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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy Do Right-Wing Christians Think "Religious Freedom" Means Forcing Their Faith on You?
http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-do-right-wing-christians-think-religious-freedom-means-forcing-their-faith-youPaul Clement, a lawyer arguing for Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood, speaks to the press outside the US Supreme Court on March 25, 2014 in Washington
Religious freedom: Its one of the most fundamental American values, written directly into the First Amendment of the Constitution. Of course, true religious freedom requires a secular society, where government stays out of the religion game and leaves it strictly to individual conscience, a standard that runs directly against the modern conservative insistence that America is and should be a Christian nation. So what are people who claim to be patriots standing up for American values to do? Increasingly, the solution on the right is to redefine religious freedom so that it means, well, its exact opposite. Religious freedom has turned into conservative code for imposing the Christian faith on the non-believers.
While it seems like a leap even for the most delusional conservatives to believe that their religious freedom can only be protected by giving Christians broad power to force their faith on others, a new report from the People For the American Way shows how the narrative is constructed. The report shows that Christian conservative circles have become awash in legends of being persecuted for their faith, stories that invariably turn out to be nonsense but that serve to bolster a larger story, that of a majority religious group in American society becoming a persecuted minority, driven underground in its own country. This sense of persecution, in turn, gives them justification to push their actual agenda of religious repression under the guise that theyre just protecting themselves.
The most obvious and persistent example of this is the issue of creationism in the classroom. Clearly, teaching creationism in a biology classroom is a straightforward violation of the First Amendment, a direct attempt to use taxpayer money to foist a very specific religious teaching on captive students. So what the right does is reframe the issue, arguing that teaching evolutionary theory is a form of religious oppression, a direct attack on the beliefs of fundamentalists in the classroom. This is pure hooey, of course, since evolutionary theory is not a religion but a scientific reality, and teaching science as science is no more a violation of religious freedom than teaching kids to that cat rhymes with hat is an imposition of religion. But once theyve convinced themselves that learning science in the science classroom is religious persecution, than it becomes easier to convince yourself that its okay to fight back by forcing your actual religion on everyone else.
You can see this play out in the legends that PFAW details out. Do Christian conservatives want to force their religious hostility to gays onto the military? Tell a lie about how a sergeant was persecuted for simply holding that religious belief to paint yourself as the real victim. Want to justify forcing non-believing kids to pray to your god in school? Tell lies about how kids are being punished for having private prayers all to themselves. Want to force people in the VA hospital to sing your religious songs and worship your god? Spread a false tale claiming that people arent allowed private ownership of religious cards. Tell enough of these stories and people on the right can convince themselves the only way they can protect their own right to worship is to force their religious practice on everyone else.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)Religion's role vis a vis ideology:
Non-conservative christian = Private personal belief that bring them comfort
Conservative christian = Tribalistic sword used against anyone to the left of them. "Christian" is just a more respectable ( in their minds ) way of saying "fuck you".
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)The reality of that adage is bad enough. Seeing Palin as its standard bearer ( even in jest ) is more than than I can bear.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)This really could be a great country, if we would just cast away Christian fundamentalists.
retired rooster
(114 posts)raven mad
(4,940 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)to practice their Bible based Christian faith. For the Right Wing then, Freedom of Worship =Freedom to Worship the God of a Bible based faith. The development of small communities in which everyone followed a Bible based faith reinforced this belief. After all, school days began with a Bible reading and/or prayer. It was the 'Mericun Way!There were many, many small communities with no Catholics, let alone people of other faiths, agnostics and atheists.
The real irony here is that if you follow what became of the Pilgrims' Church, it developed into the United Church of Christ, one of the more liberal set of Christian, and the Unitarians! (gasp!)
proReality
(1,628 posts)The Pilgrims practiced a democratic-like form of community, with leaders and members being equal. They were the working class.
The Puritans (who arrived decades later) were from a wealthier class, far more authoritarian and believed leaders had a divine right to rule...today's fundamentalists.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Effing Puritans. What a mess they've left.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)That's about as close to a logical explanation as I can come up with.
The Road Runner
(109 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)They're afraid of what they may very well know deep down - that their "faith" amounts to nothing more than thin air.
The Traveler
(5,632 posts)Buddhist fundamentalists have operated pogroms against Muslim minorities, and very recently. (How ironic is that?)
We all know about Muslim fundamentalists ... our press insures we hear about that every day.
It should come as no surprise that Christian fundamentalists are similarly inclined.
When examined in detail, there really is little room in the teachings of Jesus or of Buddha for such behaviors. I note that Christian fundamentalists are much more prone to quote Saint Paul than the Nazarene himself ... I therefore sometimes am tempted to label them "Paulists". There is probably someone in Buddhist tradition that played a similar bastardizing and organizing role, but I can't identify that person. Even early Islamic teaching held that Islam was just the "best approach" to relationship with the Divinity, and not the only one.
