poverty truly understands the obstacles that "all the respectable people" have allowed to be thrown up in front of them.

I share and understand your outrage.

Other banks in Boston simply would not start an account for me. I tried all of them. Like I said, I have since learned that MA is apparently very bad about this compared to other states (VA has plenty of banks that just don't care at all).

Eventually I got with USAA, but that took getting back on my financial feet first, which took an amazing amount of help from a lot of people.

I had a friend that had an account closed over bounced checks and to this day ... 20 years later ... she still cannot get an account. For her, this was particularly difficult when she was on U/C, after she lost a job ... the State wanted an account to transfer the money into.

And then, the State required those receiving U/C to call in to report their job seeking efforts. Question: What's the first thing people let go when money is tight? That's right ... the phone! So she had to get a hand full of quarters to use the pay phone at the corner.

Our worst experience as starving students was with citibank. We had another bad experience with Bank of America after they absorbed the smaller bank we had accounts with. After that, hell no, we were done with banks and now do all our business with credit unions. (And of course some credit unions are bad too...)

I'd like to see the U.S.A. Post Office establish a debit-card-and-free-money-order system for lower income people that would put the scummy check cashing places and banks that prey on the poor out of business.

Why should a single $15 overdraft keep any other bank from ever giving you an account?

plan ran up a cell phone bill of over $700, which with autopay was charged to my checking account when I only had around $5 to my name. When I wasn't able to pay it all off quickly enough the bank closed my account, and it was quite a while before I could get any bank to let me open an account.

Thanks to the PATRIOT act, one needs to provide proof of identity using the limited set of acceptable documents. No documents, no account, regardless of how much or how little in funds you want to deposit.

you can't open a US bank account without a US address.

Is it your experience that having a bank account closed for recent adverse closure in Boston, MA and then trying to get a new account? For that matter, do you or have you ever lived in Massachusetts? You are aware that banking laws differ by state?

I tried to deposit money into a new account at a new establishment this summer. It took over and hour and a half to get that set up! I went back a month later to add my husband to the account. It took another hour. They did a background check on him....a background check...while we waited. Things are weird out there.

I suggest that everyone walk into a new bank and try to open a new account. You would be amazed!

He must not have tried!

Just what do you think they do when they ask for your SSN and then walk away to a computer for a little bit? They're pulling your credit report. Come back with the wrong black marks, and they won't open an account for you.

"Well why didn't you just...?"

Trust me. Somebody who hasn't eaten in two days is much, much better at coming up with every possible angle than some dude commenting on a Slate story.

Poor people make bad choices because those are the choices they have.

saying Why don't you just, must be frustrating. So easy for them, and they are thinking if it happened to them, they could "just -" It's a form of mental self protection.

mental self protection.

Last week, I was working a community service project with some young mentees. We were working a soup kitchen/free clinic for the homeless. You'd be amazed at the stories they have to tell.

Afterwards, I was talking with the mentees and they all got the message ... We are all 2 or 3 paycheck and/or 1 bad decision from being homeless.

Later on, I volunteered there, and wound up managing the volunteers.

When new kids came in, I had a rule: your first night, you don't serve; you don't help. You stand in line, get food, sit at the table, and eat dinner. Bonus points for talking to the people around you.

What was shocking (or, really, not) is how many kids quit halfway through that.

For example, my wife was working on an (American) Indian reservation. We didn't have much trouble fitting in. We all had a wonderful time, even when I got in trouble for the wine box they found in our trash.



Yes, I bought the wine box at the Jewel market in Albuquerque, and yes, I drank it all fairly slowly with my dinners. What can I say? No excuses. Sometimes I'm an idiot.

The apartment they gave us had holes punched and kicked in the walls and doors, mirrors broken, etc.. It reeked of privileged white people frustration.

The damage was from white people who thought they knew how to "help" these poor Native Americans and therefore totally alienated themselves from the community. Nobody would talk to them and they had a contract to fulfill. Worse, this was before cell phones. There were just two pay phones in this community and you always had to wait in line for them. Waiting in line for a pay phone with people who despise you has got to be torture.

Anyways, if you ever want to know what people need, just ask. Don't tell them what they "should" be doing, or "what you would do." That just makes you an asshole.

I suppose the kids you "lost" couldn't do that.

dividends not just to the homeless, but to those who are serving them.

especially when one allows themselves to see themselves in those they are serving.

frosts my buns is: "You're being too negative, I know 'others' who have been in your situation and they got out of it pretty quickly."

