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meegbear

(25,438 posts)
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 12:49 PM Jun 2014

The Rude Pundit - You Wanna Keep Harassing Women at Clinics? Then Let's Play



Look at that church. Isn't it a pretty little church? It's St. Mary's Church in Grafton, Massachusetts. It's freakin' idyllic, no? It's also deeply invested in anti-abortion actions. The congregation participated in 40 Days for Life, an action during Lent that 17,000 churches around the world took part in, with another 40 Days planned for September 24 to November 2.

The St. Mary's churchgoers headed over to Worcester to protest at a Planned Parenthood and to "sidewalk counsel" women there. &quot I)s it worth it to stand out in the wind and rain and cold to pray in front of Planned Parenthood?" the church's website asks. And, for them, it was. They convinced one woman to not get an abortion. You can see the baby. It's like a taste of something that will keep them addicted to protesting. A crack baby, if you will. No doubt the church will be supporting the baby and the mother until the baby is an adult. No doubt.

Come September, and maybe even before, the parishioners will be harassing every woman who goes to the Planned Parenthood, even those just going for pap smears and help getting pregnant. And they will no doubt be joined by the anti-abortion radicals, the fetus picture carriers, the screamers, the hysterics who shame women.

"Is it really necessary to be out on the sidewalk instead of praying at home?" St. Mary's wants to know. Look up at that picture again. What do you see in front of St. Mary's? That's a nice, wide, very public sidewalk. The parking lot is across the street, so most of the people attending church services on, say, a nice summer Sunday will have to walk that sidewalk, a sidewalk just like the one outside Planned Parenthood in Worcester. A sidewalk like the one that Eleanor McCullen "gently" counsels women from outside a Planned Parenthood in Boston.

A not-gentle anti-abortion protester shot up a clinic in Brookline in 1994. In 2007, Massachusetts passed a law that created a 35-foot buffer zone around clinics in order to allow for a woman to be able to enter a Planned Parenthood without having people screaming and spitting in her face. And, yes, it prevented the gentle counselors from gently using their complete lack of medical or psychological expertise to advise women not to have abortions. So McCullen sued because Catholic Jesus wants her to save the babies and, quietly, shhh, shame women into changing their minds. And, today, the Supreme Court, in a fairly tepid opinion, overturned the law and said, "Sorry, but in order to protect the slut-whisperers, we have to allow the potentially violent crazies closer contact with you and the staff of the clinics. Use other laws to protect them, if you can." (They can't.)

Now, we can argue over whether or not the idea of "buffer zones" violates the First Amendment and if they are ever right, whether at clinics or conventions or the miles you have to stand away from the Supreme Court, but one thing we can perhaps agree on: If this is the motherfucking law of the land now, what's good for the motherfuckin' goose is good for the motherfuckin' gander.

So let's get out there, every goddamn Sunday, and head to the churches that send their lunatic Jesus-fellaters out to try to shut down Planned Parenthoods, and stand on their sidewalks, just like the one up there outside St. Mary's in Grafton, and let's make churchgoing a living fuckin' hell for 'em. Let's bodily block the access to the walkways that lead to the church. Let's bring signs that have pictures of women who were killed by illegal abortions. Let's go up to them and try to convince them to convert or go atheist, following them until we are on church property and have to stop. Let's block the street by walking back and forth in the crosswalk. Let's force the churchgoers to need escorts to even get inside.

Shit, let's plaster the telephone poles with photos of the priests and church leaders, their addresses, their phone numbers. Let's tell them as they pass, "We know where you live." Let's film everyone going into the church and post those on a website. Hey, it's a public fuckin' sidewalk, man. Let's scream at them about how they're terrible people, how they support raping children, how they have given money to help silence victims. Can't you hear their silent screams? Can't you? Fuck, yeah.

