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boston bean

(36,221 posts)
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:05 PM Jun 2014

Been meaning to ask this, since it appears

that it is ok to question juries and what is and isn't allowed. And all sorts of other meta material.

I made this post about the Tom Tomorrow cartoon that was locked:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024976200

It was locked up by the hosts as META and a suggestion I take it to ATA. But every post now whining about a DU jury decision isn't locked up as violating the SOP.


I don't have a problem with them being left open. What I do have a problem with is the double standard that seems to be taking hold. My free speech was squelched by hosts of the forum for "whining about DU". What say you all about that? I'm curious to know.

48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Been meaning to ask this, since it appears (Original Post) boston bean Jun 2014 OP
Could you point me to the Tom Tomorrow 'toon thread that was locked please? Electric Monk Jun 2014 #1
Coming from a poster whos favorite group has zero tolerance for dissenting opinions... beevul Jun 2014 #33
Are you trying to imply that what I wrote was untrue? Electric Monk Jun 2014 #36
I'll answer yours right after you answer mine... beevul Jun 2014 #45
Hosting in GD is dysfunctional... SidDithers Jun 2014 #2
whether meta is "disruptive" or not depends on whether they like the alerter or altertee* PeaceNikki Jun 2014 #6
Yeah, it's been like that for a long time... SidDithers Jun 2014 #9
GD is the new meta. PeaceNikki Jun 2014 #10
But we need you for Wisconsin / Walker updates... SidDithers Jun 2014 #12
Nikki! The band is getting back together, and we need you! bettyellen Jun 2014 #30
We're on a mission from God! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #37
Are you the sixth Beatle? We have missed you! bettyellen Jun 2014 #41
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark out, PeaceNikki Jun 2014 #42
THIS!! bettyellen Jun 2014 #43
Can I join! I'll bring some food! boston bean Jun 2014 #44
the perfect Blues Bros. road trip food! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #48
+1000 Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #47
Juries are not hosts. GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #3
Freedom of speech says "CONGRESS shall make...." NightWatcher Jun 2014 #4
Agree but Swede Atlanta Jun 2014 #5
yeah, I'm not enjoying the reign of the PC Language Police either NightWatcher Jun 2014 #8
I have a problem when this has been going on for years and years, yet some are Rex Jun 2014 #7
if some hosts like you, they will say it doesn't seem like whining or is "discussing the discussion" bettyellen Jun 2014 #11
Yup, that's the way I remember it... SidDithers Jun 2014 #13
I'd encourage every DUer who is curious to sign up to anything but GD so they can host immediately bettyellen Jun 2014 #15
Me and BettyEllen are part of a group apparently. zappaman Jun 2014 #22
Nope... SidDithers Jun 2014 #25
and Number23 remembers not liking me, LOL. Cooley ignores my advances, but I think there were six bettyellen Jun 2014 #28
You're right! zappaman Jun 2014 #29
Uhm are you referring to me? I certainly have NO relationship with the hosts riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #16
don't think so......why would you say that? not sure which "first post" of yours you are bettyellen Jun 2014 #19
Sorry. My bad. My post about the Rude Pundit riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #20
no problem at all. I don't think anyone there dislikes you enough to find bettyellen Jun 2014 #24
Hosting GD worked better with majority votes. aikoaiko Jun 2014 #18
good luck on achieving consensus with what consensus means, LOL. the "strong leave" is such a nifty bettyellen Jun 2014 #21
Whoops I meant boston beans at the top of this thread. aikoaiko Jun 2014 #23
gotcha, and I agree a majority vote was better. if you open a thread and see "strong leave" why bettyellen Jun 2014 #26
Different hosts and different interpretations of what is ... aikoaiko Jun 2014 #14
I just looked and LiberalElite Jun 2014 #17
join the hosts forum and marvel at how it is rebranded as "discussing the discussion" bettyellen Jun 2014 #27
no true zappaman Jun 2014 #31
well lately I have seen some put a wrench in that with the hard leave bettyellen Jun 2014 #35
The "hard leave" is basically a veto, isn't it... SidDithers Jun 2014 #38
there will never be consensus on what consensus is, and it is hilarious to see hosts try to "settle bettyellen Jun 2014 #40
LBN's very specific posting rules make it impossible to whine about a lock or hide there. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #32
Odd, as a host of another group, you have access to the hosts forum. So all you have to do, is read quinnox Jun 2014 #34
riiiggghhhttt... I did read it and the reason it was locked was stated in the OP. boston bean Jun 2014 #39
Sigh. SMH. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #46
 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
1. Could you point me to the Tom Tomorrow 'toon thread that was locked please?
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:07 PM
Jun 2014

I've been away for a few days and missed this.

