So as you can imagine, I am rather underwhelmed by what passes for Dems theses days.

which is to say the repub party doesn't do that at all and the reality of democratic politicians and policies doesn't do it often enough.

To me that's most in sinc with the highest ideals to the Preamble of the Constitution "We the People" are the government or we should be, not in the literal sense but metaphorically speaking. Of course not all Democrats live up to those standards but I believe more of them do.

The Republicans as a party believe government is the problem, and the Republicans' prime directive is that of promoting private enterprise; aka mega-corporations and oligarchs over that of the public or "general welfare" to my way of thinking that's in direct opposition to what the Founders thought government should be.

Thanks for the thread, MaggieD.

at some point in your life, but there is a chance you did not realize it. I know I have, in a few cases there was nobody else on the ballot to be honest. So it was Republican or Republican.

These are not the top tier "partisan" offices, but the non partisan ones. Judges, Boards of Education, and at times County Sheriff.

As to your question. I am an independent first because elected Federal Democrats at times have turned on the values I believe in. These days I am a reporter, so as one I cannot be partisan in any way, shape or form, which tells you why I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you have ever cast a vote for a Board of Education, a judgeship or a County Sheriff, there are very good chances you have voted for a Republican.

Yup, one of my beats is local politics.

And a few of those people are actually good eggs, and they are not evil, they do put their service above all to the people. Yup, there are scoundrels also elected at lower offices, who should not be, in any way, shape or form, in government. Unfortunately, it seems to be the current pattern, the good eggs tend to stay happy serving at lower levels, while the scoundrels (on both sides to be fair), move up the ladder.

Oh and you want to reform the party? Start paying close attention to what I call the farm.. farm team Many politicians on both sides actually start getting their chops at the often ignored local Board of Education. The Rs figured this in the 1990s, why they targeted school boards and judgeships, we have yet to learn that.

I write someone in or leave it blank. I try not to vote for someone I know nothing about.

at times that assures you to get a few crazies into office.

I know for me it is easier, since we talk to these people. So I can tell you with full confidence that one of the Judges I voted for (moderate Eisenhower Republican) was far preferable to the tea party loon... who was running against him. I know it is far easier for us, but we try to cover those low tier races for that reason alone. Now, never in the article did any of us refer to the tea party loon as well, a loon. We just pointed out that the local bar would much prefer if people did not vote for him, and that he did engage in a few things on FB that were less than ethical.

The loon part, that was the talk of the office.

to give people the information. But none of us can do more than give that information. This is why I spend time at things like Ron Paul Rallies, and Tea Party events... It is an art not to get drawn into a political discussion, and that goes as well for your local Democratic Party event. Now I much prefer the debates, since you have all flinging at the same time DUCK!!!!!

Find out if any local paper is doing this in your area. This is where LOCAL journalism shines. If you find a paper doing it, send some money their way. It's not cheap.

I have brought in info before on all the candidates on the ballot, which I had reviewed beforehand, but I have also gone in "blind" for various reasons, including laziness.

I need to find info on a couple people running for council, maybe an interview, but...fun, always

I NEVER vote in any race where a person is running unopposed. NEVER. The message I'm trying to send there is to encourage more people to run if others do the same and there are low vote totals in the race.

For non-partisan elections I research the candidates. Particularly who they are endorsed by. In WA state it's easy because we are all mail in ballot so we have plenty of time to research, and they send a detailed voter pamphlet before each election.

So no, I have never voted for a republican. Wouldn't even dream of it.

As for the rest of your post, you make a lot if assumptions. But thanks anyway.

so you never vote in board of supervisor elections, or sheriffs, or Board of Education or judgeships. Okie dokie.

A couple of my local races would have been confusing to you... the endorsements came from literally all sides.

And I said I research very carefully before I vote. (So why would you think I don't vote in the specific races you mention?) The assumption you make is that I am not very active in politics in my area. I am.

and with that I am taking my leave from this thread.

There are lots of very engaged voters. I would imagine those that post to a discussion forum about politics are more engaged than most.

Of course....as if you had to tell anyone here that...

This is just were you come to admonish REAL Democrats for not being all trendy and Indy like you!


Independent Underground is ---thataway--->

The closest I've come to voting for a Republican was voting for a Democrat who was endorsed by the local GOP executive committee since there was no Republican on the ballot. Most of my life I've lived in one party Democratic towns. I did spend one election cycle in a red small town, but the local offices were all nonpartisan and I abstained from them anyway.