Going to church is a choice, no? Let's make sure they regret that fuckin' choice, however legal it may be for them to make it. Then let's see how quickly they're begging for buffer zones.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/06/you-wanna-keep-harassing-women-at.html
121 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Rude Pundit - You Wanna Keep Harassing Women at Clinics? Then Let's Play (Original Post) meegbear Jun 2014 OP
"sidewalk counsel" KamaAina Jun 2014 #1
Right on, RP--I wish I could rec this post a thousand times. nt MADem Jun 2014 #2
Here's my little K & R. But will it happen, will the other 'gentle counselors' harrass the church? freshwest Jul 2014 #121
I gotta think I have better things to do with my time and energy Demeter Jun 2014 #3
yeah but, this is a wonderful revenge fantasy. gotta admit. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #4
Why is it fantasy? Fawke Em Jun 2014 #35
I agree with you vigorously on this, except - what you (and I too) would love to see is calimary Jun 2014 #39
Worse, what is being proposed, is worse then useless..... happyslug Jun 2014 #49
You are so wrong. In most places in this country legal abortion is no longer available at all. Hekate Jun 2014 #60
But has those attacks actually dropped the abortion rates??? happyslug Jun 2014 #85
Look, these domestic terrorists don't give a damn about either children or women Hekate Jun 2014 #91
DING! DING! DING! DING! You win the internet. valerief Jun 2014 #104
The original rude pundit... americannightmare Jun 2014 #108
You are dreaming, if you think $721 and foodstamps will incentivize Motherhood Demeter Jun 2014 #61
+1 nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #67
I am only mentioning an anti-abortion program that has a chance of working happyslug Jun 2014 #82
wow--you really have no clue about what these woman-hating anti-choicers do at their little niyad Jun 2014 #79
The Studies have indicated that such attacks have no affect on abortion rates. happyslug Jun 2014 #83
They might not stop those particular abortions, but the publicity contributes to an environment pnwmom Jun 2014 #88
Why should women have to go elsewhere to avoid being harassed, stalked, etcc..? WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #102
I don't think it would be a bad thing to show them how it feels to be on the other end pnwmom Jun 2014 #87
Well, I think I can say you have never had an abortion. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #100
No, these protests are about terrorizing and controlling women's access and choice for legal health suffragette Jun 2014 #105
Huge K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2014 #5
Gotta love Rude. riqster Jun 2014 #6
Fight fire with fire... works RobertEarl Jun 2014 #7
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #24
Your misgyny is not well-hidden. WinkyDink Jun 2014 #33
Sorry - I admit that the phrase was rudely written - not intended! erronis Jun 2014 #63
Yet you did not edit. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #103
Don't forget about birthin babies Bickle Jun 2014 #95
Taste of their own medicine. See how they like it. calimary Jun 2014 #40
And it is just starting, which is why fighting back like this is so necessary randys1 Jun 2014 #51
And after they take away our reproductive rights - just watch. Our voting rights will be next. calimary Jun 2014 #111
Here: calimary Jun 2014 #112
Agree Agree !!! As I tweeted earlier today randys1 Jun 2014 #113
Up close and personal!! Downwinder Jun 2014 #8
The sidewalk Planned Parenthood "counselors" in our city are such extremist freaks... hunter Jun 2014 #9
At my PP it's the Catholics who do almost all of the protesting, and some of them are crazy. HERVEPA Jun 2014 #11
My own relationship with the Catholic Church is... complicated. hunter Jun 2014 #46
Wow. Pretty messy. I'm just your standard culturally Jewish (and Bar Mitzvahed) atheist. HERVEPA Jun 2014 #48
Yep. Once and again "just in case." hunter Jun 2014 #57
As always, you're one of the most interesting posters on here. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #68
with this ruling weissmam Jun 2014 #29
Hell yes. blackspade Jun 2014 #10
RP column recommend on principle nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #12
I don't like the buffer zone around the Supreme Court ladym55 Jun 2014 #13
I don't like the "free speech zones" at political events either. bbgrunt Jun 2014 #25
Fire with fire! bvar22 Jun 2014 #14
The pregnant little rich princesses could also get an abortion by a real doctor emsimon33 Jun 2014 #32
"It was made to stop the unnecessary slaughter of our nation's daughters." nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #69
Amen, Brother Rude. davidthegnome Jun 2014 #15
Open carry SCVDem Jun 2014 #16
Find out where the Supremes park and protest them pulling in. Dustlawyer Jun 2014 #17
I don't know if it's still there, but back when I worked SheilaT Jun 2014 #22
"Koch suckers"--I like it! Well said. emsimon33 Jun 2014 #31
I'm with you. Rider3 Jun 2014 #18
"PEDOPHILE PRIESTS FOR LIFE" sign while wearing the dog collar REP Jun 2014 #19
I'm making my sign. mountain grammy Jun 2014 #20
+2 nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #70
Carry photos of the hundreds of priests in your LuckyLib Jun 2014 #89
fetus fotos ellennelle Jun 2014 #21
Or the ghastly orphanages that used to exist in Romania SheilaT Jun 2014 #23
I've been saying this for years LadyHawkAZ Jun 2014 #26
K&fuckingR.... daleanime Jun 2014 #27
works for me weissmam Jun 2014 #28
This is a great idea! emsimon33 Jun 2014 #30
My new favorite column from the Rude One. JNelson6563 Jun 2014 #34
Great analysis by the Rude One... ljm2002 Jun 2014 #36
Ironically Jake Stern Jun 2014 #42
So maybe a new religion is in order ... sunnystarr Jun 2014 #90
That would be a clever work-around Demeter Jun 2014 #93
So now we all love the Rude Pundit again, huh? tularetom Jun 2014 #37
just because rude botched the last post DonCoquixote Jun 2014 #53
Do that on Sundays - the rest of the week, protect the clinic patients csziggy Jun 2014 #38
I have a better idea maindawg Jun 2014 #41
When we lived in Lincoln, NE from '94-2000, the local anti-choice group, mnhtnbb Jun 2014 #43
Thanks for bringing up Numbers 5:11-31... xocet Jun 2014 #94
Agree with Rude Pundit that what's Jake Stern Jun 2014 #44
Remember, every Cathokic finances, approves if, and celebrates child rape Bickle Jun 2014 #45
Lol Union Scribe Jun 2014 #50
Yup, it will Bickle Jun 2014 #65
Lol! Union Scribe Jun 2014 #73
I don't like them stir her Bickle Jun 2014 #74
Just fyi. Laelth Jun 2014 #106
They do Bickle Jun 2014 #114
I hear you. Laelth Jun 2014 #117
It is if you're teaching them irrefutably wrong things that will harm them Bickle Jun 2014 #118
Yeah! Answer that! ^ bluedigger Jun 2014 #75
Which is filthier? Being a Catholic or being a U.S. citizen? hunter Jun 2014 #109
Belonging to a religion is an entirely conscious choice Bickle Jun 2014 #115
Volunteering for military service is a choice too. hunter Jun 2014 #116
I have a different idea. Bette Noir Jun 2014 #47
One instance where I wouldn't be opposed to open carry... nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #71
I totally fucking agree! gopiscrap Jun 2014 #52
The ugly truth DonCoquixote Jun 2014 #54
Why limit it to abortion KT2000 Jun 2014 #55
What about adult bookstores & porn shops? rickyhall Jun 2014 #56
"Can I open an adult bookstore next to a church?" nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #72
Yep, see how many go from the church to the adult book store... 47of74 Jun 2014 #80
Private booths would probably further increase the traffic. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #81
Make sure the booth walls have holes to the next booth. PeoViejo Jun 2014 #97
If you're going to have a counter-protest at PP PeoViejo Jun 2014 #98
cannot rec this one enough...n/c passiveporcupine Jun 2014 #58
The beginning of all freedom is he right to be left alone. The Wizard Jun 2014 #59
Works for me. What's with those stupid dicks? marble falls Jun 2014 #62
I'll be there right after the Rude Pundit goes Dreamer Tatum Jun 2014 #64
So true. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #86
"...complete lack of medical or psychological expertise..." nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #66
Amen Rebl Jun 2014 #76
Brilliant Rudie malaise Jun 2014 #77
many of us have recommended this same tactic for years. never really did get anywhere with it, niyad Jun 2014 #78
Thanks meegbear! K&R NealK Jun 2014 #84
Happy to be #268! Thanks Rude and meeg~ Cha Jun 2014 #92
"spitting in her face" -- that's assault & battery. Enforce the laws, Grafton Police! Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2014 #96
K & R ctsnowman Jun 2014 #99
That Worcester Planned Parenthood is where I got my first birth control prescription. Squinch Jun 2014 #101
Great idea - I like it! (nt) nyabingi Jun 2014 #107
K & R Raksha Jun 2014 #110
The Rude One has outdone himself. GoCubsGo Jun 2014 #119
FUCKING K & FUCKING R spanone Jun 2014 #120
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
1. "sidewalk counsel"
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 12:51 PM
Jun 2014

