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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Sun Jun 22, 2014, 07:38 PM Jun 2014

Ex-Goldman Trader Who Said $8 Million Bonus ''Too Low'' Involved in Fraudulent Activities

Turns out the guy missed out on another $5 million not because he was doing crooked things to make Goldman billions, but because he revealed the crooked things Goldman was doing to the press.



From the people interested in economic justice at World Socialist Web Site:



Former Goldman trader involved in fraudulent activities says $8 million bonus too low

By Andre Damon
WSWS.org, 21 June 2014

A former Goldman Sachs trader who helped the bank bet against toxic mortgage-backed securities it was palming off to investors is attempting to sue his former employer because he says his multimillion-dollar pay package did not reflect the billions of dollars the bank earned as a result of his trades.

Deeb Salem, the former head of trading for Goldman’s Structured Products Group, complained that he received an $8.25 million bonus in 2010, though he said informal comments made by company executives led him to believe he would get closer to $13 million that year.

Salem filed a petition with the New York State Supreme Court last week, demanding that he get an additional $7 million from Goldman, after the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority—a Wall Street self-regulator—ruled in favor of Goldman in an earlier arbitration.

[font color="green"]Salem claims his pay was docked because, as noted in a written warning he received, he showed “extremely poor judgment” by bragging in print about trades that his trading desk had made under his supervision in his 2007 annual self-evaluation. It should be noted that Salem’s pay was docked not because he carried out illegal trades, but because he left a paper trail.[/font color]

SNIP...

[font color="red"]Salem’s report refutes the 2010 claim made by Goldman CEO Lloyd Blankfein under oath that “we didn’t have a massive short against the housing market, and we certainly did not bet against our clients.”[/font color]

CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/06/21/gold-j21.html



I don't like the game when the refs get off the same bus as the opposing team.
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Ex-Goldman Trader Who Said $8 Million Bonus ''Too Low'' Involved in Fraudulent Activities (Original Post) Octafish Jun 2014 OP
Kick. redqueen Jun 2014 #1
Because there's no negative consequences. MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #2
Goldman Rule Octafish Jun 2014 #13
They strut like rats in tails and top hats. JEB Jun 2014 #3
That outstanding phrase sums them up. Octafish Jun 2014 #10
It is a sad price we are all paying so a few can be enriched beyond dreams. JEB Jun 2014 #11
Thank you, JEB. I was not familiar with that site... Octafish Jun 2014 #12
What does it take to be incarcerated? Anything goes? Above the law? Owl Jun 2014 #4
If you are wealthy enough you can get away with anything in this country. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #5
The People vs. Goldman Sachs Octafish Jun 2014 #14
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #6
S.E.C. Case Stands Out Because It Stands Alone Octafish Jun 2014 #15
If Democrats want to build an election headwind they should choose to prosecute such players. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #22
Guess the Top DEMs don't want that supermajority thing. Octafish Jun 2014 #24
He's such an upstanding guy so I will assume he paid full taxes too. mackerel Jun 2014 #7
And I am betting that the Cayman Islands are happy to "hold" Marie Marie Jun 2014 #8
K&R For crying out loud, no words...except fuck these bastards. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #9
Why nothing seems amiss to the Ref... Octafish Jun 2014 #16
Short changed? You're being kind. Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #17
Bonus Guy Deeb Salem may be one of the big brains behind the toxic swaps. Octafish Jun 2014 #31
It's so awful..this is just one reason why voters get so overwhelmed..and that only speaks Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #32
Wouldn't you be upset if you were shorted $5MM? taught_me_patience Jun 2014 #20
You forgot the sarcasm thingie. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #21
They're all liars and crooks. Lock 'em up and throw away the key. Initech Jun 2014 #18
Truly outstanding idea, Initech! The next ''Big Thing'' from Goldman Sachs! Octafish Jun 2014 #30
I'd be pretty pissed off too if I were shorted $5MM on a bonus taught_me_patience Jun 2014 #19
True. What most angers me is that he's getting a bonus for GS FRAUD. Octafish Jun 2014 #26
Kicked and recommended again. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #23
Deeb Salem was noticed in Texas, back in '07... Octafish Jun 2014 #28
Of course he cut corners. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #25
He had to explain to his mom. Octafish Jun 2014 #27
Ohhhh my. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #29
K&R woo me with science Jun 2014 #33
I hope this guy doesn't get jumped from the top of a tall bank. He's the Bankster Rosetta Stone. Octafish Jun 2014 #34

