When will it be enough?

eom

What will it take for the general population to get it?

Sibel Edmonds has been wondering the same thing... apathy WTF?

http://tracesofreality.com/2014/06/11/bfp-roundtable-8-why-are-americans-so-apathetic-and-what-can-be-done-about-it/

The conservatives and the rich know this and that's why they will do everything to prevent that.

But also overstimulated by celebrity, the cult of personality, and media propaganda.

It's the modern-day Coliseum.

without the bread.

I cannot understand how the propaganda spewed by RW media on behalf of the Plutocrats could be so damn successful, but it is! They get them so angry that they can displace that anger and aim it at Democrats and the poor. That anger also inoculates them from reason and logic.

PUBLICLY FUNDED ELECTIONS AND COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!! This is the only way to save our country!

Thanks for the thread, pbmus.

The ones wondering why they can't have what other countries have and the answer is clear.

Because our system was designed by rich white males to further enrich rich white males.

If everyone in the US had a masters degree in some field how would this stop the current unemployment rate?

A livable minimum wage is more important than this issue.

whether you work for yourself or someone else, education is the key ...

we still need clerks at walmart. Even if they have a master degree in finance they need more pay per hour.

which is finally being realized by the elite ...

is no longer prestigious. Truth is, we just don't need 300m college educated people.

I agree with the health care, though.

...that countries that provide free higher education are also much more restrictive about who they provide it to. So, just because it's free doesn't mean it is AVAILABLE to everyone.

We need dignity and (at least) a living wage for everyone, and free (or at least cheap) higher education for those who are both qualified AND willing to use their education for the betterment of everyone.

Did the Republicans really convince the nation that ultra low taxes enhance the economy? Sure looks that way.

Two wars + tax cuts = high deficit.

I also don't believe that spending many $10,000 for some dopey college degree (or two) is any guarantee of a job that is meaningful and that pays a meaningful wage.

Education in the U.S.A. has just become another way to strip the populace of their savings for zero return. Certifications, Degrees, Licenses are all ways eeking more money without leading to a real future. You ain't going to get a position on the BoD of Goldman unless you are related to/slept with/know something about someone already in power.

A decent job. but then we let our elite ship even the research lab positions overseas.

And I have never understood the concept of how X amount of classes means that you know more than, and are more qualified than someone else. For instance, my son left all his easy classes for his last year of college. At a job where he was interning, they suggested that he think about applying for several open positions. Then they found out he was still X classes short of his degree, and told him they couldn't employ him till he had the degree.

But does someone really need "Understanding Japanese haiku" to handle a position in computer tech work? This whole thing makes no sense to me. In his case, the government was paying his tuition anyway, so although totally bored out of his mind by school at that point, it wasn't a big deal. But for someone else, the $ 16,000 a year tuition might have been prohibitive.

does someone really need "Understanding Japanese haiku" to handle a position in computer tech work?

Yes. Someone really does need "Understanding Japanese haiku" or some other similar liberal arts courses to handle a position, any kind of a position that involves responsibility, ethics, morality and even positions in computer tech may involve those qualities, especially if the computer tech person becomes a manager and has to deal with people.

College is the time in your life to learn not just a practical skill that you can use to make money but also what it is to be a person. What it is to be a person in a culture other than your own. What it is to be a person in a historical period other than your own. What it is to think and dream.

Einstein was a violinist. So was his successor at Princeton. Many of the early computer programmers were musicians. We need to learn to think and write beyond the level we reached as seniors in high school.

So, yes someone really needs "Understanding Japanese haiku" or some other liberal arts courses if that person wants to claim to be half-educated.

Sorry. But the question really irks me. In other countries, many Americans are viewed as ignorant, arrogant slobs. It's because we don't teach our children to value other cultures or the basics in liberal arts.

It is oh, so easy to construct computers that can control drones that kill, so hard to understand how to conduct yourself in the world so that you don't get into life or death conflicts. Liberal arts is the study of human thinking and human relations. Your son would not be an educated person without it. If he is bored, too bad. I find chemistry boring, but I still took the courses and am happy about it now. So happens one of my jobs involved understanding chemistry. You cannot judge at the age of 22 what will be important in your live at the age of 59.

Courses in college or high school yet somehow did not find it that all hard to fuck over their fellow Americans once they got the big job Wall Street, when push came to shove and the gobs of money were theirs if only they would do so.

Liberal art classes may or may not help you to have a high set of morals. I have known people educated at the "best schools" who took the best-est artsiest fartsiest classes in the world, and went on to be grade a jerks. Meanwhile there are probably plenty of people out there who wouldn't know a haiku from a road sign but they have lived lives of kindness and moral values.

