the bills just not get paid doesn't make sense to me. Are they really supposed to just continue to provide water and sewage services when they are not paid? If so, why should anyone pay?


By the way, it is possible that many of the houses being shut off are vacant. The numbers need to be looked into a bit more.




gollygee

(22,336 posts)
81. For me
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 07:16 AM
Jun 2014

It's the "there need to be programs" part. Have Nestle pay more for Michigan's water they're selling for ridiculous prices, and create some programs, or something along those lines. Everybody needs water for drinking and cleaning. We as a society need to make sure everyone's most basic needs are met, and there is money within our society to do that, but it's harder to get the money from corporations making ridiculous profits than to just shut off people's water.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
128. I agree,
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:55 PM
Jun 2014

but I don't see why it is the water company's responsibility to decide which people should have their bills forgiven and which are vacant properties which should have the water shut off.

Clearly the businesses should be collected upon also. I said that in my first post.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
94. Motown_Johnny....we are to assume....
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:32 AM
Jun 2014

You are NOT a part of Detroit's 23% Unemployment Rate Ratio. Thus, you have no problem paying a water bill. Also, the average water bill in Detroit is between $100-175 bucks thanks to public hydrants overflowing, the number of vacant properties, the Pension Issue and the lack of real assistance by County Resources of last resort. Oh by the way, Wayne Count is also broke. So make sure to keep your JOB or you might find the tap empty with your morning shower. FYI.....

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
126. As I said...
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:48 PM
Jun 2014

...I have no problem with programs to help people who can't afford to pay their water bills. I just don't understand why it should fall to the people providing the service to simply ignore the debt.

I also find it hard to believe that the average RESIDENTIAL water bill is in the $100 - $175 range. Maybe if you include businesses the average is that high. If you can provide a link to where you got those numbers from I would greatly appreciate it.


Also, some of the houses having their water shut off will be vacant properties. I support turning those off. I'm not sure how that would be done if the water co. was just ignoring bills that were several months past due.




LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
131. Sure thing.....
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 12:19 AM
Jun 2014

From the Detroit News March 22, 2014:

"The average monthly water bill in Detroit is about $75. Delinquent bills affect rates for other customers in Detroit, but not in the suburbs, Latimer said."


http://www.freep.com/article/20140322/NEWS01/303220010/Detroit-resume-water-shutoffs-delinquent-customers

Next what is the Mean:

The Mean means average. According to the information above, the AVERAGE Water bill is $75.00 a month.

Taking the mean 2x for a High Water Usage Customer $75 x 2= $150 a month bill.
Taking the mean 2. for a Low Water Usage Customer $75 / 2 =$37.50 a month bill.

Now take into account household size.

If the Household size is 4 with two children under the age of 10 years old, along with 2 adults whom wash clothes three times a week, take a bath or shower daily, wash dishes at least once per day, use water to wash hands after using the personal restroom -- plus factor in REAL LIFE situations in Detroit where the average housing stock was built between 1920-1965 (which means the pluming resources are likely older) --- then YES a family average water bill can easily range from $100-175 per month -- every month.

Any other questions Motown_Johnny?

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
100. Glad you brought this up
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:28 AM
Jun 2014

Bravo for your viewpoint and glad to hear from a citizen of Detroit. I wondered about this too and also have a $40 monthly water/sewage bill.

If all decide that free water is their due , the water company will fold and then private companies will take over. Seems like this is the last thing Detroit would want.

I feel for the citizens of Detroit, but this flies in the face of my life experience where I got out and worked several jobs to make sure the water, electricity, and rent was paid.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
115. "I feel for the citizens of Detroit...I got out worked several jobs to make sure the water..."
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:22 PM
Jun 2014

I.E. --- This is NOT about you. It is about the People of Detroit with a 23% Unemployment Rate, along with a 40% Poverty rate, topping it off with 119% increase over the last decade in Water Rates--- having their water "life essential" need being cut off in the MIDDLE OF SUMMER.

Thank you!

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
133. Your Misery I assume...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 02:10 AM
Jun 2014

Or are you wishing more misery on folks in Detroit shut off from a life essential resource, like water?

 

packman

(16,296 posts)
136. You're too far gone for any discussion
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:48 AM
Jun 2014

water one day , free. Then winter is here, let's have a thread on free electricity for heating. In between, there's the free food issue another thread- that's life essential surely. Then housing, can't have that free water, food and electricity going nowhere now can we. Life essential? Get real.

This could be a ping-pong thread, I'm coping out from it because you won't see my viewpoint and I'll never agree with you that all should be given without movement from those who are demanding. Migration from misery at point A to relief at point B is always an option and had been done all thru the history of mankind.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
108. There's two problems
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:45 PM
Jun 2014

First, the people running the show have done an utterly shitty job of running the economy, producing a lot of people who have to choose between paying the water bill and rent. They are now shutting off water because of their economic failures.

