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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:36 PM Jun 2014

Higgs Boson Seems To Prove That The Universe Doesn't Exist



Higgs Boson Seems To Prove That The Universe Doesn't Exist

Brid-Aine Parnell
Forbes.com, June 24, 2014

None of us should be here. In fact, the whole world, the stars and the galaxies shouldn’t be here either – according to a new cosmological study, our whole Universe should have blinked out of existence an instant after it was first created.

Research from British cosmologists at King’s College London (KCL) suggests that the Universe shouldn’t have lasted for more than a second after the Big Bang, according to the Standard Model that’s suggested by the Higgs boson seen in 2012 along with recent astronomical observations.

After the Universe began in the Big Bang, it is theorised that it went through a short period of rapid expansion known as cosmic inflation. The Universe is still expanding today, but at a rather sedate pace astronomically-speaking. In the inflationary period, matter was flung outward at an exponential rate in all directions, rippling space-time into waves of gravitational energy as it went.

SNIP...

The problem with BICEP2’s results is that they predict that the Universe would have received large jolts during the cosmic inflation phase, which would have pushed it into the other valley of the Higgs field within a fraction of a second. And that would have collapsed the entire nascent Universe in a Big Crunch.

“ This is an unacceptable prediction of the theory because if this had happened, we wouldn’t be around to discuss it! ” said Hogan, who is a PhD student at KCL and led the study.

CONTINUED...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bridaineparnell/2014/06/24/higgs-boson-seems-to-prove-that-the-universe-doesnt-exist/