And someone else deciding what I (and my daughter and granddaughter) can do with our bodies is intolerable. And so many other things, but it started with the issue of basic respect for me as a human being.
Certainly not all of our candidates are flawless, far from it. But in our 2-party system, it's simple: voting 3rd party, or sitting at home, is the exact same thing as voting Republican.

A few years ago, I moved to Arizona. Got convinced by Thom Hartman and a few Dem operatives that I have the best chance of changing the Dem party from within. Am now the president of our local Dem club, a precinct captain for our legislative district and determined to turn Arizona blue. I don't mean Ron Barber blue, I mean Elizibeth Warren blue. I can't fix this overnight but I AM being listened to. That's why I am now a Dem.

I was the president of an H.O.A. In San Jose about 10 years You can't believe how much influence you can have by just being involved! Most folks want to bitch but don't want to actually do anything. Get involved! While they're watching "Dancing With The Stars" you can change the world.

I'm still registered as one, and even contributing monthly to my local party, but I'm not excited about any Dem candidate here or nationally.

I know that majorities matter, but both parties are feeding on corporate money; so nothing matters like it should or could.

sometimes you absolutely must vote for the lesser of two evils. I have 3 granddaughters who are hostages to the future in this country. I cannot and will not let an anti-choice republican take away their right to choose. We cannot go back to pre-Roe days...I lived through that and nothing is worth having these bastards back in power and getting Roe reversed...

They are, at times, imperfect but never "evil" IMHO and most of the party is on track most of the time with their stated platform, which is best aligned with my political beliefs/values. I've voted for a few principled Republicans like Dick Lugar before but Republicans like him are too far and few between these days.

because they don't consider them "good enough" or they are protesting because their candidate didn't get the nomination...

I always vote and I never vote Republican. I did once vote for an Independent and have regretted it bitterly...

Lily Ledbetter, Title IX....this list goes on and on.

I know which president moved heaven and earth to get the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act passed---and his name was not Goldwater. LBJ and Humphrey did a whole lot of arm twisting with a whole lot of politicians to get some important work done. Politics is not for the weak willed.

The Democratic Party is generally too violent and too pro 1% for my tastes.

Because I believe in health care for all, because I believe women have a right to decide, because I believe all citizens have the right to vote, because I believe in immigration reform, because I believe in economic opportunity, and because I am not selfish.

But the truth is, I'm a liberal, and an ideologue. If it came down to it, I'd vote for a liberal Republican over a conservative Democrat. But they don't have liberal Republicans anymore, and too many conservative, corporate-friendly Democrats.

Because our government should be for the people, and not for the corporations. Corporations are not people, no matter what Rmoney says.

Because my job is to help homeless people, and I'll never forgive Ronald Reagan for airily suggesting that the homeless choose to be the way they are.

Because we are a nation, a continent-spanning community, and not simply 300,000,000 self-interested individuals.

Because every success I've had in life has been achieved, in part, with help from tax-payers I have never met. In the form of VA home loans, unemployment insurance, low-interest student loans, etc.

Because I got my career off to a steady start with the help of a union. And although I'm no longer eligible to be a member of a union, I will spend the rest of my life giving back to unions at the ballot-box.

That's just a small sampling of the many, many reasons why I am a Democrat.

that corporatists had largely purchased both major parties and were using them more as tools to divide voters and to get party faithful to circle around abhorrent policy, than to actually offer different visions for the country.

The entire reason for choosing to become part of a party has been and should remain that the party most closely represents your own values and principles and policy goals and actively works to achieve them. In recent years, we have seen a sinister and deliberate push to change that expectation. Parties are now demanding loyalty from voters no matter what they do, and those demands have become increasingly explicit and insulting. Even here on DU, we have witnessed astounding statements by the usual corporate posters that the party has no duty or responsibility to lay out an agenda for its voters or to prove to them that it will try to represent their interests. We have also seen brazen defense of lying to voters during campaigns, with the excuse that corporate money makes it necessary.

More and more often, appeals for votes take the form of empty celebration of the politician himself, lectures about loyalty wholly apart from policy, and threats that the other party will hurt you worse.

And more and more often, politicians in both parties are pursuing the same, malignant corporate agenda even though it does not even remotely resemble what voters have repeatedly expressed they want and need.

