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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums#44
Thank you Mr President.
**********************************
Obama as Transformational President
Here he is trying to change the way we see our government.
But we also believe in something called citizenship — citizenship, a word at the very heart of our founding, a word at the very essence of our democracy, the idea that this country only works when we accept certain obligations to one another and to future generations...
We, the people — recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which asks only, what's in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense.
As citizens, we understand that America is not about what can be done for us. It's about what can be done by us, together through the hard and frustrating but necessary work of self-government. That's what we believe.
Read More: http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2012/09/obama-as-transformational-president.html
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MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)It'll be great.
(For the bankers.)
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)for a 16 year old law? I've excerpted the most telling posts, the entire thread is full of TPP fail.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024550863
Star Member MannyGoldstein (27,383 posts)
27. First off, you agree that 1. US law would need to be changed to abide by the TPP
2. that this change will lengthen copyright protection to as long as 120 years for corporations.
3. individuals will have less protection than corporations.
So we can agree that my "right wing talking point", as you characterized it, is correct. Where we disagree is that you believe that 1-3 above are fine. And you're a Democrat?
You can have this sig too! Info here. @massliberal
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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #27)
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:31 PM
Star Member msanthrope (25,037 posts)
37. Manny...you are utterly incorrect in point 1. The fallacious point 1 makes points 2&3 moot.
To address your points:
1) CETA passed 16 years ago. Agreed with Justice Ginsburg when it was upheld.
2) see point 1. Been the law for 16 years now, the sky hasn't fallen.
3) see point 2.
Your "right wing talking point" of blaming President Obama for a piece of legislation written and sponsored by a Republican 16 years ago is noted.
For your reading pleasure...
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=01-618
I haven't changed my avatar once in my 12 years of being on this site. Until now. It's time.
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Manny, I look forward to your erudite posts on this matter.
TO THE JURY---it is not against the TOS to quote old threads---admin has given us a helpful search box to do so.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)of your "rule" that you don't click on links unless a summary is provided first?
Which ended our exchange?
I remember *that* one.
What of it? Are you wondering if I've gone into the summary-providing business?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)asking me to comment on it.
I'm not your monkey, Manny. If you want my commentary, then you'll show me the respect of providing an excerpt rather than wasting my time.
As always, I'll be happy to answer your questions if you post them.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Or perhaps it's easier to make up odd rules in order to avoid losing an argument.
LOL.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Good point. A link introduced by a summary could not be a rickroll.
Counselor, looks like you've prevailed.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)you really want me to look at something.....then stop being coy and just post it, along with the question you want me to answer.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)Kudos for the two of you! You win the prize of slamming this President in the first two posts.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)sheshe2
(83,654 posts)As much as you might prefer that, I will post it in GD and on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND!
Actually, I find them amusing. Manny especially, he is after all a self described ex Republican.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)sheshe2
(83,654 posts)How about those idols on DU? GG and ES! Rock Stars!
Your input?
Whisp
(24,096 posts)[URL=
.html][IMG]
[/IMG][/URL]
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)sheshe2
(83,654 posts)Give me a fricking break Rhett...
Yours were 
Whisp
(24,096 posts)[URL=
.html][IMG]
[/IMG][/URL]
Thank you for stopping in Whisp!
I thought I was alone with the GG/ES worshippers! Their American Idol~
We like the President and they worship Eddie!
love your pic!
Whisp
(24,096 posts)don't it?
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)sheshe2
(83,654 posts)
WOW bahrbearian! What a condescending comment to a woman. Trying to kneecap her because she is a woman? She is a dead head Barbie Doll?
A disgusting misogynistic statement. You should be ashamed.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)sheshe2
(83,654 posts)You were the one that called Whisp Caridou Barbie. You remember that do you not?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025137050#post35
LOL!!! And you call me lame...
Cha
(296,848 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)The lack of respect for the office from this camp is deplorable.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)You may love the comfort of the promise of security they offer for the mere price of your liberties and freedoms, I dont.
Reality is we have a NSA/CIA organization that seems more powerful than the president. That's a concern to me. You can climb back into your denial bubble and tell us how sweet the President is. "Look he is petting Bo. How sweet." In the mean time the NSA/CIA is making profiles on all Americans. It violates the Constitution but you dont care, because the Pres has a nice smile.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)He does Stand up to liberals though. He's transformative alright. He transformed the democratic party into the republican party.
You went there.
You stated that Our Democratically Elected President Times Two has transformed this democratic party into the republican party???!!!! ARE YOU FRICKING SERIOUS???!!@!!
Gotta say Doctor_J you are on the wrong site.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)very politically liberal. Especially when one worships Gen Clapper. Pres Obama didnt make the Democratic Party into the Republican Party but he did a lot to make it into the Conservative Party. Almost all of his appointees are conservatives. That's not ok with me. I dont want Gen Clapper running the presidency. I dont want Wall Fracking Street running the presidency. I am guessing that what is important to you is his nice smile, his nice family and nice dog. Well Dorthy we aint in Camelot any more.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)#1. I would love to know your opinion of the unrequited love affair with GG and ES here. They are worshiped here. They are adored. They are believed without question. Why is that?
#2. Well Rhett...if you don't want all those conservative ex GOPers running around saying things then why the hell do you want Warren for President? She is an ex Republican. You trust her yet not the others? Don't get me wrong. I voted for her in Mass. She is one hell of a Senator and will make history. I support her unequivocally. She will make history in the Senate.
#3. I already responded to your condescending worship crap. And that's all it is. Crap!. Look in the mirror..all your buddies sigh over GG and ES and they have done nothing for
this country. The President has.
#4. Who the hell worships Clapper? Link please.
#5.
Your statement...
Yup this conservative President passed..
DODT DOMA EQUALPAY FOR EQUAL WORK OBAMACARE VAWW ...so much more and every conservative was there to support him...
Got it!
cali
(114,904 posts)I've been very critical of GG- for years. And I think the situation with ES is a complex one and have written quite a bit about that.
I do think President Obama's ties with corporatatism as demonstrated with the TPP, TTIP, such appointments as Penny P., etc, are very problematical- as his broken promise to renegotiate NAFTA which he was quite critical of during his first run.
Now how about the TPP and your adored President's enthusiastic and determined support for it? What do you think of that?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Same will the political outrage du jour over and over when it comes to Pres. Obama....none have panned out so far...Negotiations are hard...
Oh and we "adore" him because he IS the TWICE elected by MAJORITY votes Democratic President and this IS DEMOCRATIC Underground.....