I always thought that drug dealers could rebrand themselves along those lines as "sidewalk pharmacists".

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
121. Here's my little K & R. But will it happen, will the other 'gentle counselors' harrass the church?
Mon Jul 14, 2014, 05:21 PM
Jul 2014

It reminds of the guy who rented space to a clinic and was being harrassed for it who took similar actions as suggested by RP. The 'prolifers' were calling up the women whose names they'd obtained by following them around and making obscene and threatening phone calls. So he enlisted an army of people to call them back, all of them. They quit the hate calls, AFAIK.

We don't really want to see political discourse devolve in this way, but sadly this is what it will take to get through to some people The violation of others' privacy and rights can go both ways.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
3. I gotta think I have better things to do with my time and energy
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 12:52 PM
Jun 2014

like impeaching the dancing supremes.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
39. I agree with you vigorously on this, except - what you (and I too) would love to see is
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:09 PM
Jun 2014

an unrealistic goal. I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to see that asshole scalia and his little pets thomas and alito IMPEACHED and removed from their jobs. I'd LOVE that and would celebrate it and feel relieved. But it's not doable. We don't have the clout, the muscle, the money, or the high-powered/well-positioned operatives in the House or Senate to make that happen.

What COULD happen, though, is what's described in the OP. THAT, is doable on a very local, very small, very personal level. THAT is something WE individuals can do. Look at how the other side has built that up into real power. It started with their little-guy grassroots efforts. And look where it is now.

They're GOING TO take our right to have the last word over OUR BODIES away. They're bound and determined. And if we think merely getting a D into the White House is gonna be enough, we're kidding ourselves. Look at the last six years for proof-positive.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
49. Worse, what is being proposed, is worse then useless.....
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:11 PM
Jun 2014

The Anti-Abortion protests have had almost no effect on women getting abortions, they make the protesters feel good, but have had no affect on abortion rates. Thus I give it as evidence to support the position that the protests being proposed would have the same affect, make the protesters feel good, but have no affect on the people being protested.

This is main reason the Supreme Court made the decision it did, such protests rarely work. This is NOT like bringing up something to people who are unaware of the problem, just protests do have affect, it brings attention to whatever is being protested for or against.

The problem with Anti-Abortion protesters is they are trying to protest against women who have already made their mind up, thus such protests are useless. The more effective protest would be to show support for alternatives to abortion, including increase welfare payments for Children.

The Federal Government will pay up to $721 a month for one child (this is called the Standard of Need) if the State agrees to pay 1/2 of that amount. No State has EVER taken up that Federal offer to its full amount, most agree to much lower numbers. My home county the limit for one person is $174 a month. If the amount would be increase to the full Standard of Need, more women would avoid having an abortion, but states before low taxes then the extra money such a program would bring into the State.

Advertisement showing young mothers taking care of their babies would be effective (it gives a positive image to keeping the fetus), but many of these anti-Abortion fanatics revert to horrible pictures of aborted fetuses that tend to turn people off (and thus avoiding the message).

If people want to do stupid ineffective things, leave them, do not give them a chance to see how ineffective those efforts are. Thus I agree this would be a waste of time and energy. These protests are more to keep the protesters happy then to do anything EFFECTIVE about abortion.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
60. You are so wrong. In most places in this country legal abortion is no longer available at all.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:12 PM
Jun 2014

Sheer terrorist activities have forced closures. Doctors and nurses have been murdered. Staffers have been stalked to their homes. Their children have been stalked to and from school.

Make no mistake: this is terrorism. It's been very effective.

Desperate women will still find a way -- they'll self-induce (wire coat hangers, knitting needles, caustic douches) or find, by word of mouth, somebody with dirty instruments, dirty hands.

Women. Will. Die.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
85. But has those attacks actually dropped the abortion rates???
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:49 PM
Jun 2014

They have dropped the abortion rates in those states and areas, but not the overall abortion rate. Women who want an abortion will get one. Even before 1972 woman obtained abortions (and the problems with those illegal abortions is the chief reasons abortion started to be made legal in the 1960s).

Sorry, those protests have had no effect on the US total Abortion rates. What I suggested are things that may work on reducing those rates, but none of these protesters are willing to change to a protest that MAY achieve what they want. That is the point I was trying to make and obviously I failed.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
91. Look, these domestic terrorists don't give a damn about either children or women
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 01:54 AM
Jun 2014

If you stood on a corner for just one day reading their crappy signs, you would realize that what this is really about is sex and controlling women's sexual activity. Pregnancy is punishment for sex. Bad dirty sex by bad dirty women. I mean it.

