You can feel this city go into seperate camps wherever you go now.

Nor will he be the last.

That didn't take long.

It's disgusting!

Seriously makes me want to just say F#+k it all, I quit.

A guy can shoot up a conciliate and a bunch of government building, het his act isn't "fueled by hate" even though he is clearly influenced by RW hate radio and TV.

A guy can fly his plane into an IRS building yet no one calls out the RW anti-IRS nut jobs on the radio and tv.

Funny how that works.

Don't give into these haters. Have a spine. They are immature self-entitled nit wits who whine when they don't get their way. It's a tragedy what happened but blaming protestors is beyond the pale. These are the same people who went out of their way to defend one if their own murdering an unarmed civilian.

a lot of people will BELIEVE anything.

it's that they will believe anything they want to. Screw the facts I like the taste.

screw the facts I like the taste. LOL. Grrrr.

Rightie Tighties are the biggest liars and violence-mongers going.

They couldn't care less about the cops gunned down in Las Vegas by the sovereign/Teabagger nutjobs, but THIS death is different. This was a PROTESTING POLITICAL lunatic, apparently.

This is all just smoke and mirrors anyway from the Gov to the NYPD. As long as they can wail and play the victims, people won't call them to account for their violence and corruption.

I've seen the same attitude from child abusers: deflect the blame anywhere but on them.

it's not all the dead black people littering the streets that is the problem, it is the protests. gotcha.

I knew something like this was inevitable, but not because of the protests, because of the effing police brutality that has gone on for far too long.

Nobody is talking about his other victim nor the fact that he was still able to get his hands on weapons and ammo in the first damned place.

Ugh.

ps: Every word Mr. Pitt wrote is true.

and anyone standing in their way "has blood on their hands".

dont fucking wake up and act like adults.

Guns are at the heart of all of this, then that fucking blue line where a cop can do anything at all and get away with it.

in the RW(or a lot of the center) wants to face.

Last edited Sun Dec 21, 2014, 03:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Joseph Welch vs. Sen. Joseph McCarthy (1954)- Part 1 of 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Po5GlFba5Yg

Joseph Welch vs. Sen. Joseph McCarthy (1954)- Part 2 of 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PTwDUpbQHJg

ETA: In re-watching both of these videos, I am again struck by how appropriate your reference to theme was and by how tone deaf McCarthy appears, as he doubles- and then triples down on his original character assassination.

Thanks for reminding me why I hate fucking Republicans.

Is the "have you no decency" scene. I have been thinking about that movie a great deal with all that is going on.

The PTB have been exploiting every tragedy to their own advantage for years. Thirteen years later and they're still committing atrocities in the name of 9-11. Of course, they're going to twist this one too.

It was a whacked out guy who was pretty delusional. To try to apply rational motivation to it is just crazy itself. But the Foxies will slurp it up.

a gun related tragedy? We know whenever a politician speaks, it's to politicize something.

Whenever I write about Newtown or gun control or excessive gun violence, the deluge commences.

a right wing love affair with guns and violence.

It is an insidious disease with many symptoms.

dehumanizing ALL law enforcement. Grouping all law enforcement into the same category "evil" may result in killing. It is ironic that this post is advocating for focusing on an individual killer rather than coupling him will all protestors, while doing the very same thing he advocates against "they will say anything--"

I do recall lots of posts regarding horrific rhetoric against Obama by right wing radicals and how that constant dehumanization of Obama could lead to murder. Those posters on DU were correct. It is the same thing in this instance.

Whether this guy did send the tweet "2 for 1." Is irrelevant--in this instance what the reasons for the murders was, It is only a matter of time.

The anger should be focused on institutional change, or anger at the individuals. Stop dehumanizing all law enforcement. It may result in violence.

I've not seen that. I've seen a lot of posts asking where all the "good" cops are and wondering why they aren't stopping the "bad" cops from killing unarmed civilians. I've seen many posts lamenting the militarization of the police forces. I've seen many posts expressing frustration and anger that cops seem to be above the law when their actions lead to someone's death (i.e. a cop chokes a man to death on camera and doesn't even have to stand trial).

What is particularly irritating in this instance is that there is no evidence that this guy was affiliated in any way with protesters but all the talking heads on TV seem to be jumping on the chance to tie them together. They did not do that when the cops were gunned down in Vegas by right-wing nutjobs, they didn't do it when the right-wing loon shot up the government building in Austin, and they did not do it when the right-wing loon flew his plane into the IRS building.

You just lumped "ALL" of DU as "dehumanizing ALL" cops while trying to lecture about individualism. Oh the irony...

as they continue to let bad cops "retire" or "resign" then I will still have no respect for them.

And you rip what you sew.

In each case of an unarmed, murdered civilian, the victim has been accused by cops of writing their own death sentence. No one is ever responsible except the victim, cops do no wrong. While here the murderer is known and now, unarmed, unknown, completely innocent, hundreds of thousands of people trying to change the fact that cops have no responsibility and face no consequences for their actions, are blamed.

To blame the protesters and protests for the death of these two, murdered cops, makes as much sense as blaming the cops and the system for not holding cops responsible for their actions.