You were saying?
cali
(114,904 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)It hasn't yet happened so don't count your chickens before they are hatched...'li
pscot
(21,024 posts)You don't really want to go there.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I'm just curious, yes or no. If no, why?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You are not the arbitor of what is or isn't Liberal.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)Yes NSA is an issue that needs to be dealt with. So go bash congress for dropping the ball. I have far more concerns than NSA. That seems to be the only one that you are concerned with.
Hey, where do you stand on the GOP targeting women? Hmm? Do you care about our rights? Our protections under the law? Our basic healthcare that is being taken away. Where do you stand on this topic?
Where do you stand on LGBT rights? How about civil rights for our POC here? Where do YOU stand on any issue other than NSA?
Do not condescend to me by saying "
You are in the denial bubble not I. Your focus is incredibly narrow. You are a one issue person. You want what you want and to hell with the rest of us!
You lost the whole point of what I posted. Not that I am surprised.
As citizens, we understand that America is not about what can be done for us. It's about what can be done by us, together through the hard and frustrating but necessary work of self-government. That's what we believe.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I dont like it one bit when the NSA/CIA run roughshod over the country, and our President seems helpless to stop them. I dont like it when Wall Fracking Street runs roughshod over our country and the President seems helpless to stop them. You might say that we've made some headway in the areas of social issues and I will agree. But they can evaporate in a heartbeat if we lose the ability to elect responsible people.
I think it's important to fight for our freedoms and liberties and some thing I should sit down and shut up.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)I myself will never narrowly focus on an issue. There are so many issues out there that concern me and hurt my soul. I will stand for those issues time and time again. I won't say them all again, I have posted them here already. However NSA is not at the top of my list. Peoples well being is.
You all laugh and ridicule the BOG, yet you have no clue who we are.That makes you a very narrow minded person.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Libertarian Underground is -----thataway---->
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I also support OWS, protestors and whistle-blowers. I support universal single-payer health insurance. I dont support the TPP, fracking and the XL Pipeline. I support LGBT rights, raising the minimum wage, and unions. I dont support the NSA/CIA Uber Alles Cabal.
What do you stand for?
grasswire
(50,130 posts)A stand for the Constitution trumps everything else. Solidarity.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)embraces Conservatives like Gen Clapper that clearly want to violate the Constitution. But you will forgive him because you like his dog. There are two sides to this class war, the Oligarchs and We The People. Gen Clapper isnt on the side of We The People.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)Yes before you say it. When you accuse one you accuse the other.
And stop the crap about the dog. You try to derail what I say by bringing up pictures that I have posted. You try to demean me and basically say I am an air head. No thoughts. No depth. A stupid women that can be brushed aside. Not going to work here.
You and your buddies can take a hike, you are not going to push me around.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I had no idea you published photos of Bo. I was making a point that some here are so taken by the personality that they completely overlook encroachments on our liberties and freedoms.
And your last sentence is pure projection. I dont use alert/lock/hide/ban/ridicule to try to silence those that dont agree with me. Those that are alert happy are not "my" buddies.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)If the issue is so cut and dried and a slam dunk....wouldn't THEY want to smear Pres. Obama with that?
grasswire
(50,130 posts)But....I thought that Obama had nothing to do with unconstitutional surveillance overreach?
grasswire
(50,130 posts)....and General Clapper replies that Obama had done his bidding already.
Very strange and ominous.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)want me to post the thread again? I will if you dispute it again.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)is that they support whatever Pres Obama supports. And yet they have the audacity to call themselves liberals. They are conservative authoritarians.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)You were asked repeatedly but denied it.
Now we know that you are suspicious of people in this 'group'. Hosts are supposed to be neutral, or appear to be. Some apparently pre-judge just by what 'group' they decide to place people in and rule according to biases.
hmm, doesn't sound right to me.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)sheshe2
(83,654 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)that you continue to try to distort was that hosts shouldnt let the number of alerts influence their decision. It isnt a voting method. Either the OP violates the SOP or it doesnt. It seems to me that after the first alert or two further alerts might be used to try to "strongly encourage" hosts to change their decision and I was telling another host not to be "strongly encouraged" to change their decision. Badgering hosts to promote a particular world view is not cool.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)You have pre-conceived ideas about 'groups' of people here and base your judgements on that. The proof is in writing here and in the F&G forum.
Thankfully most hosts for GD who do have strong opinions care enough to put their personal biases aside and treat matters professionally.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)majority. But you go ahead and disparage me all you want. I have come to expect that from some here that are more interested in cleansing DU than actually discussing issues. By the way, how do you like Arnie Duncan's comment against the teacher's union? You do support unions dont you?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Because hating slurs is some sort of nefarious plot to put us all under corporate rule. Yup.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:52 PM - Edit history (1)
your own mind. Sad no other GD host set you straight. See post 49 and stop trying to deny it. You admit it was wrong and apologized, but I was correct in assuming you only did that to make this embarrassment go away. It will not.
You want to end NSA list making, but engage in it yourself?
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
1. GDH - I posted in that thread so no vote from me.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:48 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
2. Kicking... open to NAGDH input since it seems to be a light GDH night.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #2)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:55 PM
greatauntoftriplets (139,682 posts)
4. Frankly, it's a question he should ask Skinner.
And that's all I'm going to say, just wanted to help out even a little bit. Good luck with this.
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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #4)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:57 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
5. Thanks!
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #5)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:58 PM
greatauntoftriplets (139,682 posts)
6. You're welcome!
Bedtime for me.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:52 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
3. Got a pass from a jury, just FYI not related to our decision.
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Let's Keep Score Here... Grasswire Just Got A Second Strike...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035784
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This is ridiculous. Meta is dead and GD is not this person's individual forum to endlessly complain about any perceived "slights" he feels have been bestowed. Completely inappropriate for this forum
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:48 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I should hide because, META. but 50% of GD is META now it seems. I am not willing to hide this META unless all META gets hidden.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Baaaaaaaah!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: alerter can go suck eggs. turning alertds into meta is better.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #3)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:41 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
18. Whining about DU is an SOP violation and that is a host decision.
Juries are not responsible for hiding SOP violations. But we are responsible for locking them.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:59 PM
Warren Stupidity (37,298 posts)
7. gdh leave wsc
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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #7)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:00 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
8. Thanks.
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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #7)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
34. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #34)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:49 AM
Warren Stupidity (37,298 posts)
121. Well I replied before I saw the nonsense that happened here.
Don't lock threads with no consensus. Doing so causes hosting to be painful. Please stop.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:05 PM
X_Digger (15,433 posts)
9. GDH- leaning lock, but WSC.
It is meta bullshit, but meta has been getting a pass recently.