As to the why it got locked, some pro-2nd-rkba types don't want any discussions about guns unless they're about how awesome and fun they can be.



edited to add: an excellent place to post 'toons that mock gun nuts would be here


edited again: Are you referring to this Tom Tomorrow 'toon thread that is not, in fact, locked, and also has 200+ recs?

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
33. Coming from a poster whos favorite group has zero tolerance for dissenting opinions...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:38 PM
Jun 2014
"As to the why it got locked, some pro-2nd-rkba types don't want any discussions about guns unless they're about how awesome and fun they can be."


Coming from a poster whos favorite group has zero tolerance for dissenting opinions, the above, spoken towards members of a group which allows and encourages discussion, is pretty damned funny.


And not "funny haha".


But maybe you can clear it up for everyone in GD:

What specifically is your problem with the GD SOP being enforced as strictly as the SOP of your favorite group?

Come on now, don't be shy.


 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
36. Are you trying to imply that what I wrote was untrue?
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:43 PM
Jun 2014
some pro-2nd-rkba types don't want any discussions about guns unless they're about how awesome and fun they can be.


True or not?

If you want a protected gun lovers group where no mention of any negative aspects was allowed, go ahead and lobby for one like anyone else would for their topic of interest. It might make for some interesting reading. Somehow I don't think the admins would go for that, though. There's nothing stopping you from trying
 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
45. I'll answer yours right after you answer mine...
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:44 PM
Jun 2014
If you want a protected gun lovers group where no mention of any negative aspects was allowed, go ahead and lobby for one like anyone else would for their topic of interest.


Your favorite group allows ONLY the negative aspects to be mentioned, yet you project that sort of iron fisted control on those of us who discuss the issue in the guns forum, where no similar or parallel attempts to control the discussion are made.

Since I did ask first, I'll answer yours right after you answer mine:

What specifically is your problem with the GD SOP being enforced as strictly as the SOP of your favorite group?



SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
2. Hosting in GD is dysfunctional...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:07 PM
Jun 2014

and should be scrapped, IMO. Hosts routinely ignore parts of the SOP.

Let juries decide what is on and off-topic for the Forum.

Sid

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
6. whether meta is "disruptive" or not depends on whether they like the alerter or altertee*
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:37 PM
Jun 2014

#notallhosts, but several.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
9. Yeah, it's been like that for a long time...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:59 PM
Jun 2014

I once had a post hidden for telling a poster that their alerts are ignored by some Hosts, simply because of who they were.

That said, there are some really good Hosts. It's too bad that they're so often neutered by the bloc of Hosts that think that nothing is ever off topic.

Sid

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
12. But we need you for Wisconsin / Walker updates...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:24 PM
Jun 2014

Some interesting times ahead for you, I think.



Sid

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
42. It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark out,
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:53 AM
Jun 2014

and we're wearing sunglasses.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
4. Freedom of speech says "CONGRESS shall make...."
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:19 PM
Jun 2014

The owners of this private site can do whatever they want.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
5. Agree but
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:35 PM
Jun 2014

I am finding the self-censoring in DU has risen to Victorian standards.

If a post doesn't please the Victorians among us it gets hidden.

As a result I don't participate in juries and never share my real feelings here anymore. This site is no longer about an open exchange of ideas. It is about sharing the ideas that the most fragile among us share. I kind of liken it to Stasi Germany a bit.

But I still enjoy many of the posts and often use what I learn here on other truly progressive sites.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
8. yeah, I'm not enjoying the reign of the PC Language Police either
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:41 PM
Jun 2014

They use certain reasons to prevent certain words from being used. People who use the unpopular (to some) words are labeled as bigots, sexists, racists, or some other "ist" that no one wishes to be called. So they are given power to control expression.

