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MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 10:54 AM Jun 2014

Regional speech patterns or just laziness?

While it's always been fairly common to use elision while speaking to simplify speech, it seems to be epidemic these days. I'm hearing those omissions of syllables and even whole words more and more from everyone, including media news readers and in advertising. At one time, the examples below seemed to me to be regional speech patterns, I'm beginning to wonder if they're not evolving into almost universal speech patterns. I can't imagine what a new English speaker makes of things like:

I'ma, I'muna, Ahmo - "I'm going to" elided variants, with the last one being clearly regional. I heard the I'ma one yesterday in a radio ad, in the line "I'ma give you the phone number in a second."

Presen'ited States - This elided version of "President of the United States" is pretty extreme, but I haven't heard anything but this from news readers, pundits and others for a long time.

Constitution'ited States - Similar to the above, but this time a severe elision of "Constitution of the United States."

Who has other examples of or thoughts on this speech trend?

114 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Regional speech patterns or just laziness? (Original Post) MineralMan Jun 2014 OP
Don't blame the South. dawg Jun 2014 #1
I didn't mention any region, and only gave MineralMan Jun 2014 #5
What I find interesting about those extra syllables: merrily Jun 2014 #9
Regional accents and colloquialisms fascinate me. There are lots of parallels between ... dawg Jun 2014 #24
You might want to wander into the Massachusetts forum for a minute. merrily Jun 2014 #43
I got pegged as a "yankee" madamesilverspurs Jun 2014 #52
I think "grits" might be two syllables in Maine as well. merrily Jun 2014 #55
OK, how does one get a second syllable in "grits"? ManiacJoe Jun 2014 #110
GREE-yuts madamesilverspurs Jun 2014 #111
What are you saying? Milk has only one syllable? Arkansas Granny Jun 2014 #11
LOL, bless your heart. MineralMan Jun 2014 #23
Hey, Granny--how is your little feral kitty doing? nt tblue37 Jun 2014 #71
lol!! Sissyk Jun 2014 #19
Except for words like "Y'all". randome Jun 2014 #54
That's not a dropped syllable. dawg Jun 2014 #59
"N'Awlins," and its slightly less drawled cousin, "N'Orlins" tblue37 Jun 2014 #72
Nyorlins. dawg Jun 2014 #86
We never had a "y" sound in our "N'Orlins." I did stretch my tblue37 Jun 2014 #112
Hey now, it does have two syllables with our drawl, which I happen to like. redqueen Jun 2014 #113
It's like spoken texting. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2014 #2
I guess it bothers me most when I hear it from news anchors MineralMan Jun 2014 #8
Where's Professor Higgins when you need him? betsuni Jun 2014 #77
One more complaint betsuni Jun 2014 #78
Another one more complaint betsuni Jun 2014 #84
You can thank Southern California and Valley Girls for that, it happened due to flamingdem Jun 2014 #79
It was the nannies! betsuni Jun 2014 #81
That, I agree with. redqueen Jun 2014 #114
Does it really matter? In certain parts of the country you wouldn't be understood either. nt kelliekat44 Jun 2014 #3
Actually, that's not true. I have never had any difficulty MineralMan Jun 2014 #12
Perhaps those erstwhile misunderstandings are washed away by your overwhelming humility Orrex Jun 2014 #34
Splutter! dixiegrrrrl Jun 2014 #47
There was a large amount of win Aerows Jun 2014 #107
ell-oh-ell! unblock Jun 2014 #4
I'm finta alert on this. Ron Green Jun 2014 #6
Well, when you get through fixing to do that, MineralMan Jun 2014 #25
I gree. nt clarice Jun 2014 #7
I've only heard the first. gollygee Jun 2014 #10
They are. Listen closely and you'll hear both of them. MineralMan Jun 2014 #17
Just heard Joe Biden say something very close to "Vice Presen'ited States of America" Chiyo-chichi Jun 2014 #90
Yup. Just about everyone does it. MineralMan Jun 2014 #91
I hadn't noticed that one... Chiyo-chichi Jun 2014 #96
dancin' Armstead Jun 2014 #13
The twittering down of America. Skidmore Jun 2014 #14
How bout the people who leave out the R's when it's actually IN the word.... clarice Jun 2014 #15
Those are purely regional accents and manners of speech. MineralMan Jun 2014 #18
The r's travel. missingthebigdog Jun 2014 #58
LOL....I hear yer. nt clarice Jun 2014 #62
But other countries don't have regional speech.... Dreamer Tatum Jun 2014 #16
