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Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 02:03 AM Jun 2014

Watch an El Paso cop shoot and kill a prisoner whose hands are cuffed behind his back

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/06/20/Unarmed-and-handcuffed-man-shot-and-killed-by-El-Paso-police-while-in-custody/8281403214507/

Unarmed and handcuffed man shot and killed by El Paso police while in custody

Warning: The video below contains graphic footage.
By JC Sevcik | June 20, 2014 at 4:56 PM | 1 Comment


EL PASO, Texas, June 19 (UPI) --The city of El Paso released video footage Thursday of an El Paso police officer shooting and killing an unarmed and handcuffed man. The incident occurred more than a year ago.

The video shows Daniel Saenz, a 37-year-old bodybuilder, shirtless and handcuffed, being dragged through the hallways of a jail by an officer and a jail guard.

The video starts with Saenz already bleeding from his head -- an injury sustained when he "struck his own head" on his walk into the jail, according to police.

The officer and the guard drag Saenz outside, to what appears to be a loading dock.

They appear to talk for several minutes and during this time Saenz appears calm.

The officer and the guard try to stand Saenz up again, to move him, and Saenz begins struggling.

They throw him to the ground, press his face into the concrete, put a knee in his back.

The officers do not taser him, spray him with mace, summon additional guards or officers to aid in subduing their charge.

Saenz twists and writhes, struggling to flip himself over and the guard recoils. Saenz makes a grabbing motion and the officer draws his gun and fires.

<snip>

Here's the video. The struggle begins just after 18:30


24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Watch an El Paso cop shoot and kill a prisoner whose hands are cuffed behind his back (Original Post) Comrade Grumpy Jun 2014 OP
An El Paso grand jury failed to indict Officer Flores. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2014 #1
I guess you missed this story on DU the first time around TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #2
There were options VAliberal Jun 2014 #3
I see. The police didn't want him to hurt himself, so they killed him. NutmegYankee Jun 2014 #4
missed this part of the article, too, I see TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #7
I read it. I own firearms and know that it wasn't an accident. NutmegYankee Jun 2014 #9
So he's a nice chap when he's not killing someone. Owl Jun 2014 #10
It was an accident TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #12
Is gross negligence the same as a simple accident? Or does is represent a certain recklessness? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #13
He WASN'T physically incapable of moving his arms! TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #16
I don't think you understand how proportional response operates. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #17
It was and ACCIDENT TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #19
Why did they pull a firearm on a handcuffed suspect? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #20
The only way a gun fires is if the trigger is pulled. NutmegYankee Jun 2014 #23
The only reason to point a gun at a human being is if you intend to shoot them. NutmegYankee Jun 2014 #24
You seem desperate to spin a narrative absolving the police officer. Jesus Malverde Jun 2014 #22
Good god... nt Bonobo Jun 2014 #5
No kidding...nt Jesus Malverde Jun 2014 #21
why not a holding cell? pfitz59 Jun 2014 #6
Because police officers are institutionalized to not care about prisoners. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #14
because they needed to take him to the hospital TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #15
N/M. WinkyDink Jun 2014 #8
Thanks conservatives damnedifIknow Jun 2014 #11
K&R for awareness kristopher Jun 2014 #18
 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
1. An El Paso grand jury failed to indict Officer Flores.
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 02:05 AM
Jun 2014

According to the newspaper, it's not clear if he's still on the force.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
2. I guess you missed this story on DU the first time around
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 03:46 AM
Jun 2014

The dude was on bath salts and had attacked another officer and staff members of a hospital where he was brought since he was so obviously out of his gourd and that he also repeatedly bashed his own head on a doorway. Five previous attempts of tazering didn't work on him, etc....

http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/video-released-local-bodybuilder-daniel-saenz-shot-el-paso-police-officer-5316.shtml#.U6aH4KKLe_g

VAliberal

(297 posts)
3. There were options
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:10 AM
Jun 2014

Why not, then, have three cops guarding and escorting him instead of two? Why not have leg restraints in addition to his hand restraints? Surely actions could have been taken to prevent this murder?

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
7. missed this part of the article, too, I see
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 07:56 PM
Jun 2014

"CLEAT said the unidentified prison guard with Flores accidentally hit that gun which caused it to fire and strike Saenz in his left shoulder."

The officer didn't shoot him on purpose, but the gun went off when the prison guard barreled into the officer which is obvious in the video.

By the way, this is the same officer that bought a homeless old man with no shoes a new pair of boots and socks with his own money.



