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cali

(114,904 posts)
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 04:27 AM Jun 2014

SHAME on President Obama. SHAME on Secretary Kerry. Egypt.

The U.S., thru Kerry, enthusiastically supports al-Sisi; releases aid money- all amidstthe mass condemnation to death of Muslim Brotherhood supporters, the bullshit bogus persecution/prosecution of Al-Jazeera journalists, the disappearance/torture of political enemies on a large scale, and more.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/world/africa/egypt-death-sentences/


Egypt’s hidden prison: ‘disappeared’ face torture in Azouli military jail

Hundreds of “disappeared” Egyptians are being tortured and held outside of judicial oversight in a secret military prison, according to Guardian interviews with former inmates, lawyers, rights activists and families of missing persons.

Since at least the end of July 2013, detainees have been taken there blindfolded and forcibly disappeared. Up to 400 are still being tortured and held outside of judicial oversight in the clearest example of a wide-scale crackdown that Amnesty and Human Rights Watch have jointly called “repression on a scale unprecedented in Egypt’s modern history”.

Prisoners at Azouli are routinely electrocuted, beaten and hanged naked by their tied wrists for hours until they either give up specific information, memorise confessions or until – in the case of a small group of released former inmates – are deemed of no further use to their interrogators.

They are among at least 16,000 political prisoners arrested since last summer’s regime change. But what sets Azouli’s prisoners apart is the way they are held outside of Egypt’s legal system, in circumstances that allow their jailers to act without fear of even hypothetical consequences.

<snip>

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/22/disappeared-egyptians-torture-secret-military-prison


Secretary of State John Kerry voiced strong U.S. support for Egypt's new president and signaled that Washington will continue the flow of military aid in an American welcome of the post-coup government.

Mr. Kerry is the most senior Obama administration official to meet Abdel Fattah Al Sisi, the former commander of the Egyptian armed forces, since his inauguration as president earlier this month. The American diplomat stressed that Washington was eager to kick-start its strategic relationship with Cairo anew.

Mr. Kerry said that the U.S. had recently released $575 million in assistance for Egypt's military and that he was confident 10 Apache helicopters would be delivered to Egypt soon.

<snip>

http://online.wsj.com/articles/john-kerry-arrives-in-egypt-on-unannounced-visit-1403426551

I'm betting the Al-J three will be released as an unspoken quid pro quo, but that they've been held for months is vile. al-Sisi is a vile strongman.

The verdict in the al-Jazeera case is due today:

Egypt: Al-Jazeera journalists await trial verdict

Peter Greste, Mohammed Fahmy and Baher Mohamed are accused of spreading false news and supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. They deny the charges.

The case has caused an international outcry, with rights groups saying the trial is politicised.

Australian PM Tony Abbott has appealed to Egyptian President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi for Mr Greste's release.

Prosecutors have asked the judge to sentence the men to between 15 and 25 years in prison.

The court is trying a total of 20 people, including nine al-Jazeera employees.

<snip>

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27969299

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
SHAME on President Obama. SHAME on Secretary Kerry. Egypt. (Original Post) cali Jun 2014 OP
The United States government SamKnause Jun 2014 #1
It does seem that way, doesn't it. cali Jun 2014 #2
I agree with you. Nt newfie11 Jun 2014 #10
Well we gave democracy a chance in Egypt. BlueEye Jun 2014 #11
"We" gave democracy a chance in Egypt? merrily Jun 2014 #15
The Egyptian government and, by extension, the Egyptian people are the recipients of billions... BlueEye Jun 2014 #18
Hmmm. I thought that money was about the Carter-hosted merrily Jun 2014 #22
Indeed. BlueEye Jun 2014 #26
only right wing capitalist dictators Doctor_J Jun 2014 #14
7 years for the Al Jazeera trio (plus another 3 for 1 of them) muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #3
disgusting. could you post that as a stand alone? cali Jun 2014 #4
hard kick. SHAME cali Jun 2014 #5
Kidnapping and torture. Persecution of journalists. Gee, let's send them military aid. Vattel Jun 2014 #6
I find it heartbreaking cali Jun 2014 #7
It is very sad indeed. Vattel Jun 2014 #9
And enraging. woo me with science Jun 2014 #24
Indefensible. nt woo me with science Jun 2014 #42
Boner keeps saying we're broke but we keep giving money to dics rickyhall Jun 2014 #8
And remember ctsnowman Jun 2014 #12
K & R malaise Jun 2014 #13
kick cali Jun 2014 #16
k and r panader0 Jun 2014 #17
K&R woo me with science Jun 2014 #19
Presidents and dictators come and go. The Military Industrial Complex is FOREVER. bullwinkle428 Jun 2014 #20
ain't that the sad truth. cali Jun 2014 #21
Because none of the Presidents who come and go do anything about it. merrily Jun 2014 #23
Thread win (nt) bigwillq Jun 2014 #31
I cannot possibly come up with a compelling argument to your point. bullwinkle428 Jun 2014 #36
that's it G_j Jun 2014 #33
kick woo me with science Jun 2014 #25
Still bitching endlessly about Obama, I see. ROFL kestrel91316 Jun 2014 #27
Pathetic to the nth degree. Jaysus. grow up. cali Jun 2014 #28
Kerry took the "wrong turn down the road somewhere and USA is suffering the consequences?" KoKo Jun 2014 #29
Since you're beating this dead horse in spite of being corrected in another thread Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2014 #30
what dead horse, dear? the administration IS FUCKING RESTORING MILITARY cali Jun 2014 #32
I guess reading isn't your strong point Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2014 #34
No. Reading Isn't YOUR strong point, hon. That has zip to do with the OP cali Jun 2014 #37
Kerry mentioned it the day of the sentencing, while in Iraq karynnj Jun 2014 #43
I'm sick of them getting the money regardless fujiyama Jun 2014 #35
first of all, the U.S. has been withholding aid- and secondly, it's illegal under our cali Jun 2014 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author fujiyama Jun 2014 #40
o.k. UTUSN Jun 2014 #39
kick woo me with science Jun 2014 #41
kick woo me with science Jun 2014 #44