Of course they do. MineralMan Jun 2014 #20
Or it could be that we don't truly have regions anymore. Dreamer Tatum Jun 2014 #26
Your example is in broader use than that. MineralMan Jun 2014 #28
Actually, that burnishes my point. Dreamer Tatum Jun 2014 #29
Dippy Eggs. That's a nice one. MineralMan Jun 2014 #35
But soft-boiled eggs are "eggy in a cuppy eggs." nt tblue37 Jun 2014 #74
Wuts dippy aigs? TexasProgresive Jun 2014 #39
That is a Germanic language trait. You'll find it in tblue37 Jun 2014 #73
Interesting. Thanks. MineralMan Jun 2014 #100
Absolutely; just look how Latin has changed since the time of Cicero. eShirl Jun 2014 #21
Language changes for precisely those reasons among others. nt Bonobo Jun 2014 #22
Of course. Language is never static. MineralMan Jun 2014 #27
I live in New Mexico abakan Jun 2014 #65
I grew up in a California farm town. MineralMan Jun 2014 #66
eye know huh ? NM_Birder Jun 2014 #97
I don't think so... abakan Jun 2014 #101
"inhabitants of Burqe" freakin hilarious NM_Birder Jun 2014 #106
Or "goodbye," from "God be with you." nt tblue37 Jun 2014 #75
Elision and reduction of consonant clusters is a normal feature of language Spider Jerusalem Jun 2014 #30
My favorite is the Boston neighborhood of Dorchester TexasProgresive Jun 2014 #40
Dot's wert's at! Eleanors38 Jun 2014 #83
"Ima," I think, is a bit of a joke of sorts . . . kickitup Jun 2014 #31
Kanye West didn't invent I'ma, though. MineralMan Jun 2014 #37
Yeah, Ima Hogg TexasProgresive Jun 2014 #41
I remember Ima Hogg. It was giggle worthy many years ago. MineralMan Jun 2014 #42
She was famous in Houston TexasProgresive Jun 2014 #44
Whenja Gimmee Jenoch Jun 2014 #32
I'ma object to your excessive use of elision/elided Orrex Jun 2014 #33
You have used several contractions throughout this thread, Tanuki Jun 2014 #36
Quite correct. MineralMan Jun 2014 #38
This is English evolving in the way spoken languages always do. KitSileya Jun 2014 #45
Absolutely. MineralMan Jun 2014 #46
Also "Slough", in Berkshire (rhymes with "bough") Spider Jerusalem Jun 2014 #50
Nice example. MineralMan Jun 2014 #51
Well, considering I teach EFL in Norway, KitSileya Jun 2014 #61
Vonnegut commented very well on this, as on so much else: Orrex Jun 2014 #49
People really say... 3catwoman3 Jun 2014 #57
Clarification:"He was sat" is a substitution of either the simple past tense or the past participle tblue37 Jun 2014 #76
That's not a trend. That's normal. knitter4democracy Jun 2014 #48
"Co'cola" madamesilverspurs Jun 2014 #53
In California, it was just Coke. MineralMan Jun 2014 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author flamingdem Jun 2014 #80
language changes and when it does every generation fights for the purity of the language that they La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2014 #60
We're re-watching The Story of English by Robert MacNeil and it retains its fascination Hekate Jun 2014 #63
I LOVED that series when I saw it in the 80's! pink-o Jun 2014 #67
I've noticed a general tendency on TV rock Jun 2014 #64
midwest urban youth-speak "fitn-na" salin Jun 2014 #68
I only notice Tree-Hugger Jun 2014 #69
Ever since I transferred Jamaal510 Jun 2014 #70
The "th" sound and the lazy theory flamingdem Jun 2014 #82
It's a living language...What do you want? Blue_Tires Jun 2014 #85
The DC terms POTUS and FLOTUS are either signs of rampant laziness LiberalEsto Jun 2014 #87
Acronyms. Everyone loves 'em. MineralMan Jun 2014 #88
BLOTUS plays a role too LiberalEsto Jun 2014 #102
First time I've seen that one. MineralMan Jun 2014 #103
I just made it up LiberalEsto Jun 2014 #105
Hey! You know how we can ALL tell that MineralMan is not a trained linguist? Romulox Jun 2014 #89
I'm not. Just a writer. MineralMan Jun 2014 #92
We're ALL writers, here. This is a political message board, not your own blog. nt Romulox Jun 2014 #93
Oh, OK. As you say. MineralMan Jun 2014 #94
Obviously, if people read your blogs, you wouldn't need so many off topic vanity posts here. Romulox Jun 2014 #95
Thanks for taking so much interest in my activities. MineralMan Jun 2014 #99
"baby mamma" It should be legal to throat punch anyone who uses that. NM_Birder Jun 2014 #98
I'm not really much into punching people in the throat. MineralMan Jun 2014 #104
I think the only time I had trouble with regional speech patterns... NCTraveler Jun 2014 #108
This word compression has been going on forever ... Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #109

