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CTyankee

(63,909 posts)
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:29 AM Jun 2014

Holy shit! Reading Geithner's description of the slo-mo domino fall of banks in 2007!

I had no idea how close we were to financial Armageddon in this country...freakin' scary...

If you get Geithner's book, read the chapter entitled "The Fall" with his moment to moment description of what went on...desperate midnight calls to Barclay's in London...Hank Paulson freaking out...and one bank/investment house after another heading for ruin...Bear Stearns, Lehman, WaMu, Wachovia, AIG...absolute panic setting in both on Wall St. and in Washington. It's a wonder there weren't more heart attacks or strokes going on...the cast of characters was fascinating...Dick Fuld was a nasty piece of work...what an arrogant ass (I'm glad he lost his 1 billion dollars in ill gotten gains)...

I must admit I had to look up some of the terms Geithner uses (sheesh, I didn't know what a margin call was, LOL).

This book (or rather this chapter of it) is a frightening look at what sheer terror looked like in those weeks...dunno how popular it is since I got it right away from my library...don't buy it, just try to borrow it...and read that chapter if nothing else...

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Holy shit! Reading Geithner's description of the slo-mo domino fall of banks in 2007! (Original Post) CTyankee Jun 2014 OP
Did Geithner come out looking like a hero? ret5hd Jun 2014 #1
Of course he did... trumad Jun 2014 #2
Which was all the more reason to go much farther with reform than was done. JHB Jun 2014 #12
well, he seems to be alternately freaking out himself and calming Paulson down... CTyankee Jun 2014 #10
Too bad they weren't all nationalized. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #3
Is anyone beginning to see a pattern... CJCRANE Jun 2014 #4
He should run Skink Jun 2014 #5
Oh, I'm so petrified!!!!! brentspeak Jun 2014 #6
well, it was the classic description of a finanical panic... CTyankee Jun 2014 #11
Right there... Xolodno Jun 2014 #19
Amen TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #18
It will never be reformed until the bastards start going to jail... CTyankee Jun 2014 #20
AIG, Lehman, Barclays, Bear Stearns, it's pretty much a list of our clients at the time Guy Whitey Corngood Jun 2014 #7
Bear and AIG are saved...he tells how it went with those efforts... CTyankee Jun 2014 #15
Sad, we use to let companies fail so that other more competitive ones would take their place. Rex Jun 2014 #8
If ever there was a walking failure it was Richard Fuld... CTyankee Jun 2014 #16
Glad to hear people are following him around making sure he doesn't forget. Rex Jun 2014 #17
Does he write about what the banks did that created the crisis? Cerridwen Jun 2014 #9
If he has, I haven't gotten that far in the book...he seems a little lost... CTyankee Jun 2014 #13
Cool. Thank you for replying. Cerridwen Jun 2014 #14
Krugman's review of that book. Jim__ Jun 2014 #21

JHB

(37,158 posts)
12. Which was all the more reason to go much farther with reform than was done.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:57 AM
Jun 2014

I mean, three cheers for stopping a dam break, but a patch doesn't fix the basic problem. It just sets up another failure later on unless it's shored up in more fundamental ways. Or, more to the point, restore the bracing that had been removed as a quaint, outdated overkill that was allegedly no longer needed.

CTyankee

(63,909 posts)
10. well, he seems to be alternately freaking out himself and calming Paulson down...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:52 AM
Jun 2014

but yes, he seems to take a wee bit of credit...altho I am not persuaded that he did anything that unusual...if that is what he is saying, he didn't convince me that he was any kind of hero...more that he was watching the bonfire of the vanities and had some suggestions...at that point, I don't think anybody had complete control at the switch...and that is pretty scary if you think about it...

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
3. Too bad they weren't all nationalized.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:38 AM
Jun 2014

If they were all going to collapse, and lose everything, the government should have simply bought them out at some incredibly deep discount that would at least have left shareholders with something, without simply propping them up for the benefit of the already-wealthy. Keep running the banks, but with the American public as the shareholders, not just the people who get to prop them up anytime they suck at capitalism.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
4. Is anyone beginning to see a pattern...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:39 AM
Jun 2014

These huge "crises" appear out of the blue, that took years to build up, which no one seemed to notice.

brentspeak

(18,290 posts)
6. Oh, I'm so petrified!!!!!
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:42 AM
Jun 2014


Get a grip on yourself. The entire "panic" was a ruse to rob American taxpayers to the tune of at least $700 billion, while also giving banks a get-out-of-jail-free card.

You've been duped. And Geithner should be sent to a Supermax prison.

CTyankee

(63,909 posts)
11. well, it was the classic description of a finanical panic...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:57 AM
Jun 2014

brought about by people who wanted to fix the system for themselves and f*ck everybody else. But the American people weren't paying attention (some were) when Paul Krugman warned us this was coming...de-regulation to prop up rich people...and then walk away with lives, jobs, security lost by so many...this is ruthless, barbaric capitalism at its rawest...anybody living in the USA today should get used to this as our own version of a "market economy," never mind that many western european nations have market economies and do very well by their investors and their citizens...it's up to us in this country to change our brand of capitalism and get some decent regulation in this country...

hey, I'm just the messenger...

Xolodno

(6,390 posts)
19. Right there...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:56 AM
Jun 2014

...these "Bankers" thought that by being the biggest assholes and dicks they could be and working against each other....in the end all would benefit. Typical monetarist view.....and what's scary.....you still have way too many people who think this still works.

