General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRegional speech patterns or just laziness?
While it's always been fairly common to use elision while speaking to simplify speech, it seems to be epidemic these days. I'm hearing those omissions of syllables and even whole words more and more from everyone, including media news readers and in advertising. At one time, the examples below seemed to me to be regional speech patterns, I'm beginning to wonder if they're not evolving into almost universal speech patterns. I can't imagine what a new English speaker makes of things like:
I'ma, I'muna, Ahmo - "I'm going to" elided variants, with the last one being clearly regional. I heard the I'ma one yesterday in a radio ad, in the line "I'ma give you the phone number in a second."
Presen'ited States - This elided version of "President of the United States" is pretty extreme, but I haven't heard anything but this from news readers, pundits and others for a long time.
Constitution'ited States - Similar to the above, but this time a severe elision of "Constitution of the United States."
Who has other examples of or thoughts on this speech trend?
dawg
(10,595 posts)Not only will we not drop any syllables, we'll throw in a few extra ones just for fun.
My Mom can get more than one syllable out of the word "milk".
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)a single example of an elision I think is probably regional, the "Ahmo" example. It's the same elision as the others, but with an accent.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The South provides them, but so Maine. For example, in either of those place, you can go to a two syllable "store." But in the states between the South and Maine, you will have to buy your bread in a one syllable store.
How do you suppose that happened?
dawg
(10,595 posts)regions that you would not expect.
For that matter, the notion of a "Southern" accent is a major oversimplification. My accent is more of an Appalachian accent. People from the Southern part of my state sound dramatically different from me.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Coincidentally, before I saw this thread, Manny and I were talking about Paul Revere's accent, the Maine accent, etc. on the Boston clean water thread there.
In Boston, accents can differ from one Boston neighborhood to another--and the city is not huge. I think it may depend on whether an area got yuppified enough, or whether it remains mostly Irish or Italian or Chinese or whatever.
Another thing. Baba Wawa's r issue. It is not unique to her. When I first moved to Boston, I heard others with that same speech issue, including African Americans.
Where else you hear that r --besides in the speech of some toddlers--is in the speech of the British upper classes, including the royals. In some French people speaking English, too. In England, apparently, it's at home and not at all a problem. Apparently, it was once at home in parts of Massachusetts, though I don't hear it anymore. But, in US broadcasting, it was a speech defect and her network sent her to speech therapy and more than one female SNLer mocked her mercilessly for it.
madamesilverspurs
(15,774 posts)when, in Virginia, I pronounced grits with only one syllable.
merrily
(45,251 posts)And Maine be one of the Yankiest.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Being from Maine, I understand the Yankee R in "sto-ah".
madamesilverspurs
(15,774 posts)Or so I was corrected...
Arkansas Granny
(31,476 posts)MineralMan
(146,116 posts)tblue37
(64,860 posts)Just like your name. No respectful southerner would just say dog.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
dawg
(10,595 posts)It's a contraction.
tblue37
(64,860 posts)are ones I carried north with me when I moved from the deep south at age 12 1/2. That word, and "mirra" (for "mirror" made me an exotic creature to my new northeastern PA classmates, just as their pronunciation of the letter "haitch" (i.e., "h" and their comments about things needing "washed" (as in "That shirt needs washed" made their speech patterns seem alien to me.
I later learned that the Pennsylvania Dutch dialect (i.e., Germanized English) had a major influence on their speech.
You left out the "y".
To this day, I still say something similar to "New Orlins." I certainly do not say "New Or-leens" like the Northerners do.
tblue37
(64,860 posts)pronunciation out a bit after I'd been in Pennsylvania for a while--to the same "New Orlins" you use. I have never been able to stand the sound of the Northerners' "New Or-leens" for some reason. It just grates on me.
redqueen
(115,085 posts)I like regional speech myself. I would hate it if everyone spoke in the Queen's English.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,070 posts)And I hate it. It makes people sound illiterate and stupid, and you hear it all the time in ads, like they think it's cute or clever. I think it's a combination of laziness and a desire to seem hip or something. I hate it. And get off my lawn, you lazy-tongued hipster slacker losers.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)and politicians.
