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ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:16 AM Jun 2014

The Biggest Myth About Organic Farming

by Ross Pomeroy June 6, 2014

The majority of Americans believe that organic foods are healthier than food grown using conventional methods. The majority of Americans are wrong. Two systematic reviews, one from Stanford University and the other by a team of researchers based out of the United Kingdom, turned up no evidence that organic foods are more nutritious or lead to better health-related outcomes for consumers.

But the idea that organic foods are healthier isn't even the largest myth out there. That title belongs to the widely held belief that organic farming does not use pesticides. A 2010 poll found that 69% of consumers believe that to be true. Among those who regularly purchase organic food, the notion is even more prevalent. A survey from the Soil Association found that as many as 95% of organic consumers in the UK buy organic to "avoid pesticides."

In fact, organic farmers do use pesticides. The only difference is that they're "natural" instead of "synthetic." At face value, the labels make it sound like the products they describe are worlds apart, but they aren't. A pesticide, whether it's natural or not, is a chemical with the purpose of killing insects (or warding off animals, or destroying weeds, or mitigating any other kind of pest, as our watchful commenters have correctly pointed out). Sadly, however, "natural" pesticides aren't as effective, so organic farmers actually end up using more of them!*

Moreover, we actually know less about the effects of "natural" pesticides. Conventional "synthetic" pesticides are highly regulated and have been for some time. We know that any remaining pesticide residues on both conventional and organic produce aren't harmful to consumers. But, writes agricultural technologist Steve Savage, "we still have no real data about the most likely pesticide residues that occur on organic crops and we are unlikely to get any."


More at the link...

http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/06/the_biggest_myth_about_organic_farming.html
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Biggest Myth About Organic Farming (Original Post) ZombieHorde Jun 2014 OP
Everything is a con job. madaboutharry Jun 2014 #1
The source for the OP is a conservative commodities trader and a conservative ad agency KurtNYC Jun 2014 #21
No surprise! RealClearScience is part of RealClearPolitics. Denzil_DC Jun 2014 #22
Thanks for telling me that. madaboutharry Jun 2014 #27
1000+. It also means getting agribusiness chums out of our food stream on point Jun 2014 #28
It won't be entirely BS. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #31
Those studies showed that there wasn't more nutritional value from the organic foods. pnwmom Jun 2014 #2
From the article, which is pretty short... ZombieHorde Jun 2014 #4
Well I call bullshit.. I've worked on Organic farms in Cal, New York and Hawaii and guess Cha Jun 2014 #3
What was their brand names? ZombieHorde Jun 2014 #6
These are the farms.. Delcious produce and herbs. LIttle Creek Acres in Valley Center, California, Cha Jun 2014 #7
Is that true for ALL organic farms? FrodosPet Jun 2014 #10
I'm going by my own personal experience from actually working on those farms.. and from Cha Jun 2014 #14
I'll have to do some more research, but I like the idea FrodosPet Jun 2014 #15
Never to late to start, FP.. at least you'll feel better I think while you're doing it. I started Cha Jun 2014 #16
it certainly makes people pay more money, doesn't it? Skittles Jun 2014 #5
People are free to consume pesticide-laden foods all they want. Le Taz Hot Jun 2014 #8
the guy who wrote is creating new myths wisechoice Jun 2014 #9
The author being discussed in your link ZombieHorde Jun 2014 #12
Thank you for showing the post is bullsh*t emsimon33 Jun 2014 #19
another link wisechoice Jun 2014 #11
Nice link. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #30
The article doesn't even mention what pesticides it's talking about 4now Jun 2014 #13
The organic veggies in my garden roody Jun 2014 #17
I eat organic cause it tastes better. pansypoo53219 Jun 2014 #18
Look for heritage fruit and veg if you're after better flavour. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #32
Thank you very much but I'll still by local and organic as much as I can cali Jun 2014 #20
No one who knows ANYTHING about organic farming thinks that pesticides are never used. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #23
Organic food is more costly, wilted, and sad-looking, study finds Orrex Jun 2014 #24
This small commercial organic farmer doesn't use pesticides. Ever. riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #25
"Conventional" Food Production fredamae Jun 2014 #26
The Stanford study is very flawed A Little Weird Jun 2014 #29

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
21. The source for the OP is a conservative commodities trader and a conservative ad agency
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 08:11 AM
Jun 2014

It is total bullshit but some love spreading this crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealClearPolitics#Origin

Study Finds Far Less Pesticide Residue on Organic Produce

Edward Groth III, a senior scientist at Consumers Union and a co-author of the report, said: ''There have been some very strong opinions voiced about organic produce that haven't been based on data and have confused the issue. This report shows rather convincingly and compellingly that organic foods are much less likely to have any residues; that when they have residues they have fewer and that the levels of the residues are generally lower.''


http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/08/us/study-finds-far-less-pesticide-residue-on-organic-produce.html

The best reasons to grow or choose organic:

1 - The organic label certifies you are not eating GMO foods such as HFCS which is designed to fatten cattle, or GMO corn and soy which are designed to be sprayed repeatedly with glyphosate (herbicide).

