how these posts discussing the torture report keep sinking. I'm going to kick this up, because you cannot bury a crime of this magnitude.

Now it's more important to discuss sweater wearing sheep, or at least that is what keeps getting bumped.

Bump anything but inconvenient discussions.

This is the first time I can remember that I have been physically ill when reading the news.

Among all the depraved shit in this report, there is one thing that is really eating at me worse than the others

The report found that at least 26 detainees “were wrongfully held,” including an “intellectually challenged” man who was used as “leverage” to obtain information from a family member

The last time I saw anything this sick was when a couple of cops attacked a janitor and anally raped him with a plunger. I think they punched holes in his intestines. They were called the plunger cops. It was one of the few times when I wished I didn't have such a vivid imagination.

The CIA report is even more nightmarish than Susan Atkin's description of what happened in the Tate house.

and wouldn't have guessed the topic was sinking. From this perspective, it's pervasive...and rightfully so.

because most of us have known about this for years, and many don't really expect much to happen.
But you make a decent point. Worth kicking.

and this is worth being a part of our national conscience - we need to make sure that this NEVER happens again.

what happened. THis is what they were willing to share with us. What is in the report that they never want to see the light
of day? That is what is truly terrifying. I think most Americans prefer the blue pill. They like their happy illusions and
want to continue to worry about minutia instead of heinous cries that they have no power to fix or erase.

We knew ENOUGH. We knew enough to put people in jail. We knew enough to impeach Bush and Cheney. We knew ENOUGH. All of these added details are superfluous. We knew ENOUGH. And no one did anything.

She was in violation of her oath of office when she chose to not make sure those responsible, starting with Bush, paid for their crimes.

The Bush administration committed war crimes. Everybody in that administration who issued orders for /insert bullshit euphemism for torture here/ needs to be tried in an international court of law, and, if convicted, punished accordingly.

That's all that needs to be said.

I haven't seen you around before. Are you new here?

Yes, I've been here less than 13 years.

I've been here less than 13 years, too.

As early as 2005, the Red Cross had documented the murders of prisoners who had been tortured to death, various acts of monstrous sadism and terrorism that went far beyond waterboarding (as if that were not treasonous enough).

acknowledging that torture happened has a little more gravitas than random sources.

I'm curious as to where all of the people that denied torture happened because the reports didn't come from reputable sources are hiding. I mean surely, after so many defenses, so many denials, surely the must be keen to admit they were full of it.

Anyone?

It's the organization that verifies compliance with the Geneva Convention. And it's been officially documenting the torture and murder since the middle of the Bush regime.

As for deniers, they don't rate attention. They're just sniveling liars, and that's been obvious from the beginning.

But around 2005 - 07, you couldn't bring up torture without some apologista shrieking that there was no evidence, none of it was credible, the government didn't admit to it, and "why are we talking about something that isn't happening anyway?"

I'm sorry, I forgot "Waterboarding isn't torture."

The lies, excuses and justifications for this were just as horrible then as they are now. And it turns out that what many of us have long suspected was far worse than we ever imagined. "Rectal feeding"?

I can't fucking imagine how horrible it was to a person to undergo that, and I also fear for the soul of the person that carried such an atrocity out.

Shocked. Shocked I tell you...

What a disgrace. It's just sickening.

where they find the sociopathic animals who will commit these "interrogations" ....

man's inhumanity...

People that delight in cruelty will do it cheaply, and some will do it for free as long as they are recognized as a "patriot".

were convinced that what they were doing was necessary... lesser evil than 9/11. And their actions were aided and abetted by the truly evil.

Understanding with the sociopaths were thinking is easy..... it's the normal everyday people who see themselves as moral that just floors me.

the distinction you are making. However I think that a person must be able to disassociate to an questionable degree--to be convinced that carrying out torture is "necessary" and therefore a lesser evil. Even if a person feels guilty and has regrets afterward, it takes a certain mental disconnect to rationalize it in the first place. Torture has no place in civilized society. To carry it out crosses a boundary that most sane people would not cross.

But I agree--what is "normal" includes behavior that many of us here would find immoral & unjustifiable.

What are they capable of at this point ?

that sociopaths live among us and can get into positions of power quite easily. These are people who don't care who they hurt or compromise in their quest to get what they want. They have no conscience.

Yes they are to be feared. Learn to look out for them. Get support if one enters your life.