I did not have the money to do the liberal arts thing in college, but went to a trade school. (Did get to attend a great liberal arts HS, though.) And a library card enabled me to keep up with most of what is going on in the art world, the literary world, etc.

My point is that college is very expensive, and at what point is that worth it? My kid was winning poetry contests at age nine, so another year of that did exactly what for him? My feeling is that if the company wanted him while he interned, then he was good enough to go ahead and take the job. Obviously the company had other thoughts on the matter. But it doesn't resonate with me that a person will be a drone-killing moral midget just because they haven't had any liberal arts training.

I have some of those same feelings after being chewed up in Vietnam and spit back out ...

I think we have proven to the world that we are the biggest and baddest badd asses on the planet ... bar none ....

and I personally believe it is time to show the world we can be the smartest on the planet ...

Do you know how brave many of the Norwegians were for instance?

It is easy for an American in the US to read Anne Frank and pride himself on having own WWII. It is another matter if you are, say, Norwegian or Dutch or French and have a family member who was part of the resistance or performed even some small act of resistance.

Americans are smug about WWII. We should be proud, but we should readily acknowledge the contributions that people made to helping us and helping the British win that war.

Smug we should not be.

JDPriestly

Many Norwegians - as most of the occupied Europe did many brave things to make the occupying as hard as possible for the germans - and even then Norway was seen as one of the more easy assignments for germans - as it was kind of a policy from the government in Exile (And the King) not to provoke to much against the germans, mostly because the government in exile would not experience any Yugoslavia on Norwegian soil - Even as Norway would have been a prime target for partisan warfare as Norway is full of woods and mountains to hide in if necessary - It was not until late in the war - that the Norwegian Resistance fighters was starting to get some ground - and to really inflict some damage to the germans (and we also have a very brave residence fighter group called the Oswald Group, who was communist in ideology - but who was instrumental in doing a lot of damage to the germans - and also was inflicted hardest when the germans was doing their job arresting, torturing and in man cases execute the groups members - after the War the oswald group was almost forgotten in the official history writing of WW2 - it was Milorg who was the national Resistance fighters of Norway - and in the logic of cold war the Oswald group was almost forgotten - it was not until last year - some of the last members of the Oswald group was given the recognizing they deserve - and was given the medals they should have been given in 1945, as the other heroes was given their medals... As one of the members who is still alive said it "It is nice I was able to get the medal I was given - but it was many who was much braver than me who deserved the medal more, and who never was given any by the government"...

Most Norwegians have some family members - either alive or dead who was a part of the Resistance - that be grand parents - uncles - and older family members who still is alive - not many of them as it is 70 year since World War two started - one of my last relatives who was young when the war started died a few years ago - 83 year old - Even though my dad was alive and a young kid when the war started - he told me once it was from his point of view not to dangerous - he always believed the germans to be nice, as they gave away "bomboms" to the kids - but he also said that the last winter of the war 144-45 was hard - and that it was often the food help from Sweden and Denmark who kept the family from starving the last year of the war - and it was also in the last year or so - the Resistance really was starting to do damage to the germans - in the hope it could make germans end the war earlier.... And even then, Norway was one of the countries in Europe who got easy off the hook when World War two was over - we got our independence - and the country managed to rebuilt itself with less political up wail than in other parts of europe - where the Resistance was starting civil war with each others when the common enemy was out of the scene... (Like Yugoslavia and Greece for)


Americans tend to be somewhat smug about the war - and it might be because many in the US have learned from young age how brave the US is in time of war - and that the rest of the world is still soooo depended of an american security guarantee - many still believe Europe to be in ruble - and that the Soviet Union is rather still intact and ready to attack the west... The fact is that US came late into the war - and had to learn the hard way how to fight an enemy who superiority was intact way into 1943- early 1944 - even after Stalingrad in 1943 -and the loss of North Africa the Germans had disciplined armies all over Europe - and firepower to give the allied forces a really challenge, in many cases it was not the generals fault germans was on the loosing side of the war - it was that **** Corporal Adolf Hitler who really messed up things by demanding things that was impossible to do... and always was second guessing the generals... If the allied forces in North Africa - Italia and Western part of Europe have had a president or a prime minister who was always second guessing and messing up with the military side of the war - I guess we would still have been a war in Europe... Thankfully we do not had any leader who was second guessing the generals all the time - even if the generals was at odd with the political leadership now and then - the generals was able to do their job - with the best tools available at the time - and the war was won - in the end by bombing germany to a pile of rubbles - helped by the US Air force - and the Royal Air force - and more or less every national air force who was stationed in the UK under the war... World War two was won not just by a nation or two nations, or tree nations - it was won by mos european nations - and the rest of the world - who was fighting against the evilness of nazi-german and imperial Japan...

Diclotican

That cost them the war.