Just when it seemed things couldn't get any weirder... Either way, I really am thankful we are here, wherever -- or whatever -- this here really is.
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Higgs Boson Seems To Prove That The Universe Doesn't Exist (Original Post) Octafish Jun 2014 OP
are you sure that you exist, and are not a ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #1
Solipsist and Zombie Octafish Jun 2014 #4
awesome cool! thanks for the link! ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #23
OOooo, This looks like a fun read! icymist Jun 2014 #53
Either way, I'm having a pretty good time OriginalGeek Jun 2014 #35
this must be a matrix that our common consent dreams into existence roguevalley Jun 2014 #58
or a combo of prescription and OTC meds taken in all the wrong doses. ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #62
You're a fragment of my imagination. hobbit709 Jun 2014 #65
better than the wrong pigment. ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #68
Yup, thought so! elleng Jun 2014 #2
Would explain a lot. Octafish Jun 2014 #5
Except to the woman who has her hand out for a handshake! japple Jun 2014 #30
Her fault for not being bald. Octafish Jun 2014 #61
That poor man--scarred for life! eom japple Jun 2014 #72
I believe the guy Bush treats like an egg is Jeff Gannon, male prostitute and GOP utility man. Octafish Jun 2014 #77
Oh yeah! I remember that guy. Had full access to the pres didn't he? japple Jun 2014 #83
I'm cool with this PasadenaTrudy Jun 2014 #3
Jane English and Gia-fu Feng got it. Octafish Jun 2014 #7
I call bullshit. GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #6
What Voltaire and Descartes said. Octafish Jun 2014 #8
Descartes: The later years... pinboy3niner Jun 2014 #14
. Lurker Deluxe Jun 2014 #15
Is that Captain Kirk getting accosted by a space yeti? Quantess Jun 2014 #19
A Mugato of the planet Neural, I believe aint_no_life_nowhere Jun 2014 #22
That's the one. Octafish Jun 2014 #24
Yeah but can a Higgs Boson think? chknltl Jun 2014 #26
Brilliant analysis. Wow, I am impressed! n-t Logical Jun 2014 #47
I've tried. It never returns my calls. ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #64
LOL "The Big Crunch". For some reason that really got me laughing. snagglepuss Jun 2014 #9
Found some good explanation of It All from Comcast, of all places... Octafish Jun 2014 #17
There is no safety in the cosmos. Alan Watts Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #10
Alan Watts saved my life... Octafish Jun 2014 #20
I used to listen to him on KPFK, too. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #21
WABX Detroit safeinOhio Jun 2014 #34
The wisdom of insecurity. Vattel Jun 2014 #51
Good I can't make my rent for the first Ichingcarpenter Jun 2014 #11
Which is the crux of the biscuit, the Apostrophe. Octafish Jun 2014 #57
certain people will use this to claim it proves God exists JI7 Jun 2014 #12
Maybe we ARE just denizens of a virtual reality with incomplete rules aint_no_life_nowhere Jun 2014 #13
Nah--it's turtles all the way down, not denizens of tblue37 Jun 2014 #32
We exist because the Universe drank a bottle of Vytautas in the first milliseconds of existence derby378 Jun 2014 #16
What....have....you....done.....to.....brain......mine? daleanime Jun 2014 #28
Thanks a lot.... abakan Jun 2014 #48
Ok, ok, who has alerted on this nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #56
Thanks! And done! derby378 Jun 2014 #60
Awesome. Octafish Jun 2014 #66
Hoo boy derby378 Jun 2014 #79
Funnier still, I have actually drunk Vytautas. ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #67
Cool! How long ago? derby378 Jun 2014 #78
I had it several years ago. There is a large ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #86
This is a perfect example of how science works much differently than faith. Maedhros Jun 2014 #18
That is not the definition of religious faith. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #37
Point of Clarification: Maedhros Jun 2014 #38
Behold: The Infallible Proof of EXISTENCE ECHOFIELDS Jun 2014 #43
It's like Lennon said... deutsey Jun 2014 #25
Nothing to get hung about. Octafish Jun 2014 #63
I'd prefer a Schrodinger Universe Demeter Jun 2014 #27
That idea is hard to just wave off. retread Jun 2014 #42
Dark Matter whether cold, warm or hot is the placenta of the Universe. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #29
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. Rex Jun 2014 #31
Generally, if your study finds something you know for an absolute certainty is wrong... gcomeau Jun 2014 #33
Really? Another explanation is that... Helen Borg Jun 2014 #36
I was thinking of that one. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #39
Science continues to produce such amazing insights! Now we're not actually here! struggle4progress Jun 2014 #40
Cool! well, we might as well take the rest of the day off Ken Burch Jun 2014 #41
I think, therefore I am ECHOFIELDS Jun 2014 #44
Juicy magic, Thanks. n/t Whisp Jun 2014 #45
I am not eating the spaghetti, sausage and zucchini LuvLoogie Jun 2014 #46
I Got Higgs Bosoned Just A Couple Of Weeks Ago, Right Here On DU !!! WillyT Jun 2014 #49
The no shit Sherlock award goes to the PhD student who said Vattel Jun 2014 #50
First, there is a Universe; then there is no Universe; then there is! LongTomH Jun 2014 #52
Mellow Yellowish Octafish Jun 2014 #69
! Alex P Notkeaton Jun 2014 #54
well, that's a relief. Warren DeMontague Jun 2014 #55
Whew. opiate69 Jun 2014 #73
Who says it does? n/t pnwmom Jun 2014 #59
Maybe we all exist within that "fraction of a second..." hunter Jun 2014 #70
I think you win this thread with that statement pediatricmedic Jun 2014 #85
Thank you. Atman Jun 2014 #71
And So It Goes colsohlibgal Jun 2014 #74
I read about that ismnotwasm Jun 2014 #75
Was that sarcasm? KamaAina Jun 2014 #76
Clearly there is a flaw in their research Takket Jun 2014 #80
Sounds like they have no idea what happened Renew Deal Jun 2014 #81
Gawd done it. Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #82
This is a problem for "Flo". CK_John Jun 2014 #84

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
23. awesome cool! thanks for the link!
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:58 PM
Jun 2014

I am most sure if you exist, but will give you the benefit of the doubt.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
35. Either way, I'm having a pretty good time
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:56 PM
Jun 2014

If the latter could you imagine me a little spendin' money please? I got my eye on a nice single malt...

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
77. I believe the guy Bush treats like an egg is Jeff Gannon, male prostitute and GOP utility man.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jun 2014

Although lacking in journalistic credentials, Gannon was planted in the White House press corpse and posed as a reporter, asking softballs and lobbing spitballs.



