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MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:28 AM Jun 2014

Why do an internet search about infants dying in hot cars because you are so afraid of it happening?

How about just not leaving your infant in a hot car. Of course I'm referring to the Georgia man who let his 22 month old cook to death all day in his car. He even went back to put something in the car midway through the day, before "discovering" his dead child. Who believes that his car did not stink to high heavens from soiled diapers at that point? Still he claims he did not know the baby was in there and went back inside the building where he works.

Uh huh,

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Why do an internet search about infants dying in hot cars because you are so afraid of it happening? (Original Post) MoonRiver Jun 2014 OP
Sure does sound very fishy! Laf.La.Dem. Jun 2014 #1
Yes, and just about as evil as it gets. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #3
I do not like to put guilt on a person until the full investigation yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #4
It does sound very bad. DawgHouse Jun 2014 #2
The most helpful thing I've seen is to always put your purse or briefcase in the backseat with the c yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #5
A legal CNN commentator, Sunny Hostin (?), says she left her daughter in the car for a few minutes MoonRiver Jun 2014 #6
I like that too yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #7
who told you it was illegal to drive without shoes on LOL snooper2 Jun 2014 #10
I've heard that, too. It might be one of those myths that persist. kcr Jun 2014 #15
I always thought it was illegal. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #18
Maybe that's where I heard it, too kcr Jun 2014 #19
It used to be before firewalls were made mandatory. AngryAmish Jun 2014 #40
I think that is on a state-by-state basis. Fawke Em Jun 2014 #68
nope, and there is only one state that says you have to wear shoes snooper2 Jun 2014 #71
Speaking from a personal experience In_The_Wind Jun 2014 #72
That is also a good idea because not everyone carries a purse or briefcase. DawgHouse Jun 2014 #22
I know that arrangement was probably safer but I never liked it. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #25
The move to the back was because of airbags. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #42
I don't think it's illegal to drive without shoes. DawgHouse Jun 2014 #24
Many article mention leaving work shoes in the back seat csziggy Jun 2014 #85
it's sick that anyone would remember their purse or their briefcase TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #76
Except that it can happen to anyone... JHB Jun 2014 #81
BULL TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #91
It's not excuses, it's prevention. JHB Jun 2014 #98
Torch, please please please read the article that JHB posted above me. Please. KittyWampus Jun 2014 #84
I wonder if the police have investigated his financial situation MoonRiver Jun 2014 #8
of course they would have TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #78
What bothers me the most is that he went back to the car at noon... Frustratedlady Jun 2014 #9
Maybe because you want to prevent it. kcr Jun 2014 #11
He also googled about how long it takes a dog to die in a hot car. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #13
That's the google I'm talking about. kcr Jun 2014 #14
I don't understand how someone can be "prone" to leaving a child in a hot car. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #16
Fatigue. ADHD. Or both. kcr Jun 2014 #20
How do you explain his going back to the car mid-day? MoonRiver Jun 2014 #23
He didn't see the baby, just like while he was driving. kcr Jun 2014 #27
Maybe he was checking to see if the child was dead yet. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #29
But he googled it. He would know, right? kcr Jun 2014 #31
Because if the baby were already dead he could report it right then. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #35
That's really reaching kcr Jun 2014 #37
You haven't been around babies much, have you? BuelahWitch Jun 2014 #70
I have children kcr Jun 2014 #73
According to the search warrant, he told police he googled about infant deaths in hot cars pinboy3niner Jun 2014 #17
Because he was fearful it could happen. kcr Jun 2014 #21
Your naive belief in the innate goodness of people is misplaced but uplifting. Michigander_Life Jun 2014 #26
It has nothing to do with that. I'm fully aware that there are parents capable of this. kcr Jun 2014 #28
Everybody who has heard about this case is speculating. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #32
I'm not speculating either way. I don't know if he did it on purpose. kcr Jun 2014 #34
Most of us can see no other logical explanation. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #38
Of course those who are jumping to a conclusion see no other explanation. kcr Jun 2014 #39
That's not fair. kcr is not "supporting" him, he/she is simply waiting for all the facts. arcane1 Jun 2014 #101
Yep. laundry_queen Jun 2014 #36
Being aware that people like that exists doesn't mean accidents don't happen. kcr Jun 2014 #41
If this guy is convicted of murder, will you except the jury's decision. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #43
More jumping to conclusions kcr Jun 2014 #44
I was just asking how you would react. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #45
Well, seeing as you didn't answer my question kcr Jun 2014 #46
I would never assume such a thing. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #48
Okay. But then what did you mean by it? kcr Jun 2014 #49
Well I deleted the sentence, so obviously I did not assume anything. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #51
So you accidentally typed that you wondered if I had an agenda, but didn't mean it. kcr Jun 2014 #52
I thought twice about it. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #55
Yes, but I still wouldn't blame the person for wondering. n/t kcr Jun 2014 #56
Who's blaming you? MoonRiver Jun 2014 #57
I kept asking because you wouldn't answer. kcr Jun 2014 #58
Ok, then MoonRiver Jun 2014 #60
Why? To find out what your chances of getting away with it might be. (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2014 #12
In the midst of all this rush to judgment... TreasonousBastard Jun 2014 #30
I believe the googling happened days before he left the child in the car. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #33
a 22 MONTH old, though? hfojvt Jun 2014 #47
Have you raised a child? MoonRiver Jun 2014 #50
At that age, they're generally not strong enough to open the belt straps on the car seat. Brickbat Jun 2014 #53
Car seats for kids that age are designed so they can't get themselves out. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #65
A 22-month-old wouldn't have the hand strength to open the buckle on a carseat. winter is coming Jun 2014 #66
oh yeah? hfojvt Jun 2014 #67
!!!! Heidi Jun 2014 #75
Do you even understand the implications of your comment. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #69
Car seats are specifically made gollygee Jun 2014 #86
Heat saps your energy. joshcryer Jun 2014 #99
Accidents happen but this doesn't seem like an accident Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2014 #54
Another thing that I don't understand ann--- Jun 2014 #59
The on-site daycare was at the corporate headquarters a couple of miles away. Brickbat Jun 2014 #61
Not only that ann--- Jun 2014 #62
Here. Brickbat Jun 2014 #63
Corporate headquarters are often several buildings and not TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #77
Exactly the same thing I was thinking. Evidence of premeditation. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #79
I always park on the top level of parking garages jberryhill Jun 2014 #104
Why put the information online at all if people who look it up could just not leave infants in cars? JVS Jun 2014 #64
It was either the most unlikely, most horrible coincidence ever, Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #74
Because he had done it before. GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #80
??? MoonRiver Jun 2014 #83
The mother researched it too BuelahWitch Jun 2014 #82
This is getting more bizarre by the minute. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #88
oh, good heavens TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #92
Yeah, she said a lot of weird things at the funeral BuelahWitch Jun 2014 #93
I heard the day care was at his work. boston bean Jun 2014 #87
That's a great point! ann--- Jun 2014 #89
Yep, 2+2=5 in this case. MoonRiver Jun 2014 #90
The daycare was on site, so he forgot to drop off and pick up? krawhitham Jun 2014 #94
There are many inconsistencies... Phentex Jun 2014 #95
According to CNN, Mom made similar searches krawhitham Jun 2014 #96
her saying that she wouldn't have had the child today TorchTheWitch Jun 2014 #97
I think he's guilty. cwydro Jun 2014 #100
And, just as important ann--- Jun 2014 #102
No idea what this guy's intentions were, but ideas to prevent this: wercal Jun 2014 #103
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
4. I do not like to put guilt on a person until the full investigation
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:41 AM
Jun 2014

