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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 01:56 PM Jun 2014

Wisconsin 4-year-old foils sitter’s plot to blame ‘home invasion’ and robbery on ‘black men’

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/24/wisconsin-4-year-old-foils-sitters-plot-to-blame-home-invasion-and-robbery-on-black-men/

Last Wednesday, Abby and her sitter were home alone when the sitter’s boyfriend and another man entered the home with weapons and ordered the two of them out....

The sitter told police she’d never seen the men before, but that one of them looked like an African-American neighbor named Cody Oaks.

Police handcuffed Oaks and questioned him for hours. It was Abby, however, who told police that he couldn’t be the robber.

“It wasn’t the right skin color,” said Abby. The robbers she saw, she said, were white men.




45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Wisconsin 4-year-old foils sitter’s plot to blame ‘home invasion’ and robbery on ‘black men’ (Original Post) KamaAina Jun 2014 OP
Great, so now we're raising kids to be honest!!!???? joeybee12 Jun 2014 #1
Every voter should have that expression when a republican opens his mouth. rug Jun 2014 #2
No kidding! nt arthritisR_US Jun 2014 #27
I agree! KansDem Jun 2014 #37
Awesome! Catherine Vincent Jun 2014 #3
Four year olds are dangerous Submariner Jun 2014 #4
This child wasn't in on the robbery. LisaL Jun 2014 #6
I always tried to be aware of that with my kids. woodsprite Jun 2014 #20
Little ones are like tape recorders with lisps. nt tblue37 Jun 2014 #45
When was working at a store safeinOhio Jun 2014 #5
Out of the mouths of babes. catbyte Jun 2014 #7
+100! nt arthritisR_US Jun 2014 #28
That's what I was about to say... Stellar Jun 2014 #43
SMH Mr Dixon Jun 2014 #8
And Susan Smith? KamaAina Jun 2014 #9
IMO Mr Dixon Jun 2014 #10
I don't think your assertion is applicable Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #11
Really Mr Dixon Jun 2014 #13
Different time and place with different results Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #15
IMO Mr Dixon Jun 2014 #19
I don't equate arrest with imprison Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #30
But where is the line between "competence" and coercion? rocktivity Jun 2014 #26
You raise a good question Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #39
So what would you have the police do? dsc Jun 2014 #18
Really Mr Dixon Jun 2014 #21
then why is he free now? dsc Jun 2014 #23
AGreed Mr Dixon Jun 2014 #25
I don't think that's excessive Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #40
no, but they don't live in a bubble...they are aware of "the black guy did it" lie noiretextatique Jun 2014 #42
I would expect that "the black guy" is more common than "THAT black guy" Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #44
Dumb criminals muriel_volestrangler Jun 2014 #12
Too bad there isn't always a 4-year-old witness gollygee Jun 2014 #14
Here's a thought.... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #36
Great kid: “They got it back because of me being the superhero,” said the girl. Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #16
It kind of looks like the babysitter was in on the plan. HooptieWagon Jun 2014 #29
I would think she should be charged..yes? I can only imagine what her accusations Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #31
At the very least she filed a false report and made false statements. HooptieWagon Jun 2014 #33
Absolutely..I agree. Yet there was no mention of that in the story, which I found odd. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #35
That's my girl. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #17
I wonder how harsh the punishment will be for the sitter Dopers_Greed Jun 2014 #22
Also, she helped plan the robbery (conspiracy) rocktivity Jun 2014 #34
Isn't that sweet? nt raccoon Jun 2014 #24
Cute kid. Brave, too. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #32
And they would have got away with it too if it wasn't for that meddling kid! Initech Jun 2014 #38
All the media are laughing at this as if it is cute instead of another example of how fucking racist CBGLuthier Jun 2014 #41

Submariner

(12,477 posts)
4. Four year olds are dangerous
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:09 PM
Jun 2014

they have no fear of telling the truth, because they haven't learned "tact" yet.

Awhile back, a neighbor's wife was talking to my wife about having a childhood friend visit her new home. With her 4 year old daughter standing nearby, her mother told my wife that her friend is a wonderful person, but extremely fat and overweight.

Sure enough the friend visits the next day, and while standing next to her mom and her mom's friend, the 4 year old said, "Gee mom, you're right, she sure is really fat."

The mom I heard felt like shriveling into a crack in the seat cushion to disappear. So the mother learned a hard lesson that day. Four year old kids are brutally honest.

