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davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 12:45 AM Jun 2014

The hatred for immigrants in America is sickening.

Okay, so I'm about to go on another rant. Warning: A large amount of text is incoming.

I've been quietly monitoring the immigrant debate that's taking place on television, in the media, on the blogosphere and such. I have read many, many opinions and thoughts from various angles of this debate. I have considered many of them by imagining myself in someone else's shoes. What it ultimately came down to, for me, was empathy.

As I make this post, a planning commission in Escondido California just (on Tuesday) rejected a shelter for immigrant children. The proposed shelter was to be a 96 bed facility opened in a former nursing home. Five hundred people showed up for a hearing at Escondidio's city council chambers - most of them to lend their support to rejecting the shelter.

Also recently - a mass grave was discovered near the border that likely contains the bodies of numerous illegal immigrants. Politicians on the left are pretty much giving up the fight on immigration reform - and the right wing machine (particularly tea party members) seems more ready than ever to police the border themselves with their own guns. The vast outpouring of hatred and rage are poisonous enough to make even me cringe.

Our Country, it seems to me, is becoming increasingly uncharitable. We are increasingly more likely to criticize the welfare state, to reject refugees and immigrants, to happily suggest that we drug test welfare recipients (and maybe sterilize them, too) and gleefully recommend sending immigrants and refugees back to their own Countries to face God knows what.

In the midst of all of this, I thought about my own son. Like most Fathers, I love my son. I imagined how I would feel if, for whatever reason, he had had to flee to another Country. I would desperately hope for the best, even pray for him - though I've been an agnostic for years. I would devoutly hope that whatever Nation he ended up in would offer him food, shelter - and the hope of a better life.

That is why immigrants are coming here, even children who are sneeringly rejected by so called Christian Americans. The same people who go to church on Sundays, who can be found quoting the bible and ranting about Jesus - are often the very same people to be the least charitable among us. Please understand - this is not a criticism of Christianity itself, but of false Christians. For to be Christian means to be Christ like, or to at least strive to be.

I'm an agnostic, so I'm not terribly crazy about religion, or about the bible, but I did read it. I remember a Christ who talked about forgiveness, about charity. I remember how he talked about feeding the hungry, visiting those in prison, clothing the naked, giving all we had to those in need. I remember he said, "Blessed are the meek", "Blessed are the poor".

Does it not seem that this is the sort of person - or god - who would want us to care for the hungry, the poor, the families fleeing from violence in war-torn lands and lands in economic ruin? Does it not seem like he might say to us all that the way to get into heaven is to be kind to others? To help them and offer them shelter and food when needed?

Perhaps we should consider the inscription on the statue of liberty. I quote, ""Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free""

Perhaps we might even consider that, with the exception of Native Americans, we are all immigrants here, or the descendants of immigrants. My own family hailed from Scotland, Ireland and England. They came here for various reasons, one fleeing a potato famine, one running away from an angry mother, one just looking for a different life. I don't know all of their stories, but they were, without question, immigrants. Legal and illegal. Another funny thing about so called "legal immigration" back in the day, was that all you had to do was agree to serve the army against confederates or union soldiers - and you were welcomed. "Welcome to America Son, here's a gun, now go serve your Country!" (Well, some of it, anyway)

What have we come to, when, instead of opening our arms and our hearts, we attempt to slam shut the gates and point guns in the faces of people seeking hope, shelter, freedom and prosperity?

This isn't the America I was raised to believe in. This isn't the same Country I read about in the history books, nor the same people. There is too much hate, too much anger... too much blame, all directed at the wrong people. It makes me angry and it makes me sad.

If we are to ship out all illegal immigrants and refugees, and their descendants, I imagine there's ships that should be loaded with congress members, tea party republicans and armed, fanatical militia men currently trying to police the border.

There is enough here for all of us. If people are just willing to share, to open their minds and their hearts. We came to this land as pilgrims, as outlaws, as soldiers, as people searching for something better. We found it.

I believe that, rather than rejecting immigrants and condemning them - we should be welcoming them, and working together to make this Country stronger, better, and brighter for everyone. I will willingly share what I have and give of myself to accomplish these goals - because I know how I would feel, if my family needed shelter.