Second, they aren't cutting off commercial customers who are behind. If it's terrible for consumers to fail to pay the bill, it's terrible for businesses to pay the bill.

I just don't see how this falls on the water department. There needs to be programs to help people who can't pay for water but the idea that the bills just not get paid doesn't make sense to me.

Such a program would be in the water department.
 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
127. The program would be handled by social services.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:51 PM
Jun 2014

Also, part of the problem is that Detroit was once the center of industrialization in this country. That time has passed. The city would lose population and have the type of issues it is seeing now simply because of that change.

I won't try to support the way these changes were dealt with but you can't blame everything on "the people running the show".


jeff47

(26,549 posts)
137. Sure we can.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:50 AM
Jun 2014
I won't try to support the way these changes were dealt with but you can't blame everything on "the people running the show".

Sure we can. A large part of their job is management of the economy. They can't make jobs magically appear, but they can do a hell of a lot better dealing with the losses.

Mr Dixon

(1,185 posts)
84. SAD
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 08:11 AM
Jun 2014

Seems to me this was the plan all along, the new leadership looks as if they have a plan to renovate Detroit and the current inhabitant’s need to be removed, starving them out it would appear.

 

Exposethefrauds

(531 posts)
90. This is what happens when people vote for Pubs and their democratic corporate pals
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 08:58 AM
Jun 2014

Perhaps people will learn a life lesson and stop voting for and hell even being nice to pubs but this is America after all where ignorance is a virtue

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
99. This is all a part of the Bankruptcy "negotiations". None of the comments here seem to understand
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:17 AM
Jun 2014

the bigger context of this at all--Kevin Orr and Detroit's leadership's attempt to privatize the water system as a way to finance the city's bankruptcy.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
101. Food and Water Watch Press Release.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:31 AM
Jun 2014
https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/pressreleases/as-water-crisis-in-detroit-escalates-groups-pressure-united-nations-to-take-action-restore-water-service-to-thousands-of-residents-and-ensure-the-human-right-to-water/

PRESS RELEASE

June 18th, 2014
Groups Pressure United Nations to Restore Water Service in Detroit


Detroit, Michigan — In March 2014, the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD) announced it would begin shutting off water ser­vice for 1,500 to 3,000 customers every week if their water bills were not paid, and yesterday, the City Council approved an 8.7 percent water rate increase. According to a recent DWSD document, more than 80,000 residential households are in arrears. With thousands of families now without water, and thousands more expected to lose access at any moment, a group of concerned organizations have submitted a report to Catarina de Albuquerque, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Human Right to Safe Drinking Water and Sanitation, urging authorities to take immediate action to restore water services and stop further cut-offs. The report was released by the Detroit People’s Water Board, the Blue Planet Project, the Michigan Welfare Rights Organization and Food & Water Watch.

“By denying water service to thousands, Detroit is violating the human right to water,” said Blue Planet Project Founder and Food & Water Watch Board Chair Maude Barlow. “After decades of policies that put businesses and profits ahead of the public good, the city now has a major crisis on its hands. It is shocking and abominable that anyone would be subjected to these conditions.”

Over the last decade, Detroit residents have seen water rates rise by 119 percent. With unemployment rates at a record high and the poverty rate at about 40 percent, Detroit water bills are unaffordable to a significant portion of the population. Many of those affected by the shut-offs were given no warning. The infirm have been left without water and functioning toilets, children cannot bathe and parents cannot adequately prepare food for their families.

“When delinquent corporate water lines are still running without collection of funds, it demonstrates a level of intentional disparity that devalues the lives of the people struggling financially. Where is our compassion? Where is our humanity?” asked Lila Cabbil, President Emeritus of the Rosa Parks Institute.

In 2013, Detroit declared bankruptcy and appointed Kevyn Orr as emergency manager, giving him a mandate to get the city back on its feet financially. Orr has since taken steps to privatize the DWSD, and many now believe that the water shut-offs are an attempt to appeal to potential investors. In the Great Lakes region, large, private water companies charge households on average more than twice as much as rates charged by comparable publicly-controlled systems. Moreover, private operation has been linked to poor service, workforce reductions, maintenance backlogs, water leaks and sewage spills.

The Detroit People’s Water Board, the Blue Planet Project, the Michigan Welfare Rights Organization and Food & Water Watch make the following recommendations:

1. We call on the State of Michigan and the U.S. government to respect the human right to wa­ter and sanitation.
2. We call on the city to restore services to households that have been cut off immediately.
3. We call on the city to abandon its plan for further cut-offs.
4. We call on the federal and state governments to work with the city to ensure a sustainable public financing plan and rate structure that would prevent a transfer of the utility’s finan­cial burden onto residents who are currently paying exorbitant rates for their water ser­vices.
5. We call for fair water rates for the residents of Detroit.
6. We call on the City of Detroit to implement the original water affordability program.