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
13. Goldman Rule
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:42 AM
Jun 2014

Do onto others, cash the check, blame someone else.



“We’re very important,” Lloyd C. Blankfein said in an interview with The Times of London. “We help companies to grow by helping them to raise capital. Companies that grow create wealth. This, in turn, allows people to have jobs that create more growth and more wealth. It’s a virtuous cycle.”

SOURCE: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/goldman-chief-says-he-is-just-doing-gods-work/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0



IOW: Just a banker, "doing God's work."

Except the times they use the money to make money, and skip the middle man, whether customer or society.
 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
11. It is a sad price we are all paying so a few can be enriched beyond dreams.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:20 AM
Jun 2014

I imagine you are familiar with the following site.
http://linhdinhphotos.blogspot.com/

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
12. Thank you, JEB. I was not familiar with that site...
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:24 AM
Jun 2014

...I do know each of those towns and areas of their towns, having visited the East Coast towns in April. I've been in Joliet more than once. Business.

Bookmarked. I will examine those remarkable images, admire the good people and learn more about the project. Thank you.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
14. The People vs. Goldman Sachs
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:53 AM
Jun 2014
A Senate committee has laid out the evidence. Now the Justice Department should bring criminal charges

By Matt Taibbi
Rolling Stone, May 11, 2011 9:30 AM ET

They weren't murderers or anything; they had merely stolen more money than most people can rationally conceive of, from their own customers, in a few blinks of an eye. But then they went one step further. They came to Washington, took an oath before Congress, and lied about it.

Thanks to an extraordinary investigative effort by a Senate subcommittee that unilaterally decided to take up the burden the criminal justice system has repeatedly refused to shoulder, we now know exactly what Goldman Sachs executives like Lloyd Blankfein and Daniel Sparks lied about. We know exactly how they and other top Goldman executives, including David Viniar and Thomas Montag, defrauded their clients. America has been waiting for a case to bring against Wall Street. Here it is, and the evidence has been gift-wrapped and left at the doorstep of federal prosecutors, evidence that doesn't leave much doubt: Goldman Sachs should stand trial.

The great and powerful Oz of Wall Street was not the only target of Wall Street and the Financial Crisis: Anatomy of a Financial Collapse, the 650-page report just released by the Senate Subcommittee on Investigations, chaired by Democrat Carl Levin of Michigan, alongside Republican Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. Their unusually scathing bipartisan report also includes case studies of Washington Mutual and Deutsche Bank, providing a panoramic portrait of a bubble era that produced the most destructive crime spree in our history — "a million fraud cases a year" is how one former regulator puts it. But the mountain of evidence collected against Goldman by Levin's small, 15-desk office of investigators — details of gross, baldfaced fraud delivered up in such quantities as to almost serve as a kind of sarcastic challenge to the curiously impassive Justice Department — stands as the most important symbol of Wall Street's aristocratic impunity and prosecutorial immunity produced since the crash of 2008.