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The hatred for immigrants in America is sickening. (Original Post) davidthegnome Jun 2014 OP
It is just racism. This coming from a white man myself. bradla Jun 2014 #1
A lot of people feel that way, until it effects them personally. davidthegnome Jun 2014 #18
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #22
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #21
When they are calling Republicans to the right of Reagan, RINOs, now ErikJ Jun 2014 #2
K&R ReRe Jun 2014 #3
Well here's my thought and coming from an atheist defacto7 Jun 2014 #4
I think we've got more... ReRe Jun 2014 #6
You're probably right. defacto7 Jun 2014 #7
"That Guy" Pope Francis, has been part of the pro-immigration fight AllTooEasy Jun 2014 #9
Sounds about right. defacto7 Jun 2014 #24
Some Christians do wonderful things. davidthegnome Jun 2014 #19
I know each church can be very different. defacto7 Jun 2014 #25
The Church is very busy fighting what Francis calls 'God's war' against equal rights for LGBT Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #17
The parents who are entrusting their children to human traffickers belong in jail...nt Jesus Malverde Jun 2014 #5
Are you referring to Documented or Undocumented Immigrants? AllTooEasy Jun 2014 #8
Undocumented immigrants are the object of disrespect and hatred from across the political spectrum. Vattel Jun 2014 #14
When it is so difficult to become a "legal" immigrant... davidthegnome Jun 2014 #15
Great post. I think conservatives have historically wanted to "pull up the bridges behind them". pampango Jun 2014 #10
feel better? maced666 Jun 2014 #11
Re-posting for those who might have missed this part.... davidthegnome Jun 2014 #16
"I will willingly share what I have and give of myself to accomplish these goals - because I know pampango Jun 2014 #12
Damn. My secret is out. davidthegnome Jun 2014 #20
Great post. Vattel Jun 2014 #13
Lookit whut I dun. davidthegnome Jun 2014 #23
The penalty for crossing into the country illegally Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #26
It's anti Christian to the highest degree, Jesus Christ welcomed... the GOP hates uponit7771 Jun 2014 #27
kick Liberal_in_LA Jun 2014 #28
 

bradla

(89 posts)
1. It is just racism. This coming from a white man myself.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:19 AM
Jun 2014

Some of the things my family members say at family events are astonishing. Man, these people are brainwashed. I tried to tell my Grandpa to turn off Fox news and that it is polluting his mind, but he will not listen. What is scary is my grandpa is not a dumb man. He is in fact very intelligent.

They cannot stand that this country is turning more diverse. They are so scared that they/I are heading toward becoming the minority race.

Also, their religion is BS. They do not treat people the way the "bible" says you should treat them. You are suppose to care about the poor and less fortunate.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
18. A lot of people feel that way, until it effects them personally.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:58 AM
Jun 2014

Ask your Grandpa how he would feel if it was YOU who had to migrate to another Country, even illegally. It's rather hard to go through the legalization process when you're running for your life, or have no food and water, no access to writing materials or the internet. It's rather difficult to apply properly for citizenship when you haven't got a dollar to your name. A good number of refugees, if sent back to their home Countries, would face violence, hunger, homelessness - all kinds of misery that could be avoided with a little charity here.

For some reason they all seem to think that "those evil Mexicans are coming to steal our jobs!". Now it's true the illegal immigrants will often work for less money than American citizens are entitled to. It's true that they'll put up with a great deal more crap because they don't have the same rights - or are afraid of deportation. Working under the table, without being entitled to the rights and protections of an American citizen, probably living in slums, doing most of the jobs Americans would really rather not do. Yet we blame them instead of the people who hire them to save money. We blame them instead of blaming the government that has made legal immigration such a difficult process, that has made it extremely difficult for even refugees to seek citizenship.

Like in so many other situations, a large number of Americans are angry at the wrong people. I think if we started asking more illegal immigrants about their stories, who they are and why they came here... it is possible that we might develop more compassion. If we can ask ourselves, "What if it was me? What if it was my own children or grandchildren?" Then I think that, through empathy, we would discard a great deal of unfounded anger and hatred.

The bible (particularly the new testament), psychology, sociology, human decency, the golden rule... empathy. If we could apply these things as if they had value, I think it would be a happier Country.

Response to davidthegnome (Reply #18)

Response to bradla (Reply #1)

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
2. When they are calling Republicans to the right of Reagan, RINOs, now
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:17 AM
Jun 2014

its only a matter of time b4 they are talking "final solutions".