I think the parties, both of them, need a serious reminder that they exist to serve voters, and not the other way around. Candidates need to remember that they are vying to become representatives, not authority figures. Votes are not owed to any politician solely by virtue of the party membership he or she claims. They must be earned.

Everything has to be rigged so that the Corporatist agenda prevails, regardless of who wins an election.

is how Orwellian the messaging has to be to sustain it. Voters are offered two candidates with the very same agenda in most of the major areas of policy...

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks?
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.

...yet we are simultaneously propagandized, using shiny objects and wedge issues, to believe that the parties are more polarized than at any time in history.

The real goal has been to polarize the electorate rather than the politicians so that we will hate and battle one another while they quietly implement the corporate agenda. To detach people's loyalties from the principles and policies that led them to select the party in the first place, and attach it instead to the party itself, regardless of what policies it pursues or how malignant its agenda becomes.

Hence, ridiculous posts like the ones you see below, that try to herd voters into into their teams based on vapid appeals to team loyalty and absurd, hectoring attempts to make it socially unacceptable to stray from the herd....while deliberately avoiding any policy considerations whatsoever.

Last edited Mon Jun 23, 2014, 04:36 PM - Edit history (1)

and reminders about the foundation of our government in representation and citizen participation, rather than fealty to "leaders." Some very sick messages are being spread about how government should work and what citizens have a right to expect from government.

We are coming up on a new election season, when the messaging will be particularly perverse again. Voters will be lectured to keep quiet and refrain from criticism so as not to disturb the politicians' delicate plans, rather than vigorously engaging to make sure that we get the candidates who will actually represent our interests.

this is a website ABOUT the Party....

these far out hypotheticals.....epic fail!

I got one...."what if Sara Palin were the first woman on Mars?"!

What if.........?

Considering that the Progressive Caucus is the biggest one...I highly doubt a "taking over" is occuring...

As being anything viable......I am more concerned with what harm ideologues can do.....

.... there is no worse alternative. These are the ideologues that threaten our democracy and our planet. The fact that they manage to keep this corruption of our Party largely out of the public eye is hardly a reason to dismiss it.

I can only assume that you support the Koch's attempt to undermine our Party, our democracy and the People of the United States. Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you.

And shame on you for trying unsuccessfully to shame me for support of Democrats.....on a DEMOCRATIC forum!

I don't support Neocons...YOU are projecting that on me BECAUSE I support Democrats...EVEN former Republicans like Elizabeth Warren!

Ideologues are NOT taking over this party if I can help it....my family have supported Democrats STRONGLY since FDR do NOT presume to be a better Democrat than I am with your tripe! It is YOUR kind that WANT to take over the party.

Ideologue Underground is ---Thataway--->

Thanks for lifting the veil!

Independents here to squash any Democratic Party Unity!

Thanks for lifting the veil!

Independents here to squash any Democratic Party Unity!

Not a reliable democrat...just as I suspected.

sound extraordinarily unappealing.

I've been a Democrat since 1965. I've usually voted Democrat, never voted Republican. But, when the nose holding exceeds my grasp I'll vote 3rd Party.

When we went too far to the left -- e.g., George McGovern -- we lost 49 states.

In Federal elections, I don't know of another party that has a chance of succeeding in anything other than tossing the election to the Rethugs, as Nader did in 2000.

... because while the Republicans' goals were the same as the Democrats' goals, the Democrats had better ideas about how to attain those goals.

I am still a Democrat because the Republicans now have no goals whatsoever.

The choice between the two parties used to be one of not where we need to be, but how to get there.

The choice between the two parties has now become a choice between sanity and insanity. I am always on the side of sanity - so my choice is clear, and requires little introspection.

The Democratic Party stands for prosperity for all - not for the few.

I am a dirty fucking hippie Socialist.

The Democratic Party is too right wing.

Peace and Prosperity for all is my wish for the planet.

That is NOT the Democratic platform.

I am loving the wolves removing their sheeps clothing on this thread!

Does the fact that someone posts on this website automatically count as 'sheep's clothing' to you?

Have any of these people ever claimed to be a Democrat?

Or does the simple fact that you were ignorant of what they were, politically, suddenly magically turn them into 'wolves in sheep's clothing'?

But I guess it's good to know that you consider Democrats 'sheep'.

THAT sheeps clothing!

So those that come to Democratic Underground to admonish LOYAL Democrats because YOU cannot get "Independent" candidates elected....are hypocritical to say the least....

a Dem, I fail to see the 'clothing'.