The British Air Force was a couple of days from capitulation when Hitler made the decision to start bombing cities instead of airplanes and air bases.

If he hadn't delayed the invasion of Russia for a couple weeks to crush the Greeks, Stalingrad would surely have fallen.

If Hitler had committed his reserves under Rommel to repel the allied invasion of Normandy promptly, instead of holding them back believing it was a feint, we would have been crushed on the beaches.

Calista241

I know - Hitler did to many critical errors under the war to really count - but the decision about bombing british city's is up there at one of the worst blunders Hitler did made - in fact the bombing of London and all the other british city's happened by accident - and Hitler was so impressed by the result - that he deiced that Luftwaffe was to use its power not to hunt down RAF - but to bomb the Britt's into submission by destroying their city's - after all the Terror bombing of Warsaw Rotterdam and countless other terror bombings of other european city's had worked well for the germans before in the war.... The respite the RAF got when Hitler deiced to bomb the city's instead of the airfield, bases and airplanes of the Royal Air Force in 1940-41 was one of the main cases why RAF was able to build up its strength - and to continue the war - even german generals have told so - after the war was over... Even if it was horrible for the people of UK, and most of them had to be rebuild after the war - and good know how many who died in the terror bombing - the british was kind of as they always are when devastating happening on their Iceland's - more stubborn than ever - and even a bombed out shop - just made the owner a way to use the british form of understatement to say his shop was more open than usual - against that form of understatement - even Prussian Germany could never won the war I guess....

The delaying of the invasion of Russia in 1941, who should have started in April I believe - and who started in June 1941 was one that should hunt Germany, the generals and Hitler for as long as the war was - specially as the italian dictator Mussolini had messed up his war plot in Yugoslavia and Greece - and in fact was on its way to be defeated by greece forces who was doing its best to beat the crap out of the italian counterpart - Hitler was afraid - and understood the necessarily of making sure Balkan was silent - and put a large bulk of his forces into that front - devastated Yugoslavia and Greece - but had to put a lot of its forces on the ground - to make sure it was not to end up in enemy hands again - and he lost his "golden lock" when it came to war against Russia... Even if Werhmact - Waffen SS and Luftwaffe was to almost win the war by August 1941 - as Stalins commands about total control over the armies was more devastating than the war against the germans itself - it was not until Stalin at least deiced he better trust his generals who had shown some initiative - defending against the germans to do their job - without him interfering - and also to make sure NKVDs armies of "political advisor's" to the armies was ordered to help the generals rather han mess up their policies - that Russia had any chance to do anything against the invading Germany - who was close to beat Stalin on his own turf - if the generals had been able to do their things instead of Hitler messing up always - it might have ended a whole different way all togheter...


Not to say Normandy - who was a challenge to say it least - and it could have ended a whole different way from the allied forces that day - if Rommel had getting his ways with the reserves - who was strong enough to keep its own - when first inland from the beaches of Normandie... Hitler believed - in his ways he was the smartest generals alive - that it would be madness to concentrate it on Normandy - all the time they had no harbors - no availability to keep the military forces coming ashore - The inventions of floating harbors kind of was floating away from Hitler all together - and he was not able to grasp that the war of 1944 was a whole different war than it was in 1914 - when trench warfare was the best to offer... And he was not able to grasp that war was something different in 1944 than in the last word war.. And he could work himself up to a frenzy talking about what he had experienced in World War one - even long until the early evening on the morning - the poor generals had to listen to him, even if they was dead tired and just wanted to get to bed - but no one dared telling Hitler that it was late - and they had some important things to do later on that day...

Diclotican

Nye Bevan


All the time no american soldier was on Norwegian soil way after World War two The first few ones came in 1947 - and one of them was arrested for possession of drug - but was not fined or put in a prison because no one wanted it to came out - he was released and put on the first ship out of Norway.. It was the British who was responsible for sending the germans back home - and to make sure military equipment was destroyed after world war two - between May 1945 and October 1945 it was the british who "ruled"- Norway - and also raped more woman in that time frame - than Germans did with 450.000 in 5 year but I guess it was the spoil of war and all that.

And by the way - It was not all of Scandinavia who was occupied by the Germans - Sweden managed rather well to keep itself out of the war - and was playing both sides for the whole war - sympatic to the germans when it looked like German was the ones winning the war - but after Stalingrad in 1943 (You know that city who bar the name of Stalin, and who was Whermacts most devestating blow as the city fall to the Soviets after first have been bombed back to the stone age by the Luftwaffe - mostly overrun by the Whermact - and then insircled by the russians - and then won back from the germans when the Soviets was starving them out to give it up again... But Denmark and Norway was occupied by germany between 1940-1945.