This line is also meant to imply that 'they' also accomplished their "getting out of it" with absolutely no assistance... which is usually never true. The claim is that not thinking about or approaching a problem with a sunny attitude is the main problem and that I should just fellow that gem and I'd be just fine. Have a neighbor who throws that one at me occasionally and I just have to walk away and not talk to them for a while. The best part about it is that the tables have turned on him recently and he's actually sweating a bit (albeit he has investments on a small scale and a retirement so he has nothing to sweat accept the feeding his greed problem).

I have been poor most of my adult life, regardless of what I do to make myself marketable and valuable as an employee, I've made adjustments in the people with whom I associate, relocated, education upgrades to professional skills, even higher ed with an advanced degree. I'm still flailing at least half of the year, every year, my location doesn't matter either. This is a universal fact of life in 21st century America... and has been for some time prior.

It is a product of our atomized non-society that rejects the very concept anything sociological because it goes against the very basis of our sociopathic non-society.

That's why I have to just walk away, there's no reasoning with those who have not experienced the issues being discussed so they can't and don't want to try to understand what is being related by the person they are condescending to.

Trying to converse with people who do not want to know the truth is like ... lying. And I don't like lying or liars, so I too walk away. Even from some of my closest relationships.

She's so informed and I am glad to see she's still writing about how it really is for so many.

Didn't know about that book, I'll have to read it. Thanks!

I had a similar experience as the OP in that I had difficulty opening a checking account because my credit had taken a hit. I was gainfully employed but had moved from California, back to the east and had no banking relationship. Not every bank will "open an account for you with a $5 bill".

That's just simply not the case. Many have account minimums even for savings accounts and if you are a total stranger to them, ie: no other family members do business with them, etc. then they are under no obligation to serve you in any way.

That was a case of wrong place wrong time for me...

and see how far that gets you.

So, you're calling a fellow DUer a liar? I happen to believe the author of this post, because I've been a bank manager and I know that banks have a plethora of "rules" that can make obtaining a checking account very difficult. These rules vary from state to state, and from bank to bank.

Please, consider self-deleting your offensive slam on recursion.

He'll never self-delete.

I will have to relegate him to my IL, where reside the other verbal bullies I no longer have to tolerate.

All new account holders are run thru Chek systems (or similar technology) for adverse history and account opening is only approved if the history is clear. OFAC is another check required for BSA by the 2001 Patriot Act. No fly list = no bank account.

In recent years, high fee, high restriction "second chance" banks like Woodforest National have been trying to scoop up these forgotten folks, but as seen by the fact that there are more check cashing/payday loan locations in the US than McDonalds, that is where people are going.

Guessing it may have been a decade or so since you tried to open an account and have never had adverse actions reported on your accounts. Your may want to reconsider challenging folks unless you are certain of your facts. On this, you are incorrect.

Heard that statistic on NPR the other day and I wanted to cry. Between cashnetusa and whoever Montel Williams is hawking, it seems payday lending is every other commercial on the teevee these days.

My dad did voluntary budget counseling for united way for decades. His big issue was 9% credit cards and how that debt is like a prison. He is rolling in his grave these days.

Fun fact: if you go to thread info, you can see all edits, and the adverse notice was in the original.

We call what OP described 'sustained overdraft' - an unadressed overdraft with no history of regular deposits to offset. Add in overdrawn to sustained overdraft and your ss# is flagged as high risk along with the existing account being closed.

As far as buying your way out, the only option is to pay all outstanding fees to the originating bank and start appeals for removal. Any bank contracted with Chek systems will not allow the account to be opened even if the prospective customer has cash in hand and willing to enroll in direct deposit on the spot.

If you ever were in 'banking/credit', my guess is that it was likely a very long time ago, or too short of a stint to have had the experience of dealing with this.

I ended up not needing the appeals process (which he even gave me the paperwork for) because USAA ended up picking me up 18 months later. But still.

Glad they were able to help you. As a vet, they exist FOR you.

I have been in the position to have to explain this black hole to more people than I care to remember. Those seeking to avoid child support (and will pay the check cashing fees to stay offgrid) I have no sympathy for, but those living paycheck to paycheck & getting caught in the net break my heart every time.

Bullfuckingshit.

The OP, while good folk story, details inconvenience and difficulty, not an unwillingness of the system to accommodate you.
It will absolutely accommodate anyone, but often at a high price.

So help me out with what I'm in "denial" about?

You don't want your mind bothers by us poors.

... to your use of the term "beautiful" in describing Dreamer Tatum's mind.

I think it must be a dark, ugly place indeed.

anymore? Yes, it "merely" makes it more expensive. Well, that was the OPs point, no?