And do you really WANT to chase off left-leaning indies? To shrink the big tent?

Do you want people who vote Dem 90% or even 80% of the time, or would you rather sneer at them and tell them to go elsewhere, and maybe drop the percentage of time they vote Dem, thus enabling Republicans getting into office because of your disdain for the impure 'indies'?

Its hypocritical...

Republicans?

The only reason they haven't won more races is that so many of their moderates have been willing to swerve wildly to the right to head off the challengers.

But on the left, we don't seem to grasp that lesson, so instead, our 'moderates' keep chasing them ever farther to the right, shifting the middle ever farther right.

You need to grasp THAT lesson!

Have you seen the Teabaggers approval numbers lately? They are utterly dismal!

That government shouldn't do anything, and that no one on the right should compromise with the left.

They've gotten that accepted by pretty much every single Republican out there.

The lesson you need to grasp is that Teabaggers don't want government to work. As long as government remains completely dysfunctional, they're quite happy.

Looks like the govt is still running from the seat I sit in,....

hadn't completely cowed every single Republican into submission. And it was a very close call even then, back before they'd started running candidates against other Republicans.

And it has been a dismal failure....

Such is how it works out for Ideologues versus Realists!

I give them credit for a more thorough and long term set of goals than you do.

They don't have thorough and long tem goals....they just hate that a black man is President.

I happen to know ALOT of Teabaggers...I am from South Carolina.

I have voted for a couple republicans in local elections, but the rest have been dems. With what the competition stands for, it is pretty easy. Each election cycle, it gets easier.

I'm British so I can't vote in your elections anyway. But I support Democrats because I grew up poor.

We need more parties but for some reason that doesn't ever seem to be a possibility.

And because I'm a woman and 100% pro-choice in all cases.

Democrats are our only hope of being a bulwark against plutocracy, but I'm afraid even they have been bought and sold.

And while one of those in inevitable I don't aspire for the other 3.

But it is getting difficult to do so.

Later, the contrast between the parties made it clear whose side I was on. It was a no-brainer.

Which to me, is as close as we have come to a mild form of socialism in this country.

I will always believe that the people of this nation always come first and that moneyed interests come second.

If you support the first part the second part will do just fine.

Although I still vote for the Democratic party today, I do so while holding my nose.

The very last President in this Nation to show even a somewhat truer form of what a Democratic president actually is, was Jimmy Carter. And Frankly, in my 1980 mock High School Election, I voted for Anderson, because he represented more of what I stand for.

Today, I fully support Bernie Saunders and Elizabeth Warren as the two people whom I believe closely represent what a true Democrat stands for.

So who will I vote fore this time around? I will answer that after the primaries.

will do the least amount of damage to working folks. Sadly it is getting harder and harder to find candidates that fit that description but they seem to usually be registered as democrats. I also consider voting to be a very small part of the overall picture. Advocating for the majority of the people as opposed to the 1% is where I am most comfortable.

and education should be accessible and cherished for all. I believe in civil rights for all. I believe health care should be accessible for all. I don't consider voting for republicans. Their policies are disastrous for the average working person. I do vote for the most progressive candidate available in every election. That's often the one with a D next to their name.

Maybe it wasn't clear enough for some folks. My point is are you a Democratic voter because of your values, or just because you support Democratic politicians?

I think there is a big distinction between the two. If it's the later than anyone with a D after their name apparently gets unconditional support. If it's the former we should work to get better Democrats in office, and make the others more cognizant of the fact they voters who vote D expect their reps to act like true Democrats and support Democratic party values.

And thank you for "getting it" Romulux.

expressed my view.

That's a good question that you pose in the OP, and makes for an interesting discussion. So thank you for that.

I was raised in a household that was firmly in the Democratic Party. My father's family were New Deal democrats. And union activists.

My mother's father had been a socialist and radical union organizer. He was also a WW2 hero, and had been on the cover of the US Marine's handbook. By the time I was born, he had joined the Democratic Party.

As a young teenager, I became close friends with Rubin "Hurricane" Carter. Boxing has always been the sport with the closest relationship to politics; Carter had been friends with bothMalcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. So discussing politics and social issues with Rubin was heady stuff for me, and opened my young eyes to different ways of viewing "the system" in America.

Through my maternal grandmother's extended family -- which included Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman -- I would be exposed to yet other ways to think.

