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applegrove

(118,008 posts)
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 06:36 PM Dec 2014

James Carville: Why do people vote against their interests?

James Carville: Why do people vote against their interests?

By James Carville at the Hill

http://thehill.com/opinion/james-carville/227350-james-carville-why-do-people-vote-against-their-interests

"SNIP.....................


During my time as a political strategist, one of the most vexing problems was figuring out why so many people vote against their perceived interests. Commentators like myself have spent countless hours speculating on why so many people vote against their perceived interests, staying up late talking about it in strategy meetings, on TV discussing what inspires voters — even writing about it in this publication.

A chief complaint of many Republicans is that Asian-Americans and Jews strongly support and vote for Democrats despite the affluent economic standing many have achieved. Similarly, Democratic strategists struggle to understand why 77 out the 100 poorest and most government-dependent counties in the United States voted for Mitt Romney in 2012.

But the people who consistently and overwhelmingly vote in large numbers against their interests are stock market investors.

I have no earthly idea why a stock market investor would vote Republican — all you have do is look at the numbers. The numbers are staggering, breathtaking and unimaginable. How anyone with even a penny in the market would vote for their interests and choose a Republican is unexplainable.




.....................SNIP"


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James Carville: Why do people vote against their interests? (Original Post) applegrove Dec 2014 OP
I'm sure AM hate radio and the Fux Propaganda Channel don't help things. Initech Dec 2014 #1
Exactly, MSM propaganda turns people against the self-interest Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #51
I thought Carville was saying... yallerdawg Dec 2014 #52
He is saying that... DISINGENUOSLY Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #53
Because ideology trumps personal interests every time. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2014 #2
And Emotion trumps Reason Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #54
Yes, yes it does. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2014 #55
Racism, propaganda and sheer fukkin' hifiguy Dec 2014 #3
umm he married someone who is against his interests (if u believe he actually has any interests) n msongs Dec 2014 #4
It's a mistake to think that only Republican voters do this. [n/t] Maedhros Dec 2014 #5
Easy: because they disagree with James Carville about what their interests are. Donald Ian Rankin Dec 2014 #6
You missed, this was not the point, he understands more than many do. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #9
will never understand it. spanone Dec 2014 #7
This is an issue which boggles my mind, I know of so very many who Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #8
They are pro life, but only through birth. Ruby the Liberal Dec 2014 #12
True, True, True, they string them along and they have not figured this out yet. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #17
Carville is talking about how the rich are voting against their own interests applegrove Dec 2014 #13
He is. 2naSalit Dec 2014 #56
See: Schaeffer, Francis (and the hijacking of the moral majority - circa 1978) Ruby the Liberal Dec 2014 #10
Weird; I just came across this family last night. The son probably has more to NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #43
I've known several union members who were solid rethuglicans. lpbk2713 Dec 2014 #11
I've known *lots* of union guys who were right-wingers. They made me sick. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #44
why a stock market investor would vote Republican 0rganism Dec 2014 #14
Racism or greed or both. JaneyVee Dec 2014 #15
Maybe if instead of 'strategy' meetings he lived among the people for a while, he sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #16
What do you know about whom he has lived among? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #18
He's married to a Republican and if ever did live among 'us', he clearly has sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #19
You prejudge everyone by whom they are married? I was also married to a republican Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #20
Anyone who is pre-occupied with 'strategizing' and 'calculating' and who thinks the sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #21
You know, some people just don't get the real world, some do. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #22
That's what I said, some people just don't get the real world. James Carville sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #23
Why are you so jealous of someone who has risen in the income ladder? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #24
It took you more than the usual one or two posts to get to that old talking point. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #25
Do you ever listen to Carville? That would be a good way to find how he stands on the issues. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #30
It bothers me Aerows Dec 2014 #28
Carville is the oldest of eight children, mother and father worked hard, Carville went to Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #31
Why would a Democrat fall in love with an ardent Republican? n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2014 #26
Because he's a good man, loves children, smart as hell, Seeking Serenity Dec 2014 #32
Heh, best wishes to you both! n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2014 #33
Thank you. And to you and yours as well. Seeking Serenity Dec 2014 #34
A better question is why does anyone listen to his wife? n/t Aerows Dec 2014 #27
I asked one of my friend's father that once. They were really poor and lived up the RKP5637 Dec 2014 #29
1) Affluent Asian Americans and Jews know Democrats actually manage the economy much better. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2014 #35
You just accused an extraordinarily large demographic of racism with 0 evidence. kioa Dec 2014 #37
There's plenty of evidence for what I actually said. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2014 #40
Oh? Like what? kioa Dec 2014 #46
Kioa, the little bus for the Gungeon just pulled up. Time to hop back on. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2014 #47
Using an unoriginal cliche while using developmentally impaired children as an insult. kioa Dec 2014 #48
Bye. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2014 #49
Are you sure? Such stunning wit was spectacular to behold kioa Dec 2014 #50
I think most voters vote for perceived national interest. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #36
This argument has been around for a long time and its been bunk since its inception kioa Dec 2014 #38
They consistently vote *for* their best interests. dawg Dec 2014 #39
They're brainwashed on Obama hate for one thing. Obamacare BAD ACA Good. Cha Dec 2014 #41
Just because people have money, that doesn't mean they have any sense, or that they are tblue37 Dec 2014 #42
People are easily led about by their noses. herding cats Dec 2014 #45

