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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs DU turning into Anti-cop blog
Four to five posts each day about police brutality, police misconduct, police abuse. Each of us have our own agenda within the framework of DU. Some post this, some that. But they have to do with liberal issues - except for the cat postings . But, why the constant and daily cop bashing? What are we to distill from this? A causal reader at DU would surmise what from these postings? Are we the now the anti-cop blog? Are DU'ers anti-cop? Has DU become the police policing the police? Are liberals anti-cop or are we against (as I hope we all are) violence perpetrated by any individual, any group?
I have had my run-ins and experiences with police. I have seen them act with anger, passion, concern, and force. Their's is not an easy job but I sincerely believe they are the glue that is holding the center together. Get rid of the assholes who abuse their position, but let us have some balance on this.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)escalating police misconduct both in the frequency and brutality of the incidents.
Its a serious problem.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)Then expect it to be commented on here.
When they do good things publicise that as well
Orrex
(63,057 posts)1. When a bad cop does something bad, someone usually posts a snarkily preemptive comment about good cops, a la "It's ok that he killed those kids, because someone will post a picture of the cop with the milk."
or
2. When a good cop does something good, someone usually posts a snarky comment about the good cop being a very rare exception or else deriding the poster as a "cop cheerleader" or the like.
atreides1
(16,039 posts)Serious question...
Orrex
(63,057 posts)Nearly any definition of a "good cop" will generate a response of "well, that's his/her job, or it's supposed to be."
Let me instead ask you a question for clarification: what, in your estimation, defines someone as a "good" worker in any field? What's a good waitress? What's a good construction worker? What's a good nephrologist?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)A good waitress gets my order right, is pleasant, is efficient. A bad waitress is careless, either getting my order wrong because they have an overinflated opinion of their ability to remember what I ordered rather than writing it down, or in not communicating it well to the kitchen. A bad waitress also takes her stress with other people out on me, even when I'm being pleasant myself, or even abuses her power by doing things like spitting in the food to amuse herself, or simply because she can.
Competence, dedication, and honesty goes a long way in any job. Abusing the power your position gives you, abusing people over whom you have power always makes one bad at that job.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)That express anti-police views ... it has always been this way since I first arrived here some 12 years ago ...
What do you want? .... you want that they just shut up?
You want them to stop talking about what they believe? ...
Expecting all DUers to conform to your way of thinking seems pretty absurd ... I don't see it happening ... you will always be disappointed . ....
packman
(16,296 posts)to conform to my way to thinking. Gave up on that after my first post. And yes, I was disappointed when they didn't agree with me that Dick Cheney was a swell guy.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)shouldn't that be the bigger question?
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)make us comment on how well they do their jobs and how helpful they are on a daily basis?
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)I don't get daily pats on my back for doing my job, but were i too steal from my job, I would never hear the end of it.
on a side note: i am all for police getting adequate compensation for doing their jobs.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,753 posts)damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)So they say.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Is this about the cop who had to shoot a 95-year-old who didn't want to go to the hospital and thought the cane looked like a knife? When cops do stuff like that, there's going to be blowback.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I agree that these instances should be reported on DU. I do think the reports should be current, or updates on previous reports. And they might be a little more readable if they were included in a single post.... with multiple posts only one or two will get read and commented on.
JVS
(61,935 posts)But I was surprised to find out how low an opinion of Child Protective Services DU has. Such contempt for them is usually demonstrated only by rabid government haters on the right wing who consider CPS an expensive government program and intrusive on parents' rights to control their kids.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)at people failing kids.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)for taking toddlers out of homes when the parents have been found to be pot users or somesuch, then placing them in foster homes where the kids end up murdered by the foster parents. That doesn't give them much of a good rep.
Michigander_Life
(549 posts)They remind me of the people who eat up the hoax-for-sympathy stories hook, line and sinker. There are bad cops doing bad things and they need to be exposed. But it's far less systemic than one would believe based on some of the inflammatory posts and links here.
All cops should be required to wear (and use) body cameras during every interaction with the public. I think that would vindicate most of the cops who get accused of misconduct and it would expose the few who actually engage in misconduct, or keep them from engaging in the misconduct in the first place.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)liberal N proud
(60,289 posts)MineralMan
(146,116 posts)post those news stories. Since there's no limit to the number of posts a DU can post, it's easy for even one person to make GD look like a one-subject forum for a while. Typically, such posters post multiple stories over a short period of time, so they tend to clump together.