I guess we could be less gratefully than we have acted the last 70 year when it came to World War two - who by the way was won not just by the US - It was at least a few other nations in that war who was fighting for the "right" side of history... And I would guess at least a few millions europeans who was involved in overthrowing nazi-Germany in their ways - everything from making jokes to blow up things....

But yeah - I guess US singlehandedly won the war - as many americans have learned from young age - and that most of Europe was just sitting on their hands and was not doing anything to save their own asses - I guess in the ayes of many americans even the british was not doing to much fighting the Nazism - even if they had been fighting for two full years before the US got involved in the war - when the Imperial Japanese Naval forces was attacking Pearl Habour... If Japan had not been attacking Pearl Harbor I guess FDR would have had a lot harder time convincing americans it was just to fight against Hitler in Europe - after all a few weeks before the war started in 1941 - many powerfully americans was telling that US had no interest in that war who was ravaging in Europe - and the best US could do was to keep itself out of the fry...

Diclotican

in this country means their own personal gain in investment. E.g., the Romoney family. Either these folks believe they're either going to live forever, or that they can indeed take it with them.

Thanks for posting this very common sense graphic...it tells the tale.

I like Occupy's Silhouette Man. I say round up a bunch of those and make a comic book publication of them. Saturate the confines of those 47% who voted for MR.

your rich own most of your politicians, and fool many of your citizens into fighting to keep it that way.

citizens must prepare to defend their views by showing up for elections. I'm concerned with the resurgence of neo-nazi nationalists around the world.

Occupy everywhere on the azure planet.

"Keep the serfs so busy providing their own human necessities and defrock/denude/indenture the political class and nationalism rears its ugly head ... "

FYI: Occupy is everywhere ...

Quit wasting our time.

we take to the streets by the hundreds of thousands. 3-4 million people on the Washington Mall.

and stuff? No, that won't work anymore with today's police force and its mentality. Until we become the 1950's Teamsters, nothing will be accomplished I'm afraid these days. The core of crooked politicians is just too vast.

This alone will bring he republicans out of the woodwork.

I personally think this post is a good idea, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime. And if it became law tomorrow, what would happen to all the current student loans? It does not paint a pretty picture.

What would happen to the student loans? If we consider the overwhelming amount of debt, and the likelihood that it will ever shrink significantly as opposed to growing significantly... those student loans have been a looming crisis for quite some time now. I'm sure we all know people who owe student loans and do not have the means to repay them. I don't just know some of those people, I AM one of those people. This doesn't stop the threats of wage garnishment, or the fact that, even if you file for bankruptcy, that debt remains.

If the student loan debts vanished overnight? All of that debt, all of that money? Well, I'm no economist, but I suspect it would be disastrous for the economy. The thing is, that kind of crash is coming sooner or later anyway, it's impossible (I hope) to keep this going indefinitely. The student loan debt, the medical debt, the overwhelming overall debt of the American people.

In a Nation where millionaires (the upper portion of the 1%) pay many of their employees minimum wage and are worshiped as job creators. Where people who need help buying food, or just surviving are blamed for all of society's woes. A Nation that is ignorant enough to be mad at all the wrong people.

Hell, we can't even succeed in raising the federal minimum wage to a level that it should have been raised to many years ago. We couldn't even get a public option into our healthcare system. The rich pretty much own this economy - and they are breaking it, they're basically raping and pillaging at this point, squeezing for everything they can get before the shit really hits the fan - and it will. That's pretty much inevitable.

My honest belief is that the shit is going to hit the fan HARD sooner or later. Through progressive action now through, through working towards what we want... we might have more of a say in what kind of Country we're living in after we clean up the shit.

I think we could (and should) look to Scandinavian Countries for ideas about progress, growth, and overall success. They indicate very strongly that progressive ideas and policies can not only work - but work wonderfully. Hell, maybe I'll move to a Scandinavian Country myself. If I could be a Citizen, I'd have access to great healthcare, to higher education that wouldn't break me and leave me in debt for decades. To a system of law and work that seems to benefit the common people, as opposed to only the very rich.

What a truly intelligent reply. I am so with you on this. I TOTALLY agree with EVERYTHING you have expressed. Kudos dude.

The idea of slave is alive and well in these United States. People being so brainwashed that thinking of having and owning negative debt on someone's potential in the future of their lives is pretty much slavery in nutshell.

We won't retain ownership of country to we make banking subordinate to government, at present it is reversed and probably won't last long



P.S. Are really that afraid of republicans and what they might do?

We'll grab you too, all in good time.

I get about a trillion for education from K-12 and college in the US, but only 70 billion for prisons.

http://prospect.org/article/education-vs-incarceration (70 billion on prisons)

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_education_spending_20.html (1 trillion on education)

According to the sources I found, government spends about 70 billion on prisons (American Prospect) and about 330 billion on higher ed.

-Laelth