betsuni
(25,062 posts)It's news anchors and people who speak in public all the time that bother me too -- their voices are an important tool in their toolbox, yet they don't seem concerned about fixing mannerisms. Sometimes I'll have a news panel show on and it sounds like shrieking tropical birds. The uptalk, the rising tones at the end of sentences that aren't questions, that drives me nuts. Usually the Uptalkers speak very quickly and wave their hands around and use "like" and I want Henry Higgins to scream at them and shove marbles in their mouths.
betsuni
(25,062 posts)I hear even news anchors and announcers say "large amounts of people" and "less people." People come in amounts now.
betsuni
(25,062 posts)Help, I can't stop. Last time I saw the news there was a question about Iraq, "How will events there affect the Homeland?" Then coverage of tornadoes in the "Heartland." The nervous twitch in my left eyelid returns... How can I not think about Nazis every time I hear those words, how? That's another thing I can't seem to get used to.
flamingdem
(39,300 posts)their Mexican immigrant nannies who spoke with uptalk in their Spanish accents.
I really despise it as well. Yeeech! Even highly educated women use that style.
betsuni
(25,062 posts)Thanks, I didn't know that. I've had to turn off news programs when guests or reporters approaching middle-age still talk that way. According to the Uptalkers, it's becoming a standard American speech pattern and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Australians complain about uptalk, but I don't mind it so much because it seems to blend in better with the sound of Australian English.
redqueen
(115,085 posts)I absolutely hate hearing slang from reporters and anchors.
It is just not excusable, just like grammar and usage errors in the press. Typos are one thing - grammar and usage errors are quite another.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)MineralMan
(146,116 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)
making myself understood in any part of the United States. I speak with a midwestern/California accent, and sound like a network news anchor. And I do pronounce all of the words. There are no misunderstandings in that direction. I'm also familiar with almost every regional accent in the US, so I have no problem understanding others. I like language.
Orrex
(63,057 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)in this comment
unblock
(51,920 posts)Ron Green
(9,819 posts)MineralMan
(146,116 posts)let me know what the results were.
clarice
(5,504 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)The second and the third on are TV by newscasters?
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)You'll hear "Presen'ited States" more often than the other example, though. There aren't that many news stories about the "Constitution'ited States." Most Americans appear to be unfamiliar with that document.
Chiyo-chichi
(3,557 posts)Last night's Daily Show.
At about the 2 minute mark in this segment: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/xyf39z/poor---off
Little bit of a "u" sound in there, but he omitted about 4 syllables.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)It's the trend.
Chiyo-chichi
(3,557 posts)Though I'm interested in such things as a speechwriter with a background in theatre. I used to know the International Phonetic Alphabet well and still have a copy of Kenyon & Knott's Pronouncing Dictionary of American English within arm's reach.
I thought of this thread when I heard Biden say it that way.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Where I live in New England, we tend cotract words and put the accent on strange places so it comes out like "dancin' or Hunin.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)clarice
(5,504 posts)and add the R's were they don't belong?
"I'm going to warsh my caaaa"
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)missingthebigdog
(1,233 posts)People in the Northeast drop them from words like "park" and "car," and they float through the atmosphere and land here in the south in words like "warsh," "idear," and "sawr."
clarice
(5,504 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)...um, yeah.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)Personally, I think the elisions I'm mentioning have nothing to do with regional speech patterns. They seem to be almost universal these days, which prompted this thread.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)These days you are liable to meet someone from anywhere, or hear them on TV or on the web.
That's what I remind myself when I hear Pittsburgh speech like, "The dog needs fed." Ugh. Makes my ears hurt.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)It's also common in Minnesota. "My car needs fixed," for example, or "That house needs painted." Those drive me bonkers. Is 'to be" all that difficult to say? Really...
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Pittsburghese and other patterns get propagated when others hear them, so you get people in Texas suddenly ordering "dippy eggs."
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)Be careful where you order those, though. You could get your eggs, as I say, "sunny side up" or soft-boiled. They're both "dippy eggs," depending on where you are.
tblue37
(64,860 posts)TexasProgresive
(12,147 posts)Sunny side up maybe, so you can dip toast in the yoke.
tblue37
(64,860 posts)areas influenced by German or Scandinavian settlers, like the Amish in Pennsylvania and the Scandinavian settlers in Minnesota.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)eShirl
(18,462 posts)Why, he would barely recognize modern speech in modern Rome, let alone how the language has changed in other parts of Europe..