dawg

(10,595 posts)
1. Don't blame the South.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:03 AM
Jun 2014

Not only will we not drop any syllables, we'll throw in a few extra ones just for fun.

My Mom can get more than one syllable out of the word "milk".

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
5. I didn't mention any region, and only gave
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:06 AM
Jun 2014

a single example of an elision I think is probably regional, the "Ahmo" example. It's the same elision as the others, but with an accent.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
9. What I find interesting about those extra syllables:
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:08 AM
Jun 2014

The South provides them, but so Maine. For example, in either of those place, you can go to a two syllable "store." But in the states between the South and Maine, you will have to buy your bread in a one syllable store.

How do you suppose that happened?

dawg

(10,595 posts)
24. Regional accents and colloquialisms fascinate me. There are lots of parallels between ...
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:15 AM
Jun 2014

regions that you would not expect.

For that matter, the notion of a "Southern" accent is a major oversimplification. My accent is more of an Appalachian accent. People from the Southern part of my state sound dramatically different from me.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
43. You might want to wander into the Massachusetts forum for a minute.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 12:10 PM
Jun 2014

Coincidentally, before I saw this thread, Manny and I were talking about Paul Revere's accent, the Maine accent, etc. on the Boston clean water thread there.

In Boston, accents can differ from one Boston neighborhood to another--and the city is not huge. I think it may depend on whether an area got yuppified enough, or whether it remains mostly Irish or Italian or Chinese or whatever.

Another thing. Baba Wawa's r issue. It is not unique to her. When I first moved to Boston, I heard others with that same speech issue, including African Americans.

Where else you hear that r --besides in the speech of some toddlers--is in the speech of the British upper classes, including the royals. In some French people speaking English, too. In England, apparently, it's at home and not at all a problem. Apparently, it was once at home in parts of Massachusetts, though I don't hear it anymore. But, in US broadcasting, it was a speech defect and her network sent her to speech therapy and more than one female SNLer mocked her mercilessly for it.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
110. OK, how does one get a second syllable in "grits"?
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:51 PM
Jun 2014

Being from Maine, I understand the Yankee R in "sto-ah".

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
54. Except for words like "Y'all".
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:13 PM
Jun 2014

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

tblue37

(64,860 posts)
72. "N'Awlins," and its slightly less drawled cousin, "N'Orlins"
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 10:07 PM
Jun 2014

are ones I carried north with me when I moved from the deep south at age 12 1/2. That word, and "mirra" (for "mirror&quot made me an exotic creature to my new northeastern PA classmates, just as their pronunciation of the letter "haitch" (i.e., "h&quot and their comments about things needing "washed" (as in "That shirt needs washed&quot made their speech patterns seem alien to me.

I later learned that the Pennsylvania Dutch dialect (i.e., Germanized English) had a major influence on their speech.

dawg

(10,595 posts)
86. Nyorlins.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 09:47 AM
Jun 2014

You left out the "y".