If they really cared about babies and their mothers they would support a whole host of governmental social programs, but they don't. All that praying and screeching and preaching is about shame, slut shaming and punishment of women for their bad dirty sexual transgressions, their unauthorized sexual activity.

That's why they are trying to get rid of the most effective methods of contraception: because it allows women to have bad dirty sex and get away with it. Pregnancy would show the world what those women have been up to. Shame, shame.

Once those babies are actually born, do you think these people are in favor of food stamps, aid to dependent children, rent subsidies, subsidized day care so women can work, Head Start programs, a raise in the minimum wage, and mandatory contraception coverage by employers?

Wrap your head around these facts, especially the one about banning contraceptives. Stop thinking they really want "abortion rates" to drop. What they want to do is punish women.

In areas where legal abortions are not available, women will find a way -- the abortion rates will not actually drop, but women will die.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
104. DING! DING! DING! DING! You win the internet.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 09:29 AM
Jun 2014

They don't give two shits about people. They only care about feeding their delusions.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
61. You are dreaming, if you think $721 and foodstamps will incentivize Motherhood
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:14 PM
Jun 2014

Women don't go into parenthood so that mother and child starve and suffer for life.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
82. I am only mentioning an anti-abortion program that has a chance of working
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:35 PM
Jun 2014

I am NOT advocating such a position, but it would be a defensible position and something that may even work to reduce abortions. These protesters at abortion clinics have no real affect on abortion rates. These protests are more to make the protesters HAPPY then do anything about reducing abortions.

Study after Study has shown the only effective way to reduce abortion rates (if we ignore birth control methods) is to DECREASE the cost to the mother when it comes to keeping the fetus. This is the ONE method anti-abortion people REFUSE to adopt, for it requires spending money. i.e. raising taxes.

I mention the $721 for EACH STATE CAN DO THAT TODAY and the Federal Government will pick up half that tab. The Federal tab ends at $721, thus anything over that amount has to be 100% state paid (something I do not see occurring) but up to $721 the Federal Government will pay 50% TODAY without having to change any law. It is an option open to ANY STATE, but no state had even tried to take the option.

niyad

(112,434 posts)
79. wow--you really have no clue about what these woman-hating anti-choicers do at their little
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:59 PM
Jun 2014

slug-fests, do you? have you ever been a clinic escort? or a woman going to one of the clinics, not just for abortions (about 3 percent of the total activity at clinics) but for basic health care? have you been screamed at, had your car vandalized, had protestors outside your home? have you been bombed? killed? please do not prattle about how ineffective these people are. those of us on the front lines of this fight know better.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
83. The Studies have indicated that such attacks have no affect on abortion rates.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:45 PM
Jun 2014

In fact studies have shown making abortions 100% illegal has no affect on those rates. Women may want to avoid these clinics, but when women feel abortion is their best choice (often the only choice) they will endure the protests. In areas where abortion are illegal the woman will go to a place where it is legal OR go to an illegal abortion provider (Thus many Catholics support legal abortions to avoid the deaths do to bad illegal abortions).

As to bombings, that has NOT occurred in Massachusetts (it has occurred in the South). It also appears to be ineffective at reducing abortion rates.

Please note I was addressing the issue of the EFFECTIVENESS OF SUCH PROTESTS and calling them ineffective, for that what there are. My suggestions are example of things such protesters could demand and may even reduce the abortion rate. i.e. something effective on that issue. If they would switch to demanding such actions, they protests may even reduce the abortion rates, but protesting outside abortion clinics will have no such effect.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
88. They might not stop those particular abortions, but the publicity contributes to an environment
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 12:00 AM
Jun 2014

in which more and more states are severely limiting abortion services.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
102. Why should women have to go elsewhere to avoid being harassed, stalked, etcc..?
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:59 AM
Jun 2014

You seem intent upon hiding behind a statistical shield which may or may not be valid, and ignoring the affront on basic human rights posed by such a protest. Why is that? And let's see you go to another state for basic health care and then tell me how ok it all is that you have to do that to avoid being abused. And then get back to me.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
87. I don't think it would be a bad thing to show them how it feels to be on the other end
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:58 PM
Jun 2014

of the protests.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
100. Well, I think I can say you have never had an abortion.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jun 2014

I think I can also say that you are clueless if you think the majority of these people want to counsel anyone. Just one moment spent in their presence would be quite illuminating. They are angry, raging, abusive, shaming, violent, and physical.

suffragette

(12,232 posts)
105. No, these protests are about terrorizing and controlling women's access and choice for legal health
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

care.

There are class issues here as well since Planned Parenthood provides a range of services to women who might not otherwise be able to afford them.

Wealthy women do not have to run through a gauntlet of intimidation and threat of violence to access the same legal health care.

And the same people behind these protests are the ones fighting hardest against any increase in services, to welfare, WIC, child are, Headstart, education that would afford e smallest measure of dignity and security these same women. Hell, they are the ones who are always howling for any and all social services to be cut.

They aren't interested in the women becoming independent and contributing members of society anymore than they are in the fetuses becoming that.

They only care about the control they can exert.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
7. Fight fire with fire... works
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:05 PM
Jun 2014

The hypocrisy of these people makes me sick. Like RP says they support child rapers and then turn around and point fingers at a few women who make a hard decision to have control over their own bodies and lives.

Too, these church people are main supporters of the death and destruction of children around the world who suffer our bombs bursting in air over their heads.

One would think church goers would be natural allies to the anti-war movement, but they mostly are not. Were we to harass them on their churches sidewalks doing so under the banner of anti-war would encompass our true spirits and lead to a more and lasting peace. Maybe.