2 - Support for sustainable and local agriculture which is not dependent on fossil fuels for its inputs.

3 - Organic practices do not expose farm workers and neighbors to high concentrations of poisons ("the dose makes the poison).

4 - Good organic practices use healthy soil and healthy plants to create defenses to diseases and pests BEFORE they can do damage. That same healthy soil is responsible for the statistically higher concentrations of calcium and other nutrients.

5 - Organic milk consistently tested higher than conventional for nutrition and omega 3s.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=250012684

A new business model emerging for conventionally agriculture is unhealthy plants and animals, propped up by herbicides, pesticides and antibiotics in one system. Synthetic fertilizers + synthetic herbicides + GMO seeds + synthetic pesticides; lots of expensive inputs that keep small farmers poor. The average small farmers nets less than $400 an acre growing corn but buying his inputs make big corporations richer.

Weakened plants and animals are the mode for conventional farming and that is moving over to human beings. The youngest generation of Americans is nic-named "Generation Rx" because one in three children are on medications by the time they reach grade school now -- allergies, diabetes, ADD, ADHD, obesity, etc.

Conventional agriculture, like American (human) healthcare is now a disease management system which does not avoid or deal with the root causes, and benefits those who make and sell medicines and symptom treating preparations. Organic, on the other hand, is about staying as healthy as possible by making sure the body has a diversity of nutrients to draw on and avoiding neurotoxins and other health-reducing substances.

Denzil_DC

(7,216 posts)
22. No surprise! RealClearScience is part of RealClearPolitics.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 08:25 AM
Jun 2014

RealClearPolitics is mainly an aggregator set up in 2000 by conservatives: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealClearPolitics

Despite claims to espouse "ideological diversity," if you've ever read the site, you'll see where it's coming from (and as for its "highly selective" electoral polling averages, cherrypicking Republican-favoring polls ...).

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
31. It won't be entirely BS.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

Somebody posted a couple of images in a comment stream under one of these 'organic' diaries a day or two back. As it turns out, a LOT of the 'organic' food on the market is put out by the same giant agribusinesses who put out the non-organic versions. I'm guessing that the way the large agribusinesses do 'organic' is to simply swap out synthetic for organic pesticides. The 'organic' label is simply too vague at this point in time, and can cover a range of different farming practices. I'd like to see some studies that compare non-organic from agribusiness to organic from agribusiness to organic from small family farmer.

pnwmom

(108,950 posts)
2. Those studies showed that there wasn't more nutritional value from the organic foods.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:31 AM
Jun 2014

They did not prove that there are no long term health benefits from reduced exposure to harmful pesticides.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
4. From the article, which is pretty short...
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:38 AM
Jun 2014
"Organic pesticides that are studied have been found to be as toxic as synthetic pesticides," Steven Novella, president and co-founder of the New England Skeptical Society, recently wrote.


Both types of crops use pesticides, which are equally toxic, so you're not reducing your exposure to harmful pesticides when you eat organic.

Cha

(296,672 posts)
3. Well I call bullshit.. I've worked on Organic farms in Cal, New York and Hawaii and guess
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:35 AM
Jun 2014

what? No pesticides. Since it's just my experience I don't expect anyone to believe it but I'm still stating it.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
6. What was their brand names?
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:44 AM
Jun 2014

People in those places may want to buy their produce over other organic produce.

Cha

(296,672 posts)
7. These are the farms.. Delcious produce and herbs. LIttle Creek Acres in Valley Center, California,
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 01:41 AM
Jun 2014

Woodland Essence, Cold Brook, New York, and Spirit of the Earth Farm, Anahola, HI

Cha

(296,672 posts)
14. I'm going by my own personal experience from actually working on those farms.. and from
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:22 AM
Jun 2014

the farms I've bought produce from across the country and Hawai'i. I have an allergic reaction to pesticides and have to be extremely careful.. So that would be in Virginia, Georgia, Florida, Vermont, Arizona, and Colorado.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
15. I'll have to do some more research, but I like the idea
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:37 AM
Jun 2014

I appreciate the idea of minimizing my chemical load. Growing up in the 60s and 70s in industrial Michigan, I already have enough fire retardants and solvents and pesticides in my system to make seeing my 70s pretty unlikely.

Cha

(296,672 posts)
16. Never to late to start, FP.. at least you'll feel better I think while you're doing it. I started
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:44 AM
Jun 2014

eating organic in the '70s but didn't always adhere to it until about 20 years ago give or take.

Good luck!

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
8. People are free to consume pesticide-laden foods all they want.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 01:49 AM
Jun 2014

As for me and my family, we'll pick the critters off the fruits/veggies as needed.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
12. The author being discussed in your link
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:18 AM
Jun 2014

seems to be a different person than the author of the article I posted. Your link seems to be arguing against a different article.

emsimon33

(3,128 posts)
19. Thank you for showing the post is bullsh*t
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 06:18 AM
Jun 2014

I read it and thought of all the scientific studies that countered most of the article and then I found your post which verified my memory.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
30. Nice link.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:25 AM
Jun 2014

I also like that they linked back to the original study at which they were looking. I flipped through to the original study, read through the abstract, then back to look at your linked story.