but I am getting extremely close to making an exception to this case. I also heard that he dropped off the child almost daily. This is not one of those typical story where the wife drops the child off everyday, but one a rare Wednesday in April, he is required too. No this guy dropped his child off almost exclusively. Question is.....why? Divorce? Child a pain on occasion?

DawgHouse

(4,019 posts)
2. It does sound very bad.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:40 AM
Jun 2014

I have googled this myself and I don't even have an infant or child in my care at the moment. My interest was in what parents and caregivers could do to prevent this from happening. The most helpful thing I've seen is to always put your purse or briefcase in the backseat with the child.

Poor little guy.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
5. The most helpful thing I've seen is to always put your purse or briefcase in the backseat with the c
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:42 AM
Jun 2014

That is a good idea.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
6. A legal CNN commentator, Sunny Hostin (?), says she left her daughter in the car for a few minutes
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:45 AM
Jun 2014

once. She was extremely guilty about this and from then on put her shoes in the backseat with her kids. She figured she might leave her purse, but never her shoes.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
7. I like that too
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:51 AM
Jun 2014

Although it is illegal to drive without shoes......who the heck cares. I would rather a ticket then a dead child. Thank you for that. I would DEFINITELY drive without shoes if I had to drop off a child at day care even for one day.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
15. I've heard that, too. It might be one of those myths that persist.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:20 AM
Jun 2014

It never stopped me, though Sometimes shoes are too cumbersome.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
18. I always thought it was illegal.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:22 AM
Jun 2014

I do believe I was taught that during drivers' education, way back in the day.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
19. Maybe that's where I heard it, too
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:25 AM
Jun 2014

I've always wondered about the reasoning behind such a law .

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
40. It used to be before firewalls were made mandatory.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:46 AM
Jun 2014

Floorboards do not get hot anymore.

One of my great pleasures in life is driving barefoot on a long trip.

In_The_Wind

(72,300 posts)
72. Speaking from a personal experience
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 03:25 PM
Jun 2014

shifting gears on a motorcycle with a barefoot hurts. My sandal fell off.