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Response to X_Digger (Reply #9)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:09 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
11. Thanks.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:05 PM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
10. GDH - Leave.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #10)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:09 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
12. Thanks.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #10)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
33. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:10 PM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
13. Leave. n/t
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Response to Autumn (Reply #13)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:58 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
32. Can can you provide a strong rationale for ignoring the GD SOP?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #32)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:46 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
119. Is that required? A new rule perhaps?Can you provide a strong rationale
for locking posts you don't like and ignoring the votes of GD hosts to side with non GD hosts who just so happen to be the alerters?
Many hosts have put leave only in the subject line. And can you be anymore fucking rude? Since when do you get to put up new rules?
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:31 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
14. Whining about jury decisions is not a jury issue, it's SOP and this should be locked.
GD hosts have a very narrowly defined jurisdiction and this is one of the few things is in it. There's no excuse for not locking. But considering the players I'm not going to waste the effort of going rogue and then dealing with the stupid shite that would inevitably follow. If GD hosts want to screw around instead of doing their rather elementary and easy job, fine, screw around.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #14)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:40 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
17. Not currently a GD host, but I agree with you
"Whining about DU" is clearly prohibited in the GD SoP.
Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:37 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
15. Another alert:
Author: WillyT
Let's Keep Score Here... Grasswire Just Got A Second Strike...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025035784
Alerted by berni_mccoy: Whining about DU
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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #15)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:39 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
16. Hoo boy. This one needed to be locked up an hour ago.
Thanks for bringing this alert in Rhiannon as I know you're not a GD host.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #16)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:42 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
19. No, I'm not at the moment, but GD alerts are the only ones on the list right now...
And most of them are about this particular thread.
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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #19)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:45 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
20. 5 in just over an hour.
I think we're creating a problem, not solving a problem.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #20)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:47 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
21. The way I look at this, DUers have spoken
Just my two-cents...
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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #21)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:42 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
44. The DU'ers have spoken? Those DU'ers are not hosts. The hosts voted to leave.
All of the alerters are in the same Group. They can get 10 more alerts if they want. It isnt about how many alerts there are it's up to the hosts.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:45 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
47. Yup.
Last edited Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:45 AM - Edit history (1)
ETA: So I feel like I have to qualify my statement before I get called out on something I didn't mean. I just meant that regardless of the fact that there are "x" alerts it doesn't indicate whether the DU "community" feels a certain way about a thread, IMO. That is all.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:51 AM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
50. My point is that if there are more than one or two alerts
The hosts should take that into consideration and reevaluate. But it's up to you...
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:21 AM
Number23 (16,246 posts)
83. "All of the alerters are in the same Group."
And this, better than ANYTHING anyone else could have typed, is the crux of the host problem right here.
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Response to Number23 (Reply #83)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:46 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
88. you said it right there.
my jar dropped when I saw that. five alerts is nothing if you don't like the DUers, I guess. that would be the group right there.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #88)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:01 AM
Number23 (16,246 posts)
94. "five alerts is nothing if you don't like the DUers" You nailed it
As many times as you and I have bumped heads over the years, I guess we're in the "same group" because rhett o rick doesn't like us. Which is perfectly fine with me, in all honesty, but that certainly does make one question his "fitness for duty".
That person is far too preoccupied with keeping up with what "group" is doing what instead of enforcing the SOP of the forum. We all know he's by no means alone in that regard, but it's still pretty amazing to see out in the open.
Edit: And actually it was SIX alerts by long time DUers that all need to be ignored, apparently.
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Response to Number23 (Reply #94)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:09 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
97. I know, I just looked at the group and said WHUT?
I can't remember any agreeable conversations with any of them except for Nikki, actually. Wow. I feel like I've really neglected Zappaman now, ha ha.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #97)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 06:48 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
116. What should we call our "Group"? Pussy is already taken.
BTW, I'll play the triangle. I hope you can sing.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #88)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:49 AM
Whisp (23,770 posts)
120. Looks like List Making to me.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:50 AM
zappaman (11,770 posts)
90. What group is that Rick?
What group am I in?
Is there a "let's ignore their alerts" group as well as whatever group you are blathering about?
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Response to zappaman (Reply #90)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:58 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
93. Have we ever spoken before?
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 07:15 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
117. Are you suggesting that there was a coordinated effort to alert on this one stupid, meta OP?
Or any? That's both wrong and fucking ridiculous. It was a disruptive meta post. I stand by that. Alone or with a fucking "group".
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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #117)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:08 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
142. Apparently we have hosts who believe alerting is so beyond the pale that
The imagine it must be personal? A bit if projecting there!
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #142)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:10 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
143. This place is a fucking joke. A few hosts are FREAKING THE FUCK OUT that they are being asked to
justify their decision, but completely ok with the fact that another LITERALLY said they should disregard the alerters.
I am really getting sick of one or two hosts treating non-(current GD)hosts like we're pieces of shit who should be ignored. Hey, newsflash, we're members of this community, too.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #142)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:12 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
144. I'm really not comfortable with GD hosts being attacked like this....
I don't think it's helpful at all...
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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #144)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:13 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
145. How about alerters being 'attacked', is that cool?
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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #145)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:15 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
147. Even if they had been, that doesn't justify attacking GD hosts n/t
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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #147)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:18 AM
PeaceNikki (21,150 posts)
148. She's not 'attacking', she's voicing anger about being "grouped" and dismissed.
Follow the subthread you're in.
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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #148)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:19 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
149. Both of you are attacking the hosts and making things much harder in here than they need to be n/t
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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #147)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:19 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
150. The alerters were attacked and accused of nefarious BS...
And if discussing it reads as an attack on any one- maybe it's because that was an incredibly shitty and biased thing to say.
No reflection on anyone acting in good faith here.