Very pro-Iraq War, etc. etc. etc. A regular visitor to the Bush White House, too.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
7. Jane English and Gia-fu Feng got it.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 03:57 PM
Jun 2014


The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.

The Tao Te Ching, Chapter 1

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
8. What Voltaire and Descartes said.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:01 PM
Jun 2014

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."



"I think, therefore I am."

Lurker Deluxe

(1,029 posts)
15. .
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:20 PM
Jun 2014

Descartes walks into a bar and asks for a drink, the bartender says, "your drunk". Rene responds, "I think not".

And disappears.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
24. That's the one.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:05 PM
Jun 2014


The one flaw, if it can be called that, I had with Star Trek was I seem to remember there were four episodes with two Kirks. One Doppelgaenger I can understand, two is quite a happenstance, but three is literary inaction.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
9. LOL "The Big Crunch". For some reason that really got me laughing.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:03 PM
Jun 2014

Very interesting article, Thanks for posting

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
17. Found some good explanation of It All from Comcast, of all places...
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:30 PM
Jun 2014
Say What?

Higgs Boson Theorist Claims Universe Shouldn't Exist


The universe shouldn't exist — at least according to a new theory.

Modeling of conditions soon after the Big Bang suggests the universe should have collapsed just microseconds after its explosive birth, the new study suggests.

"During the early universe, we expected cosmic inflation — this is a rapid expansion of the universe right after the Big Bang," said study co-author Robert Hogan, a doctoral candidate in physics at King's College in London. "This expansion causes lots of stuff to shake around, and if we shake it too much, we could go into this new energy space, which could cause the universe to collapse."

Physicists draw that conclusion from a model that accounts for the properties of the newly discovered Higgs boson particle, which is thought to explain how other particles get their mass. Faint traces of gravitational waves formed at the universe's origin also inform the conclusion. [Doomsday: The 9 Real Ways Earth Could End]

Of course, there must be something missing from these calculations.

"We are here talking about it," Hogan told LiveScience. "That means we have to extend our theories to explain why this didn't happen."

How the Big Bang went bang

One possible explanation holds that during the fiery flash after the primordial Big Bang explosion, matter raced outward at breakneck speeds in a process known as cosmic inflation. This bent and squeezed space-time, creating ripples known as gravitational waves that also twisted the radiation that passed through the universe, Hogan said.

Though those events would have occurred 13.8 billion years ago, a telescope at the South Pole known as the Background Imaging of Cosmic Extragalactic Polarization, or BICEP, recently detected the faint traces of cosmic inflation in the background microwave radiation that pervades the universe: in particular, characteristic twisted or curled waves called the B-mode pattern. (Other scientists have questioned the findings, saying the results may just be from dust in the Milky Way.)

CONTINUED...

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/weird-science/say-what-higgs-boson-theorist-claims-universe-shouldnt-exist-n138911

Still need to re-read it about 20 times for the better parts to set in. It is amazing, snagglepuss.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
20. Alan Watts saved my life...
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:42 PM
Jun 2014

...I was driving to a new job near Los Angeles from about an hour from where I lived in Orange County, summer 1986. On the radio, a guy with a sophisticated Oxford accent was talking about Zen and Christianity and psychoanalysis and nuclear physics and consciousness and everything good and bad under the sun and I thought, "This must be Alan Watts." And it was. I, a longtime reader of his, first heard him broadcast on KPFK and recognized him, even though he'd passed more than a dozen years earlier. What a great day it was -- changed the course of my day, summer, year and life.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
21. I used to listen to him on KPFK, too.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:48 PM
Jun 2014

I lived in the San Fernando Valley at the time. He certainly helped in changing my view of life.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
11. Good I can't make my rent for the first
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:04 PM
Jun 2014

so i have an excuse to tell my landlord or Chelsea.