DawgHouse

(4,019 posts)
22. That is also a good idea because not everyone carries a purse or briefcase.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:28 AM
Jun 2014

When my children were babies, we put them in their car seat but in the front, not the back (rear facing). I can't remember when the safety experts started saying that children were safer in the back seat.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
25. I know that arrangement was probably safer but I never liked it.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:32 AM
Jun 2014

I enjoyed talking to my infants while we were driving, and that was prevented with the back facing car seat.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
42. The move to the back was because of airbags.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:50 AM
Jun 2014

Front passenger seat airbags are meant to cushion an adult and were dangerous for small children and infants, thus the recommendation to move the infant seat to the back.

I don't know if side curtain airbags are a problem.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00039562.htm

DawgHouse

(4,019 posts)
24. I don't think it's illegal to drive without shoes.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:31 AM
Jun 2014

People have been doing it since the stone age. Haven't you seen Fred Flintstone?

csziggy

(34,120 posts)
85. Many article mention leaving work shoes in the back seat
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:43 AM
Jun 2014

I guess people change to less comfortable shoes to spend their day at work. One story even said the woman drove to work in her slippers, then had to get her work shoes out of the back seat to change into them. That insured she saw her child in the back seat and would not forget it.

So it's not a matter of driving shoeless, it's just a matter of changing shoes and having a mechanism to never forget their child.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
76. it's sick that anyone would remember their purse or their briefcase
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 03:43 AM
Jun 2014

or their coat or their laptop or anything else and NOT remember their own kid! None of these things is more important than a living being. If you are so distracted or self-absorbed or tired that you can forget any living being is in the car than you shouldn't be allowed to drive at all. PERIOD.

Distracted driving has become the norm in this country. Whether it's forgetting WHO is in the car or using computers or cellphones all of that has become normal while driving in this society and it's been causing accidents and deaths like crazy. NO, you can't text or talk on the phone or play with your GPS or whatever mind using widget in your car and still be attentive to what's going on in your car and what's going on on the road. Driving means having your FULL attention on safely operating the car and avoiding other dangers on the road. It's not for doing other things or daydreaming or falling asleep or into some other fugue state. A car is a dangerous weapon that requires attentive operation.

I'm sick to death of people saying that anyone could forget a LIVING BEING in their car as though it's a normal thing. Bullshit. It's not normal despite having become average. Hell, even when I'm at work there's still a part of my mind attached to my dog at home, and throughout my shift there are many times that my mind is entirely on him if only for a moment wondering if he misses me or what he's doing and my missing him. There's no way on earth I could possible forget he was in the car with me when I know I put him in there.

And maybe that's because I never drive distracted or tired or daydreaming or doing anything else that could take my mind off driving safely for my own benefit, everyone else on the road and WHOEVER is in the car with me. Whenever you drive you're responsible for any passengers in the car human or otherwise. How the hell does anyone so forget that responsibility that they leave a living being in the car alone to BAKE to death??? And even worse, how does one remember their coat or their purse or their briefcase, etc. and FORGET a LIVING BEING that as the driver they have responsibility for their safety? Anyone that can remember their THINGS and FORGET a living being in the car they have responsibility for has no business having any responsibility for any living being while driving or otherwise.

JHB

(37,133 posts)
81. Except that it can happen to anyone...
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:09 AM
Jun 2014

...which is the whole point of making it part of the routine to go into the back every time.

Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?

***
The wealthy do, it turns out. And the poor, and the middle class. Parents of all ages and ethnicities do it. Mothers are just as likely to do it as fathers. It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized, to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. In the last 10 years, it has happened to a dentist. A postal clerk. A social worker. A police officer. An accountant. A soldier. A paralegal. An electrician. A Protestant clergyman. A rabbinical student. A nurse. A construction worker. An assistant principal. It happened to a mental health counselor, a college professor and a pizza chef. It happened to a pediatrician. It happened to a rocket scientist.

Last year it happened three times in one day, the worst day so far in the worst year so far in a phenomenon that gives no sign of abating. The facts in each case differ a little, but always there is the terrible moment when the parent realizes what he or she has done, often through a phone call from a spouse or caregiver. This is followed by a frantic sprint to the car. What awaits there is the worst thing in the world.

Each instance has its own macabre signature. One father had parked his car next to the grounds of a county fair; as he discovered his son’s body, a calliope tootled merrily beside him. Another man, wanting to end things quickly, tried to wrestle a gun from a police officer at the scene. Several people -- including Mary Parks of Blacksburg -- have driven from their workplace to the day-care center to pick up the child they’d thought they’d dropped off, never noticing the corpse in the back seat.
***
“The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,” he said. “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

It's the same process that can cause you to leave your keys in the car or lock yourself out of your home. No one wants to think it's possible that it might happen with a kid instead, but it can, and has.