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
51. Exactly, MSM propaganda turns people against the self-interest
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 11:08 AM
Dec 2014
He is laughing in our collective face.

Carville is completely disingenuous.
He knows how "strategists" such as himself
deceive people, convince them to vote for politics
that are "against their interests"!

His job is to create platforms to appeal to people
who would not otherwise vote for his employer...
But he doesn't know why people vote "against their interests"!

He may be a "democratic" strategist,
but he's no friend of Democratic Voters.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
52. I thought Carville was saying...
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 11:22 AM
Dec 2014

if Wall Street wants a friend, vote for a Clinton! Or any Democrat, for that matter.

Don't fall for the Republican propaganda, Democrats love Wall Street. Look at the stock market! Look at the 2015 budget!

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
53. He is saying that... DISINGENUOSLY
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 11:31 AM
Dec 2014
I have no earthly idea why a stock market investor would vote Republican — all you have do is look at the numbers. The numbers are staggering, breathtaking and unimaginable. How anyone with even a penny in the market would vote for their interests and choose a Republican is unexplainable.


Except, it's not either or, it's BOTH....Good cop, Bad cop
Carville/Matalin Inc.

Republicans can't do it without 3rd-Wayers gutting the Social Safety Net.
The 3rd-Way is a Trojan Horse to kill from within while the
republicans attack from the outside.
The PUBLIC gets slaughtered.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
8. This is an issue which boggles my mind, I know of so very many who
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:13 PM
Dec 2014

are in the lower wage bracket and they tell me they vote for republicans because they are against abortion. They do not understand the republicans are hard against making sure the babies they want born has basic needs met such as food, clothing, shelter and education. I don't understand why they do not at least tell the republican party either you will do some things my way or they will vote for someone else. Then they become so brainwashed by FOX and the TP nothing sensible comes through.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,216 posts)
12. They are pro life, but only through birth.
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:20 PM
Dec 2014

After that, yer on yer own.

As I once told a relative, "They will NEVER outlaw abortion. Its the one issue they have to get you people to the polls every few years to re-elect them and solidify Wall Street's ownership of the government".

Didn't go over too well, but it is what it is.

applegrove

(118,008 posts)
13. Carville is talking about how the rich are voting against their own interests
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:21 PM
Dec 2014

because the stock markets roar under democratic Presidents.

2naSalit

(86,039 posts)
56. He is.
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 01:35 PM
Dec 2014

I have a couple ideas about the two parties with regard to the Wall St. power grab. I suspect that they only appear to be losing during R presidencies and creating recessions is what they are during those times, actually, relieving the taxpayers of built up reserves. When a D president gets into office, they clean up the recession and start building the treasury up again, once that mission is accomplished, they start all over again, a never ending story until the wealthy own everything.

As for the difference between the rich and poor ...

I see it as a two-tiered sort of voting structure.

The rich are now buying the government, though, so it would be them just voting for power and they seem to be willing to take a financial hit for that. Perhaps the only thing they would truly willingly pay for in the first place.