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
3. K&R
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:15 AM
Jun 2014

Where is the Church? Where are all the Christians? Why aren't they standing in line at the Immigration offices down there volunteering to take those children in until something can be decided upon?
I swear, this country is becoming more and more uncivilized as time goes on.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
4. Well here's my thought and coming from an atheist
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:39 AM
Jun 2014

it seems out of place... but... the Catholic Church is doing a better job in this community through housing, caring for, and keeping family members together. It's much less common in other churches around here but there aren't many religious organizations to choose from. Certainly the Mormons aren't helping other than throwing coins to the Catholics to keep the immigrants off their lawn and that just about covers religions in Utah, Mormons and Catholics. My unusual two cents.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
6. I think we've got more...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:56 AM
Jun 2014

... hypocrites than anything now. Has Pope Francis heard about this situation?

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
24. Sounds about right.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:16 PM
Jun 2014

I just don't keep up with Catholic hierarchy business, but I can see with my own eyes when people take care of other people and when they don't. Here, it's pretty strait forward which is which.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
19. Some Christians do wonderful things.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:04 AM
Jun 2014

A few years ago, my son's Mother was in a situation where they were going to shut off her electricity. My family helped out by putting together about a thousand dollars to send her - but before we even managed to send the money, a local church had helped them pay the bill.

I have been involved with charity events for local churches. Donations of food, of toys at Christmas time, of money for housing projects. There are true and genuine Christians who are really fantastic people. There are also though, the other sort of "Christians". The ones who reject the teachings of Jesus, who preach fire and brimstone, selfishness, bigotry, cruelty. To Do unto others in the worst way.

I have met both sorts. For the former, I have the greatest admiration and respect... for the latter, I think they should consider what the bible says about getting into Heaven. The words of Christ.

Up here in my neck of the woods, the Catholic church is far too weak and has far too few priests to really organize into helpful community efforts. Of course, it doesn't help that a number of those priests have been of the fire and brimstone persuasion. People are people wherever you go - but if one is going to claim to be Christian, they should at least make some sort of effort to be charitable, forgiving, kind. To care about the less fortunate.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
25. I know each church can be very different.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:20 PM
Jun 2014

It is pretty clear that their holy texts matter very little either way. But the Catholic parish here leans liberal in many ways especially where immigration and poverty is concerned. In other ways, not so much or even not at all.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
17. The Church is very busy fighting what Francis calls 'God's war' against equal rights for LGBT
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:24 AM
Jun 2014

that takes up a great deal of time. Then there is their quest to make sure women can't control their own bodies and healthcare. Only so many hours in the day.

AllTooEasy

(1,260 posts)
8. Are you referring to Documented or Undocumented Immigrants?
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:11 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Fri Jul 4, 2014, 05:16 AM - Edit history (1)

Honestly, I'm frustrated with fellow progressives making no distinction between documented and undocumented immigrants in our arguments. Such mentality/tactic gets us nowhere. I don't know of anyone, from any country, who believes that their country should abandon all screening/documentation when admitting immigrants. That's just irresponsible on the most basic levels of national security. My wife is a documented immigrant from Malaysia, a Muslim country. Her immigration processing went smoothly, and that was BEFORE we got married. My coworker legally immigrated from Mexico. No problems. Both immigrations even occurred under Bush's racist administration.

Refugees are not undocumented immigrants. They are processed and are, by definition, documented immigrants. The US admited 70,000 refugees last year(http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/28/presidential-memorandum-annual-refugee-admissions-numbers). This number is more than any other country, and a significant increase from the 48,000 Bush allowed between 2005-2007(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_the_United_States).

What pisses me off is:

a) The number of refugee admission should be increased to atleast 1+ million, considering all the shit going on in the world. Arguably, there shouldn't be a maximum. If you qualify, you're admitted.
b) Refugee qualification should include 'significant national poverty', which folks in Mexico, Central America, and various parts of Africa and Asia are undergoing.

Current US refugee policies pretty much state that your demographic must be suffering a genocide or a natural disaster to be admitted. It's a ridiculous, long standing policy that encourages the same undocumented immigration that Repukes complain about.