Whether or not this particular case is one of them, however, is what the police are investigating.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
91. BULL
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 10:46 AM
Jun 2014

It can happen to anyone that doesn't pay attention when they're behind the wheel. And like I said, if anyone operating a vehicle can remember their THINGS but not LIVING BEINGS in their car they're fucked in the head.

No possible way would I EVER forget my DOG in my car much less any other living passenger, and I already said why... because I'm ALWAYS acutely conscious about any living being in my car that when I'm driving I have responsibility for. Though there are times I might like to forget them, I CAN'T, and I CAN'T because of the grave responsibility I have when driving around any living being.

It's not at all like leaving your keys in the car or locking yourself out of the house. Keys are THINGS, and THINGS can be easily forgotten. LIVING BEINGS that are forgotten happens when the people with responsibility for their welfare stop being conscious of that fact. Leaving a living being in your car because you forgot they were there is like forgetting that your kid needs to eat or your dog needs to go outside to go to the bathroom. It is a shallow and wholely self-centered individual that needs that kid or that dog to remind them of their caregiver's responsibility to look out for their welfare.

Leaving your kid in the car because you forgot they were there is like going off to bed forgetting your kid is outside playing or in the bathtub, etc. But most people ARE conscious of where their kid or the dog is and their needs when not in the car because people have learned inappropriately that distracted driving is acceptable when it isn't and NEVER has been. Car manufacturers have more than helped this attitude along by making their cars full of things like GPS computers or cellphone chargers that give people the idea that it's perfectly ok to take your eyes off the road and fiddle with your GPS or yack on the phone, and now people are even texting on the phone while driving or using a laptop or pad.

Did you know that when car phones first came out people were constantly admonished to never talk on the phone while driving but to pull over to the side of the road and stop the car if they got a call or needed to call someone? That manufacturers made what was called "trunk phones" which were car phones meant to be kept in the trunk and only COULD be used by the driver stopping the car and going into the trunk for it so they wouldn't be talking while driving?

But once the cellphone came out that was small enough and cheap enough for the average person to have one all that safety stuff not only went away but car manufacturers just made it worse by including items in cars that shouldn't be used while driving because they're distracting.

Even old fashioned paper maps used to always be made in a huge size so that the driver HAD to pull over and stop to use one or have a passenger in the car use it so that the driver wouldn't be distracted by trying to follow map directions while driving.

Oh but now a days there's even GPS's that have a voice mode to tell you where to go so people get the impression that they don't need to think at all when they're driving. Before all this acceptance of distracted driving in recent history guess how many living beings were forgotten in cars? Practically none. Guess how many incidents of driving up over a sidewalk or crashing into a house or blowing through traffic lights by accident? Practically none. And those ones that did happen were more often than naught because of drunk driving or someone having fallen asleep at the wheel. And NO ONE made excuses for them that doing either was the least bit normal or acceptable.

But now distracted driving has become common even though people haven't changed other than society having taught them that being distracted or otherwise zombified while driving is a-ok. It's become so common that suddenly we even have obnoxious strobe-flickering red traffic lights for those people that are so fazed out while driving that they can't tell that there's a red light in front of them. Never mind that they cause headaches, vision problems and sometimes even seizures in many drivers, they're there because of there being so very much more distracted drivers that are so oblivious to a red traffic signal they now can't see it unless it strobe-flickers at them, too.

Even crosswalk and other signs aren't just bright glowing yellow anymore but now have a ring of similar vision problem and headache inducing flashing lights around them for the zombified driver to be made aware the sign is there. I've had to give up walking my dog down one particular street with one of these flashing crosswalk signs blinking and glaring away because neither me or the dog can stand the damn thing walking down the street in either direction, but the township decided these annoying blinking signs were needed for the distracted drivers oblivious to perfectly acceptable bright yellow traffic signs that are just as easily seen as they always were without the annoying blinking lights.

How is it that people don't forget their kids or their dogs when they're in the same room with them but DO forget them when they're in the car with them? Because distracted driving, not distracted living, is what has become acceptable. Anyone today that forgot their kid was in the same room with them so didn't remember to put them to bed before they went off to bed themselves or left the house entirely would be chastised as being a terrible parent, but suddenly we're supposed to believe that leaving that same kid in a hot car that will kill them in a slow and atrocious manner is just an unfortunate accident. BULL.

Anyone with kids that ride in the car should have a backseat mirror trained on what's in the back seat of the car if they're too distracted driving to remember to use the other mirrors already supplied to check the back seat. When my dog is in the car I constantly use the mirrors or even turn my head to look at how he's fairing for a seconds when stopped at a light and talk to him periodically to make sure he isn't scared or distracted by people or other dogs outside the car. Why aren't people doing this with their kids? Why is it that strapping a kid in a car seat is a good reason to forget to look out for what they're doing or how they're doing? And so much so that some people actually forget their presence in the car entirely? Because society has taught people that distracted or even zombified driving is just fine when it never used to be and when they would never forget their kid in the home or anywhere else.