I my county-- not just my town-- there are 31 banks. When I moved here, I checked with each one of them about opening an account. While several offered free checking and/or free savings accounts, not one of them would open a checking account for less than $100, or a savings account for less than $50.

Your reality is not necessarily everyone's reality, so sweeping statements are best avoided.

Peace.

The dime I used was a bent silver dime with a hole in it. In return for opening the account, I got a piggy bank and small spinning top

I was in my twenties and had messed up financially I guess... I don't even remember what happened, but the ONLY way I was able to get a bank account again was having a friend with a mom who was a manager at a bank. She ignored the policy/regulations and opened one up for me.

Have an account closed and it can be difficult to get another bank to open one.

Most use ChexSystems to verify your past banking practices.

Might want to read this article for a little clarification.

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/checking/denied-checking-account.aspx

member of DU in 2014? You have a great shot at winning.

I am so sorry you had to go through so much suffering.

Sorry it happened to you.

I had to get some copies years ago from Missery-

https://usvitalrecords.org/missouri/orderbirthcertificate.html

And my license expired about a month after I lost the car (which, to Mississippi, means I stopped existing). Actually one thing I've noticed is that records departments still seem surprised if you don't live in the state you were born in.

(Anyways, yes, my dad could eventually with enough fees pick up my birth certificate for me.)

At least by now there is as much improvement as that you might not have to physically go to MS to get a birth certificate.

Such as getting your request notarized. No valid ID means you can't make the request. Either in-person or by mail.

I think the OP said he had the driver's license, but was missing the proof of citizenship in the car.

You get between a rock and a hard place, as to get an ID you need an ID - it's getting ridiculous.

But even growing up pretty poor in the 1980s (we were on AFDC and WIC), I had no idea what was waiting for me when I let that license expire.

from NC I had to physically go to the closest courthouse in TX to get a new birth certificate before I could transfer my CDL. Fortunately it was only a 60 mile drive and a few hours of my time.

It was basically a stroke of luck and my dad knowing the right people in the MS records bureaucracy, and even that took months and months.

You can get a PO Box, but that costs money.

Then your mail goes to the last house you lived in and the people there don't always keep it.

I haven't had the problem, but had clients who do.

The Matrix has you, Neo...

Like I said above, I've never had as much cash at one time as when I was poor. I would do work for somebody over the weekend (I can work really hard when it comes down to it) and come out with $500 cash. When was the last time a normal person had $500 cash on them, you know?

Being poor is about more than lack of money (though it's about that too). The PO Box I wanted (and I did try) required a valid ID and an electronic payment.

I haven't had to get a new bank account in 20 years and got a post office box more than 20 years ago. So I haven't run into that.

Geez why do they need an ID for a PO Box.

I know about the cash - I see that a lot, too.

many P.O.s won't give you a box without another permanent address... when I was homeless I was not able to get a P.O. Box! even with an ID

even just walking down the street, lots of times they'll take it from you too. They all know anyone that has any amount of cash on them has to be a drug dealer...

They aren't impossible to get, but pretty close!
Great OP BTW.

In my particular case, I can get a new copy of my birth certificate by mail.

The county where I was born charges $28 for the new copy. How do I write that check without a bank account? Ok, now gotta get a money order. Which adds additional fees, and lots of places won't issue the money order without ID.

The request has to be notarized. Costs nothing if I walk into my bank, but I have a bank. For someone without a bank or similar institution, getting the request notarized costs more than $28 in most places. And again, requires a valid ID.

How do I get that valid ID? By showing my birth certificate. Which I can't get without a valid ID.

There are an awful lot of traps out there that most of us don't think about, because most of us won't fall into them - I've got a secure place to keep my birth certificate, and I've got an up-to-date driver's license since I have a car. So we believe the solution to a problem is very easy, and some of us post things implying the poor person being stupid or lazy.

yeah I know what the hurdles are and what it takes. A little bit of a pain in the ass but you do what you have to do.

9/11 changed a lot of state's laws regarding ID. NY's system is insane. I could buy a car and get a NY title for the car, but they would not issue a driver's license because they didn't think I had sufficient proof of my NY address and my identity. Even though the address was on the title they just issued, and I had a valid CO license saying who I was.

I had to present a paper copy of a utility bill in my name - printed from the online billing was not enough, and the utilities do not make it easy to switch from "paperless" to "send me a bill". And my cell phone bill was not sufficient because the area code on the phone number was not in NY, despite the address being in NY.

I could get through those hoops only because I was paying for utilities, and I had a job where I could go to the DMV during work hours, to be turned down 5 times. If I had been staying with someone else, or had a job where I couldn't spend hours at the DMV, I'd have been SOL.