It shows both one of the cardinal 'sins' of science, and they way in which ideologues immediately latch on to such. The temptation to be overcome as a scientist is that of stating conclusions that are broader than your actual data supports.

And ideologues then love to come along and take those overbroad statements and shout to the heavens 'Look, a scientist said this! It got published in a peer-reviewed journal! So it must be THE TRUTH(TM)!'

Linking back to the original studies, you get to see what was actually shown by the data, not just the conclusions that people want to draw from them.

4now

(1,596 posts)
13. The article doesn't even mention what pesticides it's talking about
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 02:18 AM
Jun 2014

Reads like propaganda. Not very well done.
Look around, there are much better organic bashing articles out there.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
32. Look for heritage fruit and veg if you're after better flavour.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:36 AM
Jun 2014

The standard varietals, even among many organics, are bred in part simply to last looking good on shelves as long as possible.

I find the flavour in stuff I grow from heritage seed is enormously stronger.

My favourite suppliers to date are seedsavers.org and southernexposure.com, with territorial seeds not doing too badly either.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
20. Thank you very much but I'll still by local and organic as much as I can
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 06:26 AM
Jun 2014

And I know my area organic farmers and their practices. I trust these guys a fuck of a lot more than this. And it's not only about better for you, it's about farming practices. Click on any of these links, and you'll find farmers with a philosophy of farming that is the antithesis of the factory farming that dominates in the U.S.

These are just a few of the organic farmers and producers within 7 miles of my home- and yes, it all tastes so much superior to supermarket stuff- from eggs and meat and cheese to fruit and veggies.

http://www.hazendalefarm.com/farmstand_info/farmstand_info.html

http://www.petesgreens.com/

http://www.vermontsoy.com/

http://eastviewfarm.com/

http://caledoniaspirits.com/spirits/

http://www.hardwickbeef.com/

http://www.uvm.edu/vtvegandberry/WebMkt/Riversidefarm.html

http://www.benspumpkins.com/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/LeBlanc-Family-Farm/122509284611786?sk=page_map

http://www.jasperhillfarm.com/farm/


Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
23. No one who knows ANYTHING about organic farming thinks that pesticides are never used.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 08:47 AM
Jun 2014

Organic farmers (and many small, conventional use family farms for that matter) tend to use pesticides judiciously. The one thing the article states correctly is that they use different pesticides and specifically use the least toxic, narrow spectrum products first.

OTOH the large scale commercial farmers are more likely to overuse synthetic and OMRI-certified organic pesticides and to choose broad spectrum pesticides.

I could smell the fresh manure in the OP link even before I saw KurtNYC's post.

Orrex

(63,154 posts)
24. Organic food is more costly, wilted, and sad-looking, study finds
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 09:39 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:51 AM - Edit history (1)

From this snarky but unimpeachable source:


Confirming what everyone with eyes had already noticed years ago, a study commissioned by the British Government's Ministry of Culinary Obviousness concluded that so-called "organic" foods are four times more likely to appear blanched, tired, and generally ill-favored. A random sampling of 1,000 people across Britain found that "sallow" was the word most commonly chosen to describe organic produce, followed closely by "expensive."

Indeed, organic foods typically cost between 1.5 and 2 times more than equivalent non-organic foods.

"The whole thing's a ruse," noted Kirsten Smythe, a lead researcher in the study. "'Organic' simply means that the food contains carbon, and that describes nearly everything you're apt to eat, save perhaps an ice cube."

Nonetheless, researchers predicted that eager consumers will still happily pay much more for foods with little or no proven benefit beyond anecdotal testimony.

"I don't mind paying five pounds for an organic banana," said Nigel Sinclair, a London-based commodities broker, "as long as I feel as though I'm getting something more nutritious."

Curiously, sales of the dubious yet aggressively marketed produce have risen in the weeks since the release of the report. Further studies are planned to assess the impact of unpleasant facts upon the purchasing habits of people suspicious of such facts.
 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
25. This small commercial organic farmer doesn't use pesticides. Ever.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 09:47 AM
Jun 2014

Neither do any of the other farmers at our local green market that we supply.

We weed. A lot. We're believers that pesticide/herbicide use is not only harmful to humans but its harmful to the soil. If you've ever seen the soil of a large corn/soybean operation you'd know that there's nothing "alive" in or around that soil anymore - no worms, no bees, no hummingbirds or butterflies.

The pesticides/herbicides are killing our soil too with dangerous ramifications to the rest of the ecosystems that nurture plant growth.

A Little Weird

(1,754 posts)
29. The Stanford study is very flawed
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 10:14 AM
Jun 2014

There's a lot of info out there about it if you care to look. Here's one that's pretty good - http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/09/five-ways-stanford-study-underestimates-organic-food

To each his own, but I will try to buy organic when I can.

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