The poor who vote for Rs and whomever the less helpful candidates happen to be do so because - this is my speculation at least - in hard economic and socially uncertain times, emotions often rule people rather than rationale. When people feel uncertain and things are unstable all around, they go for what I call "the comfort food factor". This would be that clinging thing Obama spoke of long ago, but I think it's derived from the innate need for something comforting. For some it's food out of fear of food insecurity, others rely on religion but really don't know where to find appropriate guidance so turn on the TeeVee... and what do they find there? Someone who talks like they do but look important and sexy telling you why you should judge everything you see as they are showing you. Repetition works for the psyche in the "comfort realm". I am suggesting that this is one of the "hooks" employed in the Faux agenda, once they have established a sense of "comfort" (notice all the couches on the sets?) they are set to pump the misinformation into the information starved viewers/listeners, thus keeping them on edge with the constant fear mongering the never ending cycle of fear and comfort-seeking. Once this pattern - we've been watching this before our eyes for nearly two decades now - is established, those who are "followers" of the misinformation network will continually do as they are told by the box/screen in the living room when in the voting booth because they aren't able to research for themselves... which leaves them their emotions as their mainstay for consultation.

See how that works? That would be the model of how the rich control the poor in how they vote by devising a network of delusion that seems to be working well enough to set up the mess we now have. IMHO.

 

NewDeal_Dem

(1,049 posts)
43. Weird; I just came across this family last night. The son probably has more to
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:54 PM
Dec 2014

say about the family's Christian wingnuttery:

In 2007 Schaeffer published his autobiography, Crazy for God: How I Grew Up As One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back, in which he goes into much more detail regarding what it was like to grow up in the Schaeffer family and around L'Abri.

In 2011, he published another memoir, called Sex, Mom, and God, in which he discusses growing up with his parents and their role in the rise of the American religious right and argues that the root of the "insanity and corruption" of this force in U.S. politics, and specifically of the religious right's position on abortion, is a fear of female sexuality.[3]

The two memoirs form the first and third book of what Schaeffer calls his "God trilogy". The second one, Patience with God: Faith for People Who Don't Like Religion (or Atheism) (2010), describes his spirituality as it exists since abandoning conservative evangelicalism. The first half contains critiques of both the New Atheists and of Christian fundamentalism


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Schaeffer

0rganism

(23,855 posts)
14. why a stock market investor would vote Republican
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:38 PM
Dec 2014

Carville makes a poor assumption here, that investors have a vested interest in overall bullish stock market performance. Investors who prioritize the market and are paying attention, not just us schlubs who buy into mutual funds for retirement, can make just as much -- if not more -- money by shrewd short-selling on a loser as they would by holding a stock for long-term profits. Thus, their interests are best represented by the party that stands for lower taxes (to keep more of their insane profits) and maximum deregulation (to open up more opportunities to swing a quick buck). That'd be the Republicans.

Those of us who don't pay close attention and are basically just in it for our 401K's are going to prioritize other issues. People who play the market want their gambling to be uninhibited, free of pesky overseers, and with as much funding from the general public as possible. Thus the (very successful) Republican drive to privatize retirement benefits.

Having the market do better under Democrats would mainly be a pull for people who are employed or hope to be employed by companies that are traded publicly, but for most of us employment numbers will be a better selling point during a campaign than market indexes. Also retirees and people close to retirement who have started watching their 401K's. However, older people tend to be more conservative and apparently have issues which trump their own retirement solvency.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
16. Maybe if instead of 'strategy' meetings he lived among the people for a while, he
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 07:45 PM
Dec 2014

would learn that the Stock Market SOARING has zero to do with their lives.

He seems hurt almost, that since the Third Way decided to make the Dem Party the Party of Wall St and the Stock Market, they still don't like them.

It doesn't take 'strategy' meetings to attract voters, it takes CARING about the people's interests rather than top 1%. Clearly voters are not getting the message that THEY are of great concern to their elected officials.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
18. What do you know about whom he has lived among?
Wed Dec 17, 2014, 10:07 PM
Dec 2014

Think you are mistaken, he has lived among "us", knows how the poor folks live.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
19. He's married to a Republican and if ever did live among 'us', he clearly has
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:28 AM
Dec 2014

forgotten that phase of his life. Mixing with the top 1% and getting used to their 'way of live' seems to have a corrupting effect on some people.