I was really glad to see that link because I keep forgetting to order one. it knocked my socks off to see the charge for a certified copy. I can't afford that normally, so I'm glad I know so I can save up for it.

and this done to a vet. What a racket in that impound scam. One mistake and this vet is fucked....america, you're heading for a mighty fall. Can't keep letting the system just trash people lives, over the filthy lucre no less. And human beings are just to keep taking shit like this because "it's america and the system" boneheads say stupid garbage like that.

I mean, I knew what they were, but it literally hadn't occurred to me that they were organizations I could join and that could help me (I still thought of them as where my grandfather hung out on Sundays). I really wish more GWOT veterans got the word about them.

to help vets. I'm glad to see the pieces finally being picked up by you and your family. They truly are a blessing.

I mean, I was crashing on different friends' couches, so I didn't think of myself as "homeless", but that's definitely what I was.

Once I was back stable again (and had joined the Legion) I volunteered immediately for homeless vet outreach coordinator. The trick is finding them, because like me they don't always even realize that's what they are...

when some one doesn't understand this it's because they don't want to.

That whole "arrogance of ignorance" thing gets on my nerves sometimes, you know? Tell somebody to walk a mile in your moccasins, and one gets you ten he'll tell you you're barefoot. Amazing, really, how much people would rather cling to what they "know" is true, than acknowledge someone else's experience.

-- Mal

It's a result of privilege mixed with a lack of empathy.

Because women I know would complain about people explaining to them that they didn't actually have the problems they had, and I thought, "hmm... that sounds a bit familiar..." Then I thought what that would be like to live with not just as an annoyance during a dark time but as a constant background radiation your entire life.

the realities of life for so many.

I believe in karma and I think karma's gonna bite his ass hard and deep.

but the documents? That really sucks. And without point. They want to get paid, so why make it impossible? Maybe they make more off selling the car.

Though you'd think my being willing to just sign the title over would do it for them, but they have a "process"...

Nobody with a conscience going into the business of making money off the misery off the poor. Pay-day loan sharks, pawn shop owners, impound lot owners, repo men, all of them are evil as fuck.

ask why you did not collect unemployment benefits?

Just seems strange, as when I left the military I received unemployment benefits for nearly a year (I went straight into college).

disqualify someone from receiving UI, one would think, although it might instead qualify one for various financial aid programs.

The caseworker (I did go to one) said I couldn't get unemployment while I was taking classes. And I had never been technically employed in MA, so dropping out wouldn't have helped (and the student loan stipend was what I was eating at that point, so dropping out wasn't really an option...)

I was exempt from looking for a job since I was in school full time. All I had to do was go to the vet rep at the University and she would sign off on forms that stated I was a "full time student". She would also sign off on my GI Bill/Army College Fund paper work.

The Army was pretty much the best bet I ever made, sure I ended up in a war but for a 3 year enlistment I managed to save nearly $10K from wages in that time, got around $45K for college through the GI Bill and Army College fund. Was able to file for a "loss of income" and received Federal and State Grants. I then managed to get an Athletic Scholarship in my second year.

All this ran out in my 3rd year and I pretty much worked full time at Little Ceasars Pizza making $7 and hour. I also went deep into hours and since I was pretty much broke, so I took around 24 credit hours each time so I could graduate early as I could not see me being able to afford college/hectic schedule for my last year.

Oh, this same Vet rep from the University helped me get my first "real job" also. On my last visit to her for my GI Bill stuff she said that she was gonna make a calls to other vets that had been through the University and see if they could help me out....was hired 2 weeks after graduation at a supplier to Honda in the engineering department where a vet worked that went to the same school I did.

Every University has a veterans rep there....did you have the vet rep review your case at the time?

Leaving the military voluntarily would disqualify people in many states - most states require you to have been "fired" from your last job.

Also, being a full-time student would also disqualify people in many states.

Glad you're back, sorry that all that shit happened to you.

Thank you for sharing.

I mean, here is a "great liberal city" like Boston, and MineralMan mentioned the Twin Cities, another "great liberal city" and yet the government of those cities has created a shakedown system for parking. And how many people lose their cars and/or lose hundreds of dollars that way? (Paging William Pitt, paging Mr. Pitt, that looks like a story to me, although it does not speak well for liberal government. We wonder WHY sometimes people hate the government, things like THIS are one reason why.)

I have to note this &quot Think about the gall it takes to just tell a Boston PD sergeant to fuck off like the impound owner did...)"