Read the report here.

<>

The Detroit People’s Water Board is a coalition that includes AFSCME Local 207, Detroit Black Community Food Security Network, Detroit Green Party, East Michigan Environmental Action Council, Food & Water Watch, FLOW, Great Lakes Bioneers Detroit, Matrix Theater, Michigan Emergency Committee Against War & Injustice, Michigan Welfare Rights Organization, Rosa and Raymond Parks Institute, Sierra Club and Voices for Earth Justice. The coalition advocates for access, protection, and conservation of water and promotes the human right to water.

The Blue Planet Project is a global initiative that works with organizations and activists around the world to promote water as a human right and a commons. This includes working with local organizations and activists on grassroots struggles to protect democratic, community control of water, and building a movement to see the full implementation of the human right to water and sanitation. The Blue Planet Project is affiliated with international networks including Friends of the Earth International, Red Vida (the Americas Network on the Right to Water) and the People’s Health Movement.

The Michigan Welfare Rights Organization fights for, and represents, the victims of poverty. We organize to eliminate poverty and to stop the war against the poor. We are working with people to deal with the current water crisis in the City of Detroit by advocating for low income people to demand fair treatment, registering complaints against the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD), organizing protests and the DWSD offices and Detroit local government buildings, alerting people to resources – when available – to help with their water bills, and speaking out on the human right to water in the media and at public events.

[center]Food & Water Watch works to ensure the food, water and fish we consume is safe, accessible and sustainable. So we can all enjoy and trust in what we eat and drink, we help people take charge of where their food comes from, keep clean, affordable, public tap water flowing freely to our homes, protect the environmental quality of oceans, force government to do its job protecting citizens, and educate about the importance of keeping shared resources under public control.
###[/center]
 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
103. People have "a human right to water" in what form?
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 10:38 AM
Jun 2014

Do they have a "human right" to have it delivered at a turn of the tap in their kitchen? Or do they have a "human right" to be able to walk to Lake Michigan with a bucket and get it? Or do they have a "human right" to something in between?

The city does not charge for the water itself, or at least not merely so, it charges for purifying it, and delivering it to their door. Do people have a "human right" to have water delivered to their door?

We need to have some balance in what we claim.

pediatricmedic

(397 posts)
124. About 25 gallons of "clean" water per person, per day
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:10 PM
Jun 2014
http://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/human_right_to_water.shtml

No, they don't have a "human right" to have it delivered to their door. It must be close enough they can easily retrieve it, generally about a kilometer.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
105. What the hell?
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:42 AM
Jun 2014

Uhm... people are being denied water because they can't pay for it? In America? Seriously?

Okay, does anyone know if there's a way we can donate to the folks who don't have water? If not, maybe we can start an effort, right here, to turn their water back on. I don't have much, but I'd gladly give everything I can for this. Maybe we could start a new fund drive for this?

Kelselsius

(50 posts)
106. There is more at stake here than thirsty people
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 02:00 PM
Jun 2014

We are looking at a major health hazard. We are talking about thousands of people who can't take showers, wash their dishes or flush their toilets.
We are talking about a citywide breeding ground for parasites and disease.
On top of that, there will be desperate people stealing water. Breaking into their neighbors houses and tapping into fire hydrants.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
130. Link from Twitter today: Babies Pay for Detroit’s 60-Year Slide With Mortality Above Mexico's
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:28 PM
Jun 2014
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-11/babies-pay-for-detroit-s-fall-with-mortality-above-mexico.html

Babies Pay for Detroit’s 60-Year Slide With Mortality Above Mexico's

By Esmé E. Deprez and Chris Christoff
Jun 11, 2014 12:01 AM ET


Detroit’s 60-year deterioration has taken a toll not just on business owners, investors and taxpayers. It’s meant misery for its most vulnerable: children and the women who bear them.

While infant mortality fell for decades across the U.S., progress bypassed Detroit, which in 2012 saw a greater proportion of babies die before their first birthdays than any American city, a rate higher than in China, Mexico and Thailand. Pregnancy-related deaths helped put Michigan’s maternal mortality rate in the bottom fifth among states. One in three pregnancies in the city is terminated.

Women are integral to the city’s recovery. While officials have drawn up plans to eliminate blight, curb crime and attract jobs, businesses and residents, they’re also struggling to save mothers and babies. The abortion patients awaiting ultrasounds at the Scotsdale Women’s Center and the premature infants hooked to heart monitors at Hutzel Women’s Hospital must be cared for before the bankrupt city can heal itself.

<>
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»WTF? Cutting Off Water t...