Response to RobertEarl (Reply #7)

Bickle

(109 posts)
95. Don't forget about birthin babies
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 04:57 AM
Jun 2014

The real reason they're against abortion, reduction of the potential customer base. That's why suicide was made illegal, and subject tot threats of eternal torment, denying the king his labor force.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
51. And it is just starting, which is why fighting back like this is so necessary
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:20 PM
Jun 2014

They want your BIRTH CONTROL next, these FREAKS wont be happy until all Women are pregnant, there is ZERRO dollars in the schools and food stamp programs, and everybody is as god damn stupid as they are.

fucking religion

calimary

(80,693 posts)
111. And after they take away our reproductive rights - just watch. Our voting rights will be next.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 02:35 PM
Jun 2014

There actually are people out there who think most of the trouble in this country began when women won the right to vote. Astonishing!!!! I mean, why should they stop at birth control? And who else's rights will be taken or eroded after that?

If I were in the gay community, I'd already be worried. And be PLANNING. LGBT Friends: DO NOT think you're home free on this! DO NOT let down your guard! DO NOT assume they won't be back to fight you and screw you over another day. DO NOT assume for one nanosecond that it's time to relax and become complacent, that your rights are widely acknowledged and protected now, and that you can relax in the confidence that this is settled now. Your fight is NOWHERE NEAR over. They're gonna come back - again and again and again. Just look at the template we all have to study from now: ALEC. Watch 'em like hungry hawks. And be ready.

Take a hard, cold lesson from what's happened to us women on the pro-choice front. Roe v Wade has been whittled away and chipped away and weakened and compromised until it is now on the ropes. How many women have YOU personally heard, either among friends or in the news - "WHY are we still fighting this? I thought this was settled!" How many times have you heard that just in the last year?

Take a hard, cold lesson from what's happened to the right to vote. How many blacks have you seen, either in news coverage or maybe you know some of them, who have been voting literally for decades and now, all of a sudden, there are all kinds of new complications and obstacles thrust in their way. HOW MANY TIMES have you heard or seen this, just in the last year?

DO NOT GET COMPLACENT!!!! You will live to regret it. THEY do not consider this over. Why should you? They'll be back - GUARANTEED. Until they get THEIR win on this, and unfortunately, these assholes don't give up. Which means - NEITHER SHOULD WE!!!!!!

calimary

(80,693 posts)
112. Here:
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 02:46 PM
Jun 2014

I know it's another thread of mine, but I found this comment on Daily Kos, and I want to make sure everybody here can see it. Our side has been asleep. And dropped the ball. We're only now waking up to the enemy onslaught that has been allowed to grow and metastasize like a cancer for at least 30 years. At least since the reagan era. And so much damage has been done, unabated and unchecked and unrestrained, that I honestly don't know if some of it can be undone - at least not anytime soon!

The bad guys have been hard at it for years now. Not just nationally but AT THE STATE LEVEL. They listened to ralph reed and his advice about starting at the school board level and working one's way up - while our side snickered and scoffed and then rolled over and went back to sleep. Our side thoroughly underestimated the resolve and energy and vigor of the enemy. And we're pretty badly screwed. I don't see a way out of this unless the baggers secede from the GOP and form their own party - which would confuse the hell outta that side and split up the vote into constant Spoiler-ville - which could get us Democratic majorities again. But that's the only way I see that can work. Please consider the link here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025154765

We need beefing up all over. It's only now started. We have a somewhat flabby cable network that is NOT liberal 24/7/365, but it's the best we've got. We have the internet that is now threatened. We have the detestable Citizens United working against us. We have unions on the ropes - and that was at one point a source of strength, and funding, too. We have regulations rolled back all over the place. We have AT LEAST 30 YEARS of catching-up to do. All that ground we gained, all the progress we initiated, all the forward motion we fought for - much of it is gone. The enemy has a HUGE and now quite solid head start. We have a hard struggle ahead. And we can't afford to relax and roll over and go back to sleep! That means the enemy gains more ground and then wins outright. Hell, at this point, our very PLANET is at risk because this shit has been allowed to metastasize!!!

As I said in a post on that thread above - WHERE is Howard Dean when we need him? Where are the Howard Dean-type thinkers and strategists? WHERE is the "50-State Strategy" mentality when we need it? As long as Beltway bozos like Debbie and friends are running things, we're screwed, long-term.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
113. Agree Agree !!! As I tweeted earlier today
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 02:46 PM
Jun 2014

from my voting account

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote

"Only reason you need 2 b closer than 35 feet is to intimidate, cons hate Women"

hunter

(38,264 posts)
9. The sidewalk Planned Parenthood "counselors" in our city are such extremist freaks...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:20 PM
Jun 2014

... that the local Catholic communities, even the most conservative of them, stay far, far away, fearing any association.

One of these day I may lose it, slather myself with rainbow zinc oxide sunscreen, put on a tight Speedo swimsuit and stand among them with a southwest pointing arrow sign that says "Wants Me!" while handing out free upscale ribbed tickler and glow-in-the-dark condoms.

In my imagination, so far.

In the real world I'm just a big guy humanist. The creepy "Christians" don't want to play with me.

 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
11. At my PP it's the Catholics who do almost all of the protesting, and some of them are crazy.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:26 PM
Jun 2014

(Prayer vigil every third Saturday of the month)
But yes, when the protestants show up, they are almost all nuts.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
46. My own relationship with the Catholic Church is... complicated.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:02 PM
Jun 2014

My mom wanted to be a nun until she encountered The Creepy Priest. (Her family was Wild West Catholic with a side order of Jewish.) Creepy priest leered at my mom's boobs.

So my mom escaped, married my dad, enjoyed much good Catholic unprotected sex and had many children until her reproductive machinery broke.