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Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #15)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:52 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
23. Added it to the OP, thanks!
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #23)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:53 PM
Rhiannon12866 (61,576 posts)
25. No worries!
Slow evening... *fingers crossed*
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:50 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
22. Does anyone object to a lock, and if so, can you give a strong rationale why we should ignore SOP
not to mention Skinner's clear instructions and leave this thread open?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:52 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
24. You have two GDH that voted leave so you'd need to TB with them.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #24)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:54 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
27. I don't see any rationale for leaving this open.
Do you?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #27)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:55 PM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
28. As I said upthread I'm not going to vote on this one.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
30. I will politely ask all three leavers for their reasons.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #28)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:59 PM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
35. I have politely asked all three leavers for their reasons. nt
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #35)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:05 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
38. Wonderful.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:57 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
52. We dont have to get you to approve our reasons to leave. We are supposed to leave threads open
unless there is a CLEAR CONSENSUS TO LOCK. There is no such consensus. And dont let non-hosts "strongly encourage" you do lock something when there is not a consensus. You should not be locking threads unilaterally.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #52)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:02 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
56. Baloney. You should SHARE your reasons, but you all haven't.
You shouldn't be surprised that a Host's vote with no reasoning behind it has no sway. If you care so much about a particular vote, take the time and effort to share your reasoning. That's how the community of Hosts builds consensus, not by "phoned in", effortless votes.
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Response to greyl (Reply #56)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:11 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
81. It isn't baloney by a long shot.
Group consensus is group consensus and when it is close, Skinner himself said to leave it.
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Response to greyl (Reply #56)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:38 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
127. New rule? Made by who? Since when is that an issue?
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #22)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:23 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
112. NaGDH, but I saw a good point made in the OP.
I lurk more than post these days, but I felt strongly enough about the discussion to participate in it. So did many others. I can understand why some hosts would vote to leave it.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:53 PM
greyl (16,995 posts)
26. Am I wrong, or
did the 3 Leave voters not include an ounce of reasoning behind their vote?
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Response to greyl (Reply #26)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
31. Nope, "the 3 Leave voters not include an ounce of reasoning behind their vote", again.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #31)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:00 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
36. If it were up to me, I'd ignore their votes
and let them work on gathering the required reasoning needed for their complaint to Admin to be sympathized with.
(Not a GD Host)
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Response to greyl (Reply #36)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:04 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
37. yeah, I know they think racism and sexist crap is not in their purview, but this is clearly a
violation. I guess Willie is special. This is just making GD worse, Grassswire posted some real RW crap and we have a thread of people treating her like Joan of Arc or a little lost lamb. Can't wait to see what they'll be emboldened to post next.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #37)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:45 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
114. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What does the OP have to do with "racism & sexist crap"?
Or to the post to which you were responding? That's coming from left-field, as though some prior hurts of yours are coming into play where they shouldn't be.
That's some commentary about grasswire where it doesn't belong, too. Your commitment to "no Meta threads" isn't looking very strong.
It's sad to see the hosts forum becoming an offshoot of the Meta forum.
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Response to pacalo (Reply #114)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:51 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
137. It's about inconsistency.
What did I say about Grasswire other than she posted RW crap? She/ he did that.
No speculation why on my part.
I commented on those around her/ him acting as if getting a thread locked made them a martyr for getting a locked post- w/ RW crap. No one is a martyr here for having a locked post, it happens. And it should happen if it's dodgy RW bullshit. That is why you all got so many alerts. I'm sure the RW crap got juried for the same reason, because of where we are.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #37)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:05 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
125. What disgusting smears against Willy and Grasswire.
Grasswire apologized, had no idea it was a RW site, you should be ashamed of yourself.
"yeah, I know they think racism and sexist crap is not in their purview, but this is clearly a violation. I guess Willie is special. This is just making GD worse, Grassswire posted some real RW crap and we have a thread of people treating her like Joan of Arc or a little lost lamb. Can't wait to see what they'll be emboldened to post next".
That is a personal attack against two DUers by a so called host in a forum where neither of them have the opportunity to defend themselves against your vile bullshit.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #125)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:38 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
135. She did post RW crap, it's not a smear- it's reality.
Accidental or not- I didn't speculate. No insult there. It happened, was corrected and not the end of the world. I said the same thing to Grasswire's face. Know a bit about your sources. It's not hard.
Hosts speculating WHY many different DUers alerted are some kind of a group? That was a smear, unfounded, and shows bias against six good DUers. Do they not matter?
It is now clear that some hosts are looking at the people, and not the posts when deciding how to vote. They explain this here while avoiding discussion of the OP.
That explains a lot if the inconsistency here.
Poor Achshmid asking for other hosts to weigh in. They didn't realize that's only welcome theoretically.
I never did try and "vote", but said many times I thought it was a bad lock as handled. But it should have been a clear easy lock. It's pretty cut and dry.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #135)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:41 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
136. She didn't know, I wouldn't have known that was a RW site.
Talking trash about DUers in the host form is not cool. Look in a mirror lady you have been looking at the people for quite a while now when you want a post locked.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #136)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:55 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
138. Untrue. I am completely unfamiliar with Grass and never speculated- but clearly their post was a
Problem. That's not talking trash- it's exactly what hosts are supposed to be discussing- instead of talking trash about the alerters. Group my ass.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #138)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:56 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
139. She apologized but that's not good enough for you. We discuss alerted posts, not the posters.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #139)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:02 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
140. A lock is good enough for RW crap, and I hold no animus toward them.
But you seem okay with trashing the alerters as was done here. No comment on that bit of bias?
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #140)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:07 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
141. Then there should be a list of acceptable sites. Y'all ought to get right on that.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #141)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 10:14 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
146. News busters has an anti- liberal subheading under the name...
You can look at the "editors picks" to get a feel for it where a place is at, editorially.
It's a good lesson for Grasswire, anyway.
Are you really thinking any old RW crap should stay if it's an accident or was posted by someone the hosts like and want to protect? That seems to be the message I'm getting. After all this, I have no idea why anyone would leave that crap in GD. None.
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Response to greyl (Reply #36)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:37 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
42. GDH - So you are not a GD Host and you are pushing a host to ignore other host's votes.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #42)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:04 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
58. That fact that you are pulling rank instead of offering reasoning,
leads me to believe you are occupying space in a Host slot rather than using it as it was intended.
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Response to greyl (Reply #58)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:06 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
59. If claiming that non-hosts dont have a vote is "pulling rank" then I am guilty. I resent your
pressure to try to get me to see things your way.
I voted to leave and I dont owe you an explanation.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #59)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:13 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
63. Nobody is arguing that non-GD Hosts have a vote.
You are arguing that the opinion of non-GD Hosts offered here in this decision making discussion should be ignored.
I say good luck trying to get people to ignore good reasoning from other DU Hosts.
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Response to greyl (Reply #63)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:19 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
65. I didn't try and vote, we just discussed our opinions calmly. for this I am accused of being part of
some group or another. LOL. Ridiculous.
