You decide.

doing anything. Complain that #bringbackourgirls hashtag is misandrist because there was no #bringbackourboys earlier in the year? Are their fingers broken? Do they not know how to use twitter? Do they just expect women to do everything for them? Jeez.

Say that sexual violence against males isn't taken seriously and then laugh about male rape?

Twisted whiny fuckers.

Its not that they have zero legit issues, although they have very few. It's that they elevate all these perceived slights and wrongs to the point of conspiracy and take no responsibility for anything and "what is something of a shock is the verbal and physical violence of their reaction."... "While some of them voice legitimate and sometimes disturbing complaints about the treatment of men, what is most remarkable is the misogynistic tone that pervades so many."

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/a-war-on-women

yet there are some DUers who apparently don't grasp that by repeating MRA "facts" they're supporting anti-feminists rather than just advocating for men.


There may even be a few DUers who actually buying in to the MRA anti-feminism but none have admitted that.

to raise awareness and change laws worldwide.

But our society doesn't show enough empathy with the plight of men. Only when it happens to women it starts to be taken seriously.

Here is one example:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-08-03/news/fl-alimony-reform-women-20130731_1_first-wives-first-alimony-reform-alimony-law

"To press for reform, Michau joined a new group, Florida Women for Alimony Reform, who are among those trying once again to present Gov. Rick Scott with a bill they say would modernize the state's archaic alimony statutes."

As more and more women start to out earn men only then we will see changes to archaic alimony laws in our country.

whatever that means. They're mostly against feminists. I'm wary of anyone who is obsessively against things instead of for something.

Hope SCOTUS does the right thing on Hobby Lobby. It would be a very slippery slope for lots of other issues if they don't.

for religious reasons, I'm going to blow a gasket.

who want to go back to the days where the man brought home the bacon and their role was to tend to her husbands every need and the children, with no other life.

It's a sad way to feel, imho, but one that exists none the less.

Thing is, no one is preventing them from living their life they way they want to.

They have some very twisted dangerous thinking going on there.

But what the hell does this woman know about the lives of American women? Seriously - it's all fine and well that she wants to speak -

But I trump her voice in America. As do you.

Sorry - but it had to be said.

Erin Pizzey is female.
Erin Pizzey is married.
Erin Pizzey has two children.

I'm off to look at a picture of her. I have a theory . . .

Even though she had a drastic change in stance it's a bit hard to call her a traitor to women, considering she opened one of the first women's shelters in the world, and started what later became the largest DVO in the UK.

My theory was that she was older.

She's also British.

The opinions of this 41 year old black American woman living and paying taxes out the nose in America (we are the top 3% in my household) trumps her opinions.

When Gloria Steinhem stands with her I will listen. Until then - she doesn't get my respect.


Go ahead - paint me evil and bad. Don't care. She doesn't and did not pay my way in this life and she certainly didn't open any doors for me in America.

ETA - this is like that looney nutcase Phyllis Schlafly giving dating advice a few months ago. When was the last time SHE waxed her bikini line before a date. Uh - probably neveeeeeeeeeer.

Who gives a shit if someone waxes a bikini line.
And this part of your post also sounds ageist to me.

100% So sue me!

This is the woman that recently said: -

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/04/15/3426856/prominent-republican-women-need-to-be-paid-less-than-men-so-they-can-find-good-husbands/

Another fact is the influence of hypergamy, which means that women typically choose a mate (husband or boyfriend) who earns more than she does. Men don’t have the same preference for a higher-earning mate.

While women prefer to HAVE a higher-earning partner, men generally prefer to BE the higher-earning partner in a relationship. This simple but profound difference between the sexes has powerful consequences for the so-called pay gap.

Suppose the pay gap between men and women were magically eliminated. If that happened, simple arithmetic suggests that half of women would be unable to find what they regard as a suitable mate.

Obviously, I’m not saying women won’t date or marry a lower-earning men, only that they probably prefer not to. If a higher-earning man is not available, many women are more likely not to marry at all. [...]
The best way to improve economic prospects for women is to improve job prospects for the men in their lives, even if that means increasing the so-called pay gap.

she started from a feminist point of view and shifted to a humanist view. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

so do I. whoopity fucking doo doo. means jack shit. giggle. fucking giggle. shit is about to get real up in here.

being married and have children. I don't look down on male feminists with disdain but I disagree with their views.

You can't put people into a box and tell them to conform. That isn't how the world works.

however there is a lot of overlap about the issues both groups are passionate about. For example domestic violence and number of shelters available as both sides bring up astute points.

As for me I don't view the world in a black and white narrative.

The fact that the few around here who insist that there are 'some good ones though!' never name any when asked says all that any rational person needs to know.

it is simple really if you step back to look at if from afar IMVHO.

and advocating for more shelters for men to go to when they suffer domestic abuse doesn't align with the narrative you trying to paint.

Thank you!

I'm taking a hostile attitude - vicious if you will - against anything or anyone or any group that I feel is a threat to my personal liberty, freedom, and prosperity. Once you cross over and join hands with someone in that group - Shit List. Mine. You are on it.