I'm a radical lefty social justice Catholic heretic, not mafia, so maybe I'm still okay. My wife and kids are more Catholic than I am. I'm correctly baptized but came into the official Church from a side door. Previously I'd had a girlfriend who was Orthodox "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" style, but twisted. Very, very twisted,

Years ago my parents lived in a very conservative Catholic parish. Attending Mass there was painful. Nobody in my family went to Mass on Sunday, not even my Italian-born great uncle except on the most Holy Days. The Priest did preside when my great uncle died, and he dropped by the wake and everything, but it seemed to be a kind of subtle "Fuck You."

My great aunt later managed to throw a bigger "Fuck You!" party back at the Church with an extreme old Irish wake, lot's of alcohol, partying, and no priests. She rests in peace beside her husband.

ladym55

(2,577 posts)
13. I don't like the buffer zone around the Supreme Court
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:29 PM
Jun 2014

It violates my First Amendment rights. I want to walk right up to Alito, Thomas, Scalia, and Roberts and provide my thoughts on the quality of their work. I promise I'd be polite.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
14. Fire with fire!
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:33 PM
Jun 2014

They could hand out bloody coat hangers to those attending services.


I am old enough to remember when abortions were illegal.
Almost every extended family suffered the unnecessary loss of a daughter, niece, or close friend to "back alley" abortions. Even RICH families were touched by this tragedy as some of their daughters preferred to roll the dice to telling their parents.

The decision to make abortions safe & legal wasn't a moral or religious decision.
It was made to stop the unnecessary slaughter of our nation's daughters.

emsimon33

(3,128 posts)
32. The pregnant little rich princesses could also get an abortion by a real doctor
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:55 PM
Jun 2014

I remember as a child all these women and girls having D&Cs. You don't hear of D&Cs any more. Now I realize they were having abortions.

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
17. Find out where the Supremes park and protest them pulling in.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:48 PM
Jun 2014

Call out Scalia, Alito, And company for being Koch Suckers!

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
22. I don't know if it's still there, but back when I worked
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:04 PM
Jun 2014

at National Airport in Washington, DC, there was a special lot just for Supreme Court justices. Their staffers also felt entitled to use it, and complained bitterly if it was full. It wasn't large, maybe a dozen spaces, but it was quite close to the Main Terminal back then.

This was 1969-79 that I worked there.

REP

(21,691 posts)
19. "PEDOPHILE PRIESTS FOR LIFE" sign while wearing the dog collar
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:50 PM
Jun 2014

"DON'T CUT OFF MY SUPPLY!"

Right in front of that quaint little nightmare factory, every Sunday.

LuckyLib

(6,814 posts)
89. Carry photos of the hundreds of priests in your
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 01:13 AM
Jun 2014

state credibly accused of pedophilia! I'd love to see a national protest at Catholic churches all over the country!

ellennelle

(614 posts)
21. fetus fotos
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:01 PM
Jun 2014

i've long been wondering why the choice movement has not brought back all those pics of the dead women in pools of blood from botched abortions.

and yeah, the pedophilia angle is a very good one, but even better for this issue, seems to me, would be photos of that septic tank in ireland where all those dead babies were stuffed.

yeah, that's the ticket.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
23. Or the ghastly orphanages that used to exist in Romania
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:06 PM
Jun 2014

when women were not allowed to have abortions. Many of them simply abandoned the babies once they were born, and the orphanages were just warehouses for the unwanted children. Truly sad.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
26. I've been saying this for years
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:11 PM
Jun 2014

Maybe not quite so Rude-ly.

If we want to fight back, we will have to get past the idea that churches are somehow sacred and neutral ground, and take the fight to where they live.

emsimon33

(3,128 posts)
30. This is a great idea!
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:52 PM
Jun 2014

I am so tired of these people forcing their religious beliefs down everyone else's throats. They live lives that are as far from the teachings of Jesus as anyone can get,

JNelson6563

(28,151 posts)
34. My new favorite column from the Rude One.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 02:59 PM
Jun 2014

The previous column held that spot for a long time. It was entitled Howard Dean will fuck your shit up.

Julie

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
36. Great analysis by the Rude One...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:04 PM
Jun 2014

...and here, I think, is the most important part:

Now, we can argue over whether or not the idea of "buffer zones" violates the First Amendment and if they are ever right, whether at clinics or conventions or the miles you have to stand away from the Supreme Court, (...)


If that is how they ruled in the case of Planned Parenthood clinics, then how can they justify keeping demonstrators off the Courthouse steps? I ask you.

It seems to me the SC has just declared Free Speech Zones unconstitutional.

But of course, I'm just a prole. So I'm sure I'm missing some wonderful legal technicality that makes Free Speech Zones okay while women going to a Planned Parenthood clinic must run the gauntlet of rabid hate-filled protesters.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
42. Ironically
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jun 2014

A SCOTUS ruling upholding the legality of buffer zones around churches would rely heavily on the "Freedom of Religion" part of the same First Amendment they used to toss the ones around abortion clinics.

sunnystarr

(2,638 posts)
90. So maybe a new religion is in order ...
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 01:30 AM
Jun 2014

One that offers abortion services as well as contraception and cancer screenings. Make the abortion clinics the churches for the new religion and have services on Sundays followed with reproductive counseling. Then the protestors would be infringing on OUR religious freedom rights.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
93. That would be a clever work-around
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 02:27 AM
Jun 2014

IF the churches were granted protection from "freedom of speech" or rather, "freedom from intimidation".

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
37. So now we all love the Rude Pundit again, huh?
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:04 PM
Jun 2014

I have to check in every once in a while to find out how I'm supposed to react to his stuff.

Sorry I made a mistake on his last effort. I'll try to pay more attention from now on.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
53. just because rude botched the last post
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jun 2014

does not make the turth in the post a lie. These folks need to get pushed back.

csziggy

(34,120 posts)
38. Do that on Sundays - the rest of the week, protect the clinic patients
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jun 2014

Follow the lead of the anti Westboro Baptist Church protestors - have HUGE signs that block the anti-choice protestors. Make a corridor for the clinic patients to have safe passage into the clinic - the way one group had giant angel wings to block the WBC hate signs being seen by mourners at funerals.