LisaL

(44,961 posts)
6. This child wasn't in on the robbery.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:10 PM
Jun 2014

Her things were stolen. There was no motive for her to lie to begin with. Of course she was honest.

woodsprite

(11,829 posts)
20. I always tried to be aware of that with my kids.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:20 PM
Jun 2014

When I was about 4yo, I ran up to our door to welcome my great aunt, gave her a hug, and said "I just knew it was you Aunt Alma!" She said "How did you know that sweetie?" I answer "Cause Daddy said "Oh shit, here she comes again." Needless to say, my father was in the doghouse for awhile where my Mom, Gmom and GAunt were concerned

safeinOhio

(32,461 posts)
5. When was working at a store
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:10 PM
Jun 2014

a regular customer came in and I asked him about the armed robbery he was hit by at the business he managed. It was in the paper and said he was stuck up by 2 Hispanic men with guns. I asked him if had taken the lie detector test yet. He gave me a strange look. Later he was arrested for being part of an inside job.

catbyte

(34,122 posts)
7. Out of the mouths of babes.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:13 PM
Jun 2014

The truth usually comes out. Bravo to the little girl and shame on that racist piece of garbage sitter.

Mr Dixon

(1,185 posts)
8. SMH
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:22 PM
Jun 2014

Glad the little girl spoke up.

Cops always look for the easy arrest nothing new here, remember the central park 5 ?

 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
11. I don't think your assertion is applicable
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:34 PM
Jun 2014

The police were investigating a serious crime and the "victim" named a suspect -- failing to locate / arrest / interview that suspect would be derelict.

If the police were to blame in this case, they would have kept the original suspect in custody despite learning the exculpatory information about his involvement. But they didn't. Despite what you may have read on DU, not every single arrest is unjust or unwarranted.

The sitter should do just as much time as the "robber" she falsely accused, plus an additional 10 years.

Mr Dixon

(1,185 posts)
13. Really
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:43 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)

As if they didn't investigate the central park 5? you can't be serious.

 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
15. Different time and place with different results
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:51 PM
Jun 2014

If a neighbor you recognized broke into your house and robbed you, and you told the police who had done it, surely you would expect them to arrest and interview the man.

The police conducted what appears to be a competent investigation which revealed that the named suspect was innocent and the crime was staged. I think applauding them for a job well done is more appropriate than berating them for the ineptitude of the investigators in other cases that werent handled well.

It bothers me that when the police do their job properly and the result is justice, that people here still jump on the opportunity to bash them. How are we supposed to fix the real problems with our police departments if we are berating them when they do good work?

Mr Dixon

(1,185 posts)
19. IMO
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:18 PM
Jun 2014

Perceptive

IMO the police should error on the side of caution rather than speed of arrest, if it takes them awhile to solve a crime so what, but I think it definitely matters that they get the right person would you not agree? You brought up cops bashing which I don’t agree with, how many hundreds of people have been released from prison after true investigations we’re conducted and innocent people were finally released? Now image how many people are still in prison because the police rushed to solve the crime? My point is there seems to be pressure on the police to solve crimes quickly instead of proficiently. Does us no good to imprison there wrong person and have the real criminals still on the street would you not agree?

 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
30. I don't equate arrest with imprison
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jun 2014

They are two very different things. An arrest often is, and should be, at the forefront of any investigation. Probable cause is required for an arrest, and the PC standard is far lower than the standard of proof for conviction -- which requires a case be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Because of these two different standards, we should expect there to be a significant disparity between number of arrests and number of convictions. That's the way our system is designed to work.

Obviously the goal should be to arrest as few innocent people as possible. But I think that in this case, when a serious crime is reported and the suspect identified, an arrest and interview with the suspect is proper and prudent.

It's unfortunate that the real suspect was the original victim, but she deserves the blame. The police do not.

rocktivity

(44,546 posts)
26. But where is the line between "competence" and coercion?
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:35 PM
Jun 2014

If that child hadn't spoken up, or hadn't been believed, the odds are that the "suspect" WOULD have been charged based on the sitter's "positive ID," if not a forced confession. An alibi? Not if he were home alone. A lie detector test? I hope so, but I read about someone passing a lie detector test, and the cops telling him he'd failed it -- which they have a legal right to do!


rocktivity

 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
39. You raise a good question
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:10 PM
Jun 2014

In a case where a crime has been reported and a seemingly credible victim identifies the suspect by name, such as her ex-boyfriend or neighbor or whomever, but there is a lack of evidence aside from the identification, what should we do? I think the police should arrest the suspect and interview the suspect. I think the prosecution should weigh the facts of the case to determine whether charges should ultimately be filed or not.