A POX on this excuse making. All it does is absolve people of forgetting their responsibility to any living being passengers in their car and gives the nod to permit it to continue. People SHOULD be roundly chastised for forgetting about a living being in their car just as they would by forgetting about a living being in their home or their yard or any place else when they're the caregiver of that living being and responsible for their welfare.

Forgetting a living being is in your car that you're responsible for their well-being is just like forgetting your keys in the ignition??? That's CRAZY not to say dangerous excuse making. FUCK THAT.

JHB

(37,133 posts)
98. It's not excuses, it's prevention.
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 02:40 PM
Jun 2014

I agree with you about distracted and zombified driving, but that doesn't actually prevent it from happening again, does it?

What will prevent cases is people understanding that it can happen to them and that it is necessary to take steps to make sure it doesn't happen, as you do. Every time, so that it is just as much a part of their routine as getting into the driver's seat. Action on their part, above and beyond simply turning off the phone and leaving the GPS alone.

Phones play a part in a number of cases, but not all of them. There are plenty of other things that can distract or disrupt peoples' trains of thought. It really is the same underlying mental process as walking out without your keys -- a routine thing that gets temporarily derailed for some reason, and picked back up without realizing a step was missed. Few of those people truly "forgot" their kids, they fully believed they knew where they were but instead were remembering the dozens of other times they did the same thing and were horribly horribly wrong.

You can keep your pox because I'm not making excuses. The biggest factor in these deaths -- even above cell phones and other distractions -- is people thinking it can't happen to them because they don't see themselves as "that type of parent", that they'd never let that happen. With the possible exception of the guy in this case, you can be damn sure every one of the parents who did this fully believed that they'd never do it -- until they did.

The cause of these deaths is dismayingly simple, but prevention is even simpler -- as long as people understand that it really can happen to them and actually do the simple things to prevent it.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
84. Torch, please please please read the article that JHB posted above me. Please.
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:37 AM
Jun 2014

It speaks directly to who, how and why it's possible for anyone to leave an infant in the car by mistake.

Even you or me.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
8. I wonder if the police have investigated his financial situation
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:58 AM
Jun 2014

and whether he had life insurance on his son. Money, oldest motive for murder in the world.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
78. of course they would have
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:23 AM
Jun 2014

That's SOP for almost any investigation. The investigators know how to investigate. Us lay people don't need to be wondering if they're doing it right.

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
9. What bothers me the most is that he went back to the car at noon...
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:59 AM
Jun 2014

plus/minus, for what? To check to see if he was dead yet?

Such a sweet looking boy.

Makes you wonder how many other deaths of the same method are intentional.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
11. Maybe because you want to prevent it.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

A google search out of context isn't solid evidence. Was he a habitual googler? If his pattern wasn't googling often for various different topics then it could be more significant. And he didn't google about infants, which makes no sense if he was actually googling for info on how to kill a child that way.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
13. He also googled about how long it takes a dog to die in a hot car.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:14 AM
Jun 2014

Plus one would think that somebody so concerned about his infant dying in a hot car that he googles the subject, would be extra vigilant.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
14. That's the google I'm talking about.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:17 AM
Jun 2014

I'm not aware of another one.

Or he could be have realized he was prone to it, which explains why it happened. But without knowing why he googled it it's all speculation.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
16. I don't understand how someone can be "prone" to leaving a child in a hot car.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:21 AM
Jun 2014

But if you thought you were prone to this, wouldn't you be extra vigilant not to do it? Others have suggested tricks for preventing this from happening, such as leaving purses, briefcases, and shoes in the back seat next to the child. Although he was supposedly so concerned about leaving his child in a hot car, he took none of these precautions. Stinks.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
20. Fatigue. ADHD. Or both.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:26 AM
Jun 2014

And being extra vigilant won't necessarily prevent it. It isn't an intentional act.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
23. How do you explain his going back to the car mid-day?
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:30 AM
Jun 2014

After several hours in a car, a healthy baby, and especially a dying one, would have defecated in his diaper. Wouldn't the smell have alerted him?

You're entitled to your opinion, and the man has not been convicted, but his story doesn't pass the smell test, pun intended.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
27. He didn't see the baby, just like while he was driving.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:33 AM
Jun 2014

And it's just assumed there would be a smell and that he should have detected it. In fact, why would he go back to his car if this was an intentional act? It's another clue that tells me it was an accident. I think someone doing that intentionally would have just shut the door and stayed away.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
29. Maybe he was checking to see if the child was dead yet.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:36 AM
Jun 2014

Because, of course, he wouldn't want to alert police if he were still alive. Once again, I'm interested in learning about whether he had a life insurance policy on his son.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
31. But he googled it. He would know, right?
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:39 AM
Jun 2014

He's going to have to go back to the car eventually. He'd just wait all day until it was time to leave.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
35. Because if the baby were already dead he could report it right then.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:42 AM
Jun 2014

Would look more accidental if the child had not been in the car so long.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
37. That's really reaching
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:44 AM
Jun 2014

It wouldn't look more accidental. Plenty of incidents where parents didn't make the awful discovery till much later.