There are a number of pet topics that individual DUers post regularly. It's the nature of DU.
Beaverhausen
(24,464 posts)Many come from a website called "police state.com" and sometimes stories that are 4-5 years old.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)There are never any calls for citizen review boards or getting into local politics to effect change. My cousin became the mayor of a small town running on eliminating all corruption, including the police. It didn't require money to do so as he didn't have any. That's not being advocated in those threads, just more 'starve the beast' which actually makes the problem worse.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I'm constantly seeing new news stories of cops behaving brutally on tv, pretty much every week.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)look bad? It is not their actions that concern you, but the fact that people speak of those actions? Seriously?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)to examine your priorities.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Can't find 5 positive stories a day about cops to post from all over America?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Thought I saw it here on DU, no less.
Rex
(65,616 posts)If so many people here are worried about DU's image...then just start posting more pro-cop stories...surely they can find thousands and thousands a day.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)but then I'm a white suburban male with a rather conservative look about me. Short hair, polo shirts, etc.
The two times I actually called them about break-ins, I basically got told 'lock your doors and windows', and nothing was ever done to actually try and catch whoever had broken in. That didn't leave me all that impressed with the effectiveness of either police force I was dealing with at the time. They seemed far more interested in ticketing people they actually saw breaking the law in real time than in trying to solve crimes that had occurred when they weren't on hand to witness it. There certainly was no 'dusting for fingerprints', examining of footprints (one burglar helpfully had stepped in a low dish I was growing houseplants in, leaving a beautifully clear footprint'), or any other attempt to treat the area as a crime scene with evidence to try and determine who the criminal was.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Many posts about politicians are negative too. That doesn't make the blog an anti-politician blog. It means folks on the blog dislike bad actions by politicians.
Police policies that allow bad actions by police need reformed. Police are supposed to 'protect and serve' the populace. ALL of the populace, including the parts of the populace who are homeless or mentally ill. And that means not leaping instantly to using lethal force in any situation that could potentially be dangerous, but first working to verbally de-escalate tense situations.
And not firing hundreds of rounds into disabled vehicles, not shooting homeless people in the back, not shooting people on the ground in handcuffs, not treating every petty drug sweep as a military action, burning infants with 'flash grenades', not shooting family pets, etc, etc, etc.
This is not being 'anti-police'. This is saying it's long past time for the police to start policing themselves, as well as the rest of us. to get rid of the people who signed up for the chance to be petty tyrants or who enjoy committing acts of violence upon the weak or defenseless.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Aristus
(65,985 posts)dogs, widows, physically and developmentally disabled people, scared and/or stoned teenagers, peaceful protestors, recent immigrants with a shaky command of English, etc., any time the immediate situation calls for more than a simple "Do you know how fast you were going, sir/son/ma'am?
Shooting first, asking questions never, and then falling into the arms of the Policemens' Benevolent Association when the going gets rough, is not good policework.
I grew up with a sense of massive respect for police officers and the good work many of them do for their communities. But this trigger-happy approach to law enforcement has got to stop...
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Police are the embodiment of "The Man's" power and control, and the tools through which authoritarianism is enforced.
There have been "anti-cop" liberals for as long as liberals have existed.
Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)lie about how things went down, plant evidence, etc. The copd are becoming too militarized in too many places, and their hiring standards seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel and they are getting all of the psychopaths on their payrolls.
Please feel free to post stories of cops doing good things for people... but that barely makes the news because, as mentioned above, that's what they get PAID to do... Serve & Protect!
I know some good cops, and I know some crooked ass cops that shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun or interact with the public in any official capacity.
Peace,
Ghost
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)There's too much unquestioning respect from some people for the police, honestly. The USA is a borderline police state, in many respects, with paramilitary police forces (where Apache helicopters and urban assault tanks are common items in the arsenal of typical urban police departments, along with MP5 submachine guns and grenade launchers and many other things besides), and with lethal use of force by police justified under the rubric of "fighting the drug war", or something equally stupid ("oh, he had a cane! Or was reaching for something that turned out to be a phone, or his wallet! I had to shoot him!"
If there were less police brutality, less police misconduct, and less killing of civilians by police who've fucked up their job, maybe people wouldn't post about it? Just a thought.