To date, there has been only one successful prosecution of a financial big fish from the mortgage bubble, and that was Lee Farkas, a Florida lender who was just convicted on a smorgasbord of fraud charges and now faces life in prison. But Farkas, sadly, is just an exception proving the rule: Like Bernie Madoff, his comically excessive crime spree (which involved such lunacies as kiting checks to his own bank and selling loans that didn't exist) was almost completely unconnected to the systematic corruption that led to the crisis. What's more, many of the earlier criminals in the chain of corruption — from subprime lenders like Countrywide, who herded old ladies and ghetto families into bad loans, to rapacious banks like Washington Mutual, who pawned off fraudulent mortgages on investors — wound up going belly up, sunk by their own greed.

CONTINUED...

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-people-vs-goldman-sachs-20110511

As gangsters pay those who write the laws, we live in the Gangster Era.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
15. S.E.C. Case Stands Out Because It Stands Alone
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:28 AM
Jun 2014

By LOUISE STORY and GRETCHEN MORGENSON
The New York Times, May 31, 2011

EXCERPT...

The S.E.C. focused in the complaint on disclosures in the marketing of Abacus, saying that the sales documents had failed to tell investors that the deal was devised with the help of John A. Paulson, the billionaire hedge fund manager, who was not named in the case. Mr. (John) Paulson’s firm suggested that the deal be linked to mortgages for which he expected a high rate of default, the S.E.C. said; when that came to pass, the bets he placed against the securities proved very profitable for him. But investors on the other side lost more than $1 billion, according to the S.E.C.

SNIP...

In addition, the Senate said that two Goldman employees, Deeb Salem and David Swenson, tried to manipulate prices of securities used to bet against mortgages. Both tried to help Goldman pile on larger bets against the mortgage market, and they wanted to be able to buy such negative bets more cheaply, the report said. Goldman, as a broker, was able to affect prices in the market through the bids and offers it gave out.

Mr. Swenson wrote in May 2007 that the bank should try to “start killing” prices on certain positions so that Goldman would be able to “pick some high quality stuff,” according to the Senate report. The strategy, Mr. Swenson wrote, would “have people totally demoralized.” The pair were unsuccessful in their attempt, and both denied making it to the Senate committee. Mr. van Praag said last week that the report had no evidence of manipulation.

Still, the Senate report said that “trading with the intent to manipulate market prices, even if unsuccessful, is a violation of the federal securities laws.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/01/business/01prosecute.html?pagewanted=all

I feel bad for him, too, Enthusiast. Like you, I feel worse for our nation and planet, and feel worst of all for what they did to the People.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
22. If Democrats want to build an election headwind they should choose to prosecute such players.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 01:50 PM
Jun 2014

Instant popularity.

The American people are not real fans of injustice.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
24. Guess the Top DEMs don't want that supermajority thing.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:05 PM
Jun 2014

If they did, they'd do what you said.

That the leadership sides with the rich turds on the other side of the aisle is evident in that they never use their powers to investigate the criminality.

All show. No consequences. No change. No progress.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
16. Why nothing seems amiss to the Ref...
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:37 AM
Jun 2014
Larry Summers: Goldman Sacked

Greg Palast, Monday, September 16, 2013

Joseph Stiglitz couldn't believe his ears. Here they were in the White House, with President Bill Clinton asking the chiefs of the US Treasury for guidance on the life and death of America's economy, when the Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Larry Summers turns to his boss, Secretary Robert Rubin, and says, "What would Goldman think of that?"

Huh?

Then, at another meeting, Summers said it again: What would Goldman think?

SNIP...

Loan Shark Larry

The deregulation disaster machinery is not done with mangling Americans. While not-for-profit credit unions, lenders of last resort for working people and the poor in the US, have been under legal and political attack, a new kind of banking operation has bubbled out of the minds of the grifters looking for a way to make loan-sharking legit.

One new outfit, for example, called "Lending Club," has figured out a way to collect fees for arranging loans charging as much as 29%. Lending Club claims it cannot and should not be regulated by the Federal Reserve or other banking police. The recent addition to its Board of Directors: Larry Summers.

If you want to know why Obama would choose such a grifter and gamer to head the Fed, you have to ask, Who picked Obama? Ten years ago, Barry Obama was a nothing, a State Senator from the South Side of Chicago.

