General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRacism, misogyny, homophobia and whatnot
The kernel of the issue is -- Dehumanizing human beings. It is some of the most crass, cynical and base behavior humans can engage in.
Those who are doing the dehumanizing are doing it for their personal convenience. It is nothing more than an effort to exert economic/social/political control over others, usually dressed in a façade of some prior offense assigned to the object of control. The offender may not acknowledge what they are doing in such blunt terms but once distilled that is exactly the sum total of their actions.
Still, the offenders will protest that they have their reasons. People didn't simply become anti-Semites, they claimed the Jews were all money grubbing bankers and merchants stealing from non-Jews. Blacks are portrayed as lazy and inclined to criminality so, thinking follows, it would be best to confine them to ghettos or more constraining environs. Homosexuals corrupt the youth. Women are vain, muddle-headed temptresses who probably wouldn't know what to do with a vote ballot.
There's always an excuse but the excuses always result in dehumanizing a human being.
The worst excuse is, "They started it!" The oppressed never have an excuse to become the oppressor. They, of all people, should know better.
This is why I do not find leveling misogynist slurs and whatnot at political opponents to be constructive, funny or salient. We will make our excuses based on their prior offenses but in a few generations time they will return to making excuses based on our offenses. We will never improve the human condition if we insist on making excuses for dehumanizing each other.
William769
(55,144 posts)And yes you know who you are.
dawg
(10,621 posts)I think we should aspire to something better than just being the mirror image of the "other" guys. Star Trek taught us that doesn't end well.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)I'm gonna reiterate what I said elsewhere:
It's easy to say words are just words.
It's harder to address the cultural weight of the words. The fact that their use either feeds or fights against oppression. There is rarely any middle ground.
People keep pointing out art as a defense: 'Well this character said it' or whatever. In each such instance, we are learning something about the character who is using bigoted language.
When Ed Norton did so in American History X, we were not sympathizing with his sentiments as a character. We were being shown how fucked up that character was.
ismnotwasm
(41,965 posts)Warpy
(111,141 posts)and troll for words they think should be expunged from all memory.
If you belong to any group they want to protect from even the mildest, joking pejoratives, you know what I mean. We didn't appoint these trolls and their outrage on our behalf is beyond merely unwelcome, it's infuriating because it ASSumes we are incapable of standing up for ourselves. It's patronizing at its worst.
I suggest the modern day censors read up on their history. First, their patron saint, Thomas Bowdler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bowdler
Note that he was trying to sanitize Shakespeare and Gibbon to protect women and children, of which he was neither.
Then they can read up on how he's been received over the years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expurgation
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I'm not black, gay, Jewish or many other things but I find it upsetting when others are attacked for who they are. It is not to imply those attacked are unable to defend themselves, it is the sense of common humanity that is the corollary to my OP. These are my neighbors.
I also feel sad for the attacker, in a way. Hate, bitterness and anger are not pleasant emotions. To be perpetually held captive to such feelings is, I think, a foretaste of Hell itself.
Warpy
(111,141 posts)However, I'd rather wince at an occasional word or answer a silly prejudice in a thread rather than try to silence a poster or expunge every slightly negative word from the board. It's especially vexing when some self appointed guardian of tender feelings tries to do these things on my behalf.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)but I would not seek to silence. That too is nothing more than another form of control. The only person I should govern is myself and my efforts in even that simple task are lacking; all the more reason I am not fit to control another.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)People are simply saying they don't consider homophobic and misogynistic jokes / insults appropriate for use at DU.
Not even "mild" homophobic and misogynistic jokes / insults.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)What I find annoying are the ones who are outraged on someone else's behalf
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5123153
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Calling DUers who object to homophobic insults "trolls", is way way way over the top. Its one thing to disagree. This is much worse.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jun 19, 2014, 05:37 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Just because it is largely unintelligible does not mean it is "disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate."
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: These alerts are getting ridiculous. I don't like RP, I think he's over the top, and so I don't read him. People need to start learning how to use the hide feature on all but the most egregious stuff. This post by Warpy is pedestrian. I read worse stuff on the sides of cereal boxes every morning. Grow up, alerter.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Geez.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Wat?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What? Nowhere in that comment did he/she call DUers trolls.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)Because it is the right thing to do
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Including this, too:
The worst excuse is, "They started it!" The oppressed never have an excuse to become the oppressor. They, of all people, should know better.
Very true. Very true.
But more than anything, this:
There's always an excuse but the excuses always result in dehumanizing a human being.
This, this, and this. I could repeat this over and over again, and not once would that ever overstate just how factual and just plain true it all is. EVERY kind of collective prejudice has been about dehumanization. Always has been that way.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)what I said in Post #10 --