As for the bigger picture, what we can do about eliminating the type in government, I don't have the answers. I wish I did. We have to hope that more people come to see the destruction they do. They must be exposed, and prosecuted for crimes. But they are very good at hiding their crimes or causing others to take the blame.

for advice in how to deal with Islamic extremists. Its long been known that torture, or, "moderate pressure," as the Israeli courts call it, is standard operating procedure in the Occupied Territories.

If they're ordered to by a perceived authority, most people will do this sort of thing.

altho the Milgram experiments are significant re. compliance with authority --it is still a milder form of punishment. You cannot carry out experiments that would duplicate the real situation of torture.

When the Milgram experiments were replicated with the participants having to physically administer the shock by holding the "learner's" arm --compliance dropped sharply. The 60% compliance rate seems to depend on physical distancing from the subject. There are other differences from the situation at US govt detention centers.

So I stick with my statement that most sane people would not personally carry out the types of extreme torture the government is saying now was done. It is not "normal" to be able to do this. Though I think with the militarization of the society we live in, acceptance for abusive behavior towards "the other" has increased.

Not doubting your word but I'd like to read teh study.

but this list on Wiki refers to them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

scroll down

I get journal access through the OU so I can probably find something from that.

pretty much sums up that there are no lengths they didn't go to in being monsters wearing human disguises.

Can't download the report at work - has that much really been blacked out?

is horrific enough. I'm not sure I *want* to see the portions that were blacked out.

who perpetrated the crimes, the order givers and the order perpetrators. and the vicitims. and locations.

makes me sick to my stomach, hopemountain. It's dirty and sad.

we must insure the information does not become so sensationalized (like horror films) that further heinous acts/crimes are treated with indifference or more callousness - such as what happens to medical personnel or trauma survivors who learn to shut off their response and thoughts.

Some of that's probably, well, summarizing, and some's probably just sitting on legitimately classified information, but even a tenth of those 5,500 restricted pages having more information like that is more than horrific enough.

...dammit, I wanna know exactly what they did to whom and for how long, even if it makes me puke and curse the gods.

who were detained in around 2005 0r 2006 at the ages of 6 and 8* (?) is included in those redacted pages?

*might have been 5 and 7

Firing squads, hanging, beheadings etc.. at least they come to an end. Torture of family and friends, mutilation, humiliation, techniques that leave no marks are worse they may never end even if you survive. Murder and torture are two sides of the same coin.

It appears we have embraced the cruel and unusual. A lot of thought went into this, the only outcome is utter revulsion.

Shameful! Horrendous!

But I doubt anyone will.

it will be some low level nobody, not the soul-sucking, shit sack inhabiting a human being that dreamed all of this up.

How can we put patriots on trial for war crimes? He had to have known this and he still called them patriots.

Of course, the first thing he did after being elected President of the United States, was STOP this type of thing.

But, you may not remember that.

Sickening.

is anyone going to say there aren't still some black sites?

Oh, wait...Obama wouldn't do anything like that. he's one of the good guys. Carry on...


I'm ashamed to be an American.

We are fighting for the very soul of our nation.

on trial. The world needs the disinfectant of truth no matter where it might lead.

rec

The military and private contractors were equally as vicious and deadly. Where is that report? Where are the prosecutions for war crimes? It's all so damned sickening and shameful.

and Guantanamo is still in business too

my disgustometer is getting overloaded.

I can't even describe how awful this is, in a long line of atrocities committed on behalf of this nation.

And now we are reaping what we have sown in the radicalized jihadists that seek to kill and destroy anything in their path.

Heart-sick. Ashamed, revolted, and heart-sick.

and recommended!

I believe we have some of the same type of people in the CIA doing the same type of experiments. It has been hinted of in just about every long term event in which the CIA has been involved.

Just as "war" provides an excellent testing ground for new weaponry, it does the same for torture.

I was thinking the exact same thing LiberalArkie!

we invade / occupy sovereign countries for their oil under false information , overthrow governments and install our corrupt leaders to do our bidding now this crap. It's no wonder so many people join in to do us harm.

How can we even face anyone from a foreign country until they do?

Thanks for flushing what little human rights credibility the US had left down the shitter, you arrogant fucks.

The whole administration is going to do nothing. They wont even identify the thugs who did this.

As a former veteran, god help anyone military or other wise captured by the Muslims now.

The torture on anyone from amerika in their hands will be exquisite in the future

If as american taxpayers we have legal standing to force a prosecution by bringing a case to the HCR court ? The full report likely has more than enough details for actipn to be taken. The hcr has prosecuted cases of african leaders with less evidence that this.