" I try to lock those threads that violate the SOP, period. If one gets left inappropriately, we cant just let the retaliatory OP stand if it violates the SOP. " -
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #65)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:26 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
68. I've just lost my patience with Hosts who think all they're supposed to do is vote, not think.
When Hosting on DU3 was new, it was different. But after seeing a pattern of Hosts voting Leave while offering little reason for doing so, and when at least one of them goes so far as to say they'll usually vote Leave regardless of whether the Post violates the SOP, I think it's impossible for other Hosts not to learn from that and adjust their adjudicating appropriately.
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Response to greyl (Reply #68)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:32 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
71. yeah, as one said- we usually leave everything, so why not leave everything, LOL.
And that's the best reason they have for this crap? It's pretty funny.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #71)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:50 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
73. You should sign up for GD if you feel you could make a positive impact.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #73)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:57 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
75. not sure how one could these days- with fellow hosts accusing others of bias, yet offering no
rationale for their decisions of allow the SOP to be explictly violated. I hosted before, and it was different. I think they'll always be one head poppin gin with a "leave!!- no consensus possible", now that people realize that is a thing they can do. Always had hosts who did not want to enforce the SOP, but they used to be expected to explain why.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #75)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:06 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
79. He busted a thread that had no concensus
And went off on his own to lock it. That's bullshit.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #79)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:14 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
82. I don't agree with that, nor do I agree on voting to totally disregard the SOP w/ no explaination
The thread was pretty clearly whining about DU, which is just about the only thing that actually does get locked around here, these days.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #82)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:28 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
86. You don't go off on your own
and lock a thread without consensus, and it was not established.
Good bad or indifferent, rules are in place for a reason.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #86)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:31 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
87. I already agreed with that?
But, rules are completely different for some posters than others, and it has always been that way to some extent.
I remember the first day I hosted, someone said they always ignore X persons alerts. And someone else said, oh they alwys have broken that rule, so we can't enforce it. It was terribly confusing!
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Response to greyl (Reply #58)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:05 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
110. "Pulling rank" belongs to the host who locked without consensus.
Skinner has stated that the hosts are, in effect, free to use their own judgment. Like the jury system, you get the luck of the draw in the different mindsets who serve as a team at any given phase DU is going through at the time.
You sound angry, to be frank.
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Response to greyl (Reply #36)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 04:43 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
109. NaGDH: The hosts who voted to leave aren't the ones who need to address ATA.
The ones who are not able to get past opposing hosting opinions are the ones complaining here. There was no consensus to lock this thread.
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Response to greyl (Reply #26)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 09:17 AM
Bobbie Jo (9,525 posts)
134. Well, one did
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1243&pid=89569
I suspect this is why others didn't feel the to explain.
Seems pretty clear to me, apparently the wrong "group" alerted.
Nope, no bias at work here. Totally above board and a good faith effort.
The inadvertent honesty is kinda interesting, no?
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:57 PM
itsrobert (10,393 posts)
29. GDH - Lock
Meta - Whining about DU
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:08 AM
ucrdem (3,825 posts)
39. It is locked.
Here is the lock message:
Locking. Complaining about jury decisions violates the GD Statement of Purpose.
It's one of only a few things that does:
Statement of Purpose: Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.
Thanks for understanding.
...........................................................
Agschmid, I recommend that you self-delete the OP. I will take full responsibility for this decision. Complaints should be made in ATA. Thanks all and good night.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:10 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
40. I'll leave it open, thanks for the recommendation but I imagine...
there will be some further discussion here.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #40)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:12 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
41. Good Leave. nt
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:39 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
43. GDH - I am respectfully requesting that you unlock this. Remember those here that
are not GD Hosts DONT GET TO VOTE. I am a strong leave. You and the non-hosts dont get to decide if my Leave is worthy.
Please unlock this now.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #43)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:42 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
45. I'm just popping in with a lock vote and a question
I thought whining about hidden posts was something skinner had told us we should be locking. So why wouldn't this one fall into that category?
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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #45)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:11 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
62. I dont see this as whining. Sometimes we dont all agree, but some here cant handle that.
I am not referring to you Violet.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #62)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:56 AM
Violet_Crumble (32,238 posts)
74. That's fair enough. Fwiw I don't see it as disruptive meta
Not like the ones where someone calls for the nuking of another DUer. I'm not going to die in a ditch over it so I'm changing my vote to WSC.......
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #43)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:03 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
77. It's a leave
he just hauled off and locked it.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:43 AM
Hassin Bin Sober (10,894 posts)
46. You need to unlock this. You had no consensus.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:46 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
48. Yup.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:04 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
78. Exactly.
I have no idea who he thinks he that he can just swing in and lock threads without consensus, but that was a horrible lock. He needs to get kicked.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #46)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:13 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
111. Agree.
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Response to ucrdem (Reply #39)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:02 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
76. You locked without consensus
That is a no no.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:50 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
49. GDH - I see a vote of three Leaves and two locks. There is no consensus to lock. This is crazy.
Non-hosts are in here telling a host what to do. No one appointed ucrdem as the decider. He does not have the power to review other hosts reasons for their votes and decide whether they are valid or not.
Of course there are a bunch of alerts. They are all in the same "Group".
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:54 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
51. I could honestly care less who the alerters are... this lock was without any consensus from GDH.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #51)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:59 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
54. I only mentioned it because the number of alerters was being used as a reason to lock. It's not a
popularity contest. The non-hosts dont get to vote.
I agree that this was locked without a clear consensus.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #54)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:10 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
60. It's not a popularity contest- but you've given no one any reason to allow the SOP to be ignored
no one has. What is up with that?
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #60)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:17 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
64. Is that a required portion of our job?
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #64)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:22 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
66. I think if you want to leave something that CLEARLY violates the SOP, you owe your fellow hosts the
courtesy of why you want to make a special exemption for this violation.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #66)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:25 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
67. In this case I didn't actually vote, as I stated multiple times.
So no special exemption from me, I just am unhappy with how the lock happened. There were 3-ish leave votes and to me that does not mean we had arrived at consensus.
Anyways not going to beat a dead horse here. Hopefully this gets re-visited by the locking host, goodnight.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #67)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:30 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
69. I understand totally. Sad you invited other hosts opinions only to have us insulted and accused of
pushing anyone to do anything. You can't express an opinion these days without some pretending it's abusive or totolitarinism, LOL.