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)Is increasing police brutality a byproduct of the intensely high crime and murder rate in the USA? Or, does police brutality create the environment and conditions for high crime rates and murder?
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)It is in fact lower than it's been at any time in the past fifty or sixty years, if not longer. The murder rate of 4.8 per 100k is significantly higher than in other developed countries, but is the lowest it's been in the USA since WWII.
http://news.discovery.com/human/violent-crime-statistics-120612.htm
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)I wonder if there is also a proven increase in police brutality statistics. That would be weird if they could correlate increased brutality with decreased crime rates. But, according to your link, the reason given was that more young people commit crime, and there are less young people now.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Others include a potential link between criminal violence and neurotoxicity from environmental lead (the phaseout of lead from motor fuel and paints was followed after a short time lag by a marked decline in violent crime). See this, for instance: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline
And the police in decades past weren't as excessively militarised as they are now. These days rural police departments have SWAT teams.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)just let us know.
packman
(16,296 posts)Every time a post about police brutality is given it seems it is directed toward the individual officer while I believe the community-the county-the state in which it occurred should be the first thing stated so the anger should be directed at that governmental agency which hired and trained these type of police. Again, what is the purpose of this type of posting which shows individual acts of uncivilized, brutal actions of an agency whose prime function MUST be to protect and serve? If one posts for titillation and shock or because they were wronged by the police and acting out of some degree of vengeance, I believe DU is no place for it.
Your post is directed at me personally so I'll reply in kind, it is snitty and a cheap shot.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and you don't want DUers broad brushing cops with stories of police brutality (actual instances...) however, you began this thread by broad brushing DUers as universally anti cop and when asked for an example that this is universal, you write that I took a cheap shot.
try harder man.
you don't deserve a good response when you type crap.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)He was asking you to be more specific.
Most of us appreciate good police work, but some of the police brutality videos posted of late have been appalling. What is it we're not to discuss?
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)personal attacks are about all he's got
admin advises to ignore him: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12595593
MADem
(135,425 posts)If they're in the news doing something good, we see posts like this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024836957
If they do something negative, that gets posted too.
There is NO LIMIT on how many posts a person can make, and there's no limit on starting threads.
If you believe a POV is under-represented, do your part and post those stories that you feel accurately reflects the reality.
Here, start a thread with this link if you'd like:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/officer-pulls-woman-from-railroad-tracks-seconds-before-train-arrives/26623100
otohara
(24,135 posts)they don't think much of us either.
When I was walking back to my car from an Occupy event back when Occupy was happening, I stopped to talk to a couple cops who were sitting in their car chewing and spitting tobacco - They repeatedly called the protesters scumbags, dirtbags and other names. I said, Wow, I've never been called a scumbag before. Oh no, not you Miss.
The police scare me - I don't like nor trust them and I think they feel the same towards us.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)They are the Government representative that most people are likely to come in contact with. If they are abusive they color the entire perception of the Government. If they act with impunity, it indicates a failure of the Government.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)is a standard oversight function of the civilian population.
Police represent the state, the state must be kept in line.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025143646
Some law enforcement agencies, such as narcotic divisions are waste of taxpayer dollars.
marmar
(76,945 posts)zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)It's probably more accurate to say that there is a strong under current of belief that the police forces have become far to militarized, especially since 9/11 and you're seeing people attempting to regularly display this nature.
They have the impossible job, part social worker, part meter maid, part traffic cop, part body guard. The result has been that an environment has been created to empower them with "procedures" that allow the kinds of excesses that are posted here daily, and there are few if any consequences. That environment tends to be self perpetuating, and worse yet attract the people that will enjoy that kind of power.