Since I live in this matrix anyway.
I'm imagining this porridge as steak tonight which helps with the delusion.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
57. Which is the crux of the biscuit, the Apostrophe.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 11:27 PM
Jun 2014

If you want it, it's not going to be what you want. And what you really want doesn't exist. Yet.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
13. Maybe we ARE just denizens of a virtual reality with incomplete rules
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:09 PM
Jun 2014

built by denizens of a virtual reality, in turn built by denizens of a virtual reality, in turn built by denizens of a virtual reality, etc., etc. ...

tblue37

(64,860 posts)
32. Nah--it's turtles all the way down, not denizens of
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:53 PM
Jun 2014

virtual realities all the way up.

Ye know nothing, Jon Snow.

derby378

(30,252 posts)
16. We exist because the Universe drank a bottle of Vytautas in the first milliseconds of existence
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:20 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Wed Jun 25, 2014, 09:13 AM - Edit history (1)

Seriously, I laughed until I cried watching this commercial. You watch now! (NSFW!)

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
56. Ok, ok, who has alerted on this
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 10:57 PM
Jun 2014

fess up!

Teh kitteh at the end does not make up for boobs, and fucks.



Sorry, after last week I just had to ask.

Otherwise hilarious, but you might want, for the gentle minds here, add a NSFW warning

and yes, I laughed until my sides hurt. Tractors... now that was hilarious.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
66. Awesome.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 09:47 AM
Jun 2014

I Friended this guy for you:



SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE CANNOT BE ETERNAL because it could not have sustained itself eternally due to the law of entropy (increasing net energy decay, even in an open system). Einstein showed that space, matter, and time all are physical and all had a beginning. Space even produces particles because it’s actually something, not nothing. Even time had a beginning! Time is not eternal. The law of entropy doesn't allow the universe to be eternal. If the universe were eternal, everything, including time (which modern science has shown is as physical as mass and space), would have become totally entropied by now and the entire universe would have ended in a uniform heat death a long, long time ago. The fact that this hasn't happened already is powerful evidence for a beginning to the universe. Popular atheistic scientist Stephen Hawking admits that the universe had a beginning and came from nothing but he believes that nothing became something by a natural process yet to be discovered. That's not rational thinking at all, and it also would be making the effect greater than its cause to say that nothing created something. The beginning had to be of supernatural origin because natural laws and processes do not have the ability to bring something into existence from nothing. What about the Higgs boson (the so-called “God Particle”)? The Higgs boson does not create mass from nothing, but rather it converts energy into mass. Einstein showed that all matter is some form of energy. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence and power for the origin and order of the universe. Where did God come from? Obviously, unlike the universe, God’s nature doesn’t require a beginning. EXPLAINING HOW AN AIRPLANE WORKS doesn't mean no one made the airplane. Explaining how life or the universe works doesn't mean there was no Maker behind them. Natural laws may explain how the order in the universe works and operates, but mere undirected natural laws cannot explain the origin of that order. Once you have a complete and living cell then the genetic code and biological machinery exist to direct the formation of more cells, but how could life or the cell have naturally originated when no directing code and mechanisms existed in nature? Read my Internet article: HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM. WHAT IS SCIENCE? Science simply is knowledge based on observation. No one observed the universe coming by chance or by design, by creation or by evolution. These are positions of faith. The issue is which faith the scientific evidence best supports. Some things don’t need experiment or scientific proof. In law there is a dictum called prima facie evidence. It means “evidence that speaks for itself.” An example of a true prima facie would be if you discovered an elaborate sand castle on the beach. You don’t have to experiment to know that it came by design and not by the chance forces of wind and water. If you discovered a romantic letter or message written in the sand, you don’t have to experiment to know that it was by design and not because a stick randomly carried by wind put it there. You naturally assume that an intelligent and rational being was responsible. I encourage all to read my popular Internet articles: NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION and HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM Visit my newest Internet site: THE SCIENCE SUPPORTING CREATION Babu G. Ranganathan* (B.A. Bible/Biology) *I have given successful lectures (with question and answer period afterwards) defending creation before evolutionist science faculty and students at various colleges and universities. I've been privileged to be recognized in the 24th edition of Marquis "Who's Who in The East" for my writings on religion and science.