To this day, I still say something similar to "New Orlins." I certainly do not say "New Or-leens" like the Northerners do.

tblue37

(64,860 posts)
112. We never had a "y" sound in our "N'Orlins." I did stretch my
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 05:23 PM
Jun 2014

pronunciation out a bit after I'd been in Pennsylvania for a while--to the same "New Orlins" you use. I have never been able to stand the sound of the Northerners' "New Or-leens" for some reason. It just grates on me.

redqueen

(115,085 posts)
113. Hey now, it does have two syllables with our drawl, which I happen to like.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:09 PM
Jun 2014


I like regional speech myself. I would hate it if everyone spoke in the Queen's English.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,070 posts)
2. It's like spoken texting.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:03 AM
Jun 2014

And I hate it. It makes people sound illiterate and stupid, and you hear it all the time in ads, like they think it's cute or clever. I think it's a combination of laziness and a desire to seem hip or something. I hate it. And get off my lawn, you lazy-tongued hipster slacker losers.

betsuni

(25,062 posts)
77. Where's Professor Higgins when you need him?
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:06 AM
Jun 2014

It's news anchors and people who speak in public all the time that bother me too -- their voices are an important tool in their toolbox, yet they don't seem concerned about fixing mannerisms. Sometimes I'll have a news panel show on and it sounds like shrieking tropical birds. The uptalk, the rising tones at the end of sentences that aren't questions, that drives me nuts. Usually the Uptalkers speak very quickly and wave their hands around and use "like" and I want Henry Higgins to scream at them and shove marbles in their mouths.

betsuni

(25,062 posts)
78. One more complaint
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:57 AM
Jun 2014

I hear even news anchors and announcers say "large amounts of people" and "less people." People come in amounts now.

betsuni

(25,062 posts)
84. Another one more complaint
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:34 AM
Jun 2014

Help, I can't stop. Last time I saw the news there was a question about Iraq, "How will events there affect the Homeland?" Then coverage of tornadoes in the "Heartland." The nervous twitch in my left eyelid returns... How can I not think about Nazis every time I hear those words, how? That's another thing I can't seem to get used to.

flamingdem

(39,300 posts)
79. You can thank Southern California and Valley Girls for that, it happened due to
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:06 AM
Jun 2014

their Mexican immigrant nannies who spoke with uptalk in their Spanish accents.

I really despise it as well. Yeeech! Even highly educated women use that style.

betsuni

(25,062 posts)
81. It was the nannies!
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:17 AM
Jun 2014

Thanks, I didn't know that. I've had to turn off news programs when guests or reporters approaching middle-age still talk that way. According to the Uptalkers, it's becoming a standard American speech pattern and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Australians complain about uptalk, but I don't mind it so much because it seems to blend in better with the sound of Australian English.

redqueen

(115,085 posts)
114. That, I agree with.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:13 PM
Jun 2014

I absolutely hate hearing slang from reporters and anchors.

It is just not excusable, just like grammar and usage errors in the press. Typos are one thing - grammar and usage errors are quite another.

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
12. Actually, that's not true. I have never had any difficulty
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:10 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)

making myself understood in any part of the United States. I speak with a midwestern/California accent, and sound like a network news anchor. And I do pronounce all of the words. There are no misunderstandings in that direction. I'm also familiar with almost every regional accent in the US, so I have no problem understanding others. I like language.

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
17. They are. Listen closely and you'll hear both of them.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

You'll hear "Presen'ited States" more often than the other example, though. There aren't that many news stories about the "Constitution'ited States." Most Americans appear to be unfamiliar with that document.

Chiyo-chichi

(3,557 posts)
90. Just heard Joe Biden say something very close to "Vice Presen'ited States of America"
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:07 AM
Jun 2014

Last night's Daily Show.
At about the 2 minute mark in this segment: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/xyf39z/poor---off

Little bit of a "u" sound in there, but he omitted about 4 syllables.

Chiyo-chichi

(3,557 posts)
96. I hadn't noticed that one...
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:18 AM
Jun 2014

Though I'm interested in such things as a speechwriter with a background in theatre. I used to know the International Phonetic Alphabet well and still have a copy of Kenyon & Knott's Pronouncing Dictionary of American English within arm's reach.