But then, he got lucky. A local bank, Superior, was shut down by regulators for mortgage shenanigans ripping off Black folk. The bank's Chairwoman, Penny Pritzker was so angry at regulators, she decided to eliminate them: and that required a new President.

The billionaires connected Obama to Jamie Dimon of J.P. Morgan, but most importantly to Robert Rubin, former Treasury Secretary, but most important, former CEO of Goldman Sachs and mentor of Larry Summers. Without Rubin's blessing and overwhelming fundraising power, Obama would still be arguing over zoning on Halsted Street.

CONTINUED...

http://www.gregpalast.com/larry-summers-goldman-sacked/

More than a few people I celebrated Obama's victory with in 2008 lost their jobs and soon after their homes. We felt, ah, short changed.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
17. Short changed? You're being kind.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:42 AM
Jun 2014

We are in deep trouble because there needs to be more attended to, to make
sure there is no longer the ability for them to scam us.

I enjoy your OP's..always informative.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
31. Bonus Guy Deeb Salem may be one of the big brains behind the toxic swaps.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 04:31 PM
Jun 2014

The pros from Wall Street would know better, but GoldmanSachs666.com reported in 2012:



"Banks and hedge funds will go to any lengths in order to make bigger and better returns. Now they are profiting again from the original crisis that they caused! Note that the article says that "Yields will be greater if forecasts for foreclosures, recoveries or refinancings among the underlying loans prove too pessimistic." In other words, more money will be made if recovery or refinancings are not carried out. (That maybe explains why foreclosed homes have not been properly refinanced through government policies.)"

SOURCE from an outstanding blog: http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2012/08/the-next-big-thing-for-goldman-sachs.html



Which does explain why Uncle Sam, at Tim Geithner's insistence, would only use a small fraction of the hundreds of billions allocated to help home owners.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
32. It's so awful..this is just one reason why voters get so overwhelmed..and that only speaks
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 05:39 PM
Jun 2014

to those who know!

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
20. Wouldn't you be upset if you were shorted $5MM?
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:56 AM
Jun 2014

Would you be upset if you were shorted $1,000? Why is it any different because of the size of the bonus?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
30. Truly outstanding idea, Initech! The next ''Big Thing'' from Goldman Sachs!
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 04:08 PM
Jun 2014
The Next Big Thing for Goldman Sachs Guy, Deeb Salem

GoldmanSachs666.com, Tuesday, August 7, 2012

A former Goldman Sachs trader, Deeb Salem, who helped to handle Goldman's bets against sub-prime mortgages that collapsed in 2007, and who tried to manipulate derivative prices tied to loans, is now helping a hedge fund reap further rewards from wagering on US home-loan bonds.

The effects of Goldman's guys on the economic system are like the proverbial stone thrown into a pond: the ripples of their influence on the economy just continue outwards forever.

Banks and hedge funds will go to any lengths in order to make bigger and better returns. Now they are profiting again from the original crisis that they caused! Note that the article says that "Yields will be greater if forecasts for foreclosures, recoveries or refinancings among the underlying loans prove too pessimistic." In other words, more money will be made if recovery or refinancings are not carried out. (That maybe explains why foreclosed homes have not been properly refinanced through government policies.)

[font color="red"]There is something inherently evil about a bank or hedge fund that creates more and more wealth for itself by taking advantage of the misfortunes of others![/font color]

One wonders what the hedge fund has in mind. Maybe it could buy up thousands of foreclosed upon houses and rent them. They could create higher and higher rents so that defaults will occur. CDOs based on rents could be sold to investors. Then the hedge fund could buy CDS in case of default and, wonder of wonders, we have another round of scams to contend with. Where will it all end?

GoldenTree Hires Goldman Sachs Trader Salem In Mortgage Push

By Jody Shenn - Bloomberg
. . . .