BuelahWitch

(9,083 posts)
70. You haven't been around babies much, have you?
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 01:54 PM
Jun 2014

He took his son to have breakfast right before he went to work. There would have been *something* in that diaper at noon. Add 100+degree heat and a poopy diaper and the smell would have been awful.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
73. I have children
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 10:04 PM
Jun 2014

If he just opened the door to put something in and then shut it, it might not even have registered. It doesn't make sense he'd go back to his car if he was doing it on purpose.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
17. According to the search warrant, he told police he googled about infant deaths in hot cars
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:21 AM
Jun 2014
Warrant: Cobb toddler’s dad researched child deaths inside vehicles
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014835676
 

Michigander_Life

(549 posts)
26. Your naive belief in the innate goodness of people is misplaced but uplifting.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:33 AM
Jun 2014

I wish more people were like you, and fewer like the man who planned and plotted, then murdered his own child.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
28. It has nothing to do with that. I'm fully aware that there are parents capable of this.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:34 AM
Jun 2014

I'm also aware that innocent people are accused when people jump to conclusions.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
32. Everybody who has heard about this case is speculating.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:39 AM
Jun 2014

Most people are speculating he is a vicious, cold blooded child murderer. You speculate that he is innocent. Fair enough.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
34. I'm not speculating either way. I don't know if he did it on purpose.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:41 AM
Jun 2014

I'm simply saying that it is wrong to state that there is only one reason why someone would google that. It isn't damning evidence.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
39. Of course those who are jumping to a conclusion see no other explanation.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:45 AM
Jun 2014

That's why they're jumping to that conclusion.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
101. That's not fair. kcr is not "supporting" him, he/she is simply waiting for all the facts.
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:24 PM
Jun 2014

Your comment borders on slander.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
36. Yep.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:42 AM
Jun 2014

I used to be like that. Then I went through a divorce with a sociopath, lol, so I know there are people out there who are willing to do anything for a buck, or to get someone 'out of the way' of their own personal goals. People totally lacking in empathy are everywhere, unfortunately.

In this case, that he googled it beforehand and went back at noon says everything I need to know. It was planned.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
41. Being aware that people like that exists doesn't mean accidents don't happen.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:47 AM
Jun 2014

People are wrongfully convicted because people just assume they're one of the bad guys. Prosecutors and those who want to pass tough on crime laws exploit that constantly.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
43. If this guy is convicted of murder, will you except the jury's decision.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:51 AM
Jun 2014

Or will you cry that he's been railroaded?

kcr

(15,300 posts)
44. More jumping to conclusions
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:52 AM
Jun 2014

What hidden agenda do you imagine I have? Edited to add that the post I was responding to was edited. I was asked if I had an agenda.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
46. Well, seeing as you didn't answer my question
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:55 AM
Jun 2014

I'll feel free to ignore yours. I was genuinely interested to know what you meant by hidden agenda? I'm pro leaving babies in cars?

kcr

(15,300 posts)
58. I kept asking because you wouldn't answer.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 12:22 PM
Jun 2014

You still won't, which makes me think it must have been something pretty awful. You're welcome on kicking your thread.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
30. In the midst of all this rush to judgment...
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:38 AM
Jun 2014

might I suggest the possibility that he felt some need to keep the kid in the car and was doing this goggling in the hope that the kid would stay alive?

Stupidity does not necessarily equal evil, and we might as well ask ourselves how many stupid things we have done over the years that just blind luck stopped from becoming tragic.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
47. a 22 MONTH old, though?
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 11:56 AM
Jun 2014

That's almost two years old. The kid has been walking for about a year.

Probably it is tough for a kid to get out of a car seat, maybe impossible.

But a 22 month old should be pretty mobile. I am kinda surprised he/she was not able to escape the hot car on his/her own.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
50. Have you raised a child?
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 12:04 PM
Jun 2014

A 22 month old can walk, but manual dexterity and strength are very limited. I doubt a normal child that age would be able to even undo a seat belt.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
53. At that age, they're generally not strong enough to open the belt straps on the car seat.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 12:13 PM
Jun 2014

There are several tough buckles.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
65. Car seats for kids that age are designed so they can't get themselves out.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 01:32 PM
Jun 2014

Otherwise you'd have toddlers bouncing all over the car.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
66. A 22-month-old wouldn't have the hand strength to open the buckle on a carseat.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 01:34 PM
Jun 2014

And if the straps were properly adjusted, the kid probably wouldn't be able to wiggle out, either. 5-point harnesses are pretty common on rear-facing car seats.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
69. Do you even understand the implications of your comment.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 01:48 PM
Jun 2014

wow. just wow.