So, while I've been a registered democrat for many, many years, I would say it is because of the general values system that I associate with the people I get along with the best, on the grass-root's level, as well as the contributions of the great people at the national level. Yet, the "Democratic Party" isn't my identity, as such, in things political. It's a suit that I wear while working towards the greater goal of social justice. It does not prevent me from being friends with, or working with, people from any other party identification (or independents).

It mirrors my thinking, but you articulated it so well. Much better than I could have. Thank you.

I care about what happens to the environment, other people and our future. My focus is not the greed of the rich, I am not for the profit of the corporations or the 1%.

We need to care for each other and do what is right, not what will make someone rich.

I actually have done very well in life, but I like to say, "I will never be rich enough to vote republican!" Can't happen.

over 50 years. Now I'm an Independent.

and other wealthy private interests, and anyone they put in positions of authority to advance continual privatization and the polarization of wealth.

I used to be, and I usually justified it with that same sort of 'lesser evil' deal that so many other people do.

Nowadays, as a Democratic Socialist, I get to vote for far fewer primary candidates (ie, usually none), but still mostly vote for Dems. Just not all of them.

and of course since Sarah Palin, Darrell Issa, Paul Ryan, everyone on TV and radio and in the newspapers (the true enemies of Americans) call themselves Republicans, I vote against them, which means voting (D).

But it's getting very difficult. The president has been a disaster on two fronts:

1. Advancing liberal issues
2. Hindering right-wing advances

i voted for a republican *once*, weld for governor of massachusetts, who was more liberal than just-to-the-right-of-attila-the-hun silber, who somehow managed to get the democratic nomination.

while undoubtedly weld made a better governor than silber would have, as an individual person, he naturally appointed and surrounded himself with a ton of republicans, which made the overall result worse than had silber won.

consequently, i have a very, very tough time seeing how i could ever vote for a republican again.

I will vote D. This has been and remains my litmus test. I believe in choice and until you have been forced to make that decision, for yourself, you have no say in how a woman deals with a problem she is generally left to handle alone.

Nothing spewed by GOPers has ever made sense to me.


Even when Democratic candidates are too far to the center I'd still rather take my chances with them than with the center-right GOPers.

I value people over profit, I believe in strong labor unions, I'm pro choice, and I believe in equality for all. I wound never vote Republican in my life, with all the backwardness that party shows. Although I support the Green Party, there is more work to be done here in North Carolina.

1. Nixon, Reagan, and Bushes l and ll happened.

2. The GOP has been intent on taking my rights and other people's rights away. (e.g. the right to vote, the right to not be subject to discrimination, etc.) In contrast, much of the country's gains over the decades for minorities, women, the LGBT community, the disabled, and other disadvantaged groups have come under Democrats.

3. The Democratic Party is the party that is most likely to defeat the GOP while simultaneously caring about many different issues important to me (such as health care, enacting gun control, and jobs).

4. Whenever there is a Republican in power, unemployment and the deficit both increase. The opposite has been true under Democrats.

5. 3rd party candidates tend to have very little name recognition, they currently have no peers from their own parties in Congress to work with them, and they seem to prioritize a select few issues over others. If I'm correct, the Green Party's platform is centered around the environment, for example. With the Libertarian Party, "freedom" is of utmost importance, except what they never mention is that they really mean the freedom of the elites. The freedom of everyone else comes 2nd.
Many supporters of 3rd parties affectionately classify voting for one of the 2 major parties as "voting for the lesser of 2 evils", but I look at it another way: a political party is not necessarily "evil" just because they may not walk lockstep with all of my views. All political parties are man-made, therefore, there is no such thing as a "perfect" party. In addition, the electoral system basically allows for only 2 competitive parties, anyway. The party with a plurality of votes wins, even if 2 or more losing parties of a similar agenda earn more votes combined. It's not like proportional representation, where the amount of power a party has is proportionate to the number of votes received.

I'm a socialist that votes Democratic 90% of the time.

The party needs to move the needle much farther to the left to get me back.

And, as far as I'm concerned, electing Hillary would be moving it to the right.

I have always been a Democrat. One reason is because I was always a feminist and the Democratic party stood up for women's and minority rights. My two children are also Democrats as I have instilled in their minds the benefits of voting Democrat. And their children are also Democrats.

Dems are for social programs to help the needy, want to help veterans, want to raise the minimum wage, etc.. The party reflects the way I feel about society.