In summary, we can't just say the US is anti-immigrant. The US legally admits immigrants. How about we focus on why so many folks only have the choice to pursue the undocumented route as a result of our asinine policies?

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
14. Undocumented immigrants are the object of disrespect and hatred from across the political spectrum.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 08:57 AM
Jun 2014

I agree with you about the need to admit more refugees, but we should also protect the rights and promote the well-being of undocumented immigrants.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
15. When it is so difficult to become a "legal" immigrant...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:07 AM
Jun 2014

then maybe there really shouldn't be such distinction. Basically, we're talking about desperate people who are willing to risk their lives to improve them. I pretty much agree with points a and b. I imagine that your wife and your coworker are the exceptions, rather than the general rule.

All throughout the media and all over the Country, you can hear the hateful things conservatives - and democrats - often have to say about illegal immigrants. This post of mine came shortly after reading some truly hateful, racist crap. They are treated as if they are subhuman, as if they have no rights to liberty, life, or the pursuit of happiness. As if they were worthless - or certainly worth a lot less than "real" Americans. It's bigotry, no matter who it's coming from.

Who are the real criminals here? The undocumented immigrants? Or the right-wing militia groups and tea party nitwits trying to patrol the border and are eager to kill anyone who doesn't have lily white skin? How about the various companies and wealthy individuals that hire undocumented workers because they know damn well that most of them will be willing to work under the table, for less than minimum wage?

This isn't an argument in favor of undocumented immigration - it is an argument in favor of humane treatment and empathy for our fellow human beings. The level of hatred I have seen for illegal immigrants and for refugees - most of whom are here for the same reasons... it makes me sick.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
10. Great post. I think conservatives have historically wanted to "pull up the bridges behind them".
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 07:29 AM
Jun 2014

The "I've got mine. You have to get your own. Not only am I not going to help you, I'm going to put roadblocks in your way to see that you have a hard time getting what I already have" mentality is ingrained in conservatives.

The "roadblocks" can be walls (along the border, around gated communities, prison walls) or laws (broken immigration laws, regressive taxes, voter disenfranchisement laws). They serve to "protect" the folks who have "stuff" from the folks who don't.

This goes back a long way in American history, at least to the Know Nothing's of the 1840's and probably much earlier.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
16. Re-posting for those who might have missed this part....
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:10 AM
Jun 2014

"Please understand - this is not a criticism of Christianity itself, but of false Christians."

Is this the broad brush you were talking about? Should I not call out Christians who do not act at all like Christians? Or do you object to my comments about militia groups? I'm a bit confused about the broad brush comment.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
12. "I will willingly share what I have and give of myself to accomplish these goals - because I know
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jun 2014

how I would feel, if my family needed shelter."

Well said, but you just gave yourself away as a total liberal Democrat.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
20. Damn. My secret is out.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:08 AM
Jun 2014

Don't tell anyone!

Seriously... in my teens or early twenties, I would have strongly objected to being labeled a bleeding heart liberal. These days though, I consider it an honor and a compliment of the highest sort. Thanks.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
13. Great post.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 08:50 AM
Jun 2014

It amazes me how many at DU are so anti-immigrant. And as one moves further to the right of the political spectrum it only gets worse.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
23. Lookit whut I dun.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:44 AM
Jun 2014

It seems a troll came out from under their bridge and was quickly banished by some rather excellent staff here. I really wanted to play with it though.

Let's make some redneck jokes. Who's up for a good time? I mean, have yer done diddled yer sister, or are yer just stickin' to the family cow? (I borrowed that one, from Skinner, I think). You know you're a Redneck when... you go to family reunions to pick up chicks! (I borrowed that one too). Is yer aunt edna preggers agin? Ya know, daddy always dun tole me that keepin' it in the family is good fer bizniz.

Seriously, the way this topic infuriates conservatives never fails to amaze me. In some cases though, when they reveal their true nature here on DU, I have to chuckle. Good way to get rid of trolls - talk about immigration reform, generosity. Suggest that Jesus would want them to be kind and generous.

Someone must have some better redneck jokes than I do.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
26. The penalty for crossing into the country illegally
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:30 PM
Jun 2014

should be on the order of a parking ticket.

Simply doing so hurts no one. Sure, if you commit real crimes that do hurt people inside the country, you should face stronger penalties, but walking across a border with no intent to harm anyone? Why should that be a felony?

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