-- Babu G. Ranganathan

SOURCE: http://news.discovery.com/space/cosmology/the-higgs-boson-should-have-crushed-the-universe-140624.htm



August. Profound. And September 2.

derby378

(30,252 posts)
79. Hoo boy
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:48 PM
Jun 2014

"You atheists don't know how the universe began because you weren't there!"

"Neither were you!"

"I don't have to be. The Gideons gave me this book..."

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
67. Funnier still, I have actually drunk Vytautas.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 09:48 AM
Jun 2014

As mineral water goes, I'd rather watch sarah palin ad-lib about astrophysics.

what a video.

derby378

(30,252 posts)
78. Cool! How long ago?
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:44 PM
Jun 2014

Do the electrons in your body still chant and burn with shamanic fury? Or is it time for another bottle?

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
86. I had it several years ago. There is a large
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 06:53 PM
Jun 2014

Lithuanian community here (Vytautas is the name of one of their grand dukes in the 1500s) and they have lots of foods and drinks from there.

Lithuanian beer is fantastic. World class. Really really good.
Their mineral water? Not so much. Think sewage.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
18. This is a perfect example of how science works much differently than faith.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 04:37 PM
Jun 2014

A scientist publishes a new finding (e.g. the BICEP2's gravitational-wave evidence for the Big Bang), and other scientists immediately set out to prove it wrong.

As opposed to religious faith, which posits the existence of an original, revealed Truth that can never change and which can never be proven wrong.

The problem we see with Creationists is that they expect science to work the same way as faith, and view ongoing revision of theory as a weakness of the method, not a strength. Neil Degrasse Tyson said it best: scientists aren't afraid to be wrong, because that means there is more mystery to be solved.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
37. That is not the definition of religious faith.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:05 PM
Jun 2014

Religious faith does not necessitate a belief in an ultimate, unchanging truth.

Simply believing in the supernatural could constitute religious faith.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
38. Point of Clarification:
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:36 PM
Jun 2014

I'm referring specifically to Creationist dogma, which insists on the literal truth of the Bible.

I concede that not all religious faith is as rigid.

 

ECHOFIELDS

(25 posts)
43. Behold: The Infallible Proof of EXISTENCE
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 08:17 PM
Jun 2014

The Bible saith,
GOD created the universe 6000 years ago,
therefore the universe exists.
End of Proof
QED

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
63. Nothing to get hung about.
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 09:43 AM
Jun 2014


The Higgs Boson Should Have Crushed the Universe

by Ian O'Neill
Discovery.com, Jun 24, 2014 03:42 PM ET

EXCERPT...

In research presented today (Tuesday) at the Royal Astronomical Society’s National Astronomy Meeting in Portsmouth, UK, Malcolm Fairbairn and Robert Hogan of King’s College London (KCL) discussed the implications of recent discoveries in particle physics and the origins of our universe. Their conclusions will likely cause some unrest.

Since the discovery of a Higgs-like boson by Large Hadron Collider (LHC) physicists in 2012, further studies and data analysis has proven that this particular boson really is the Higgs boson — a subatomic particle that mediates the Higgs field. The Higgs field is believed to fill the entire known universe and endows all matter with mass. Since its discovery, physicists have been getting up-close and personal with the Higgs and experimental analyses has not only proven its existence, scientists are also becoming very familiar with the boson’s (and, by extension, the field it exchanges) properties.

But the problem with the Higgs field is that, if given enough energy, it has the power to reverse cosmic expansion and create a Big Crunch.

The mathematics to arise from accepted Higgs field theory suggests the universe is currently sitting comfortably in a Higgs field energy “valley.” To get out of this valley and up the adjacent “hill” (as shown in the energy diagram, right), huge quantities of energy would need to be unleashed inside the field. But, if there were enough energy to push the universe over the hill and into the deeper energy valley next door, the universe would simply, and catastrophically, collapse.

This is where the BICEP2 results come in. If their observations are real and gravitational waves in the CMB prove cosmological inflation, the Higgs field has already been kicked by too much energy, pushing the Higgs field over the energy hill and deep into the neighboring valley’s precipice! For any wannabe universe, this is very bad news — the newborn universe would appear as a Big Bang, the Higgs field would become overloaded with an energetic inflationary period, and the whole lot would vanish in a blink of an eye.