Why? They are dangerous nutjobs.

These people have ramped up their efforts to appear mainstream and reasonable and they must be challenged at every opportunity.

and filled his mind with hate. No, Mra's are nto dangerous at all (sarcasm).

Erin Pizzey is a woman; and in her early career did a great deal of good. She founded the first woman's refuge in Britain if not in the world, and raised awareness of domestic violence. She came to the conclusion, however, that much domestic violence is reciprocal, and fell out with feminists on this issue; becoming as a result increasingly paranoid on the subject of feminism. Judging from things that she's written, a difficult relationship with both parents, who had a very dysfunctional relationship with one another, may have influenced her attitude.

One can agree or disagree about the REASONS why she went off the rails after initially starting a refuge for abused women; but not about her gender...

Anything else?

Keep it up!

Time for a day without women in America.

Let's see how far commerce gets if we all just sit down and do nothing for a day.

Who is with me? Are you?

Because rest assured that snot is not.

Seriously- that would seriously fuck up America if we all just 'stopped' on Christmas Eve. Or maybe like the second week of September. That way all the kids in America would be back at school - or would try to be back at school.

Teachers, bus drivers, teacher's aides, cafeteria workers, crossing guards -that right there alone would really fuck America up for a day!

I is pissed. I is pissed big time!

almost started an OP ...

but, it did not make sense, I was so pissed.

so screw it.

I am gone to take out my anger on my yard.

Grass needs mowing = I WILL CUT IT DOWN !!!!!

anytime I hear about this all I can think of is thats its a bunch of guys with small dicks that are afraid of women-

Totally on the mark.

Do they really imagine saying Hillary Clinton's name is some sort of brave masterstroke? Or do they realize that, rightly or wrongly, Hillary Clinton is the most vilified woman in American Politics? If attacking Hillary Clinton carried any sort of risk how many people would be suffering from having done it - all Republicans and many, many Democrats.

Heck, I'd be suffering it (as I regularly describe Clinton as a corporatist middle-of-the-roader).

Bryant

I don't agree with those reasons, but I have stopped worrying about it.

She is going to win in 2016. There are enough sane people here in the US who don't buy it.

But we'll see what happens between now and then.

Bryant

and I apologize for apparently insinuating otherwise. I was talking more about the attacks on Hillary Clinton - and how about how brave these people consider themselves for attacking Hillary Clinton.

But death threats against anybody, including Hillary Clinton are a big deal.

Please forgive me for my inappropriate comments.

Bryant

no need to apologize, I just worry anytime someone portrays these nutjobs as just something to laugh off. The fact that they doxx women is indeed chilling to me.

they need help.

I heard that they had an even larger turnout than the huge "American Spring" protest a few weeks back.

I counted about 30 in the photo. The women were absolutely the worst. What is the psychological makeup of these women? Must be that negative attention/self-hating.

But want to make them for everyone else. They are submissive little lap dogs who think mean angry feminists are out to destroy their husband and their way of life.

hell, no one is stopping them from being the leave it to beaver mom. Find a husband that likes that and go all out, as far as I'm concerned, if that floats their boat.

But to try to make it so gains for women who want something different by attacking the feminists and the gains feminism has made is grotesque to me.

And will do what ever it takes to get it. I don't know that they are married, but I bet if you took away their autonomy, they would be the first to scream. Maybe it is about money. Wait for the book to follow.

Most women have it to some extent or another. Many grow out of it. Others embrace it, like these women.

and she blames feminism for the fact her father made her watch her mother's corpse rot?

and apparently destroys love and marriage.

Makes sense to her.

Interesting post. So-let's talk about your mother. Interesting that she confuses feminism with her mentally ill mother. Internalized. Taking responsibility for the abuse in some way and demonizing other women who she sees as having her mothers' traits. Still a victim. Ouch. The kicker is her dad who was also violent and abusive, and she doesn't see that as institutionalized. I understand, my mother abused me, which was hideous. When a mother abuses you, it's as if she whispers into your soul with a stain that is hard to erase, this is what it is to be a female, a woman. You really have to work at separation. I did not see my mother for 4 years before her death. Cut off contact completely. When she was dying with lung cancer I did not visit. And some of my family thought that was heinous. When I got the letter she was dying, all I felt was relief. As if a small part of me had held my breath all these years. Illuminating.

while, by supporting MRAs, she's excusing her abusive father.

patriarchy is institutionalized, and sexism is internalized, it does not really surprise me. One means you have a whole system to fight against/take your power back from, as well as a perp. The other is an aberration comparatively.
My father was a violent, mentally ill alcoholic who abused me as well. And while it was very damaging, he never made any effort to be other than what he was. My mother on the other hand made it personal, as if my shortcomings were the reason for the abuse, and hence my responsibility. Like this woman, my father also beat and raped my mother. She does not seem to have much feeling about her father, which to me signifies a thick impenetrable layer of denial. And fear, rage, and pain which I would think she projects into the issues surrounding her mother, and feminism. Cause she does not seem to be healing does she? After all of the disclosure about the mother, still no closure.

which is ironic that both sides are in agreement on some issues.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/teenage-hookup-sex-leaves-feminism-behind-20140627-zsolw.html

Maybe you're just ugly.

our species is on a path where we are more likely to go extinct because of a shrinking population in the future long before global climate change temperature variations take us down. Indeed, that is pessimistic view of the future but as the apex species in the animal kingdom, or more precisely the tree of life we will be the first to go extinct just like the dinosaurs if we don't change course.

easily available charts that show our population is growing too MUCH for susatinability:

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
http://timeforchange.org/growing-world-population
http://www.globalsmallbusinessblog.com/2013/08/according-to-united-nations-world.html

Our species is growing, growing out of control, largely because of backward societies that think the duty of women is to breed!