I thought of this thread when I heard Biden say it that way.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
13. dancin'
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:10 AM
Jun 2014

Where I live in New England, we tend cotract words and put the accent on strange places so it comes out like "dancin' or Hunin.

 

clarice

(5,504 posts)
15. How bout the people who leave out the R's when it's actually IN the word....
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

and add the R's were they don't belong?

"I'm going to warsh my caaaa"

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
58. The r's travel.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:25 PM
Jun 2014

People in the Northeast drop them from words like "park" and "car," and they float through the atmosphere and land here in the south in words like "warsh," "idear," and "sawr."

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
20. Of course they do.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jun 2014

Personally, I think the elisions I'm mentioning have nothing to do with regional speech patterns. They seem to be almost universal these days, which prompted this thread.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
26. Or it could be that we don't truly have regions anymore.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:17 AM
Jun 2014

These days you are liable to meet someone from anywhere, or hear them on TV or on the web.

That's what I remind myself when I hear Pittsburgh speech like, "The dog needs fed." Ugh. Makes my ears hurt.

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
28. Your example is in broader use than that.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:19 AM
Jun 2014

It's also common in Minnesota. "My car needs fixed," for example, or "That house needs painted." Those drive me bonkers. Is 'to be" all that difficult to say? Really...

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
29. Actually, that burnishes my point.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:21 AM
Jun 2014

Pittsburghese and other patterns get propagated when others hear them, so you get people in Texas suddenly ordering "dippy eggs."

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
35. Dippy Eggs. That's a nice one.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:55 AM
Jun 2014

Be careful where you order those, though. You could get your eggs, as I say, "sunny side up" or soft-boiled. They're both "dippy eggs," depending on where you are.

tblue37

(64,860 posts)
73. That is a Germanic language trait. You'll find it in
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 10:11 PM
Jun 2014

areas influenced by German or Scandinavian settlers, like the Amish in Pennsylvania and the Scandinavian settlers in Minnesota.

eShirl

(18,462 posts)
21. Absolutely; just look how Latin has changed since the time of Cicero.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:14 AM
Jun 2014

Why, he would barely recognize modern speech in modern Rome, let alone how the language has changed in other parts of Europe..

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
27. Of course. Language is never static.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:18 AM
Jun 2014

I just find extreme elision that involves dropping multiple syllables in spoken language to be a little alarming, somehow.

On the other hand, there is o'clock, which finally resolved into a standard written form of "of the clock." It's a process, for sure.

abakan

(1,814 posts)
65. I live in New Mexico
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:25 PM
Jun 2014

I find bits and pieces of spanish becoming, more and more, a part of my my spoken language.

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
66. I grew up in a California farm town.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 07:36 PM
Jun 2014

Learning Spanish was almost automatic. I never took a Spanish class, but can converse easily wit Spanish speakers. It's interesting.

abakan

(1,814 posts)
101. I don't think so...
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:55 AM
Jun 2014

Birder as in raising or shooting? I also make lemon vodka..It is great but very drunk making...

 

NM_Birder

(1,591 posts)
106. "inhabitants of Burqe" freakin hilarious
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 02:15 PM
Jun 2014

girlfriend is a bird watching machine, I can occasionally be convinced into going ............ but not during any hunting season
 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
30. Elision and reduction of consonant clusters is a normal feature of language
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:21 AM
Jun 2014

and happens quite frequently in English. How do you pronounce "temperature" and "comfortable"? (Probably not as written.) Although in an American context one would probably presume that any "president" and "constitution" being referred to, without any further descriptors, to be the American ones and not those of some other country.

And elision isn't any more "epidemic" now than formerly; most of the pronunciation change due to elision happened out of living memory, though -- it's much more common in the UK and in some American placenames of British derivation; "Worcester" for instance, or "Norwich" -- but also "Wednesday" and "February" and lots and lots of others that are now commonplace.

kickitup

(355 posts)
31. "Ima," I think, is a bit of a joke of sorts . . .
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:24 AM
Jun 2014

as I see younger people use it on Facebook in a joking manner. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Imma+let+you+finish attributes the rise of "Imma" to Kanye West.

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
37. Kanye West didn't invent I'ma, though.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:57 AM
Jun 2014

He used it famously, but it's been around for a very long time.