That no one could provide a rationale, is an interesting point.
(It was a those three you, and not a you you. - And NONE of it is personal)
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #69)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:31 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
70. Well they still might, who knows there is always tomorrow.
Reason or not I feel their voices were important.
Thanks, goodnight.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #54)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:07 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
80. It isn't a popularity contest
but some people want to make it one, and it is plain stupid to allow it to continue.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #80)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:22 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
84. It is about Willie being popular, yep. And maybe about people just hating any rules here at all.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #84)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:49 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
89. Locking a thread
without consensus is against the rules. Is that how you define "hating the rules"? Because I define them that way.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #89)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:54 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
91. I already agreed with you in that so many times, I moved on to discuss other rules
And how they don't see to apply to some posters, or matter to some hosts.
Not exactly a secret, and it appears it's always been that way.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #91)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:08 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
96. I didn't mean to run it into the ground
I do agree with you that it doesn't seem to apply to certain posters.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #96)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:18 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
99. I'm shocked I'm apparently in a group now?
What bullshit. Really embarrassing revelation about the "thinking" that goes on here.
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Response to bettyellen (Reply #99)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:21 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
101. ?
I am clueless as to this response. Are you sure it was intended for me ?
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Response to Aerows (Reply #101)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:24 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
102. I thought you'd have seen post 44. Apparently some DUers are better than others
According to hosts here.
Like I said, there have always been biased hosts.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:59 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
53. Some reasoning is persuasive.
Zero reasoning is not.
Zero reasoning is what the Leave votes offered.
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Response to greyl (Reply #53)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:01 AM
Agschmid (8,333 posts)
55. Are they even here right now?
If there is mixed consensus is it the right thing to do to lock a thread and then walk away? It's 1:01AM EST potentially the leave votes are in bed, I don't see any reason this had to be a rushed lock which is what it turned out to be.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #55)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:36 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
72. Half are here, counting you.
How long to wait for all the Leave votes to reply with some reasoning and rebuttal to all the Lock reasons given in the Alerts and Host replies here is a judgement call with a very fuzzy target.
I do think it may have bought some more time if the first objectors here to the Lock offered good reasons for Leaving it.
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Response to Agschmid (Reply #55)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 08:26 AM
Autumn (16,209 posts)
126. It was my Son in Laws birthday BBQ. I looked in a few times and saw this one and said I was a leave.
as I did on the taterguy alert. I was unaware we had new administrators who are making the rules now.
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Response to greyl (Reply #53)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:03 AM
rhett o rick (36,391 posts)
57. I certainly agree that reasoning is persuasive. But there is no requirement for hosts to justify
their votes. Posts are to be left open unless there is a clear consensus to lock. If three host vote to leave, that's enough to indicate that there is not a clear consensus. To pretend that our votes dont count because you dont like our reasoning is crap. I was at dinner when ucrdem unilaterally decided to lock, based on pressure from non-hosts. That's bullcrap.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #57)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 01:10 AM
greyl (16,995 posts)
61. I said "some" reasoning,
implying that there is other reasoning that is not persuasive. I didn't mean to say "an amount of" reasoning is persuasive, because some reasoning out there is lousy. Just because it's offered as reasoning, doesn't mean it's worth a damn, iow.
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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #49)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 05:35 AM
pacalo (23,252 posts)
113. Your post here is what moved me to join in on this thread to give it some balance.
Non-hosts are in here telling a host what to do.
I'm a non-host who believes there was no consensus to lock this OP.
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Response to Agschmid (Original post)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:26 AM
Behind the Aegis (32,910 posts)
85. This is fucking absurd!
On Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:00 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Locking. Complaining about jury decisions violates the GD Statement of Purpose.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5036606
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Abuse of host privileges, he did not get consensus.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:11 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: We're in for a rough ride
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Good God Almighty, am I glad my GD hosting tour is over. - Lasher
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is one of the most pathetic uses of the alert system ever! If he is seen as abusing his hosting duties, take it up with Skinner, and for the record, your host privileges should also be revoked!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An alert sent on a host's locking post???
This place is now officially nuts.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I stick by my comments (#5)!
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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 02:55 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
92. OMG! Hilarious.
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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:04 AM
Aerows (24,499 posts)
95. My word
we have entered a new era. We alert on alerts about alerts
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Response to Aerows (Reply #95)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:41 AM
LeftishBrit (32,265 posts)
104. Meta-alerting! Or perhaps meta-meta-meta-alerting.
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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)
Aerows This message was self-deleted by its author.
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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #85)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 03:40 AM
LeftishBrit (32,265 posts)
103. Good lord, this is ridiculous!
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grasswire
(50,130 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)It belongs to hosts who lock threads and sustain alerts over the majority votes of the pertinent hosts. Apparently that's a violation of rules.
And apparently it's also a violation of rules to talk smack about a member (not the OP) in personal and derogatory terms.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Hosts who are targeting DUers based on bullshit imaginary "groups" is certainly the biggest one. Calling them on it is not "talking smack", but whatever.
I sort of felt sorry you got caught up in a meta- op without asking to be put there, was all I was saying. I'd be really pissed off if someone did that to me, no matter their intentions.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)The "talking smack" was your doing. Several hosts called you on it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)since when is posting facts about what happened is a smear? Hint: it isn't. Another hint, if you care so much about OPs being hidden, it;s a good idea to actually scan the page you are linking to. If not, other DUers will do it for you. It has always been that way.
Now, hosts claiming that alerters should be completely ignored because of WHO and not the WHAT was posted- that is completely beyond the pale. Shame on them.
"135. She did post RW crap, it's not a smear- it's reality.
Accidental or not- I didn't speculate. No insult there. It happened, was corrected and not the end of the world. I said the same thing to Grasswire's face. Know a bit about your sources. It's not hard.
Hosts speculating WHY many different DUers alerted are some kind of a group? That was a smear, unfounded, and shows bias against six good DUers. Do they not matter?
It is now clear that some hosts are looking at the people, and not the posts when deciding how to vote. They explain this here while avoiding discussion of the OP.
That explains a lot if the inconsistency here.
Poor Achshmid asking for other hosts to weigh in. They didn't realize that's only welcome theoretically.
I never did try and "vote", but said many times I thought it was a bad lock as handled. But it should have been a clear easy lock. It's pretty cut and dry. "
grasswire
(50,130 posts)This is your post that some other hosts called you out for:
...............