Well, so much for the police state. Think about the gall it takes for an American citizen to know his rights and to not be intimidated by the police.

My life is juggling a series of bills to avoid things getting shut of or canceled and hoping to god the car doesn't break down again (check engine light went on today and the car started stuttering in idle, fuck me).

I am incredibly thankful to the Duers that helped me get out of the hole I was in which gave me the space to get a tight budget going and lessen the stress and fear a bit.

People don't understand the intense fear, stress and depression the working poor (and the poor) live under every single day. Well most people don't, but the people here on DU do. It's never ending and eventually you lose hope that life will ever get any better and you just exist.

I would lie on my mattress (I had sold my bedframe) and just hear my own teeth grinding and not be able to stop them. God that was a bad time.

I never cease to be infuriated when I see a bunch of clueless privileged middle-class teenagers and college students whining on Reddit about how much their life sucks. Fuck all you entitled pieces of shit.

then get a $600 ticket for driving without insurance, then have their license suspended because they had no money to pay the fine, then drive on a suspended license with no car insurance because they had to go to work, and then get another ticket, this time with an even stiffer fine, and then not be able to pay that fine, etc ad nauseum.

Then there they are, good kids, 20 yrs old, driven to hopelessness and desperation, by a system that thrives on injustice and inequality.

Modern day debt-slavery.

I am currently on the hairy verge of homelessness, having been wrongfully terminated the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. I have noted on other OPs that my new manager was likely acting on instructions from my former manager, who was unhappy with my anti-racism and his "suspicion" that I'm a (gasp, shudder!) Democrat.

I have applied for unemployment, but do not know yet whether the company I worked for will deny my benefits. I have applied for food stamps, and that has been delayed because they lost my verification that I no longer have an account at my old bank. I asked for assistance through the local "free" dental clinic, so the bad tooth that's causing extreme pain will get yanked out tonight, thank goodness.

Having to get public assistance is both embarrassing and labor intensive. I don't think those who are well off can comprehend how much time one must wait in long lines just to apply for help. I can understand how an uneducated person might struggle to get the help I'm hoping to get, what with all the complicated paperwork and extensive running around one has to do just to access these resources (and, I am BEYOND thankful that I have a car--albeit twelve years old and in need of tires/brakes).

I am preparing to sell some of my craft resources, which sucks, since I had hoped to supplement my meager salary with income from my art. I do have two commissions I received from a client through my former employer, and that will pay for dog food, shampoo, dish soap and deodorant for the coming three months.

I keep telling myself that I am in better shape than most poor souls, but it doesn't help me sleep at night. I again have insomnia, worrying about whether I will be on the streets in a few weeks. Scary, frustrating, overwhelming...there just aren't enough words to describe how difficult life is these days for a growing number of US citizens.

Oh, and did I mention that I have an MS? Turns out, that fact alone keeps most schools from considering me for a teaching position, since they'd have to pay me upwards of 6-8 thousand more per contract than they'd pay a young person straight out of college. The irony is rich, indeed...

I won't offer advice (that's always irritating), but I really do hope things get better. If nothing else take my story as some hope that there can be ways out with help from others.

Like being sucked into a black hole. No one who has not been there can possibly understand.

Which was pretty much exactly what it felt like I was going through...

but have seen the signs, heard the stories and believe the people telling them.

Not all of us have to have been sucked in to empathize with those that have or are arrogant enough to not see that it may be our future as well.

closed because of a bounced check. He'd lost his job (the details don't matter at this point) and lived off his savings until they ran out, he bounced a rent check and was going to be evicted when we (his family) learned of this. Long story short, we had him come live with one sibling for about a year, then with another one, me. I got him to apply for a seasonal job at a big box store where he still works, doing overnight stocking. But he couldn't open a checking account because of that closure, and for the first few months I'd cash his check through my account, until my bank told me they wouldn't do it any more.

His big box store has a branch of a local bank inside, so I suggested he go talk to them about this and they were willing to open an account for him. So in this case, because of those very specific circumstances, he was able to get back on the grid.

He was lucky in that once his siblings found out what was going on, we were willing and able to pitch in to help him out, financially and otherwise. Not everyone is so lucky.

Closing an account for adverse reasons is bad enough, but what's far worse is being unable to open a new one.

In a slightly related matter, about twenty years ago my husband was an IT guy at a company, and they were switching over to direct deposit. Several employees actually quit because they did not want to have to open a checking account, and at least one person was hiding his income from an ex-wife. The others, from what my husband said, simply didn't want to be that involved in "the system". Which I thought was weird. Eventually those people will have to get a checking account somewhere, because Social Security only does direct deposit.