Every group is protected and therefore it is wrong to speak ill of them. I don't know how far it will be taken.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
7. I have a problem when this has been going on for years and years, yet some are
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 05:38 PM
Jun 2014

JUST NOW noticing or making an issue out of it. Makes me wonder if they noticed it too, long ago, but just now got around to talking about it...cuz it fits their agenda atm.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
11. if some hosts like you, they will say it doesn't seem like whining or is "discussing the discussion"
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:17 PM
Jun 2014

even if it is a meta shit storm with five alerts and people asking the OP to delete- it's the "group" of alerters who are disruptive.

but, there are half a dozen people here whose OPs are protected by some hosts like body guards. it is certainly interesting, that hosts forum.

anyone who doubts me should go ahead, join up and and take a look. tranparency is awesome.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
13. Yup, that's the way I remember it...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:27 PM
Jun 2014

not surprised it hasn't changed much in the last year.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

Sid

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
15. I'd encourage every DUer who is curious to sign up to anything but GD so they can host immediately
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:36 PM
Jun 2014

and take a peek at what goes on. sunlight is the best disinfectant, it might actually help things.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
22. Me and BettyEllen are part of a group apparently.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:54 PM
Jun 2014

Cuz we alerted on a whiny post from a poster who some hosts like.
So did 3 other DUers.
But I don't need to tell you who the worst host was and still is, do I?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
28. and Number23 remembers not liking me, LOL. Cooley ignores my advances, but I think there were six
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:04 PM
Jun 2014

and we forgot one? But meeting you was worth all the accusations!! :love:

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
16. Uhm are you referring to me? I certainly have NO relationship with the hosts
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:37 PM
Jun 2014

I've had ONE PM from a host, ever.

And I'm most commonly a "thread killer". This is probably my first post to ever reach this level of notoriety.

Can you post some substantiation of your claim?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
19. don't think so......why would you say that? not sure which "first post" of yours you are
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:44 PM
Jun 2014

referring to, but I don't think you were involved at all in the hosts threads I am thinking of.
sign up to host and take look for yourself, there is waay too much weird stuff in there, I would not know where to begin. seriously. it;s interesting.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
24. no problem at all. I don't think anyone there dislikes you enough to find
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:57 PM
Jun 2014

excuses to hide it. and that is pretty much what it takes these days.

aikoaiko

(34,169 posts)
18. Hosting GD worked better with majority votes.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:43 PM
Jun 2014


Skinner wants locking to be done by consensus, but for a while (a year or so) it was done with majority votes. Skinner made it clear that he wanted locks to be done with consensus which means one host can veto the lock. GD worked better with less mean spirited meta by majority

I would t be surprised if your OP was locked.
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
21. good luck on achieving consensus with what consensus means, LOL. the "strong leave" is such a nifty
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:52 PM
Jun 2014

thing, ain't it? Kinda like saying "shazam!"

Not sure what OP of mine was locked, but if I actually criticized the hosts, I sure as hell would expect them to find an excuse to lock it. that is one of the few things hosts actually agree is disruptive these days!

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
26. gotcha, and I agree a majority vote was better. if you open a thread and see "strong leave" why
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:59 PM
Jun 2014

would anyone even bother?

aikoaiko

(34,169 posts)
14. Different hosts and different interpretations of what is ...
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:35 PM
Jun 2014

Productive discussion of discussion and what is disruptive meta.

If I were GD host I would have voted to lock a lot of the whining OP about a jury hide.

OP Complaints about jury hides, host locks, or admin decisions are easy locks.

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
17. I just looked and
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 09:38 PM
Jun 2014

except for LBN, in each of the main forums, in the "about this forum" tab it states "no whining about DU."

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
27. join the hosts forum and marvel at how it is rebranded as "discussing the discussion"
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:01 PM
Jun 2014

and very rarely gets hidden. meta is no longer an issue either.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
35. well lately I have seen some put a wrench in that with the hard leave
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:15 PM
Jun 2014

just to be defiant, LOL. that's been amusing to watch, but yeah in the past you'd get locked for not sitting at their cafeteria table.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
40. there will never be consensus on what consensus is, and it is hilarious to see hosts try to "settle
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 11:49 AM
Jun 2014

the issue" when there are new hosts cycling in and out of there almost daily who are not obligated to accept the definition set by a few. It is still not a settled issue in there. Don;t see how it could be.

But yeah, a few have put forth that one merely needs to say "strong leave" and run away with no explanation and the thread must stay open.
It flies in the face of what MOST of Skinner repeatedly said about discussing things as a group in order to achieve consensus.
No one feels obligated to explain or discuss, indeed many hosts get angry and claim to be harassed when asked anything. You can have strong leave as a first post and render all other votes worthless, and discussing the OP becomes moot.

The funny part is when someone votes leave, and someone asks- is it strong or wishy washy? LOL. That about sums it up.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
34. Odd, as a host of another group, you have access to the hosts forum. So all you have to do, is read
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:56 PM
Jun 2014

the threads in there to understand the decision making process. At least, I could have sworn seeing you post in the host forum many times?

Or maybe it was a figment of my imagination...

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