SamKnause

(13,043 posts)
1. The United States government
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 04:42 AM
Jun 2014

always backs dictators and evil assholes.

They are the shit stirrers of the world.

When the citizens of the U.S. wake up and realize that the United States does not believe in Democracy, for this country or any other, maybe things will change.

The number 1 manufacturer of weapons and number 1 exporter of weapons does not want peace or prosperity for the masses.

I am ashamed of my countries government and the destruction it has caused around the globe.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
2. It does seem that way, doesn't it.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 04:55 AM
Jun 2014

I am ashamed of this ugly move. And I hold the administration wholly responsible. It's disgusting.

BlueEye

(449 posts)
11. Well we gave democracy a chance in Egypt.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 06:27 AM
Jun 2014

The result was the Muslim Brotherhood. Not what we wanted, but this administration did accept Morsi's legitimacy. Of course, last summer's events occurred, and I'm sure it threw enough of Obama's advisers for a loop that they decided to fall back on the policy that has worked for the past fifty years, which is supporting dictators.

Ideal? No. Pragmatic... Loaded question, but I would say yes. A rather Machiavellian state of affairs.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
15. "We" gave democracy a chance in Egypt?
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 07:39 AM
Jun 2014

Who are we to give anything in Egypt a chance--or not?

We gave Mubarak a lot more than a chance for decades. The only elected leader in all of Egyptian history, however, lasted what, a year?

I don't think we accepted Morsi all. If we (and our Saudi "friends&quot had, he'd still be President.

No one believed the Shah of Iran, Saddam, Mubarak, the House of Saud, etc. were ever the "legitimately" chosen leaders of their respective nations. And no one believes the Sultan of Brunei is either. Or the Egyptian general/President--the same military that backed Mubarak all those decades. The same military that, during the Egyptian Arab Spring, our generals bragged on TV about having trained.


Our issue in the Middle East is "stability," not democracy. And by stability, I mean whatever has good for New Jersey Standard Oil Esso Exxon. It's been that way since they found oil in the Middle East. And we have never been overly fussy about how people like Saddam and the Sultans and sheiks achieve "stability."

BlueEye

(449 posts)
18. The Egyptian government and, by extension, the Egyptian people are the recipients of billions...
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 12:06 PM
Jun 2014

of dollars from the American taxpayer. That money comes from you and me. My opinions on the distribution and amounts of foreign aid notwithstanding, I feel that as long as Egypt accepts our money, that our government ought to have some say in Egyptian affairs.

It is theoretically possible that our government could use its "purchased" clout to achieve positive goals, which is the case in many of USAID's humanitarian missions. It's unfortunate the Big Oil uses American clout purely to forward their own agenda, but I don't see American hegemony as prima facie unethical.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
22. Hmmm. I thought that money was about the Carter-hosted
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 01:50 PM
Jun 2014

peace treaty between Israel and Egypt.

In any event, I disagree that the US's giving aid to Egypt entitles us to decide who rules the Egyptian people, which is a whale different from having a say in Egyptian affairs.

I don't think it even entitles us to a say in Egyptian affairs, unless that was sorted out up front and Egypt knew what it was getting into. And even then, we have no right to deal with someone like Nasser or Mubarak or anyone else to decide that the Egyptian people are not entitled to be governed by the people they elected or to have the people they elected act in their best interests instead of ours.