TexasProgresive

(12,147 posts)
41. Yeah, Ima Hogg
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 12:07 PM
Jun 2014

Famous daughter of Governor Jim Hogg of Texas, and no, she did not have a sibling named Ura.

TexasProgresive

(12,147 posts)
44. She was famous in Houston
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 12:26 PM
Jun 2014

as I was growing up- a really great lady. She died when I was about 25. I never heard a bad word about her, just the odd snicker at her name. She supported many good causes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ima_Hogg

Tanuki

(14,887 posts)
36. You have used several contractions throughout this thread,
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:57 AM
Jun 2014

including I'm, didn't, can't and it's. Of course these represent conventional usage now, but surely there was a time when some regarded their use with disapproval.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
45. This is English evolving in the way spoken languages always do.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 12:28 PM
Jun 2014

The changes in spoken languages are mainly directed by two forces, and these two forces are in conflict with each other.

The first is to economize on the energy used to say something. As you speak, you try to say as much as possible while using as little energy as possible. That is why sounds change and words contract together, depending on the environment in which it is said (that is, the words/sounds coming right before and after.) It is why we say I'm and don't, instead of I am and do not, and why it is iMpossible, yet iNcalculable. The M phoneme is a nasal pronounced using the lips, and the P phoneme is a plosive pronounced in the same place in the mouth, so instead of using the alveolar nasal N in front of P and B, we use M (even if the spelling should indicate otherwise, we assimilate sounds based on their environs, and would have to make conscious effort to say iNpossible, for example.)

The second is to make yourself understood. You want people to understand what you are saying, so you use energy to make your speech distinct enough that the listener can understand what you are trying to convey.

In groups, we have tons of shorthand, though. The previously mentioned don't, I'm and others are contracted forms akin to your examples. If most people agree what they stand for, it is very natural to start using them.

Believe me, you (and I!) may bellyache and moan about the evolution of English, and how everything is going downhill, but let's face it, if English didn't change, it would be because it was dead. What I see quite a lot of, though, is complaining because they feel that the changes are coming from the wrong people (read, the lower classes). One thing that drives me up the tree is using the gerund instead of the continuous form - He was sat under the tree, rather than he was sitting under the tree. But this is becoming more and more common in British English, and before my teaching career is over, I am pretty sure that I will have to accept my students using that form rather than what I learnt was correct.

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
46. Absolutely.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 12:35 PM
Jun 2014

I find it interesting. Over time, the written language has adopted some of those changes, to be sure. It's inpossible that some of these changes won't eventually find their way into writing.

For me, the interest is primarily in the difficulty such differences between written and spoken English affect people who are learning English as a second language. Of course, that's nothing new, either. English is weird, anyhow, for non-speakers. Look at -ough as it is used in English. Who could guess the correct pronunciations of "through" and "trough?"

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
61. Well, considering I teach EFL in Norway,
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:47 PM
Jun 2014

English spelling is pretty much a case of 'there are no rules, just learn things by heart.' Luckily, Norway is one of the countries where they *don't* dub movies and television, so they have a much better grasp of how different languages sound, not just English. Anyone with even a smidgen of musicality picks it up pretty easily. They can hear the difference between Russian, Greek, Mandarin, and Igbo - they don't understand a word, most likely, but they do have the ability to keep them apart. A lot of people from countries where they dub extensively don't have that.

And if they attend a school system where English is taught in the mother tongue, they have a disadvantage when it comes to English too. I remember visiting an Italian high school that specialized in languages - this was in 1993 - where the students had English classes taught in Italian. It shocked us quite a lot. We were learning Italian as a third foreign language (English being the first, though not a foreign language for me, of course, and then either French or German from middle school, and then Italian in high school) and our teacher had started to speak Italian pretty much exclusively in the classroom after 2 1/2 years of classes.

Of course, I teach my English classes in high school pretty much exclusively in English. (If I don't have minority speakers who haven't had much English in the classroom, in which case I use any and all languages I know to make sure they understand.) I have had classes who were very surprised to hear me speak Norwegian outside the classroom, as they didn't think I spoke it! But I love languages, so am refreshing my Italian this summer, and continuing with Japanese classes this fall.