Subprime Securities
Returns on senior subprime securities from 2005 through 2007, the years that produced the most defaults, have averaged more than 26 percent this year, Barclays Plc index data show.

Salem joined Goldman Sachs in 2001, according to records maintained by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, which don’t show him involved in any regulatory actions, civil lawsuits, criminal matters or customer complaints.

During the mortgage meltdown in 2007, he was the bank’s lead trader of single-name credit-default swaps referencing residential-mortgage-backed securities, according to the 2011 report by the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

His group was “able to learn from our bad long position at the end of 2006 and layout the game plan to put on an enormous directional short,” Salem said in a 2007 self-evaluation excerpted in the report. “The results of that are obvious.”

‘Short Squeeze’
Company documents also showed Goldman Sachs traders led by Michael J. Swenson sought to encourage a “short squeeze” by putting artificially low prices on swaps that would gain in value as mortgage securities fell, the panel said. The idea, abandoned after market conditions worsened, was to drive holders to sell and help the bank buy at reduced prices, according to its report.


SOURCE w link to Original Article quoted: http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2012/08/the-next-big-thing-for-goldman-sachs.html

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
19. I'd be pretty pissed off too if I were shorted $5MM on a bonus
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 11:54 AM
Jun 2014

because of some comment I made three years earlier.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
26. True. What most angers me is that he's getting a bonus for GS FRAUD.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:38 PM
Jun 2014

Even more infuriating, Goldman Sachs was made whole by the US taxpayer in the bailout.

Timothy Geithner and AIG-Gate

The World’s Greatest Insurance Heist

by ELLEN BROWN
FEBRUARY 08, 2010
CounterPunch

EXCERPT...

Geithner has been under the House microscope for the decision of the New York Fed, made while he headed it, to buy out about $30 billion in credit default swaps (over-the-counter derivative insurance contracts) that AIG sold on toxic debt securities. The chief recipients of this payout were Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Societe Generale and Deutsche Bank. Goldman got $13 billion, roughly equivalent to its bonus pool for the first 9 months of 2009. Critics are calling the New York Fed’s decision a back-door bailout for the banks, which received 100 cents on the dollar for contracts that would have been worth far less had AIG been put through bankruptcy proceedings in the ordinary way. In a Bloomberg article provocatively titled “Secret Banking Cabal Emerges from AIG Shadows,” David Reilly writes:

(T)he New York Fed is a quasi-governmental institution that isn’t subject to citizen intrusions such as freedom of information requests, unlike the Federal Reserve. This impenetrability comes in handy since the bank is the preferred vehicle for many of the Fed’s bailout programs. It’s as though the New York Fed was a black-ops outfit for the nation’s central bank.

The beneficiaries of the New York Fed’s largesse got paid in full although they had agreed to take much less. In a November 2009 article titled “It’s Time to Fire Tim Geithner,” Dylan Ratigan wrote:

(L)ast November . . . New York Federal Reserve Governor Tim Geithner decided to deliver 100 cents on the dollar, in secret no less, to pay off the counter parties to the world’s largest (and still un-investigated) insurance fraud — AIG. This full payoff with taxpayer dollars was carried out by Geithner after AIG’s bank customers, such as Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank and Societe Generale, had already previously agreed to taking as little as 40 cents on the dollar. Even after the GM autoworkers, bondholders and vendors all received a government-enforced haircut on their contracts, he still had the audacity to claim the “sanctity of contracts” in the dealings with these companies like AIG.