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)MineralMan
(146,116 posts)I just find extreme elision that involves dropping multiple syllables in spoken language to be a little alarming, somehow.
On the other hand, there is o'clock, which finally resolved into a standard written form of "of the clock." It's a process, for sure.
abakan
(1,814 posts)I find bits and pieces of spanish becoming, more and more, a part of my my spoken language.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)Learning Spanish was almost automatic. I never took a Spanish class, but can converse easily wit Spanish speakers. It's interesting.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)abakan
(1,814 posts)Birder as in raising or shooting? I also make lemon vodka..It is great but very drunk making...
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)girlfriend is a bird watching machine, I can occasionally be convinced into going ............ but not during any hunting season
tblue37
(64,860 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)and happens quite frequently in English. How do you pronounce "temperature" and "comfortable"? (Probably not as written.) Although in an American context one would probably presume that any "president" and "constitution" being referred to, without any further descriptors, to be the American ones and not those of some other country.
And elision isn't any more "epidemic" now than formerly; most of the pronunciation change due to elision happened out of living memory, though -- it's much more common in the UK and in some American placenames of British derivation; "Worcester" for instance, or "Norwich" -- but also "Wednesday" and "February" and lots and lots of others that are now commonplace.
TexasProgresive
(12,147 posts)which the residents have reduced to "Dot".
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)kickitup
(355 posts)as I see younger people use it on Facebook in a joking manner. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Imma+let+you+finish attributes the rise of "Imma" to Kanye West.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)He used it famously, but it's been around for a very long time.
TexasProgresive
(12,147 posts)Famous daughter of Governor Jim Hogg of Texas, and no, she did not have a sibling named Ura.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)Still is.
TexasProgresive
(12,147 posts)as I was growing up- a really great lady. She died when I was about 25. I never heard a bad word about her, just the odd snicker at her name. She supported many good causes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ima_Hogg
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)"Whenja buy that new car?"
"Gimmee some of that."
Orrex
(63,057 posts)Tanuki
(14,887 posts)including I'm, didn't, can't and it's. Of course these represent conventional usage now, but surely there was a time when some regarded their use with disapproval.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)The changes in spoken languages are mainly directed by two forces, and these two forces are in conflict with each other.
The first is to economize on the energy used to say something. As you speak, you try to say as much as possible while using as little energy as possible. That is why sounds change and words contract together, depending on the environment in which it is said (that is, the words/sounds coming right before and after.) It is why we say I'm and don't, instead of I am and do not, and why it is iMpossible, yet iNcalculable. The M phoneme is a nasal pronounced using the lips, and the P phoneme is a plosive pronounced in the same place in the mouth, so instead of using the alveolar nasal N in front of P and B, we use M (even if the spelling should indicate otherwise, we assimilate sounds based on their environs, and would have to make conscious effort to say iNpossible, for example.)
The second is to make yourself understood. You want people to understand what you are saying, so you use energy to make your speech distinct enough that the listener can understand what you are trying to convey.
In groups, we have tons of shorthand, though. The previously mentioned don't, I'm and others are contracted forms akin to your examples. If most people agree what they stand for, it is very natural to start using them.
Believe me, you (and I!) may bellyache and moan about the evolution of English, and how everything is going downhill, but let's face it, if English didn't change, it would be because it was dead. What I see quite a lot of, though, is complaining because they feel that the changes are coming from the wrong people (read, the lower classes). One thing that drives me up the tree is using the gerund instead of the continuous form - He was sat under the tree, rather than he was sitting under the tree. But this is becoming more and more common in British English, and before my teaching career is over, I am pretty sure that I will have to accept my students using that form rather than what I learnt was correct.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)I find it interesting. Over time, the written language has adopted some of those changes, to be sure. It's inpossible that some of these changes won't eventually find their way into writing.
For me, the interest is primarily in the difficulty such differences between written and spoken English affect people who are learning English as a second language. Of course, that's nothing new, either. English is weird, anyhow, for non-speakers. Look at -ough as it is used in English. Who could guess the correct pronunciations of "through" and "trough?"