I don't know how any one else on here extrapolates your comment but, this is me ---->

You should be this man's lawyer or, at least give counsel or, offer free advice.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
86. Car seats are specifically made
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:49 AM
Jun 2014

To be too difficult for toddlers to unlatch themselves or they'd take them off while their parents were driving.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
99. Heat saps your energy.
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 02:48 PM
Jun 2014

My bet is he fell asleep. Maybe woke up a few times disoriented, but I doubt he had the energy or foresight to act.

I do think he could have got out of it though.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
54. Accidents happen but this doesn't seem like an accident
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 12:14 PM
Jun 2014

Did the man have mental issues or under the influence?

 

ann---

(1,933 posts)
59. Another thing that I don't understand
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 12:23 PM
Jun 2014

I read that he was taking the child to an "on-site" day care. Didn't anyone at Home Depot notice he was there but his child wasn't in the "on-site" day care?

And - no 22-month old child is CONSTANTLY quiet. Even if he put the child in the backwards facing car seat, I'm sure that boy was NOT silent during the ride to Home Depot.

I believe this man committed murder - intentionally.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
61. The on-site daycare was at the corporate headquarters a couple of miles away.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 12:25 PM
Jun 2014

He was at a different building.

I do wonder if the daycare called to see if the kid was coming in. Ours always did if I forgot to tell them I was keeping the kids at home or whatever. They want to know if someone is sick, so they can watch for symptoms in the other kids.

 

ann---

(1,933 posts)
62. Not only that
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 12:30 PM
Jun 2014

but I would call every day at lunch to see if everything was okay. If either parent had done that - they would have known he never got there.

Where did you read that the on-site day care was a couple of miles away? I read that he WORKED in the corporate headquarters as an IT guy.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
63. Here.
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 01:25 PM
Jun 2014
8:55 a.m.: After eating, Harris puts the 22-month-old into his rear-facing car seat in the middle of the backseat of his 2011 Hyundai Tucson. Harris then drives less than a mile to the “Treehouse” Home Depot office, where he works. His son’s daycare center is not located here, but is instead about 2 miles away at corporate headquarters.


http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/timeline-of-a-cobb-county-toddlers-death/ngSSk/

I had children in daycare and did not call the daycare people every day, because if things were *not* going OK, they were quick to call me and tell me about it. No call meant things were fine. (Except for the first couple days I left my kids there -- they DID call around lunch to let me know things were going well. But after that, I trusted them to know my kids and to know when I might want to know what's going on.)

They did call, however, if the kids weren't in by their usual time, just to see what was up.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
77. Corporate headquarters are often several buildings and not
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:13 AM
Jun 2014

always all grouped together on the same site. Depends on the size of the business and the availability and size of the site. I can totally see that the daycare was in a different building nearby but on a different site while the building he worked in was elsewhere.

The time line though pretty much nails him as killing his son intentionally. The Chick-fil-a is a stone's throw from where he worked and less than a mile's drive. He took the child into the Chick-fil-a with him and buckled him back into the car when they left. He went straight to work from there. It's not reasonable that in the space of only a few scant minutes from buckling his son back into the car and parking at his office that he could have already have forgotten the child even if the child was completely silent during that time, which is doubtful being a toddler.

He parked his car on the highest level of the parking garage when there was plenty of spaces down lower and closer, and the top level had no roof and was ope to the sun and other elements.

Even if the child was not dead by the time he took his lunch break and went back to the car to put something in it, it's not reasonable that the stench inside the car of either a dead child or a toddler who most certainly would have defecated or urinated by that time normally would have been not even noticeable but overpowering.

There is no way that when he got back into his car at the end of his work day that the child most certainly dead by that time would have been giving off extraordinary odors that trapped in the hot car all day would have been nearly explosive to anyone that opened the car door. It's simply not possible that he got into his car unknowing that his dead child was in there and drove to the mall where he suddenly "remembered" his child. Just opening the car door to get in at the end of his work day would release a flood of foul odor. The police mentioned that when they arrived at the scene at the mall though the child's body was outside of the car on the ground and at least one door still open that the odor inside the car was overpowering.

Anyone that researches deaths by being trapped in a hot car because they worry for their child already knows that such a death is atrocious and if the reason for researching it is because of being so worried about it happening means that it would be ON YOUR MIND and PREVENTING you from doing it. There's no question that his internet research on animals or children dying in a hot car had to do with premeditation and wanting to know how long he should leave the child in the car to MAKE SURE he was dead before anything occurred that would have prevented that such as someone else noticing the child in the car alone and doing something about it before the child was dead or he himself needing to use the car before he was dead.