Response to greyl (Reply #36)
Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:04 AM
bettyellen (24,490 posts)
37. yeah, I know they think racism and sexist crap is not in their purview, but this is clearly a
violation. I guess Willie is special. This is just making GD worse, Grassswire posted some real RW crap and we have a thread of people treating her like Joan of Arc or a little lost lamb. Can't wait to see what they'll be emboldened to post next.
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..................
Over the top snark about members.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 26, 2014, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)
although I do see some hosts want to shut it down when it's not a friend.
so maybe Willie is not so special any more and anything goes.
What I was right about, is that too many hosts are judging the who- both of OP and alerter(s) just as much, if not more, than the content. And that makes DU suck. Suck like a cliquish HS cafeteria.
Sorry I am not a fan of meta OPs or RW crap. No matter who posts them. 
It's not personal, it just is.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It's not irrational, it's shameful.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)people are finding it informative!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)go ahead. By the way there are some important issues that you are ignoring. The TPP will literally kill the middle class in America. Kinda important. The XL Pipeline will wreak havoc across America for Chinese Oil. The Patriot Act and the NSA/CIA cabal has built an organization that controls the country. Fracking is destroying our water supplies. Wall Street is stealing the wealth of the lower classes.
It's interesting that a very vocal group here in DU that all hate whistle-blowers, dont give a crap about the above issues.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Ooops!
Then it was explained that people who have problems with sexist crap nd alert, never post against the TPP, or NSA. So NOT doing something is the reason he has defamed a whole group of DUers. As others here do.
And here he complains about the NSA making lists. And he wants to combat that by...making lists.
No wonder he tried to hide his reasoning for sliming other DUers to his fellow hosts. He is doing exactly what he claims to hate.
Way to go!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)ever do that, new reason is, it's because I do not post anything at all- on NSA/ TPP theads. And alert on c***t.
I didn't know that recing some threads was required or you end up on a "list". And that hating sexist slurs alone - made me a bad DUer. Must have been my anti-watermelon jokes that got me downgraded.
See below.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)not be happy with the TPP. Not to worry, my Senator assures me that the TPP will included tax money to retrain those that lose their jobs. The next picture will be of a not-so proud American worker manufacturing a hamburger.
You cant both support the TPP and American Labor. Which do you pick?
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)On anything...on one single thing? Do you support Obamacare? DODT? DOMA? Equal pay for women? Equal voting rights for all! Equal health care for every woman so they are not charged more than men. How about that birth control for women Manny? How about that?
Men are covered for Viagra so they can get it up, how about the women that don't want to have repercussions from a man getting it up, ya know that unwanted pregnancy thing?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)do I have a sneaking suspicion that you won't answer my TPP question?
P.S. By "DOMA", I assume you mean the *end* of DOMA.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Just having some flashbacks here.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Seriously?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And I am seeing it more and more here. Your friends are making lists of bad DUers based on threads they do not even open. Interesting.
If I was a fan of overheated rhetoric, I'd ask when they were rounding them up! Luckily I'm not.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Perhaps you can point out this kind of behavior in my "friends", whatever that means. I haven't noticed it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)What is funnier is the list of bad DUers, distinguished by not posting at all, made by a host here.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Hmm...
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Get a lot of same *what*?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I bet it must be tiresome, when you think it should be so clear!
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)No war.
No TPP.
Enhance SS.
Tax the rich again.
Cha
(296,848 posts)reality.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)What's wrong with asking this question?
It's a huge issue, and current.
Ask me my opinion on anything, I'm happy to share it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)persist. Interesting. If you don't post on your hatred of things, it means you like them?
I keep seeing people post that, and I think it's kinda demented. YMMV.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)And there are some vocal posters who attack those who are critical of our President, but won't go near discussions of the TPP.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)That, I have seen a lot of.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I don't recall people saying they fully supported it, probably because it's so awful. But they'll come to its defense.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)on lack of "recs" to "right threads". So, no support of it here, thought so. Thank you.
I am not seeing defending it in your link, rather quibbling about who enacted what when. That is not defending it.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Henry Aaron had passed away. Just another BOG post.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)from the right and some from the left. America consists of most cultures and faiths.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)... if we support politicians uncritically that do things 180 degrees from our democratic values? I thought we were supposed to hold their feet to the fire. If we go along with anything they do without regard to our principles we deserve what we get. We should save our support for our values rather than simply idolize a person.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)You are saying...
My post...
But we also believe in something called citizenship — citizenship, a word at the very heart of our founding, a word at the very essence of our democracy, the idea that this country only works when we accept certain obligations to one another and to future generations...
We, the people — recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which asks only, what's in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense.
As citizens, we understand that America is not about what can be done for us. It's about what can be done by us, together through the hard and frustrating but necessary work of self-government. That's what we believe.
http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2012/09/obama-as-transformational-president.html
Oh wait, I get it. You are with the others that commented and never read what I posted.
What politician is doing 180 degrees from our democratic values!? Excuse me? Please explain at length. This I would love to hear.
As for holding his feet to the fire...
so overused and misplaced.freshwest
(53,661 posts)Talk with you later.
sheshe2
(83,654 posts) MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I just don't agree that Obama is a transformational president. He's done several good things, and a good number of pretty bad things too. I support him - mostly. But I definitely don't idolize him by any means.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Http://www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I'm not a Democrat just because I like to vote for Democrats. I am a Democrat because of my values. So unfortunately I can't give a high five to all of Obama's actions. He's far too in bed with corporations and banks for my taste. He has handed high level appointments to republicans and other corporatists. And he has gone well beyond the pale on the NSA and patriot act stuff for my taste. Just because he is a Democrat doesn't mean he gets a pass from me on things like that. YMMV.
littlemissmartypants
(22,572 posts)One can choose to see the wildflowers or the trash while moving along the road focusing one's attention.
Love, Peace and Shelter.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)the trash is yours.
littlemissmartypants
(22,572 posts)A thistle. Speak for yourself. I am already like a crow in my attraction to trash. Helps if it is shiny.
Cha
(296,848 posts)recognize this like smartypants and many others.
If we listened to the rwhacks and some on DU we wouldn't know any of the amazing history that's gone on in the Obama White House. 
Just one tiny side effect of an Obama Presidency..
President Barack Obama meets with Lindsay Lawlor, of San Diego, Calif., and his creation, a 17-foot-tall, 2,200-lb robotic giraffe that “walks” on wheels and is powered by a 12-horsepower hybrid fuel-engine motor, during his tour on the South Lawn of the White House to meet with students, entrepreneurs and inventors, during the first ever White House “Maker Faire.” President Obama is highlighting new tools and techniques that promote fledgling businesses create and market their products in an effort to focus attention on US manufacturing need for science and math education
http://theobamadiary.com/2014/06/18/a-nation-of-makers/
And, this just because I like what the President has to say about it..