I wonder how long it has been since he 'lived among us'? I worked among 'them' for a while, and it's easy to see how tempting all that comfortable living can be and how unattractive ordinary lives become. And it's often worse with those who once were among us. They almost seem scared to look back. Not everyone of course.

His preoccupation with insider 'strategizing' and the Stock Market, says to me he is far, far from being among the people.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
20. You prejudge everyone by whom they are married? I was also married to a republican
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:33 AM
Dec 2014

but I did not allow republican thoughts to overrule my thoughts on issues. Sometimes you should check to see how people have lived before jumping out with your accusation. I am sure you have watched James Carville and his wife on shows, this should convince you he is not republican, just sometimes you can talk to and live among republicans comfortably and continue to be myself.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
21. Anyone who is pre-occupied with 'strategizing' and 'calculating' and who thinks the
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:49 AM
Dec 2014

Stock Market is all there is, isn't living in the real world.

Voters don't 'strategize', they vote for those they believe will represent their interests.

Politicians who actuall look to the people to find out what they need and want, tend to win.

This isn't a game, which it appears to be many of these DC insiders.

I don't even know what they mean by 'winning'.

People's lives are on the line and all these people do from their mansions is act as if the people are simply window dressing in their political games.

We don't need them, we need strong leaders who don't need them, who can think for themselves, who are in touch with ordinary people.

None of these strategists would even know HOW to talk an ordinary person on the same level. They look down on them. They BLAME them when their brilliant strategies don't work in their favor.

We need to get rid of all these think tanks and strategists and let the people have a direct line to those who are supposed to represent them.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
22. You know, some people just don't get the real world, some do.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:55 AM
Dec 2014

James Carville is a strategist, he does his role very well, will he conform to your thought, only if he believes the same on your issues, will you conform to his thoughts, don't know but why trash someone who does not perhaps believe the same as you do on all issues?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
23. That's what I said, some people just don't get the real world. James Carville
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:05 AM
Dec 2014

is a millionaire, of course he would never be able to relate to me. I know that. That is the problem.

Why are you asking ME not to point out how wrong he and his DC cocktail party buddies are about what is right for the American people?

Why are you not asking HIM what he knows about the American people, because I've listened to him and have never heard him talk about the people, he talks about political game playing.

That's fine if that's his hobby, but it has nothing to do with the people of this country who are suffering as a result of all these political game players.

I don't have to 'understand' them. No one is paying me to excuse or protect them. Why do we need these people? Who are they working for?

We need strong leaders who do not need to be told by people who don't seem to be in any way connected to the people, what they should do in order to 'win'.

Good leaders speak for themselves. They don't need political strategists telling 'no, don't do that for the people because if you do, this will happen'.

If something is right for the people, do it. The people will reward that.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
24. Why are you so jealous of someone who has risen in the income ladder?
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:49 AM
Dec 2014

I do not understand why so many work to do better, and when they do others are mad at them.
We should be happy for others. James Carville did not live with a silver spoon in his mouth, he still cares about Democrat issues, you should be happy for him, I am.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
25. It took you more than the usual one or two posts to get to that old talking point.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:02 AM
Dec 2014

I wouldn't trade places with Carville if you gave me ten million.

What about Carville would inspire anyone to be jealous?

I have been in positions where I was offered huge amounts of money. I turned them down as it would have involved giving up doing what good I could do and no amount of money is worth that.

Why do you not understand that money isn't everything?

And what does 'work to do better' mean? Do you mean by making millions? What is BETTER about earning millions for YOURSELF, if that's all it's for?

I wonder if people who value money above everything else, have ever experienced the joy of doing something truly worth while, for society?

What has Carville done for anyone but himself? Where does he stand on issues?

I am very happy with the life I chose and glad I never was tempted by money alone.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
30. Do you ever listen to Carville? That would be a good way to find how he stands on the issues.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:06 AM
Dec 2014

He was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth for sure, and your accusations are baseless, he is another who has made it up the income level, this indicates your are not for the lower income folks at all, Democrats promote the very best for our other Democrats.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
28. It bothers me
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:31 AM
Dec 2014

when I see people skidding down the slippery slope, with absolutely NO idea they are on a very steep hill.