Your argument plays into the hands of the oligarchy and is senseless.

... I'm sure they made sure to hire as many racist, bigoted cops as they could.

tried to stop this jerk from beating up the teen. I'm sorry, but I have NO respect for police who behave worse than criminals. And, I have LESS respect for the alleged "good" cops who turn a blind eye to it.

Indeed.

I don't understand how "good" cops can not jump all over "bad" cops.... they make every cop's life more difficult and put all of them in danger. But we get this camaraderie, fraternal baloney instead.

Your pontifications are pointless and absurd. There is a trend of police oppression in this country fueled by the drug war. Millions of families have been affected since the 80s. So many have died. There is no way in Hell that gangster reads DU. He was going to kill himself anyway and because cops have been in the news killing innocents he decided to go out that way. I'm surprised the police are following their union boss and not angered at the fellow cops who made this an issue to begin with. Reporting on something isn't what causes the problem. It's the original problem reported on. The same bullshit argument was used to suppress the torture report. It was the torture that was to blame not the reporting of it. The guy who did this is deservedly dead. Blaming the mayor who worries about his kid is messed up.

The war-on-drugs has not fueled police oppression. The war on drugs filled our prisons and our drug treatment centers. Your thesis and conclusions are nearly baseless.

The "bullshit argument" has been used on DU, and rightly so, when the republicans dehumanize Obama, and sometimes openly suggest that he should be killed.

Many on DU (I suspect we have a team of anarchists) have dehumanized ALL police and suggested that they should be killed. That talk is irresponsible and signals to crazy dangerous people.

Peaceful protests, calls for change, sympathy for those killed, are different than violence, and calls for retaliation.

I don't know who you are but you don't know what you're talking about. There is no anarchist clique on DU advocating violence against the police. People are polite as can be here. Try reading some comments on mainstream conservative sites like Politico where it's common hourly to see threats of murder and violence like it's nothing. I've never seen one comment like that here. And I really stopped listening to you when you said the War On Drugs hasn't contributed to police oppressing people. It's the single biggest factor that has hands down. Have you read the Washington Post series about the police becoming nothing more than highway robbers looking to steal cash from motorists? You cannot drive across the country these days with out of state plates without being pulled over and searched, sometimes violently, looking fur drugs and more so money and it doesn't matter what color you are. They are targeting everybody. Get out of your bubble and check out the "real world".

While bad police make up a very small part of the police forces, many if not the majority of officers will side with and cover for the bad cops over citizens.

and then back to work. A citizen kills a cop the citizen gets blown away in the street, Plus it is hard to kill a cop with all the bullet resistant gear they have on. Plus the cop is paid to be out on the streets protecting the citizens from other citizens who would want to hurt them.

There is a coming battle between the police and the citizens. The police unions are going to make it happen one way or the other. And since when did black panther type organizations start killing black people(cops)?

People must be united to fight this kind of intimidation. The media is the biggest culprit...and FOX is at the center. It saddens me to no end that the police and their RW anti-everything Obama frenzied supporters will try to link anything and everything to anyone they deem even remotely supporting this President. Recently a state trooper and two cops in a restaurant were killed by whites with a manhunt for one that went on many days. Yet there was not the this inflamed talk from the police or police union as is seen over this evil shooting. Anytime a cop gets killed now it will be blamed on the NY Mayor, the AG, the President for daring to speak the truth about police lawlessness and brutality. It can only be countered by a forceful, united citizenry that refuses to live in fear of recrimination. i hope we are up to it.

Politicizing the tragedy?

gets things done true leader no... he's basically the only ruler their version of congress are puppets ie like Bush had it. but even more so. Rudy is the biggest disappointment of the century... and last century. he wasn't bad until 2001 came and he turned it political

Projection of their 60's mantra against the Commies.

K & R

where are the words of condemnation for the cops who killed eric garner. absolute hypocrisy.

who are armed, with a radio to call for backup etc, than it is to kill a small child who is defenseless. But over and over again the penalty for killing a cop is much worse than killing an unarmed woman or child.

. . . a couple of years ago at a family function. Was not a pleasant experience!

Last edited Sun Dec 21, 2014, 03:05 PM - Edit history (1)

It's ok if you are Republican.

Play this political football card and you are condemned for politicizing their victimhood.

It's a fucking art form for them.

1,000,000 civilian deaths (in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries in the Middle East) after 9-11 and they're still waving that bloody shirt.

And the cops were forewarned:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/exclusive-nypd-warned-militant-group-plans-shoot-cops-article-1.2036616?cid=bitly

NEW YORK - A tattooed gang of militants declared open season on the NYPD in the wake of the Eric Garner grand jury decision, according to a
threat a police union verified Saturday.

Ten Black Guerrilla Family members are “preparing to shoot on duty
police officers,” Sergeants Benevolent Association President Ed Mullins
said.

The gang, formed in the 1960s in the California prison system, recently
surfaced on the East Coast and Maryland, where members are at the heart of a drug-trafficking and corruption probe within the Baltimore prison
system.