But if I was sitting on a jury, I would have a hard time convicting someone in such a case.

dsc

(52,117 posts)
18. So what would you have the police do?
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:13 PM
Jun 2014

A person says I know person x and person x broke in and stole stuff. They should say, well the person might be a big fat liar so we won't investigate, we won't question him, and life will go on. Is that really what the cops should do in your world?

Mr Dixon

(1,185 posts)
21. Really
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:21 PM
Jun 2014

They questioned him for "five, six hours" seems like they had no intention of following up any leads

dsc

(52,117 posts)
23. then why is he free now?
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:27 PM
Jun 2014

I would presume because they asked the girl what happened and then they freed him.

Mr Dixon

(1,185 posts)
25. AGreed
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:29 PM
Jun 2014

However they also gave the real robbers 5 to 6 hours worth of a head start, image if this was a murder charge? what are the chances of catching them with that type of head start?

 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
40. I don't think that's excessive
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:13 PM
Jun 2014

It sounds like he gave them his statement and they were corroborating it. Should they let everyone who has been lawfully arrested and proclaims innocence go free before verifying any of their statement?

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
42. no, but they don't live in a bubble...they are aware of "the black guy did it" lie
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:36 PM
Jun 2014

so, i think they should be skeptical when someone uses that excuse. perhaps they were, and from what i've read, i cannot blame the police. however, if we know about "the black guy did it" so do they.

 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
44. I would expect that "the black guy" is more common than "THAT black guy"
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:19 PM
Jun 2014

Naming a specific person is a lot different than providing a vague physical description of someone. It seems reckless for the sitter to name a specific person, as that person could be easily proven to be uninvolved, which would immediately discredit her entire story.

Then again, she's a 17 year old staging a robbery. She's probably not that smart and reckless seems right up her alley.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
12. Dumb criminals
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:40 PM
Jun 2014

You might be able to get away with saying a 4 year old couldn't recognise someone from a line-up, but for them not to be able to remember the colour of their skin?

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
14. Too bad there isn't always a 4-year-old witness
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:49 PM
Jun 2014

when this kind of thing happens.

Yes, 4-year-olds tell it like it is.

(Edited to add a disclaimer that I don't actually wish 4-year-olds were at crime scenes, just commenting on the fact that this also happens when there is no 4-year-old to tell the truth.)

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
36. Here's a thought....
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:54 PM
Jun 2014

A four-year-old should be on duty in the Oval Office at all times. Daily press briefings.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
16. Great kid: “They got it back because of me being the superhero,” said the girl.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jun 2014

Idiot schmuck babysitter..will the babysitter be charged with making false accusations? hmm.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
31. I would think she should be charged..yes? I can only imagine what her accusations
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:43 PM
Jun 2014

did to upset the life of the man she tried to blame..disgusting behavior.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
33. At the very least she filed a false report and made false statements.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:49 PM
Jun 2014

Its also a possibility she was in on the planning of the robbery, letting the bf know what valuables there were, when the homeowners would be away, etc. In which case she'd be guilty of armed robbery also.

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
22. I wonder how harsh the punishment will be for the sitter
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:26 PM
Jun 2014

Filing a false police report is a felony. Will prosectors throw the book at her like they would a black person charged with a felony?

rocktivity

(44,546 posts)
34. Also, she helped plan the robbery (conspiracy)
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:52 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Wed Jun 25, 2014, 12:55 AM - Edit history (9)

and knowingly participated in it by playing the role of one of the victims and giving the cops false info (accessory).

I'd threaten her with running her sentences consecutively, which should be enough to make her "flip" on her accomplices: "What would you rather be doing five to ten years from now -- walking out of here, or only qualifying for parole?"


rocktivity

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
41. All the media are laughing at this as if it is cute instead of another example of how fucking racist
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:15 PM
Jun 2014

the people are in this country. I do hope the babysitter does not have any bad experience in prison with actual black people who might take offense to her lie. I really do.

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