I want to reach out and stop them, but sometimes, they are so smug and certain that they have great skis, you just have to watch it play out.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
31. Carville is the oldest of eight children, mother and father worked hard, Carville went to
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:10 AM
Dec 2014

law school and is self made, I am happy to see someone work hard to achieve in life. I don't understand why others has to trash them.

Seeking Serenity

(2,838 posts)
32. Because he's a good man, loves children, smart as hell,
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:26 AM
Dec 2014

stimulates me emotionally and intellectually,





and, after all these years, is still sexy as hell.

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
29. I asked one of my friend's father that once. They were really poor and lived up the
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:29 AM
Dec 2014

street, his son was one of my best friends growing up. His father was a strong republican and dirt poor. His father's response was, the republicans know how to make money and they will do the same for me.

As a little kid I was stunned by that remark. My father was a strong democratic politician and quite well off. It just made no sense to me. I kept my mouth shut and just said, Oh!

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,780 posts)
35. 1) Affluent Asian Americans and Jews know Democrats actually manage the economy much better.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:18 PM
Dec 2014

2) Poor white people are in desperate denial that they might share interests with poor minorities. There's a great LBJ quote on that that's been run on DU numerous times but it escapes me at the moment.

 

kioa

(295 posts)
37. You just accused an extraordinarily large demographic of racism with 0 evidence.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:38 PM
Dec 2014

Such broad-brush & factless accusations are bigoted and/or intellectually lazy.

 

kioa

(295 posts)
46. Oh? Like what?
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:32 AM
Dec 2014

Just a reminder of your TOTALLY BACKED BY EVIDENCE statement

Poor white people are in desperate denial that they might share interests with poor minorities


When you provide your 'evidence' be sure to include any negative statement concerning 'poor blacks/Native American/whatever' that you wouldn't consider a painfully bigoted & ignorant statement.

 

kioa

(295 posts)
48. Using an unoriginal cliche while using developmentally impaired children as an insult.
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 10:25 AM
Dec 2014

Quite the accomplishment.

Please, proceed.

 

kioa

(295 posts)
50. Are you sure? Such stunning wit was spectacular to behold
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 10:58 AM
Dec 2014

I'm certain a person with your level of intelligence can find a myriad of manners to display your vast intellect and blinding brilliance by mocking handicapped children.

I await with bated breath your next utterance.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
36. I think most voters vote for perceived national interest.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:30 PM
Dec 2014

Many of the 99% buy into the idea that voting for "goodies for me" is a bad thing. They never quite get the idea that 99% of the public would benefit too.

I think that those who are against a raise in the minimum wage have actually been convinced that it would depress employment, when the opposite has been proven to be true.

 

kioa

(295 posts)
38. This argument has been around for a long time and its been bunk since its inception
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:42 PM
Dec 2014

The arrogance necessary to decide that one person knows what the 'best interests' are of someone else is mind-boggling.

Offer the electorate their 'best interests' & they will give their vote.

Acting like a jilted teenager whose crush asked someone else to the big dance is cringe-worthy.

dawg

(10,607 posts)
39. They consistently vote *for* their best interests.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:47 PM
Dec 2014

It's just that they are dumb as a bag of hammers and believe the bullshit they hear on tv and the radio (and sometimes from the pulpit).

It is elitist of me to say so? Yes, of course it is. Doesn't make it wrong.

tblue37

(64,979 posts)
42. Just because people have money, that doesn't mean they have any sense, or that they are
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:48 PM
Dec 2014

able to see past their prejudices. And when those prejudices are being incessantly stoked by a powerful and well-funded RW media empire, blasting propaganda 24/7, then they are just as unlikely to even recognize what their own interests are as are so many of the working poor.

herding cats

(19,549 posts)
45. People are easily led about by their noses.
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:00 AM
Dec 2014

Find an emotional topic and exploit it to the proper demographic and you own them for life. Even if it doesn't apply to them directly, you'll be able to find someone who can reach their peer group who can twist it about to make it sound as if it does. After that the herd is yours.

In this case, the investors are tools of the corporations who want the Republicans in office. They read the publications which are beholden to the corporations and believe what they read because it's what their peer group has told them they're supposed to do. Being the good little tools they are they do as they've been taught to do without question, collectively speaking, of course.

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