“This is an unacceptable prediction of the theory because if this had happened we wouldn’t be around to discuss it,” said Hogan.

CONTINUED...

http://news.discovery.com/space/cosmology/the-higgs-boson-should-have-crushed-the-universe-140624.htm



Peter Max continues to grow on me. Plus, Ringo's in town Friday.

Uncle Joe

(58,029 posts)
29. Dark Matter whether cold, warm or hot is the placenta of the Universe.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:32 PM
Jun 2014

We're not collapsing because we're connected to some cosmological uterine wall.

That's my take on it, anyway.


Thanks for the thread, Octafish.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
31. Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:41 PM
Jun 2014

― Mark Twain

 

gcomeau

(5,764 posts)
33. Generally, if your study finds something you know for an absolute certainty is wrong...
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 05:54 PM
Jun 2014

...it's your study's fault.

Two possibilities here without digging in more, and I'm betting on the first one:

1. As par for the course a popular media article about a scientific research paper screwed up its description of their findings in the interests of formulating controversial click-generating headlines... and what the researchers actually said is basically that there's still just something they don't understand yet about the early formative period of the universe.

2. The researchers missed something and are about to have an "oops, duh" moment.

Helen Borg

(3,963 posts)
36. Really? Another explanation is that...
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:02 PM
Jun 2014

Their theories are f**ing wrong!! Remember Zeno's paradox, "demonstrating" that motion does not exist? OKAY...

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
39. I was thinking of that one.
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 06:54 PM
Jun 2014

Parmenides. It's actually a reductio ad absurdum of rationalism: that the mind can comprehend everything, and anything the mind can't comprehend can't exist.
So you start with: try to think of nothing. You can't since if you try you always wind up thinking of something. (I know, Zen Buddhism and all that. Just play along, alright?)
So, that means nothing doesn't exist. Given that, empty space can't exist. So everything is all filled up, and motion is therefore impossible. Which means everything is an illusion, including of course your own existence.

Zeno's Paradoxes are a way of proving that Parmenides is right.
Little-known fact (except among philosophy geeks): Democritus' atoms are Parmenidian wholes: each is kinda like a mini-Parmenides universe. Atomism was actually an attempt to answer Parmenides and get around Zeno's paradoxes. It wasn't until calculus came along that those paradoxes could get solved.
Philosophically, of course, all you had to do was ditch the rationalist assumption behind the whole thing and you're done. But the Greeks were rationalists so they had a tough time with that.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
50. The no shit Sherlock award goes to the PhD student who said
Tue Jun 24, 2014, 10:18 PM
Jun 2014

“This is an unacceptable prediction of the theory because if this had happened, we wouldn’t be around to discuss it! ”

hunter

(38,240 posts)
70. Maybe we all exist within that "fraction of a second..."
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 10:07 AM
Jun 2014

... before we reach the "other valley of the Higgs field."

pediatricmedic

(397 posts)
85. I think you win this thread with that statement
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 04:53 PM
Jun 2014

An infinity of time could happen within that "fraction of a second", at least from our limited POV.

colsohlibgal

(5,274 posts)
74. And So It Goes
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 02:58 PM
Jun 2014

I remember in school, when I heard that it all started with all matter in an incredibly small form exploded, starting it all. My first thought was what was before and where did the stuff of the big bang come from.

It's all mysterious - and at some point there had to be nothing that sprung into something. That's why, looking at this free of religion and myth, I classify myself as an agnostic - there is something we can't understand but something had to be behind the creation of matter out of thin air.

I have a book by Robert Charles Wilson, "Darwinia", which gets into the truth of existence. Maybe it's close to what is what, maybe not, and likely we won't ever know for sure till we expire - and maybe not even then if that's the end of it for us.

ismnotwasm

(41,885 posts)
75. I read about that
Wed Jun 25, 2014, 03:04 PM
Jun 2014

Back to the drawing board so to speak. Perhaps we are just a computer generated game of some advanced civilization.

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