Geithner testified that the Fed’s hands were tied and that the bank could not “selectively default on contractual obligations without courting collapse.” But if it was all on the up and up, why all the secrecy? The contention that the Fed had no choice is also belied by a recent holding in the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy, in which New York Bankruptcy Judge James Peck set aside the same type of investment contracts that Secretaries Paulson and Geithner repeatedly swore under oath had to be paid in full in the case of AIG. The judge declared that clauses in those contracts subordinating other claims to the holders’ claims were null and void in bankruptcy.
“And notice,” comments bank analyst Chris Whalen, “that the world has not ended when the holders of [derivative] contracts are treated like everyone else.” He calls the AIG bailout “a hideous political contrivance that ranks with the great acts of political corruption and thievery in the history of the United States.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/02/08/the-world-s-greatest-insurance-heist/

While Goldman got gold, my friends got kicked out of their homes. That made me angriest of all.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
28. Deeb Salem was noticed in Texas, back in '07...
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:50 PM
Jun 2014
Senate Says Goldman Sachs Tried To Manipulate Mbs Market

Shepherd, Smith, Edwards & Kantas

Goldman Sachs manipulated the subprime mortgage derivative market in 2007 for its own benefit, to the disadvantage of its clients, according to an article in Bloomberg which cites a U.S. Senate Report. According to the article, Goldman Sachs was reporting record earnings while Citigroup and Merrill Lynch were reporting huge losses on mortgage backed securities (MBS) in 2007, due to the fact that Goldman was making bets against MBS while acting as a market maker and selling them to clients. A Senate subcommittee found that Goldman placed their own needs and interests ahead of its clients by selling them poor quality investments it was betting against.

According to company documents, Goldman traders engineered a “short squeeze” by pricing credit default swaps (CDS) artificially low with the purpose of driving investors to panic to sell them to Goldman at those artificially low prices. A trader, Deeb Salem, was quoted as saying in a 2007 evaluation, “we began to encourage this squeeze, with plans of going very short again” and Salem’s supervisor urged traders to “cause maximum pain and have people totally demoralized.” The Senate Report revealed that Goldman immediately changed its CDS short evaluations after the squeeze and began increasing their value.

SOURCE: http://texas.stockbroker-fraud.com/lawyer-attorney-1749027.html
 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
25. Of course he cut corners.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:08 PM
Jun 2014

Hard to blame him with what they were paying him. He was pretty clear that an 8 mil bonus wasn't enough. Please think of the children.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
29. Ohhhh my.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 03:02 PM
Jun 2014

These people live in a pretty fucked up world. Even then, moms are important. lol. Had to explain to his mom. Can't believe I read that. Guy is only 35 years old. WTF.

Thanks for the link. Made me laugh and was terrifying at the same time.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
34. I hope this guy doesn't get jumped from the top of a tall bank. He's the Bankster Rosetta Stone.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:16 PM
Jun 2014

From 2012:



GoldenTree Hires Goldman Sachs Trader Salem In Mortgage Push

By Jody Shenn - Bloomberg
. . . .

Subprime Securities

Returns on senior subprime securities from 2005 through 2007, the years that produced the most defaults, have averaged more than 26 percent this year, Barclays Plc index data show.

Salem joined Goldman Sachs in 2001, according to records maintained by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, which don’t show him involved in any regulatory actions, civil lawsuits, criminal matters or customer complaints.

During the mortgage meltdown in 2007, he was the bank’s lead trader of single-name credit-default swaps referencing residential-mortgage-backed securities, according to the 2011 report by the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

His group was “able to learn from our bad long position at the end of 2006 and layout the game plan to put on an enormous directional short,” Salem said in a 2007 self-evaluation excerpted in the report. “The results of that are obvious.”

‘Short Squeeze’

Company documents also showed Goldman Sachs traders led by Michael J. Swenson sought to encourage a “short squeeze” by putting artificially low prices on swaps that would gain in value as mortgage securities fell, the panel said. The idea, abandoned after market conditions worsened, was to drive holders to sell and help the bank buy at reduced prices, according to its report.

GoldmanSachs666.com



Seeing how this and many other areas worth investigating are spelled out by Mr Deeb Salem and his colleagues, the FBI surely will soon apprehend the thieves and return the loot. Right?
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