Edited to add: Slate has a great article on this group:

How a Gang Called the Black Guerrilla Family Took Over Baltimore’s Jails
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/04/24/black_guerilla_family_how_a_gang_took_over_baltimore_s_jails.html
Members swear allegiance for life and sport “BGF” tattoos, as well as
ink depicting a dragon surrounding a prison tower, according to
gangs.org.

An undercover NYPD cop learned of the hit put out on officers Friday
evening — three days after a Staten Island grand jury decided not to
indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo in Garner’s death. Mullins confirmed late
Saturday night that the gang was gunning for officers.

Union leaders ordered all officers, on duty and off, to take extra precautions.

“Please WEAR your VESTS and carry your firearm off-duty along with
additional magazines,” Mullins said in an alert. “Your priority is to go
home at the end of your tour!”

Was the shooter part of this?

Presently we do now have that evidence.

Yes, completely nauseating.

It's as American and baseball and apple pie.

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.

Rahm Emanuel

Politicizing everything to their benefit is the raison d'etre of all politicians, regardless of their politics. It's just that we tend to excuse it or turn a blind eye when the particular politician happens to be advocating for a positions we support.

I just don't like hypocrisy. I was an unsurprised by right wing blame of Eric Holder or Bill deBlasio for the NYC police shootings as I was when a great many on our side blamed Sarah Palin and the Tea Part for the Gabby Giffords shooting, or when the NRA and Wayne LaPierre were blamed for Sandy Hook, and then used to promote gun control laws that would never have stopped the tragedy.

Rahm Emanuel was not stating some new political strategy. He was simply acknowledging a political reality that has existed since the dawn of civilization.

Yes the left and our Democratic politicians are quick to politicize issues and events, but the difference can be seen by comparing MSNBC and Fox News. MSNBC spins, while Fox News intentionally lies and edits video to make the left seem irrational, men and ugly. One reason the left is less successful than the right is that the left is generally loath to fight dirty.

As for your criticism of the left for blaming the NRA and LaPierre for Sandy Hook, etc. I can't let that slide. The NRA absolutely shares much of the blame for events like Sandy Hook. Gun control groups support a wide variety of changes to the law, and some might very well prevent future Sandy Hooks.

The only people responsible for the referenced shootings are the shooters themselves. Attaching blame to your political opponents because they are obstacles to your goals, is either acceptable or it not. Other than hypocrisy, the calculus doesn't change depending on your politics or belief in the nobility of your cause.

Although I have no desire to derail the thread with a gun control issue that I just used as an obvious example, you're defending attaching blame to the NRA for Sandy Hook because they fight against gun control positions you support. If such logic is acceptable, why can't the police unions blame deBlasio and Holder for proposing or enforcing policies they believe are socially, and in this case personally and lethally, detrimental? The only person responsible for Sandy Hook is Adam Lanza, just like the only person responsible for yesterdays NYDP shooting is the shooter himself.

Politics ain't beanbag. I expect out side to use all lawful means to enact policies we support, and similarly expect the opposition to do the same. It's certainly fair and appropriate to criticize Republicans when the try to benefit from a tragedy (and I know that we will be criticized when we inevitably do so), but I will hardly clutch my pearls and faint when partisans engage in political hardball.

Actually, Liberals are the ones to come up with actual SOLUTIONS. Like after 9/11 we were the ones that said cockpit doors should be stronger. The Right fought against that and suggested putting on "good guys with a gun" (Air marshals). It would be interesting to see what the Right's "solution" was for the Triangle Shirt Fire. No doubt they screamed over the cost of fire escapes and sprinkler systems.

Last edited Mon Dec 22, 2014, 12:47 AM - Edit history (1)

As a basic premise, I assume that since we are both Democrats, that we mostly agree on policy. That is besides the point.

Just because we believe our policies are the wisest and most effective, does not change the fact that we will and have used tragedies to accomplish political goals that might otherwise have been unobtainable, just like the Republicans. The end result does not change the politicization of the tragedy.

My point was certainly not to defend the union or Republican statements, nor imply that they should not be criticized on the merits. However, the apparent shock and surprise expressed by many here that they would use the shooting to advance their own interests is foolish, disingenuous or hypocritical. Politics is hardball.

Last edited Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:47 AM - Edit history (1)

However, that is a totally different discussion . . .

Limbaugh raised hell saying it would cost too much money for the airlines. At the time the cost would have been around $300 per door. IIRC.

Manufactured in some Red State.

Yup.

The only thing that surprises me is that they took as long as they did to blame President Obama and everyone else they're bashing now.

is driven by corruption whether you want to believe it or not just by reading and listening to the different type of responses from the police community emphasizes that belief.

The only perfection we have in our perception is math. Equate it and it will have been or will come.

So really I wouldn't wax to much over a few posters here that foam at the mouth when you make an OP. At best, their numbers are getting smaller and smaller here on DU. At worst, they call you all the same stupid crap as when you were posting on DU2.

Same group, same fake outrage de jour. As for what you get in your email, I can only guess at. Probably looks like a yahoo comment page.

What does this have to do with 2 New York Cops?

if you applied it to him then it's fine if it's applied to you, or not?