Even before deregulation in 1999 you had the dot com bubble, S&L Crisis, etc. which would argue that you needed more regulation or enhanced and reformed regulation.

In a way, you almost needed financial Armageddon to get people to realize, deregulation is not a good thing. But, therein lies another problem...innocent bystanders.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
18. Amen
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:18 AM
Jun 2014

That cretin knew exactly what the bankers were doing and was in on it from the first and no doubt getting rich off of it as well. The ONLY thing those shitstains were concerned about was losing their ill gotten gains and going to jail INCLUDING Geithner.

CTyankee

(63,909 posts)
20. It will never be reformed until the bastards start going to jail...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:05 AM
Jun 2014

and until ordinary citizens insist upon it. We keep being told that capitalism is good for us, as if it were some kind of benign system that spreads the wealth around to include everyone. Why people in this country don't understand that this is bullshit, I do not know...and it's not enough to not be "in the market." We are all at risk by that "market." It affects all of us, whether we are investors in stocks or not...

Guy Whitey Corngood

(26,500 posts)
7. AIG, Lehman, Barclays, Bear Stearns, it's pretty much a list of our clients at the time
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:44 AM
Jun 2014

at our architecture firm. We had a front row seat of this collapse. Not to mention how construction was one of the first industries to fold. To this day I don't know how I've managed to remain employed. I guess specializing in interiors helped. It also helps mentally not to be designing for "Satan" any longer.

CTyankee

(63,909 posts)
15. Bear and AIG are saved...he tells how it went with those efforts...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:02 AM
Jun 2014

he blames the bankers themselves but doesn't talk about his role as head of the NY Fed. He's kind of in a "reactor" mode...odd, isn't it?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
8. Sad, we use to let companies fail so that other more competitive ones would take their place.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:46 AM
Jun 2014

That was before Disaster George and his plan to destroy the US in two terms.

CTyankee

(63,909 posts)
16. If ever there was a walking failure it was Richard Fuld...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:06 AM
Jun 2014

I went to the Internet and looked him and Lehman up and saw him give testimony before Waxman's committee...Central Casting couldn't do better...Fuld is arrogant and super ugly, walks around with his nose in the air...I heartily enjoyed to news clips showing people following him out of the committee hearing room and down the street to his car, carrying signs and screaming at him "You're a criminal!" and "Why aren't you in jail?" You woldn't believe how evil this guy was/is...I wish he had been locked up and the key thrown away...

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
17. Glad to hear people are following him around making sure he doesn't forget.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:11 AM
Jun 2014

Gotta love ya some Henry Waxman! Can you imagine if HE ran for POTUS!? One of the few that I still have a tremendous amount of respect for!

If we cannot get justice, then we can at least mock and ridicule publicly these slime artists!

It is kinda funny, after Enron I naively thought we would see come kind of regulation of financial institutions...little did we know it kicked off the Wild West on Wall Street.

Cerridwen

(13,257 posts)
9. Does he write about what the banks did that created the crisis?
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:49 AM
Jun 2014

Did he write about banks playing fast and loose with limited regulatory oversight from a bath-tub sized government? Did he talk about how they didn't have to have documented proof of ownership of various "exotic financial instruments?"

The banks damned near took us all down with them after their little rigged, casino went belly-up.

When's the next crisis scheduled?

CTyankee

(63,909 posts)
13. If he has, I haven't gotten that far in the book...he seems a little lost...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:59 AM
Jun 2014

but he does admit this was the making of the bankers themselves...

Cerridwen

(13,257 posts)
14. Cool. Thank you for replying.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:01 AM
Jun 2014

I might have to check out the book. Based on your OP, I guess I'd better unpack my books about personal investing so I can remember the various definitions.



Jim__

(14,075 posts)
21. Krugman's review of that book.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:42 AM
Jun 2014

The full review is here. An excerpt:

Midway through Timothy Geithner’s Stress Test, the former treasury secretary describes a late-2008 conversation with the then president-elect. Obama “wanted to discuss what he should try to accomplish.” Geithner’s reply was that his accomplishment would be “preventing a second Great Depression.” And Obama shot back that he didn’t want to be defined by what he had prevented.

It’s an ironic tale for Geithner to be telling, although it’s not clear whether he himself realizes just how ironic. For Stress Test is meant to be a story of successful policy—but that success is defined not by what happened but by what didn’t. America did indeed manage to avoid a full replay of the Great Depression—an achievement for which Geithner implicitly claims much of the credit, and with some justification. We did not, however, avoid economic disaster. By any plausible accounting, we’ve lost trillions of dollars’ worth of goods and services that we could and should have produced; millions of Americans have lost their jobs, their homes, and their dreams. Call it the Lesser Depression—not as bad as the 1930s, but still a terrible thing. Not to mention the disastrous consequences abroad.

Or to use one of the medical metaphors Geithner likes, we can think of the economy as a patient who was rushed to the emergency room with a life-threatening condition. Thanks to the urgent efforts of the doctors present, the patient’s life was saved. But while the doctors kept him alive, they failed to cure his underlying illness, so he emerged from the procedure partly crippled, and never fully recovered.

How should we think about the economic policy of these past seven or so years? Geithner, while acknowledging the disappointments, would have us view it mainly as a success story, because things could have been much worse. And the middle third of his book, a blow-by-blow account of the acute phase of the financial crisis, carries the implicit and sometimes explicit message that things would indeed have been much worse but for the heroic actions of a handful of high officials, himself included.

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