TOD
freshwest
(53,661 posts)As Clinton said, his term was a golden era but that PBO inherited a complete disaster. He's still cleaning 30 years of destruction, and doesn't have time to finish the whole job. He's working on it hard everyday and still maintaining his sanity.
He's done good but the work is always up to us, it always was and it should be. As it's about us and not about him, isn't it?
Cha
(296,848 posts)Thank you, fresh.. it was a complicated "Complete Disaster".. I love the Scientific direction the President is taking us and that he's such a "Feminist President"...
Obama Encourages Girls to Become Interested in Science
snip//
"U.S. President Barack Obama says science is not just for boys, encouraging girls to become interested in science and technology.
Obama hosted boys and girls from schools across the country displaying their talents at the annual White House Science Fair Tuesday.
He said fewer than three in 10 workers in science and engineering are women, saying there is so much talent to be tapped.
The president said he loves the Science Fair and that some of the inventions he saw on display were "just amazing."
President Barack Obama learns how sand - less sandbags work, while touring the 2014 White House Science Fair exhibits, May 27, 2014.
MOre..
http://www.voanews.com/content/white-house-hosts-science-fair/1923641.html
fresh~
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I know Obama has 'got my back.' And I know who doesn't 'have my back.' That would be those who never rejoice at these good things for us.
Cha
(296,848 posts)who are ragging on him 24/7 who only have their own backs.
6 Years of the gop has not left the President Amused..
Joshua Swearengin @BlackFridayMGT
Follow
6 years of republican obstruction has not left the President amused. #VoteBlue2014 #UniteBlue #LibCrib #tcot #GOP
6:38 AM - 20 Jun 2014
77 Retweets 20 favorites
http://theobamadiary.com/2014/06/20/chat-away-john-mccain-always-wrong/
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)You are one of the first people to respond to my OP...
The rest freshwest, divisive as always.
Thank you!
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)amazingly brilliant minds, that is our future Cha.
That is indeed our future! 
That's us Cha~
Cha
(296,848 posts)of the naysayers who don't get it.
And, President Obama is brimming with it, she. 
1000words
(7,051 posts)
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts) Cha
(296,848 posts)bush-cheney.
by Milt Shook
"It’s 2014, and once again, we have a very important election ahead of us. Yet, there are a lot of very loud progressives who have done nothing since President Obama was elected five years ago but complain, because he’s not perfect. They claim that he’s no progressive.
That’s a lie. What do these folks think “progressive” mean? The root word is “progress,” and we’ve seen a hell of a lot of progress since January 20, 2009. We have a national health care plan, for the first time in our history. We recovered from the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in quick order; we would be well on our way to a full recovery, except that Republicans in Congress are blocking everything anyone in the Democratic Party proposes, out of fear that the first black president may actually look good. Yet, with all of that blockage of progress, some progressives still spend all of their time going after Obama and Democrats."
And, if you don't spend all your time going after President Obama and Democrats.. the above doesn't appy to you.
snip//
"In addition to health care and the economy, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is history. Same-sex couples are getting married and enjoying the same benefits of other married couples. The marijuana prohibition is frittering away. The stock market has more than doubled. Manufacturing is starting to come back from Asia. The auto industry is not only whole again, but they’re producing a record number of hybrid and electric cars, and we’re on pace to double average vehicle gas mileage by 2020, even as the government both reduces our dependence on foreign oil and makes record investments in developing renewable energy sources.
MOre..
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/
Yes, the road hasn't been easy but that's what Progress is in this atmosphere of unprecedented Obstruction.. and the President never said it would be easy. But, there has been Unprecedented Progress, too.
The Incomplete Greatness of Barack Obama
He’s gotten more done in three years than any president in decades. Too bad the American public still thinks he hasn’t accomplished anything.
By Paul Glastris
snip//
"Even over the past year, when he was bogged down in budget fights with the Tea Party-controlled GOP House, Obama still managed to squeeze out a few domestic policy victories, including a $1.2 trillion deficit reduction deal and the most sweeping overhaul of food safety laws in more than seventy years. More impressively, on the foreign policy front he ended the war in Iraq, began the drawdown in Afghanistan, helped to oust Gaddafi in Libya and usher out Mubarak in Egypt, orchestrated new military and commercial alliances as a hedge against China, and tightened sanctions against Iran over its nukes."
Just one snip but great comprehensive article though for those who have the time..
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/the_incomplete_greatness_of_ba035754.php?page=all
Paul Krugman on Obama's Great Year..
snip//
"New York Times columnist Paul Krugman attempted to puncture a prevailing media narrative on Monday, arguing that — contrary to what Beltway centrists would have you believe — President Obama has actually had a successful 2014.
The Nobel Prize-winning economist highlighted the progress of the Affordable Care Act, financial reform and Obama's recent new regulations on power plants as evidence that the press and commentariat are wrong when they emphasize the negatives, such as "the contrast between the extravagant hopes of 2008 and the prosaic realities of political trench warfare, the troubles at the Department of Veterans Affairs, the mess in Iraq, and so on."
Krugman was also dismissive of Obama's relatively low approval rating, contending that it "mainly reflects political polarization" and shouldn't be used to judge the President."
MOre..
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/paul-krugman-centrists-obama-good-year
Again, thank goodness for people like Paul Glastris, Paul Krugman, and Milt Shook, she.. who are there to deal in reality unlike the ratfuckers who bait and click to get their attentionwhore profits satisfied.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I guess Medicare and Medicaid aren't national?
Most of the rest of your post is similarly half-truths or worse.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Way to win people over.
If criticizing President Obama when he merits criticism makes one a ratfucker, then....well, what the hell
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)
William769
(55,144 posts)You are really doing Senator Warren a disservice. I am positive given her stature she would be cringing at what is being said here by a supporter of hers.
Just saying.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)For shame you all......for shame!
sheshe2
(83,654 posts)I agree with you 100%!
William769
(55,144 posts) 
greatauntoftriplets
(175,729 posts)
LexVegas
(6,030 posts)Not as good. Better than the alternative.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)sheshe2
(83,654 posts)
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I just find all this back-and-forth sort of silly. And some people here really do like to taunt. Whatever floats one's boat, I suppose.