Their behavior across this country in dealing with the Occupy protestors was a prime example of how it is not one department, or a "few bad apples", but a systemic part of their behavior and procedures in this country. This does need to change.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)Because I see people in a position of absolute power over us get away with heinous crimes against us. All for the sake of "keeping the peace". I realize as a society that we need a police force. But they are becoming untouchable. I want them walking on eggshells. They're supposed to be highly trained. I see story after story of out of control,cops and they sit at home on administrative leave which amounts to a fucking vacation. Never feeling the discomfort and pain they caused their victims. Fuck the police. I will never respect them until I see heads roll once in awhile.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)People who are authorized to carry guns and use deadly force, authorized to physically overcome you, restrain you, and arrest you, and who are automatically given more credibility on the witness stand by juries if they testify against you had better make every effort to try to be as near perfect as possible in the execution of their duties. They're humans and not perfect, but when they're bad, it's especially dreadful because of their powers. I wish police personnel files were open to public inspection and not privileged, so we could find out if repeat abusers of power are serving on the force. Mark Fuhrman supposedly had tons of egregious behavior in his personnel file that Judge Ito ruled out. One witness came forward, an orthodox Rabbi and his wife who told the media he'd been badly beaten by Mark Fuhrman on the street and of course there were Mark Fuhrman's videotaped interviews with a writer using the "n" word repeatedly (even though he denied ever using it on the witness stand and relied on his personnel file being closed to view). We know that Fuhrman boasted of beating up blacks and Hispanics for fun. The one main thing I took away from after the OJ case (besides the fact he was guilty and got off) was how despicable the police behaved in that case. Detective Philip Vannatter lied repeatedly on the stand and was embarrassed on cross examination.
By the way, I don't think the police are behaving more badly than before. When I lived in Georgia in the 1960s, I remember my mother getting upset over the fact the police shot and killed a 12 year old black kid who lived down the street. They shot him in the back as he was running away from them and he was unarmed. I just think these things are now getting recorded on cell phones and the like, a technology that didn't exist before.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Response to packman (Original post)
damnedifIknow This message was self-deleted by its author.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)Threads about police misconduct draw a lot of badge-sniffers and authoritarians who maintain that the police can do no wrong and it was always the victim's fault.
War Horse
(931 posts)And themes here change regularly. We've got everything from extreme left wing anarchists to reformed Republicans here.
It's pretty messy here right now, inevitably. Without mods it will only get messier, I fear, with people just putting each other on ignore and going on with their own agendas.
Separation
(1,975 posts)What blows me away is that there are some here that have no issue at all with the militarization of local police offices. Small towns getting MRAP's and armored personel carriers and tons of other equipment. That actually blew my mind.
I'm not pro or anti cop. But I am against the militarization of civilian police force, I am against a person getting away with a crime that if I or you had committed we would be in prison or death row.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)...and at the risk being labeled a "badge sniffer," look at the militarization of our society. Used to be a cop went to someone's house, the worst he could expect was a drunk with a .38.
Now look at the Bundy Ranch, or these anti-government assholes that seem to be cropping up all over the country. I firmly believe that a cop has the right to go home at the end of his shift in one piece, and given that the gun manufacturers can make AR-15's fast enough for distribution to these "patriots," the cops have to arm themselves appropriately.
With regard to brutality, cops who go rogue was worse scum than the criminals they pursue. I don't expect any better from a meth dealer, but I do expect and demand more from the police. They want our trust? They want the public to help them do their jobs better? They have to earn it. NOBODY should be harder on a dirty cop than the cops themselves, but the "thin blue line" is still a thing. Unfortunately.
Separation
(1,975 posts)In your case, the cops weren't used. They should have picked Koresh up in town on his normal scheduled visits to town.
Instead the ATF, not a beat cop, Joe Friday, stormed the compound. We all know how that turned out. IMO the police are here to DE-escalate the situation, and keep the peace. Peacekeepers, Serve and Protect, that sorta thing.
Now I am not saying that they shouldn't have M-4's, or other long guns so they are not outgunned in a situation. Or a SWAT team even, recent events such as school shooting show that a SWAT team is needed.
Militarization of the police is completely differant.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Did you mean to reply to someone else?
Confused.
Separation
(1,975 posts)Now look at the Bundy Ranch, or these anti-government assholes that seem to be cropping up all over the country.
A misread on my part, thought you mentioned Koresh. Still though, for the most part it was federal officers at the Bundy ranch. Not your beat cop with his .38 walking up to Bundy telling him to turn his cattle over.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)But an AR-15 can literally turn up anywhere these days, along with some lunatic wearing a Kevlar vest.
alp227
(31,943 posts)rather than "just asking questions", a rather Glenn Beck style of argumentation?
1000words
(7,051 posts)In honor of our brave men and women in blue:
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)If those threads annoy you, trash them
If you are trying to steer how people post here. how frequently and on what subject, get lost.
packman
(16,296 posts)it hurts.
Uncle Joe
(58,029 posts)I believe they are.
Thanks for the thread, packman.
Response to packman (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.