And bring music - LOUD music to both protests. On Sundays, play it outside the churches. At the clinics, use it to drown out the hate speech and "counseling."

 

maindawg

(1,151 posts)
41. I have a better idea
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:16 PM
Jun 2014

We need to organize protectors for Planned Parenthood. A national organization who would stand guard at any Clinic that is being harassed. I think they should work to link up with open carry groups who support womens rights, how about womens open carry groups ! African American open carry groups! hey if you cabt beat em join em ! I am sure there are many motorcycle clubs who support womens rights who would like to be involved in the protection of innocent women from these religious nuts who work hard to strip us of our rights every day in so many devious ways.
Fighting them will be like the fight against westboro. We know how to fight these clowns .lets get em ! The Supreme court has issued a challenge shall we be sheep or shall we answer the call?
I think enough is enough.

mnhtnbb

(31,319 posts)
43. When we lived in Lincoln, NE from '94-2000, the local anti-choice group,
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jun 2014

Operation Rescue (out of Omaha) for some time was picketing the Westminster
Presbyterian Church on Sheridan Blvd in Lincoln on Sundays because the local MD who did abortions
in Omaha and Lincoln was a deacon at the church. It was truly obnoxious.
They had their giant sized posters of aborted fetuses and everything.

So, one Sunday, I went out and took it to the group. I brought my Bible and read
them Numbers 5:11-31 ( a ritual that results in abortion induced by a potion
given by a priest) and the leader of the group told everyone not to listen to me, because
I was Satan! It really was a hoot. I walked around the sidewalks, trying to engage some
of the women protesters in conversation, and NOT a one of them would speak to me.

Eventually, someone from the church came out and advised me that I had to be careful, or I
might get arrested. Gee, ya' think? What ever happened to free speech?

At the time we belonged to a different church in town--more liberal--and I went to the
the senior minister and suggested that we all come out and form a line around these people---
take the service to the sidewalks, and basically overwhelm them. Couldn't get either my church
or the one being picketed to bite.

I couldn't believe how passive they were willing to be in the face of these obnoxious people.

So, I don't hold out much hope for The Rude One's suggestion.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_prot.htm

xocet

(3,870 posts)
94. Thanks for bringing up Numbers 5:11-31...
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 02:36 AM
Jun 2014

So...a woman is to be given a trial by ordeal if a man is overcome by a fit of jealousy?


Isn't it great that such a thoroughly enlightened book is held to be a guide to proper morality?



Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
44. Agree with Rude Pundit that what's
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:37 PM
Jun 2014

good for the goose should be good for the gander.

That being said, it won't take long for lawmakers to institute buffer zones around churches and the chance is good that the courts, including SCOTUS, would uphold them citing freedom of religion.

Bickle

(109 posts)
45. Remember, every Cathokic finances, approves if, and celebrates child rape
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:48 PM
Jun 2014

Remind them of it. Every member knows that this happens, that their church actively protects these people, and as member, they lay for it.

They should be I. Prison

Remind them of it. Be as ruse and graphic as humanly possible. Remember to address their children "Has mommy and daddy ducked you today sonny? Hoe about committed min drape by programming you for mental illness believing in god?"

Call child services on them. File lawsuits to prevent indoctrination, as freedom of religion doesn't exist when you're programmed from birth to believe.

Dear and pain is the only thing that works, and they will be very angry when you dare use their own tactics against mem, especially because they know it's true. .

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
50. Lol
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:11 PM
Jun 2014

Have fun with that. Be sure to keep us updated on your progress. Especially talking dirty to the kids, I'm sure that'll end well.

Bickle

(109 posts)
65. Yup, it will
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:50 PM
Jun 2014

With a. Massive amount of criminals punished, and a nice payout after the lawsuit. Everyone wins.

And I never said "talk dirty to the kids" It's called defending their right to freedom of, and from. Religion. Which they are denied when indoctrinated from birth. It's about future bans on religion befor eighteen, and forcing religions to price their claims, or be punished for reframe

If you think it's wrong to say mean things in front of r kids, it's much more wrong to take them to church, setting thm up for a lifetime of mental illness and being stolen from.

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
73. Lol!
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 07:11 PM
Jun 2014

I wasn't sure if you could top the other post but you did it. That second paragraph is delightfully incoherent. Your brave ideas of spewing vulgarities at kids whose parents you don't like will surely succeed in future 'bans on religion befor eighteen'-- well done.

Bickle

(109 posts)
74. I don't like them stir her
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 07:18 PM
Jun 2014

So, why are these people allowed program children to be mentally ill, and pauper for them to be raped, and the criminals protected tax free. Answer that.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
106. Just fyi.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 11:35 AM
Jun 2014

The Supreme Court has ruled that parents have a fundamental right to rear their children as they see fit, and this right is protected at strict scrutiny. In other words, no person has the right to be free from parental brainwashing before the age of 18.

For what that's worth.

-Laelth

Bickle

(109 posts)
114. They do
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:13 PM
Jun 2014

As has been ruled many many times in the past. When the child is denied medical care, or in this case, when the abuse results in acute mental illness, belief in god, the child may be removed from custody because the parent is causing harm.

Why does religion get to commit fraud, when their entitled buisiness is based on standards that would put any other business in prison.,just last year, a set of parents that doesn't believe their sky fairy allows medicine killed their SECOND CHILD they were given probation after the first one. catholic priests are not in jail for child rape, and allowed to be spirited out of the country, and Ratzinger protected despite him being the head if the conspiracy tom protect them. NAMBLA has just been too stupid to not form a church.