So I am not sure we can blame these religions specifically for the problem. There are some people who are attracted to <insert relgion here> fundamentalism. Their psyches need that ramp up for some reason. Perhaps it is as simple as that fundamentalism gives them license to focus on the behaviors and beliefs of others, thereby allowing them to escape responsibility for their own spiritual and/or emotional growth and intellectual development.
The Islamic world was the center of intellectual development for a long time. Centuries ago, they gave us algebra and astronomy, for example. They were artisans and artists of the highest order. They could have done much more, but fundamentalists shut that down.
Now, we in America face our own fundamentalists who want to shut down science education and the arts because they perceive it as a threat to their authority. I guess we could acquiesce ... I would prefer not.
Trav
RKP5637
(67,105 posts)the same, all cut from the same piece of cloth. Some love repression, persecution and brutality toward others, as well as being control freaks.
safeinOhio
(32,674 posts)and each one has a different slant on the Bible and most think every other one's reading is wrong and most think they'll burn in hell.
The next step is to make this a country based, only on their own sect, follow their Christian interpretation. From there it moves to wars between the denominations, like Iraq and Ireland.
The founding fathers had it right.
RKP5637
(67,105 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)Cartoonist
(7,316 posts)That drew a hearty laugh from me. Joshua is what they used to condemn Copernicus for saying the Earth orbited the Sun. Joshua, or somebody, caused the Sun to halt in the sky. That proves the Sun orbits the Earth.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)What I do not understand is the bible which they are using to hate others is the same bible in which Jesus teaches to love all, now how do they hate, it is wrong by the bible they preach hate.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)95% of what they scream about runs counter to what I was taught about Christianity in my youth in the 70s ...
The Christian Coalition thing in the 80s has REALLY, REALLY ramped up this perversion.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Hate, I choose not to listen to the ugly.
RKP5637
(67,105 posts)the crap that just flows out of their mouths. They are fodder for propaganda and manipulation ... which makes them so dangerous.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)so therefore they do. Some have been evolving and I hope for more.
Martin Eden
(12,864 posts)War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)I have seen this double think mentality grow exponentially over the last quarter century ...
Basically, the more affluent our lifestyle, the more frivolous our concern about our public domain and the more 1) People tune out and just stay involved in their own lives 2) The more people buy the bullshit the right wing throws out.
Honestly, most of the people my age that I know don't have any time whatsoever for the gay bashing and a lot of the other social issues, but they absolutely believe in the evil liberal boogyman, the PC police bullshit and big spending liberal thing.
It is a losing battle, seriously. The right wing is wrong almost literally on EVERY issue, but they scream so loud and relentlessly and target the most basic and primal aspects of the human spirit so effectively, they can break elections past the 50/50 point most often.
Martin Eden
(12,864 posts)The Faux News Teaparty base is old and dying off, while many young people are cutting their political teeth on John Stewart.
Things will only get worse if we lose the hearts and minds of youth.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)It's absolutely crazy-think.
They are nuts, and a new word needs to be created to fully explain the extent of their selfishness and self-centered world view.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)RKP5637
(67,105 posts)AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)They've been ramming their agendas down our throats since the Reagan administration, if not before.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)RadicalGeek
(344 posts)Perhaps from the days when Christians DID suffer prosecution?
But they don't realize that THEIR "Freedom" may infringe on another's; a woman for example.
merrily
(45,251 posts)If you do XYZ, you are making God sad and/or angry. So stop.
So, if they aren't free to control our behavior by making their particular view of the Bible the law of the land, they aren't free to practice every single aspect of their religion.
As far as separation of church and state being required, they have elaborate arguments about that, including, but not limited to, God (and the Framers) intended this to be a Christian nation. The most liberal version I've heard of that is "The Framers intended this to be a God-fearing nation."
Of course, by "God," they mean the God of the Bible, inasmuch as they don't believe Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, used by Arab Christians and Arab Muslims and Arab Jews--all Arabic speaking people-- alike, that narrows it down to Christians and Jews. (Of course, if it ever got down to that, they'd probably find some way to decide it should only be Christians.)
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)"Right-Wing Christians Think 'Religious Freedom' Means Forcing Their Faith," on others, because forcing their religious beliefs on others is their religion.
RKP5637
(67,105 posts)hymns and names of churches sound more like a military invasion. ... and that is laced with hatred and persecution. The personality types during the inquisitions, for example, are still here today, they never went away, given a chance they would rise again and history would repeat.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)RKP5637
(67,105 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts)... a person who claims to believe in the teachings of Jesus, but spends most of their time and energy ignoring everything he said in favor of their own personal concerns (gays and abortion) of which he said nothing.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)though I will add the caveat "some" American Christian's so as not to piss off the liberal Christians of DU.
RKP5637
(67,105 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Or when he condemned entire cities to hell when they didn't like his preaching? Etc.
Lots of cruel stuff he allegedly said that isn't very christlike. But then there is no historical evidence that he was a real person.
He did indeed say nothing about gays and abortion.
I wonder if some liberal, when they hear an anti-homosexual rant, will start talking about how much David and Jonathan loved each other.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)"I wonder if some liberal, when they hear an anti-homosexual rant, will start talking about how much David and Jonathan loved each other."
