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Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:10 PM Jun 2014

Racism, misogyny, homophobia and whatnot

The kernel of the issue is -- Dehumanizing human beings. It is some of the most crass, cynical and base behavior humans can engage in.

Those who are doing the dehumanizing are doing it for their personal convenience. It is nothing more than an effort to exert economic/social/political control over others, usually dressed in a façade of some prior offense assigned to the object of control. The offender may not acknowledge what they are doing in such blunt terms but once distilled that is exactly the sum total of their actions.

Still, the offenders will protest that they have their reasons. People didn't simply become anti-Semites, they claimed the Jews were all money grubbing bankers and merchants stealing from non-Jews. Blacks are portrayed as lazy and inclined to criminality so, thinking follows, it would be best to confine them to ghettos or more constraining environs. Homosexuals corrupt the youth. Women are vain, muddle-headed temptresses who probably wouldn't know what to do with a vote ballot.

There's always an excuse but the excuses always result in dehumanizing a human being.

The worst excuse is, "They started it!" The oppressed never have an excuse to become the oppressor. They, of all people, should know better.

This is why I do not find leveling misogynist slurs and whatnot at political opponents to be constructive, funny or salient. We will make our excuses based on their prior offenses but in a few generations time they will return to making excuses based on our offenses. We will never improve the human condition if we insist on making excuses for dehumanizing each other.

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Racism, misogyny, homophobia and whatnot (Original Post) Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2014 OP
And the people that support them buy saying it ain't nothing but a thing are just as despicable. William769 Jun 2014 #1
+1 redqueen Jun 2014 #4
Well said. dawg Jun 2014 #2
Well said. K&R Louisiana1976 Jun 2014 #3
Thank you for spelling it out. redqueen Jun 2014 #5
K&R ismnotwasm Jun 2014 #6
What I find annoying are the ones who are outraged on someone else's behalf Warpy Jun 2014 #7
If I may -- Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2014 #8
Yes, I'd far rather see them than be them, myself. Warpy Jun 2014 #9
I agree. I would never seek to silence. I would ask, I would appeal to higher aspirations Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2014 #10
Nobody here is suggesting that literature needs to be rewritten. redqueen Jun 2014 #11
Results Of Your Jury Service WilliamPitt Jun 2014 #12
DU must be Bowdlerized zeemike Jun 2014 #13
This is a really good post. Every bit of it. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #14
Thank-you for your very kind words. I am beyond flattered. I would also reiterate Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2014 #15

William769

(55,144 posts)
1. And the people that support them buy saying it ain't nothing but a thing are just as despicable.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:13 PM
Jun 2014

And yes you know who you are.

dawg

(10,621 posts)
2. Well said.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:24 PM
Jun 2014

I think we should aspire to something better than just being the mirror image of the "other" guys. Star Trek taught us that doesn't end well.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
5. Thank you for spelling it out.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:46 PM
Jun 2014

I'm gonna reiterate what I said elsewhere:

It's easy to say words are just words.

It's harder to address the cultural weight of the words. The fact that their use either feeds or fights against oppression. There is rarely any middle ground.

People keep pointing out art as a defense: 'Well this character said it' or whatever. In each such instance, we are learning something about the character who is using bigoted language.

When Ed Norton did so in American History X, we were not sympathizing with his sentiments as a character. We were being shown how fucked up that character was.

Warpy

(111,141 posts)
7. What I find annoying are the ones who are outraged on someone else's behalf
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 04:55 PM
Jun 2014

and troll for words they think should be expunged from all memory.

If you belong to any group they want to protect from even the mildest, joking pejoratives, you know what I mean. We didn't appoint these trolls and their outrage on our behalf is beyond merely unwelcome, it's infuriating because it ASSumes we are incapable of standing up for ourselves. It's patronizing at its worst.

I suggest the modern day censors read up on their history. First, their patron saint, Thomas Bowdler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bowdler

Note that he was trying to sanitize Shakespeare and Gibbon to protect women and children, of which he was neither.

Then they can read up on how he's been received over the years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expurgation

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
8. If I may --
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 05:05 PM
Jun 2014

I'm not black, gay, Jewish or many other things but I find it upsetting when others are attacked for who they are. It is not to imply those attacked are unable to defend themselves, it is the sense of common humanity that is the corollary to my OP. These are my neighbors.

I also feel sad for the attacker, in a way. Hate, bitterness and anger are not pleasant emotions. To be perpetually held captive to such feelings is, I think, a foretaste of Hell itself.

Warpy

(111,141 posts)
9. Yes, I'd far rather see them than be them, myself.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 05:12 PM
Jun 2014

However, I'd rather wince at an occasional word or answer a silly prejudice in a thread rather than try to silence a poster or expunge every slightly negative word from the board. It's especially vexing when some self appointed guardian of tender feelings tries to do these things on my behalf.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
10. I agree. I would never seek to silence. I would ask, I would appeal to higher aspirations
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 05:18 PM
Jun 2014

but I would not seek to silence. That too is nothing more than another form of control. The only person I should govern is myself and my efforts in even that simple task are lacking; all the more reason I am not fit to control another.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
11. Nobody here is suggesting that literature needs to be rewritten.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 05:26 PM
Jun 2014

People are simply saying they don't consider homophobic and misogynistic jokes / insults appropriate for use at DU.

Not even "mild" homophobic and misogynistic jokes / insults.

 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
12. Results Of Your Jury Service
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 05:47 PM
Jun 2014

What I find annoying are the ones who are outraged on someone else's behalf
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5123153

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling DUers who object to homophobic insults "trolls", is way way way over the top. Its one thing to disagree. This is much worse.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jun 19, 2014, 05:37 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Just because it is largely unintelligible does not mean it is "disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate."
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: These alerts are getting ridiculous. I don't like RP, I think he's over the top, and so I don't read him. People need to start learning how to use the hide feature on all but the most egregious stuff. This post by Warpy is pedestrian. I read worse stuff on the sides of cereal boxes every morning. Grow up, alerter.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Geez.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Wat?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What? Nowhere in that comment did he/she call DUers trolls.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
14. This is a really good post. Every bit of it.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 07:12 PM
Jun 2014

Including this, too:

The worst excuse is, "They started it!" The oppressed never have an excuse to become the oppressor. They, of all people, should know better.


Very true. Very true.

But more than anything, this:

There's always an excuse but the excuses always result in dehumanizing a human being.


This, this, and this. I could repeat this over and over again, and not once would that ever overstate just how factual and just plain true it all is. EVERY kind of collective prejudice has been about dehumanization. Always has been that way.




Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
15. Thank-you for your very kind words. I am beyond flattered. I would also reiterate
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:05 PM
Jun 2014

what I said in Post #10 --

I would never seek to silence. I would ask, I would appeal to higher aspirations but I would not seek to silence. That too is nothing more than another form of control. The only person I should govern is myself and my efforts in even that simple task are lacking; all the more reason I am not fit to control another.
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