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)and even better: "Loughborough".
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)English spelling is pretty much a case of 'there are no rules, just learn things by heart.' Luckily, Norway is one of the countries where they *don't* dub movies and television, so they have a much better grasp of how different languages sound, not just English. Anyone with even a smidgen of musicality picks it up pretty easily. They can hear the difference between Russian, Greek, Mandarin, and Igbo - they don't understand a word, most likely, but they do have the ability to keep them apart. A lot of people from countries where they dub extensively don't have that.
And if they attend a school system where English is taught in the mother tongue, they have a disadvantage when it comes to English too. I remember visiting an Italian high school that specialized in languages - this was in 1993 - where the students had English classes taught in Italian. It shocked us quite a lot. We were learning Italian as a third foreign language (English being the first, though not a foreign language for me, of course, and then either French or German from middle school, and then Italian in high school) and our teacher had started to speak Italian pretty much exclusively in the classroom after 2 1/2 years of classes.
Of course, I teach my English classes in high school pretty much exclusively in English. (If I don't have minority speakers who haven't had much English in the classroom, in which case I use any and all languages I know to make sure they understand.) I have had classes who were very surprised to hear me speak Norwegian outside the classroom, as they didn't think I spoke it! But I love languages, so am refreshing my Italian this summer, and continuing with Japanese classes this fall.
Orrex
(63,057 posts)3catwoman3
(23,748 posts)..."He was sat under the tree."? I have never heard that. I hope it stays that way.
I am bothered by the increasing frequency with which I hear people make a possessive out of "I", as in John and I's vacation." It sets my teeth on edge.
And thank you, Mineral Man, for teaching me a new word. I feel like it is something I should have already known,
tblue37
(64,860 posts)("sat" for the present participle ("sitting" .
But have you noticed how the simple past tense seems to be replacing the past participle in verb phrases all over the US now? I hear (and see) "He has went" all the time--even in articles in our local newspaper!
I am especially bothered when news readers regularly make that particular error--as they often do.
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)Ellision and laziness in spoken language are common in every spoken language the world over. It's human nature and a well-studied phenomenon in linguistics.
madamesilverspurs
(15,774 posts)That one was encountered frequently when I lived in Virginia (late 1970s).
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)I've heard the Co'Cola one, too, though.
Response to MineralMan (Reply #56)
flamingdem This message was self-deleted by its author.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)are most comfortable with.
Hekate
(89,976 posts)Hubby is playing with our new Blu-Ray player, which has a wi-fi component. He discovered the old series online and we're watching it on the TV in the living room. There are several problems with watching it like this, the worst being that it's discontinuous and tends to drop in the middle of episodes, but at least it's there. (The vendor on Amazon wants $679.95 for the DVDs.)
Nonetheless, great fun. In between laughing at the cutting edge 1986 technology on display, the charm and depth of information are still intact. I find myself wishing for a worthy successor to MacNeil to give us an update.
One line haunts me from our last viewing bout: "the spread and prestige of the Scots-Irish accent" across a broad swathe of America coast to coast. Prestige?! Well, when you look at it like that, I guess you're right. It's ubiquitous.
pink-o
(4,056 posts)Did U know he did a follow-up epi (just one, unfortunately) about 10 or 15 yrs ago to see language changes from the time he filmed it? In this one, he played an original series DVD to a bunch of young San Diego surfers who were LOL'ing there asses off at surfers he recorded in the 80's. The older surfers spoke about how they used the word "rad" like it was so cutting edge; by the time he played it for the younger ones it was a tired cliche. Fascinating.
I wish MacNeil would do another follow up! Can't he have a word with Michael Apted about that 7up thing he does????
rock
(13,218 posts)to mumble. Of course I'm getting older and do notice a loss in hearing. However ther are still people on TV that I can hear (Trebek, for one, whom I can't necessarily understand).
salin
(48,954 posts)= getting ready to do something ...
as in southern expression of "fixing to" do something...
Only by context could I figure it out.
work with good humored kids - used this as a joke to make the point that many people they may encounter (higher ed/jobs) might have no idea what they are saying.
