you got it right....sigh...how can Americans be so dumb? so often and so frequently? sigh

in a forum where people who might have an answer aren't allowed to post?? If you want serious discussion, maybe this should go to Discussionist, or some other forum.

think I'll stay right here.

I don't understand it either...

If I think about too much my blood pressure goes up..

you believe that all gays are automatically perverted, you believe that most scientists have been bought off and/or are part of a LW plot, you view fetuses as living beings, you believe that all poor folks would rather live off government checks instead of working for more money, you believe that women secretly want to dominate men and take over, and you believe that a bunch of dead people and Mickey Mouse are voting in our elections.

Which is all of what's on the poster is slanted to be 'statist' and individualism eliminates the need for any of those things. They're immune to the argument being made here, it requires teaching real world solutions in line with equality to overcome that.

of the people around my age who buy what the Libertarians sell don't appear too interested in reading the "fine print" (i.e. the parts of their agenda beyond the rhetoric concerning weed, privacy, and foreign policy). And even with those policies, let's just stop and take a look at what the average Libertarian talks about. With weed, I haven't seen any on their side propose (or mention) any actual federal legislation for legalizing it nationwide. They basically only want the federal government to quit enforcing the federal drug policy and leave it up to the states. With privacy, they have railed against this administration for doing something that is supposedly "unconstitutional", but if I'm correct, various courts have ruled surveillance as constitutional. And with isolationism, well...that's almost the opposite extreme of being a hawk. I doubt that isolationism is the answer for a superpower such as the United States. We can get into less wars and spend far less on the military, but we can't just completely block ourselves off from the rest of the world, especially when other countries may need our help with something that doesn't necessarily require military combat.

BERNIE SANDERS Uncovers 1980 Koch Agenda- "What Do the Koch Brothers Want?"

What else do the Koch brothers want?

In 1980, David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform.

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”

“We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”

“We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”

“We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”

“We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”

“We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”

“We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”

“We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”

“As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”

“We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”

“We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”

“We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”

“We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”

“We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”

“We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”

“We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”

“We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”

“We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”

“We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”

“We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”

“We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”

“We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

“We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

“We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

In other words, the agenda of the Koch brothers is not only to defund Obamacare. The agenda of the Koch brothers is to repeal every major piece of legislation that has been signed into law over the past 80 years that has protected the middle class, the elderly, the children, the sick, and the most vulnerable in this country...

Tomorrow it will be Social Security, ending Medicare as we know it, repealing the minimum wage. It seems to me that the Koch brothers will not be content until they get everything they believe they are entitled to.

Our great nation can no longer be hijacked by right-wing billionaires like the Koch brothers.

For the sake of our children and our grandchildren, for the sake of our economy, we have got to let democracy prevail.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024806298

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a7980koch

to kpete:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024806298

We've heard these memes for years, Americans have come to believe this is how it has to be. Another explanation of this here:

How Freedom Became Tyranny

Rightwing libertarians have turned “freedom” into an excuse for greed and exploitation.

George Monbiot - December 19, 2011

Freedom: who could object? Yet this word is now used to justify a thousand forms of exploitation. Throughout the rightwing press and blogosphere, among thinktanks and governments, the word excuses every assault on the lives of the poor, every form of inequality and intrusion to which the 1% subject us. How did libertarianism, once a noble impulse, become synonymous with injustice?

In the name of freedom – freedom from regulation – the banks were permitted to wreck the economy. In the name of freedom, taxes for the super-rich are cut. In the name of freedom, companies lobby to drop the minimum wage and raise working hours. In the same cause, US insurers lobby Congress to thwart effective public healthcare; the government rips up our planning laws; big business trashes the biosphere. This is the freedom of the powerful to exploit the weak, the rich to exploit the poor.

Right-wing libertarianism recognises few legitimate constraints on the power to act, regardless of the impact on the lives of others. In the UK it is forcefully promoted by groups like the TaxPayers’ Alliance, the Adam Smith Institute, the Institute of Economic Affairs and Policy Exchange. Their conception of freedom looks to me like nothing but a justification for greed.

So why have we been been so slow to challenge this concept of liberty? I believe that one of the reasons is as follows. The great political conflict of our age – between neocons and the millionaires and corporations they support on one side and social justice campaigners and environmentalists on the other – has been mischaracterised as a clash between negative and positive freedoms...

More at the link about the meaning of positive and negative freedoms and how a word is being used against us:

http://www.monbiot.com/2011/12/19/how-freedom-became-tyranny/

I dare say that even if your friends are of the 'island libertarian' variety who don't consider themselves to have any 'fellow Americans,' they would object to some of what the first article says as it could effect them or their families, as they may have to make a living.

Also, the kind of isolationism they favor does not stop globalists from waging daily warfare against other nations, not at all. And waging war against us here at home or the same kind, which when push comes to shove, is violent.

Certainly a thorough read of the second article, and it's worth reading, may lead them to decide they must come to understand more about what they're supporting. It's all part of a whole.

Good luck with your talks with them.

people personally who are Libertarians (or Republicans) to show this to, but your post was still an interesting read. At HSU, they have many places around campus where people can post stuff, and I might end up posting those articles somewhere, such as maybe inside Founders Hall. The Libertarian agenda is even more dangerous than I thought. I used to think people were exaggerating when they say that Libertarians are basically Republicans on steroids, but that assertion was correct all along. Considering some of their policies like an end to all taxation, one could argue that their agenda is borderline anarchism.

The plan was laid out years ago and is gathering steam so fast now that it's only going to be stopped by our voting them out of office. Period. The articles may inspire voting.

Post a question with the platform, if anyone has considered what kind of world they will be living in without all of these things in place?

Can they not envision the kind of social stratification that these policies lead to?

Because only the wealthy will be able to make it without being beholden to the whims of the rich. And they are stealing the Commons that contained the places for the rest of us to network. They have theirs, in corporate boardrooms, country clubs and restricted areas where most of us are not allowed.

Libertarians of wealth and influence, do not need what the regular person needs. But they want us to vote for their 1% vision and their message is carried by 1% wannabes.

Thanks, Jamaal.

There's nobody here who's going to answer it.

Still, it's a good question.

DU is open to all, and as long as liberal independents and 3rd party members don't advocate voting outside party lines, they have always been welcomed, in early days, and tolerated, since '08, here.

Republicans, though? The only Rs here are lurkers and posers who know not to answer that question.

Last edited Thu Jun 26, 2014, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Ok I have been ask twice why I posted this post here... I get the point. Don't ask any questions that might not apply to this political sphere. I'll remember that. Thanks for the lesson.

My point, which had to be inferred, since I didn't directly state it, is this:

Your thread title could be better. For example: "A question for Republicans you encounter:"

I'll apologize for that; I AM a teacher, and even though this is the first week of summer break, which is how I can be on DU at this time of day in the first place, I haven't left my editing brain behind. You are correct that it was a "lesson;" just not the one you got. I'll try to do a better job remembering that I'm not at school.

As I already said, it's a great question.