Orrex

(63,057 posts)
49. Vonnegut commented very well on this, as on so much else:
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 12:47 PM
Jun 2014
This was because their English teachers would wince and cover their ears and give them flunking grades and so on whenever they failed to speak like English aristocrats before the First World War. Also: they were told that they were unworthy to speak or write their language if they couldn't love or understand incomprehensible novels and poems and plays about people long ago and far away, such as Ivanhoe.” ― Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions

3catwoman3

(23,748 posts)
57. People really say...
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:22 PM
Jun 2014

..."He was sat under the tree."? I have never heard that. I hope it stays that way.

I am bothered by the increasing frequency with which I hear people make a possessive out of "I", as in John and I's vacation." It sets my teeth on edge.

And thank you, Mineral Man, for teaching me a new word. I feel like it is something I should have already known,

tblue37

(64,860 posts)
76. Clarification:"He was sat" is a substitution of either the simple past tense or the past participle
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 10:19 PM
Jun 2014

("sat&quot for the present participle ("sitting&quot .

But have you noticed how the simple past tense seems to be replacing the past participle in verb phrases all over the US now? I hear (and see) "He has went" all the time--even in articles in our local newspaper!

I am especially bothered when news readers regularly make that particular error--as they often do.

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
48. That's not a trend. That's normal.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 12:41 PM
Jun 2014

Ellision and laziness in spoken language are common in every spoken language the world over. It's human nature and a well-studied phenomenon in linguistics.

Response to MineralMan (Reply #56)

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
60. language changes and when it does every generation fights for the purity of the language that they
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:46 PM
Jun 2014

are most comfortable with.

Hekate

(89,976 posts)
63. We're re-watching The Story of English by Robert MacNeil and it retains its fascination
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:06 PM
Jun 2014

Hubby is playing with our new Blu-Ray player, which has a wi-fi component. He discovered the old series online and we're watching it on the TV in the living room. There are several problems with watching it like this, the worst being that it's discontinuous and tends to drop in the middle of episodes, but at least it's there. (The vendor on Amazon wants $679.95 for the DVDs.)

Nonetheless, great fun. In between laughing at the cutting edge 1986 technology on display, the charm and depth of information are still intact. I find myself wishing for a worthy successor to MacNeil to give us an update.

One line haunts me from our last viewing bout: "the spread and prestige of the Scots-Irish accent" across a broad swathe of America coast to coast. Prestige?! Well, when you look at it like that, I guess you're right. It's ubiquitous.

pink-o

(4,056 posts)
67. I LOVED that series when I saw it in the 80's!
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 07:58 PM
Jun 2014

Did U know he did a follow-up epi (just one, unfortunately) about 10 or 15 yrs ago to see language changes from the time he filmed it? In this one, he played an original series DVD to a bunch of young San Diego surfers who were LOL'ing there asses off at surfers he recorded in the 80's. The older surfers spoke about how they used the word "rad" like it was so cutting edge; by the time he played it for the younger ones it was a tired cliche. Fascinating.

I wish MacNeil would do another follow up! Can't he have a word with Michael Apted about that 7up thing he does????

rock

(13,218 posts)
64. I've noticed a general tendency on TV
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:19 PM
Jun 2014

to mumble. Of course I'm getting older and do notice a loss in hearing. However ther are still people on TV that I can hear (Trebek, for one, whom I can't necessarily understand).

salin

(48,954 posts)
68. midwest urban youth-speak "fitn-na"
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:51 PM
Jun 2014

= getting ready to do something ...
as in southern expression of "fixing to" do something...

Only by context could I figure it out.

work with good humored kids - used this as a joke to make the point that many people they may encounter (higher ed/jobs) might have no idea what they are saying.

Tree-Hugger

(3,363 posts)
69. I only notice
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:57 PM
Jun 2014

Imma. I haven't noticed your other examples. I use Imma all the time. I use it in more relaxed, casual settings...never in professional or formal settings.

Thanks for this thread. It's fascinating. I love regional accents and learning about them.