The stupid right-wing prick's head would probably explode from the cognitive dissonance.
ck4829
(35,068 posts)And they all but openly say it themselves.
Actually, Tony Perkins does say it openly.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tony-perkins-attacks-supposed-christians-who-support-reproductive-rights
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tony-perkins-arbiter-christianity-says-pro-gay-christians-dont-have-same-religious-rights-co
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/religious-rights-exclusive-claim-religious-freedom
CrispyQ
(36,460 posts)Good luck trying to tell them otherwise. They won't listen.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)But mostly it is because they are closed-minded.
They see their way as the only way and will not permit differences.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)O B E Y E D !!
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)LW1977
(1,234 posts)putdowns, being called "weak minded", and "blind followers" by a very vocal group of atheists who are just as bad as Pat Robertson, The late Reverened Jerry Three-Chinned Falwell and other blasphemous right wingers? Why is it be so damn black and white here when it comes faith and political leanings?
Skittles
(153,150 posts)let me know when they have as much destructive influence as does organized religion
Psephos
(8,032 posts)It's a universal affliction of humankind, best and first described by Eibl-Eibesfeldt in Love and Hate as a genetic drive to carve up the world into "us" and "them." We are blindly loyal to whatever group represents "us" and hateful/fearful of the group representing "them." Views and beliefs are minor influences compared to this drive, but they serve as essential fig leaves that people defend viciously as the "reason" for their emotion.
In human tribal prehistory, this trait conferred a critical survival advantage. In the era of industrialized war, WMD, and political economy, it's only a matter of time before it leads to self-immolation.
Remember, the most certain marker of a bigot is her/his outrage at someone pointing out that s/he is a bigot. That also earns you instant status as one of whom they consider "them," served with all the trimmings.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)It's part of Christian doctrine.
Besides the fact that they're obnoxious about it. I've been told I'm going to hell and I "need to have faith".
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)and you're not one of the elect.
valerief
(53,235 posts)mississippi62
(75 posts)I have lived most of my life in Southern Baptist type churches. Although I still take comfort in the rituals of faith and the doctrine of grace, I reject the political baggage that is packaged along with it.
tclambert
(11,085 posts)Because they want the freedom to believe that everyone should believe the same dogma they do.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)The Christian religion indicates that Jesus said, 'Many will come in my name and many will be deceived.' They're just too stupid to know that "they" are the "many".
Warpy
(111,252 posts)which is why people now call themselves Christians instead of Methodists or Lutherans or whatever flavor you can think of. That's the thing Reaganism did best, unite all the sects who usually didn't think much of each other under that one umbrella.
Discussions of sectarian dogma don't happen much these days because they never come out well.
Evangelicals are just out there trying to tell an 80% Christian population that they don't know Jesus yet. It's their job and why they tend to be such pests and wet blankets at parties.
Should far right Christo-fascists ever gain more power than they have already, they are not going to stay united for long. See what's happening in Iraq? Sunni and Shi'a disagree mostly over the succession within Islam right after Mohammad died. Christian sects differ quite profoundly with each other on human activities like drinking alcohol, dancing, which day the Sabbath is, and so on and so forth. If they ever get real political power, they will start to rip each other apart.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)He was polite. Answered the door with a beer in one hand, a cigarette in the other, in a t-shirt with a nice looking bud on it, and in boxer shorts. Oh, and he let the Dobie out........ the cop-trained Dobie, nice dog, who would lead you to the front door with her teeth........ and never broke a sweat (dog or brother). They didn't come back......... sigh.........
Tikki
(14,557 posts)which isn't such a big deal for adults but they train their young to verbally attack other children and
that is just cruel.
But then it is pretty much about how each denomination can out cruel the other...
IMHO
Tikki
EEO
(1,620 posts)... but seem to be unable to understand secularism is critical to a just and functional republic at home. The stupidity, it burns.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Christianity abroad is a top priority in our nation-building endeavors overseas. Here is the transcript of Obama's rightwing speech:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/02/06/remarks-president-national-prayer-breakfast
EEO
(1,620 posts)Politicians play the game and part of that is most pretending they are more religious than they really are.
Kablooie
(18,628 posts)And if they do then forcing Christian beliefs on others will become the law of the land no matter what the Constitution actually says.
If it does pass i won't be surprised when other organizations start forcing people to follow more and more religious strictures.
At some point Sharia law may join the mix and then the fun really begins.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...that ''proves to them'' that they were right all along. Might makes right, remember? It's the same half-assed bullshit logic that eventually resulted in that ''America is a Christian country'' crappola. All their efforts simply demonstrate to the world that stupid people in America can obtain political power here. Which is just further proof of our inevitable downward slide.
But the reality is that they serve a purpose for TPTB -- as a societal divider. Things that are divided within a society can be more easily controlled, because they are usually weaker and smaller as a result of being divided.
When one has a singular focus, such as: TRUTH, it's much harder to become divided.
- Because like Jesus said, the TRUTH can only be found within.....
K&R
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