So no, there is not unilateral ability to brainwash your child. As courts have repeatedly upheld, and morons given leniency in. The fact we don't punish these people and take their kids is a big part of the problem. Give me a child before seven and I'll give you the man. Nature programs children to lifelong assimilate information in that period as a survival trait. When yiunkeave in there a deathly fear of eternal torment for not believing in god, it's proven conclusively to stick. Can't buy a car before eighteen, can't sell your soul either

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
117. I hear you.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 08:07 PM
Jun 2014

Neglect and brainwashing, however, are very different things. Teaching your child what to think is not neglect.

-Laelth

Bickle

(109 posts)
118. It is if you're teaching them irrefutably wrong things that will harm them
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 09:05 PM
Jun 2014

Teaching a child that they will be eternally tormented by a mythical sky fairy if they fail to do and believe virtually irrefutably wrong things is making them mentally ill. The phelps children is a great example. They put children as young as 4 in danger, Louis Theroux even got one on camera getting pegged with a soda cup from a moving car. These parents are irrefutably harming their children with their beliefs, beliefs they don't even understand (Margie claims she believes every word, but doesn't know she believes in unicorns, and seems to think the giant sections about people you need to kill means "yell at them", because yelling doesn't out you in prison). So yes, teaching your child to believe stupid and wrong things is directly harmful and neglectful to them

Anyone who cannot produce god in court is crazy.programming a child to believe is abuse. Talk to atheists who still have illogical panic attacks over hell. There's a lot of them

hunter

(38,264 posts)
109. Which is filthier? Being a Catholic or being a U.S. citizen?
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 12:32 PM
Jun 2014

There's a lot of blood on my hands as a U.S. American -- murder and mayhem and poverty and crushing child abuse that my taxes have paid for.

Clearly I ought to have moved to Canada as a young man and become a mildly agnostic Anglican or something, maybe even an atheist.

Alas, here I am, still a citizen of the U.S.A. and living in a community that is largely Catholic.

You play the cards you are dealt, or you fold and leave the table.

But I ask myself, how can I be the most effective agent of progress? As an insider or as an outsider?



In some religious and family traditions, even within the Catholic Church, children are "programmed from birth to believe." That's not my family tradition, nor is it my wife's family tradition. We're all a bunch of heretics, and quite open about it too.

I believe children of most any faith, agnosticism, atheism will turn out okay if they are raised in a loving, non-authoritarian, non-abusive environment in which honest questions get honest answers from responsible adults.

Authoritarianism is the evil, not any particular religion. People who condition their children to blindly accept authority, to accept unjust punishment, to not question dogma (religious or otherwise) do the most harm, and this has little to do with religion. An authoritarian atheist is as dangerous as an authoritarian Catholic, Baptist, Muslim, Hindu, or any other religion you might choose.

Bickle

(109 posts)
115. Belonging to a religion is an entirely conscious choice
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:16 PM
Jun 2014

Living in a country is not. Not one person has to be religious. We all have to live somewhere

Certainly every soldier that disobeyed international law and went to Iraq, including my own brother, should be serving prison sentences for their crimes.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
116. Volunteering for military service is a choice too.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 08:42 PM
Jun 2014

Presumably there were social pressures at play here, within your own family and community.

Bette Noir

(3,581 posts)
47. I have a different idea.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:03 PM
Jun 2014

Women entering clinics might practice their 2nd Amendment right to carry long arms.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
54. The ugly truth
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:50 PM
Jun 2014

Once people get a taste of a life that does not need large families to be the social net That threaten relgion of all soprts, but especially the Abrahamic ones. It is why the right wing of Christianity/Islam and even Judiasm all hate the idea that women are meant to do somethign else but raise double digit families.

KT2000

(20,544 posts)
55. Why limit it to abortion
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 04:53 PM
Jun 2014

Let's harass and picket the banksters too - also their country clubs and their favorite restaurants.

rickyhall

(4,889 posts)
56. What about adult bookstores & porn shops?
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 05:00 PM
Jun 2014

Lots of cities require safe zones for these businesses, are those safe zones not "unconstitutional" now? Can I open an adult bookstore next to a church?

 

47of74

(18,470 posts)
80. Yep, see how many go from the church to the adult book store...
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:21 PM
Jun 2014

....or vise versa. Of course if you confronted such people they'd say they were "conducting research" on the book stores.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
97. Make sure the booth walls have holes to the next booth.
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 07:17 AM
Jun 2014

Maybe some hand sanitizer dispensers to make it classier.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
98. If you're going to have a counter-protest at PP
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 07:19 AM
Jun 2014

be sure to get there early as to line the gauntlet with counter-protesters as a buffer for the clients.

The Wizard

(12,482 posts)
59. The beginning of all freedom is he right to be left alone.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:02 PM
Jun 2014

“The right to be left alone—the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by a free people.”—Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438 (1928)

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
86. So true.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 11:51 PM
Jun 2014

Especially since he was just dragged up from under the bus half of DU ran over him with. I'm sure they'll all be there too.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
66. "...complete lack of medical or psychological expertise..."
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 06:54 PM
Jun 2014

Damn right they shouldn't be allowed within 35 feet of any patient! Hell, make it 350!

niyad

(112,434 posts)
78. many of us have recommended this same tactic for years. never really did get anywhere with it,
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 09:54 PM
Jun 2014

but I think it is an excellent idea.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,787 posts)
96. "spitting in her face" -- that's assault & battery. Enforce the laws, Grafton Police!
Fri Jun 27, 2014, 06:14 AM
Jun 2014

When the local police refused to enforce the laws in the South when civil rights were being protested and integration was occurring, the National Guard had to be called in.

If people are not arrested for screaming threats (the crime of assault) or spitting (the crime of battery), then bring in the National Guard.

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