NutmegYankee

(16,178 posts)
9. I read it. I own firearms and know that it wasn't an accident.
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 09:13 PM
Jun 2014

You don't withdraw a gun unless you intend to use it. The prisoner was in handcuffs. No reason for a firearm to be off safety and the finger anywhere in the trigger housing. Guns don't "just go off" from being bumped. The Officer pulled the trigger.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
12. It was an accident
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:46 PM
Jun 2014

You can see very clearly in the video that the guard smacked into him causing the gun to go off.

Geez.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
13. Is gross negligence the same as a simple accident? Or does is represent a certain recklessness?
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:50 PM
Jun 2014

"Geez" - I mean, Jesus, what is the big deal here? It's just someone who was shot to death while physically incapable of moving his arms.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
16. He WASN'T physically incapable of moving his arms!
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:19 AM
Jun 2014

Read the article I linked. He was able to quickly move his arms while handcuffed from his back to his front and was observed doing it several times. He was bashing in his own head and had assaulted another officer and several staff members at the hospital they brought him to because he so obviously was on some bad drugs or totally nuts and needed help. Five times he had been tasered previously with no effect. The video shows that when the officer had his gun on him, the prison guard bashed into him and caused the gun to fire striking the nut in the shoulder. The officer that accidentally shot him also tried to save his stupid life by administering CPR immediately.

Yes, sometimes cops do bad things and deliberately shoot someone that there was no reason to. This wasn't one of those cases, and the officer DID NOT shoot deliberately as can clearly be seen in the video. Yes, it's a shame that he's dead. It's a bigger shame that the guy took bath salts that caused him to go crazy and assault anyone that got near him including medical staff attempting to HELP him. Were it not for his own actions he would never have been in this position and despite all the violent crazy shit he did he still wasn't shot or killed deliberately.

Pardon me for having a lot more compassion for the people this nut violently assaulted because he was so uncaring of himself and those other people to take bath salts and become a crazed violent loon so bent on hurting himself and everyone that got near him.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
17. I don't think you understand how proportional response operates.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:24 AM
Jun 2014

For instance, just because a suspect is assaulting or threatening to assault an officer does not mean that the officer is justified in shooting the suspect because the response must be proportional.

Pardon me for having a lot more compassion for the people this nut violently assaulted


Interesting, because I'm pretty sure shooting a handcuffed person to death is violent assault.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
19. It was and ACCIDENT
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 01:01 AM
Jun 2014

There was no intent to shoot him. How many times must I have to say that? The video shows how the guard bashed into the officer that caused the gun to fire. There was NO deliberate shooting.

There IS proportional response in shooting someone that is in the act of assaulting another person depending on the circumstances. But this was NOT a deliberate shooting, and the guard that crashed into the officer was lucky that he wasn't the one shot. And if he was it would still be just as much of an accidental shooting.

Why are you still insisting that the officer shot the guy on purpose when he clearly did not? What is it that you don't get that he was shot by ACCIDENT when the guard crashed into the officer causing the gun to fire?

Fuck it. It makes no difference what the hell me or the grand jury says, you'll still get your cop hate on anyway and believe you have some special knowledge no one else does to condemn him for no other reason than because he's a cop.


NutmegYankee

(16,178 posts)
23. The only way a gun fires is if the trigger is pulled.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 05:28 AM
Jun 2014

They don't fire from being shaken or bumped. Guns NEVER just "go off". The Officer had his finger on the trigger.

I and another poster are criticizing the cop because he shot an unarmed handcuffed man at point blank range. As for the Grand jury comprised of people too stupid to get excused from it, he must have gotten George Zimmerman's jury...

NutmegYankee

(16,178 posts)
24. The only reason to point a gun at a human being is if you intend to shoot them.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 05:44 AM
Jun 2014

Why was a gun withdrawn for a handcuffed suspect? And once again, being familiar with the operation and design of semi-auto handguns, I can state that they don't go off unless the trigger is pulled. Which leads to the fun question - why was his finger even inside the trigger guard?

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
22. You seem desperate to spin a narrative absolving the police officer.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 03:36 AM
Jun 2014

If you watch the alternate view from about 32 minutes in, you can see their is no contact between the two officers.

What we have is a man who is having mental health problems and two unprofessional officers who kill him.

pfitz59

(10,198 posts)
6. why not a holding cell?
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 08:35 AM
Jun 2014

The whole incident looks too fishy. throw the guy in a padded cell and let the drugs wear off. why was he dragged thru the entire precinct?

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
15. because they needed to take him to the hospital
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 11:55 PM
Jun 2014

because he was crazed on bath salts and was bashing his own head on a door frame.

It was obvious that he required medical attention in the state he was in. Would you have preferred that they just chucked him in a cell and let him beat his own brains out and kill himself?

For heaven's sake, they did the right thing in realizing he needed medical help and took him to a hospital. Where the guy assaulted several staff members that were trying to help him.

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