If you think that we should use humanitarian aid to achieve our own purposes, then you should at least put quotation marks around "humanitarian" as well as around "purchased."

It's unfortunate the Big Oil uses American clout purely to forward their own agenda, but I don't see American hegemony as prima facie unethical.


LOL. That is way too big a subject for one book, let alone one post. I am sure many people have differeing views on the matter.

BlueEye

(449 posts)
26. Indeed.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 07:05 PM
Jun 2014

Anything that has even a shred of perceived American Exceptionalism is despised on this website, fair enough. I'm not advocating for the status quo in Egypt. I'm simply saying there is a place for the United States in Egypt if their people choose to accept it. I have personally seen some of the work the Peace Corps has done and it's not all bad.

My intent in wading into this one was really to allocate the blame a little more widely. Pinning this all on this administration ("SHAME on Obama" - hyperbole much?) is absurdly myopic and ignores the history you have recounted above.

An interesting discussion either way.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,154 posts)
3. 7 years for the Al Jazeera trio (plus another 3 for 1 of them)
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 05:03 AM
Jun 2014
Three Al Jazeera English journalists have been sentenced to at least seven years in jail in Egypt on charges of aiding the Muslim Brotherhood and reporting false news.

The guilty verdicts were delivered by a judge on Monday against Peter Greste, Mohamed Fahmy and Baher Mohamed.

Greste and Fahmy was sentenced to seven years in jail, while Mohamed was sentenced to an additional three years for possession of ammunition.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/06/egypt-finds-al-jazeera-journalists-guilty-201462373539293797.html
 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
6. Kidnapping and torture. Persecution of journalists. Gee, let's send them military aid.
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 05:59 AM
Jun 2014

(sarcasm)

ctsnowman

(1,903 posts)
12. And remember
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 07:04 AM
Jun 2014

we are going to HAVE to trim back these bloated social spending programs AKA entitlements here at home because we are just broke.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
27. Still bitching endlessly about Obama, I see. ROFL
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 07:50 PM
Jun 2014

And i still have never yet seen you post anything complimentary or appreciative of a damned thing he's done.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
29. Kerry took the "wrong turn down the road somewhere and USA is suffering the consequences?"
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 07:55 PM
Jun 2014

Seriously....What the Heck is going on with him ....these days?

He sounds like he would have fit in with the Romney Administration?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
32. what dead horse, dear? the administration IS FUCKING RESTORING MILITARY
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 08:55 PM
Jun 2014

FUNDING to the piece of shit strongman. got that? And when I did a search I found nothing about Kerry, but big fucking deal. He got suckered and humiliated by Al-Sisi.

Are you going to claim that the sainted JK didn't know about the torture and black sites before sucking up to Al-Sisi?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
37. No. Reading Isn't YOUR strong point, hon. That has zip to do with the OP
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 09:43 PM
Jun 2014

nothing. zilch. nada. grab a clue. or just go back to adoring your sainted heroes and ignoring the obscene truth in the OP.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
43. Kerry mentioned it the day of the sentencing, while in Iraq
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:44 PM
Jun 2014

It was a big enough deal he put out a state department statement, even publicizing it with a tweet. It was covered in several articles. I find it hard that if you googled Kerry and Egypt your browser would not have found it. Not to mention, I ANSWERED your post with a link to the statement.

The US has a strategic relationship with Egypt. No President could appoint a saint as Secretary of State if said saint said he would not speak to anyone he considered evil. Diplomacy requires it. (PS while JK is a very good person, he is likely not to be on the short list for canonization. )

fujiyama

(15,185 posts)
35. I'm sick of them getting the money regardless
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 09:15 PM
Jun 2014

Egypt's record on human rights has been appalling for years now. It was bad under Mubarak and it didn't improve any under Morsi.

But considering the Brotherhood's and Salafist's persecution of the Christian Copts and other minorities in the country over the years (and the uptick in attacks when they were in power), it's hard for me to sympathize too much with them. It's hard for me to associate in any way with theocrats even when they're opposing repressive regimes.

Granted, persecution of journalists in just plain wrong regardless of who is doing it. But the US hasn't pulled their military aid to Egypt all these years. What's to make them all of a sudden stop now?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
38. first of all, the U.S. has been withholding aid- and secondly, it's illegal under our
Mon Jun 23, 2014, 09:46 PM
Jun 2014

laws to continue aid in the wake of a military coup- read Senator Leahy on that. Oh, and what is going on now is fucking far worse than what went on under Morsi, but then again you apparently are fine with the torture of liberals and others.

congrats.

Response to cali (Reply #38)

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