Personally, I believe that his going to the car during his lunch break to put something in it was for the sole purpose of checking to see if his kid was dead yet, and given the temperatures that day and with the car being in direct sunlight with the windows closed he would have been, and there would have been extreme odor inside the car that he couldn't help but notice even if for some odd reason he still couldn't see the child still there in his car seat.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
104. I always park on the top level of parking garages
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 10:05 AM
Jun 2014

In combination, the situation looks odd.

But on the "parking on the roof" thing, I always do that.

I used to chronically not remember where I parked in those things, especially when it is one I park in often. When I used to commute to Philly, I would always park on the roof of the lot at 15th & Arch, and I always park on the top of garage B at the airport.

Two reasons - one, as you point out, is that there is usually space on the top. My car is normally parked outside, so having it outside is not an issue. But by avoiding the lower floors with more in-and-out traffic, the car is less likely to get hit in the lot. Two, the roof is the one floor that doesn't look like any other floor. It's the only floor with distinct visual cues. I don't have to "remember my floor", since my default is "the roof".

JVS

(61,935 posts)
64. Why put the information online at all if people who look it up could just not leave infants in cars?
Sat Jun 28, 2014, 01:28 PM
Jun 2014

BuelahWitch

(9,083 posts)
82. The mother researched it too
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:18 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/warrant-toddlers-mom-also-researched-child-deaths-/ngWJX/

Wonder if they flipped a coin to see which one would kill the kid?

Dad got a "round of applause" from attendees at Cooper's funeral yesterday. Whole fucking community is sick.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
92. oh, good heavens
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 11:42 AM
Jun 2014


On Edit: Actually, I wonder if she told the police this as some kind of cover for her husband as if this research he did was nothing at all and was proof of nothing. She seems to be quite in denial at this stage, but many family members of a criminal are and make the same kind of excuses for every investigative point as the accused just because they don't want to believe their family member did something terrible and to someone they love.

I'm not sure what to make of this yet.

On Edit again: If you watch the small screen video on the right hand side of the page at the link the reporter also says that she actually said that she would not bring the child into this "selfish" world again! What that statement says is that she wishes he'd never been born. Holy cow.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
87. I heard the day care was at his work.
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 09:55 AM
Jun 2014

So, he forgets to bring in his baby to his day care at work. Then he also forgets to pick up his baby from the day care where he works and drives some place else where he discovers his mistake. Plus he went out in the middle of the day to his car and still didn't remember. Plus he was googling this.

This guy did it on purpose I believe. Although I do believe that most cases are pure tragedy.

 

ann---

(1,933 posts)
89. That's a great point!
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 10:18 AM
Jun 2014

If he honestly BELIEVED he had taken the child to the day care site, WHY didn't he go PICK HIM UP?

This is an intentional murder and those people who cheer for him should e ashamed of themselves for lacking ANY common sense to believe this an "accident."

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
90. Yep, 2+2=5 in this case.
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

I'm very interested in learning whether the couple took out life insurance for their baby.

krawhitham

(4,634 posts)
94. The daycare was on site, so he forgot to drop off and pick up?
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 12:09 PM
Jun 2014

If he truly forgot to drop off should he not have tried to pick the child up before he left the building?

Phentex

(16,330 posts)
95. There are many inconsistencies...
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 12:11 PM
Jun 2014

just so many things that don't make sense. I am thinking both parents may spend a long time in jail for this one.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
97. her saying that she wouldn't have had the child today
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 01:32 PM
Jun 2014

to bring into this "selfish" world bothers me a hell of a lot more. Basically, saying that translates to "I wish he was never born".



 

ann---

(1,933 posts)
102. And, just as important
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 04:28 PM
Jun 2014

If the man actually BELIEVED he had brought the child to the day care site, WHY would he not go pick him up? The man is a cold-blooded murderer who should die in a hot prison cell.

wercal

(1,370 posts)
103. No idea what this guy's intentions were, but ideas to prevent this:
Sun Jun 29, 2014, 05:05 PM
Jun 2014

1. Leave a shoe, wallet, house key, etc in the back seat, to jog your memory when you get out of the car.
2. This kid invented an elastic band that stops you from getting out of the car (kind of like a string around your finger):

http://alpharetta.patch.com/groups/volunteering/p/boy-invents-lifesaving-device-to-prevent-child-deaths-in-hot-cars

3. This is a more high tech system...reminds me of alarms that go off if a shopping cart leaves the parking lot:

http://www.gizmag.com/childminder-pad-baby-car-alarm/23174/

Honestly, I never had a problem with this. I think its because I'm a fairly aggressive driver, and I would deliberately drive more carefully when a baby was on board. So I was continuously cognizant that a baby was in the back. But for the absent minded, there are some tricks to prevent it.

Quick side note: In an ancient time (1970's), babies were often in the front seat. I realize that is a dangerous spot in the car, especially with air bags...but its odd how unintended consequences pop up. Probably moving babies to the back seat has saved thousands of lives - but it is partially responsible for this type of death.

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