Tree-Hugger
(3,363 posts)Imma. I haven't noticed your other examples. I use Imma all the time. I use it in more relaxed, casual settings...never in professional or formal settings.
Thanks for this thread. It's fascinating. I love regional accents and learning about them.
I am from Philadelphia (Fluff'ya), which has quite an accent....sometimes there is a difference between neighborhoods. Our o's are weird. Our A's are weird. We add syllables. Acme = ac-a-me. Mine = mayan. We taken syllables away. Kitten = ki'in. Crayon = crown. Then we have the WTF's such as Wooder for water. Incidentally, I find any pronunciation of water other than "wooder" to be grating to my ears. The rest of this nation pronounces it incorrectly. I am very intrigued by the evolution of accents and where they originate. I think the Philly accent has fancy Southern roots. My own accent is a hybrid of Philly and Staten Island, picked up from my mom. People from Philly think I'm from New York. People in New York say I sound Southern. lol
To your point.....Imma has been used around here for ages. Another that I can think of is "Ci" (hard c, rhymes with eye) instead of "can I?." Ci have a sandwich? And there's "yous" instead of "all of you" or "you two."
Thanks for the thread.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)to Humboldt State University from Oakland last year, I have noticed a TON of people who always say "like" almost every other word. For example, a sentence could typically go something like this: "I think, like, the store might be, like, open at by, like, 6PM tomorrow, but like, I'm not sure."
It's been driving me I doubt many of these people who talk like that are from around Humboldt County, though, considering that much of the student body is from outside the area.
flamingdem
(39,300 posts)dat's classy it's not wachoo tink.
http://dialectblog.com/2011/04/12/th-in-city-accent/
In the accents of New York City, Chicago, and Philadelphia, among many other American cities, this becomes a dentalized d or t sound. Hence the famous (albeit inaccurate) caricature of New Yorkers pronouncing 33rd Street as toydy toyd shtreet.
In London, voiced th often becomes d at the beginning of a word: this becomes dis. Meanwhile voiceless th becomes f; mouth therefore is pronounced mouf.
In Dublin, th simply becomes plain old t and d: ting, dis, etc.*
Obviously, not all cities have this funny business with th. But there are enough instances of this happening that I see a slight correlation between urban areas and accents with non-standard th pronunciations.
What accounts for this? The most obvious explanation is that all of these cities have been subject to quite a bit of immigration. Since standard English th (? or ð) exists in few languages, many people who speak English as a second language use alternate pronunciations. And this may have filtered down into the speech of native English speakers.
An even simpler explanation may be at play, though: th is frankly a cumbersome sound. Ive been speaking English for my entire life, and I still occasionally stumble over this consonant. There is a reason young children have no problem pronouncing m in mama, but tend to say mouf when they mean mouth. Linguists will send me hate mail for saying this, but I find something inherently unnatural and awkward about English th.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and FWIW I have never heard or seen examples of cases #2 and #3...
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)or the area's love of acronyms.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)POTUS picks SCOTUS. That's why the election matters so much.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)Behemoth Lobbies of the US.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)It seems so appropriate
Romulox
(25,960 posts)MineralMan
(146,116 posts)Still, my USAF designation was "linguist-Russian 20331." That was an interesting period of my life, for sure.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)MineralMan
(146,116 posts)I have my own blogs. DU is a political discussion forum. I do know the difference, thanks.
It seems like a silly point you're trying to make. But, that's fine. Anyone can reply to my posts here, and I'm happy when they do.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)QED.
MineralMan
(146,116 posts)Really.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)MineralMan
(146,116 posts)To each his own, I suppose.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)is when I lived in Mobile, Alabama and Tuscaloosa, Alabama. While I am not familiar with it, many around those parts speak some kind of French Creole or something like that. I think what I was hearing was an Americanized version of it. I truly only understood about twenty five percent of the words coming from them. I think I was also the only person I knew who thought it sounded really neat. Many people I knew could fully understand it but couldn't speak it. I know it has nothing to do with the question you posed, just throwing in my little story. Hi MM.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)"Gonna" is a prime example.
Languages are organic and constantly changing, which is why we would have a hard time understanding someone speaking "English" centuries ago.