OMG, I don't think I can take anymore of this right wing nonsense!

Pizzey is just angry that women are speaking out for themselves and don't need figureheads like her who are only looking at life from their point of view and refusing to see any others side:

"But Pizzey knew from her own experience (her wealthy, socially elite parents were mutually abusive, and her mother violent to Erin), and from what the women in her shelter told her, that most partner violence is reciprocal."

<snip>

Pizzey told her standing-room-only audience that for gender politics "Canada is the scariest country on the planet." Scary to men who suffer because of it, certainly, but apparently not to most other Canadians, who remain curiously indifferent to the demonstrable misandry permeating the institutions that define and shape our culture.


http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=a41532d6-d4df-46a2-a784-f6499938f3b0

line from one of the female misogynists in attendance.

Of course, that crowd ate that stuff up and laughed at it, also laughing at prison rape jokes.

Because, of course, they care so deeply about men's issues and are totally not a bunch of rightwing woman-hating miscreants.

to protect themselves from the scary feminists?

They both agree on 90% of things whether they realize it or not. It seems both sides look for the tiniest ways to disagree with the other as an excuse to hate each other.

MRAs feel the system has been skewed too far in favor of women and that men have now become a disadvantaged group. On the other hand, the only inequalities feminism acknowledge are ones that disadvantage women. Yet both sides feel like they support real gender equality. Both are wrong in their own ways in how they view the world but ultimately both want the same conclusion. There are wackos too on both sides. But I'm not talking about them right now.

I think there are some legit gripes especially when it comes to the court system. Most men in this country feel like they get taken to the cleaners by women when it comes to divorce court or family court. And men don't feel as if there is anywhere to turn if they are a victim of domestic abuse. A new UK study shows women are just as much the aggressor in domestic disputes as men.
Issues like mental health and homelessness are also big male issues that deserve some face time. Incarceration rates, PREA, and unequal representation at trial, especially among black men, is another area. You dont hear feminists talk about these issues. And if men go to a feminist conference to talk about it they'll get shot down.

Example:
A man goes to a feminist conference and wants to talk about unequal and outdated alimony laws. Feminists then shout him down saying we need to fix pay inequality first. The men then claim that any pay inequality is due to social choices made by women. The feminists say its not choices and that it's discrimination. And then it starts a fight and no one gets anywhere. So eventually those men decide..."we need our own forum. These women can't be reasoned with." That's how this all starts...

as analogous groups.

It says so much about you both.

MRAs are gender bigots, nothing more.

I've monitored the activities of AVFM for years before it became something the media talked about. They are indeed a hate group bordering on cult status. The leader Paul Elam, rakes in about $100K or more a year by writing woman hating screeds with his friends on AVFM. He doesn't do anything for men and boys with the money either. He admits he pockets it. I don't know if links are allowed here but I'll put just one to my blog so you can see for yourself what a racket this Elam guy's got going.

mancheeze.wordpress.com

He also manufactured the 'feminist death threats' supposedly made to the original venue at the Hilton but the Detroit police NOR the hotel have reported any such threats. Elam told that story to raise another $33K and is now asking for another $20K. It's a huge money racket.

One highly respected MRA is telling other MRA"s at AVFM that Elam needs a quarter million dollars to help him overthrow something. Who knows what. Probably some silly lawsuit that was mentioned over and over at the conference.

The PR person for AVFM stated there will be more attacks and doxxing of individual women that AVFM doesn't like. They've already started harassing a female TIME reporter.

MRA's think that because a few women are involved with them that they aren't misogynists. One of the highest profile women, Karen Straghn, gave a 30 minute talk at the con about how Suffrage was a bad idea and that giving women the vote without 'responsibilities' was wrong. Yes, she literally talked about how ANY feminist struggle, including the right to vote, was a bad idea. In fact, her entire talk was based on anecdotes from the 18th and 19th century, taken out of historical context and made to paint women and feminists in a bad light. She admitted 'I'm an anti-feminist and I don't give a shit.'

Anyone here standing up for AVFM and MRA's should be treated with scorn and suspicion. You can't be for equality if you tolerate a hate group such as AVFM.

There is still a men's movement. It began in the 70's and remained alongside and friendly to feminism. However THESE current MRA movements are indeed male supremacy movements.

this thread wopuld balloon after this sexist decision by the supreme court. A rogues gallery of goons is coming out.