I am from Philadelphia (Fluff'ya), which has quite an accent....sometimes there is a difference between neighborhoods. Our o's are weird. Our A's are weird. We add syllables. Acme = ac-a-me. Mine = mayan. We taken syllables away. Kitten = ki'in. Crayon = crown. Then we have the WTF's such as Wooder for water. Incidentally, I find any pronunciation of water other than "wooder" to be grating to my ears. The rest of this nation pronounces it incorrectly. I am very intrigued by the evolution of accents and where they originate. I think the Philly accent has fancy Southern roots. My own accent is a hybrid of Philly and Staten Island, picked up from my mom. People from Philly think I'm from New York. People in New York say I sound Southern. lol

To your point.....Imma has been used around here for ages. Another that I can think of is "Ci" (hard c, rhymes with eye) instead of "can I?." Ci have a sandwich? And there's "yous" instead of "all of you" or "you two."

Thanks for the thread.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
70. Ever since I transferred
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 09:54 PM
Jun 2014

to Humboldt State University from Oakland last year, I have noticed a TON of people who always say "like" almost every other word. For example, a sentence could typically go something like this: "I think, like, the store might be, like, open at by, like, 6PM tomorrow, but like, I'm not sure."
It's been driving me I doubt many of these people who talk like that are from around Humboldt County, though, considering that much of the student body is from outside the area.

flamingdem

(39,300 posts)
82. The "th" sound and the lazy theory
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 01:18 AM
Jun 2014

dat's classy it's not wachoo tink.

http://dialectblog.com/2011/04/12/th-in-city-accent/

–In the accents of New York City, Chicago, and Philadelphia, among many other American cities, this becomes a dentalized ‘d‘ or ‘t‘ sound. Hence the famous (albeit inaccurate) caricature of New Yorker’s pronouncing 33rd Street as ‘toydy toyd shtreet.’

–In London, voiced th often becomes ‘d‘ at the beginning of a word: this becomes ‘dis.’ Meanwhile voiceless th becomes ‘f;’ mouth therefore is pronounced ‘mouf.’

–In Dublin, th simply becomes plain old ‘t‘ and ‘d:’ ‘ting,’ ‘dis,’ etc.*

Obviously, not all cities have this funny business with th. But there are enough instances of this happening that I see a slight correlation between urban areas and accents with non-standard th pronunciations.

What accounts for this? The most obvious explanation is that all of these cities have been subject to quite a bit of immigration. Since standard English th (? or ð) exists in few languages, many people who speak English as a second language use alternate pronunciations. And this may have filtered down into the speech of native English speakers.

An even simpler explanation may be at play, though: th is frankly a cumbersome sound. I’ve been speaking English for my entire life, and I still occasionally stumble over this consonant. There is a reason young children have no problem pronouncing ‘m‘ in mama, but tend to say ‘mouf’ when they mean mouth. Linguists will send me hate mail for saying this, but I find something inherently unnatural and awkward about English th.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
85. It's a living language...What do you want?
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 02:31 AM
Jun 2014

and FWIW I have never heard or seen examples of cases #2 and #3...

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
92. I'm not. Just a writer.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:12 AM
Jun 2014

Still, my USAF designation was "linguist-Russian 20331." That was an interesting period of my life, for sure.

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
94. Oh, OK. As you say.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:16 AM
Jun 2014

I have my own blogs. DU is a political discussion forum. I do know the difference, thanks.

It seems like a silly point you're trying to make. But, that's fine. Anyone can reply to my posts here, and I'm happy when they do.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
108. I think the only time I had trouble with regional speech patterns...
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:32 PM
Jun 2014

is when I lived in Mobile, Alabama and Tuscaloosa, Alabama. While I am not familiar with it, many around those parts speak some kind of French Creole or something like that. I think what I was hearing was an Americanized version of it. I truly only understood about twenty five percent of the words coming from them. I think I was also the only person I knew who thought it sounded really neat. Many people I knew could fully understand it but couldn't speak it. I know it has nothing to do with the question you posed, just throwing in my little story. Hi MM.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
109. This word compression has been going on forever ...
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:46 PM
Jun 2014

"Gonna" is a prime example.

Languages are organic and constantly changing, which is why we would have a hard time understanding someone speaking "English" centuries ago.

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