I saw Harry on TV this morning he was on his knees to the Chimp and Cheney in an exquisite performance of cowardice. Its amazing they even bothered with the report if they weren't going to do anything. It was kind of like Farting in the woods.

I'm sorry, but that to me is even more shocking than the torture. We can cut food stamps for children and people in poverty, and we can refuse to create a jobs bill to repair out creaky old infrastructure and put people to work. But by golly! No problem finding $7 bil cash for some sadists to think up torture tactics. And they call themselves "psychologists?" I would like to know the names of the "psychologists," who took this blood money. Are they any different than Judas Iscariot taking 30 pieces of silver to torture Jesus? More needs to be said about this.

Where did you see that number. I saw 81 million.

Which is 81 million too much of course. Your premise is valid nevertheless.

As I pointed out to my conservative friend, that seems to be an exceptionally pour value considering the number of psychopaths we have in prison that would show you how to do that depraved shit for free.

Thanks for adding the link to that one, Hissyspit.

That some CIA staff were moved to tears and "choked up" is a pretty tough thing to imagine. I doubt we'll ever learn just how horrific that torture actually was.

...of all the actionable intelligence that was lost simply because CIA scumbags wanted to beat the shit out of defenseless detainees. Actionable intelligence that could have been used to protect our nation and American service personnel overseas. But oh no....Bush's CIA had to act like incompetent Gestapo thugs.

Alone in his cell at Leavenworth Federal Prison.

I think they already shielded him from prosecution.....at least in this country.

I mean, really?

They had to say that he was uninvolved. If Bush is taken to court, he would roll over on everyone and everything. No one would have a defense if the former President is indicted. They all have to lie about his involvement.

I misunderstood your meaning at first. Please pardon my initial response.

The Bush people made up all the "good information" they wanted whenever it suited their purposes.
They had no use for true information.

The torture was intended to just torture.
These guys were considered bad guys so the administration wanted to have them tortured because they deserved it.

They enjoyed the idea that these guys were suffering at their whim.

You know that's what was really in their mind.

Forewarned, we now are.

Anyone expect Obama to have any of these murderers and rapists prosecuted?

He's more interested in his present golf game

It's even WORSE than what we thought we thought. Remember, what has been revealed is a summary of 1/10th of the report, not even considering all the redactions. The original report has some 6,000 pages. What we are allowed to know is but a mere spit in the wind. We know nothing.

And horribly sick. I feel sick.

I dislike the title of the Alternet issue (and the Mother Jones article). This is a serious issue. Enough with these lists. "7 Most Shocking Things" just sounds like clickbait. These are all shocking things. Some gravitas would be nice.

If it's still happening, why are they releasing info from ten years ago. Must be a distraction because nothing has changed.

Force-feeding is still happening (or was until recently) but that's via a tube in the mouth.

Besides, force feeding is torture.

And yet, the GOP (I'm calling you out Darrell Issa) are literally foaming at the mouth to impeach Obama over the Affordable Care Act because as we all know, Torture and providing Affordable Healthcare for millions of Americans are soooo similar....Oh wait...NO!! they're not similar at all!!

and the rest of their criminal co-conspirations will rot there.

These horrendous crimes can no longer be ignored.

to the perpetrators? It begs the question what kind of person would do this? and what are the aftereffects to the personality that would agree to do this?

This is the height of monstrosity, but then to defend this as hooey, to try and minimize acts of vile torture that were nonproductive and were known before and after to be felonies, it becomes unclear as to who the terrorist is.

And then I think about Jeremy Scahill, I think about HBO's VICE features on these wars, esp. regarding the extraordinary amounts of money we are funneling into mercenaries for profits in never ending war, for wars fought with paid for mercenaries who have absolutely NO allegiance to country, and we've got a recipe for wars to last til doomsday with no clear enemies, an enemy of thugs, murderers and exactly what seems to be brewing with ISIL....terrorism is a huge paycheck, just ask the psychologists who sold there souls, for what - I think the going price was $82 million on a few of them to drudge up these techniques?

Tax dollars hard at work.

IS, Al Qaeda et.al, would be lauded as freedom fighters and heroes.

As several have already said, reading about this makes me physically sick, it is so disgusting. That this was done "in our name" is so awful to contemplate I cannot comprehend it.

I don't want to be safer if the means to that safety is torture. I would live under quite a lot of risk and danger if it meant that people on my side didn't torture. When we know that torture *doesn't* make us safer, that in fact it puts us in more danger, well, that's just the dingleberry on top of a shit mountain, to put it crudely.