... care because it won't be their kids getting shot.

They HOPE, anyway.

Legislators in Colorado passed relatively moderate gun control laws and they were targeted by the GUN NUTS and recalled from office. I don't have any hope what so ever that rational gun laws will ever be passed in my life time. If any politician attempts to provide even a one iota of sane restrictions they immediately come under intense assault by the NRA idiots. The Free Press, the supposed protector of providing the citizens with facts, cowers in silence tacitly becoming accomplices in the slaughter.

If a disease were taking that many people, we'd be all over it. But because it's guns, we're like "meh, just another day of American exceptionalism."

Seriously, the CDC is not even allowed to track these numbers. Because guns.

Correct answer to your statement

'Seriously, the CDC is not even allowed to track these numbers. Because guns.'

They even cannot be trusted nor counted on for anything

...I mean, if you really want to contort a tragedy into a way to score
some cheap political shots.

"I do not accept the fact that I have been weak on this issue. In fact, I have been strong on this issue," Sanders said. "And in fact, coming from a rural state which has almost no gun control, I think I can get beyond the noise and all of these arguments and people shouting at each other, and come up with real, constructive gun control legislation which most significantly gets guns out of the hands of people who should not have them."

He said he voted for a semi-automatic gun ban, for instant background checks on gun buyers and to end a loophole that allows below-the-radar purchases at gun shows.

Sanders also said he can get "beyond the noise" of the debate of restricting guns versus Second Amendment rights because he hails from a rural state with minimal gun restrictions."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/30/politics/bernie-sanders-gun-control-2016/

Suffice it to say, his record is out there, and it speaks for itself for all to make of it what they will.

It probably can't be both.

================================

I blame it on a long tiring day.

I suppose that just because something "speaks for itself" doesn't
mean people will take it at its word.

Can we stop the sniping at one another — for a day or two, at least — and grieve together? You know, the way we used to do?

Stop the baiting, and stop taking the bait.

Jesus H.

dead Americans plus untold wounded. When it comes to death by guns or bombs, Hillary doesn't seem to mind too much.

Terrified by a gunman and then again by the cops.
'Safety' and all that...

These senseless deaths are heartbreaking.

I can't help but think that our Founding Fathers, the very ones who drew up the 2nd Amendment, would say the nation has gone mad if they saw these totals.

Do you know how many Americans were killed by guns in the Boston Massacre? 5.

. . . the incredible and outrageous mass modern misunderstanding of the actual meaning of the 2nd amendment that was written in the style of 18th-century English. Any true Constitutional scholar will tell you that it refers only to allowing the establishment of state militias to protect the citizens from local dangers or help in local emergencies. Even I learned that in high school (when civics was still taught) over 50 years ago, back when public mass shootings were practically unknown.

They never could have imagined such power being used against any citizen of the US. This is madness and it isn't going to settle down until those mega-killers are off the street. Hunting or target practice is one thing, but no one needs these killer machines or access to buying them.

Stop shutting down centers for mental illness. A Republican shut them down and we've been paying for it ever since.

. . . at least 87,423 gun-related deaths since Sandy Hook can be placed at the hands of the radical Republican Party who has refused to do anything about gun control. The GOP has far outstripped terrorism as a direct danger to our nation.

Republicans are terrorists in the USA. Actually, world-wide: just ask Iraq.

So it's something else when gun violence kills about 500,000 in the USA since 9-11 and no one does a thing about it.

Could it be that FEAR is a political tool?

Because

A. The heavily Republican and militaristic gun lobby and voting contingent doesn't support either one.

Have fun defending the indefensible. Hope we all win the "When the Shooting Starts" lottery!

Politics is supposed to be about finding solutions to problems, but it has de-volved into nothing more than picking a "team" and rooting for them no matter what.

That father's despair is most heart-wrenching image I can imagine. When I think about the emptiness of losing the most important thing in life, it is THAT image that my mind conjures up, that emptiness and despondency that I feel in the pit of my stomach.

My own children have (so far, and hopefully forever) remained untouched by school violence; but when Sandy Hook happened I was shaken to my core (as I had a daughter the same age as all of those victims and I KNOW the innocence and vivacity of those poor children and I FELT the terror that they experienced in the last moments of their all too short lives because I know the emotional states of children that exact age all too well.

I have never felt the same since. More than 9/11. More than any other tragedy. Sandy Hook gutted me in a way that other shootings before did not. The plethora of shootings since are like constant aftershocks of the earthquake. EVERY day my kids go off to school, they get a hug and kiss from dad before they leave and EVERY day a deep corner of my mind whispers "what is THAT was the last time?" The endless nagging feeling of one day being in that picture above tears me up constantly.

87,000+ dead since then...87,000!

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH US?!?!?!?

we'll be able to act in a meaningful way, now', but I was wrong.

Every time I see one of the Sandy Hook parents, I feel the sick emptiness that they must feel after such unimaginable, unbearable loss. The most precious thing in the world, a child, ripped from this life for absolutely no reason at all.

I don't know - maybe you have to be a parent to relate fully to the magnitude of that horror.

Anyway, here's my proposal... I don't hold any realistic expectations that this would or could ever happen, but I believe it's what must happen to reduce these horrific mass shootings. The way I see it, the gun is nearly irrelevant - it's the large amount of ammo that can be fired quickly. So don't ban the guns; ban the magazines.

1. Ban the manufacture and possession of magazines in excess of 5 rounds. Limit the possession of magazines to exactly (2) per firearm. If you're caught with a high-capacity magazine, you go to jail for one year. People who enjoy their AR and AK type rifles get to keep them, but you don't get to carry 500 rounds of ammo around with you. If you can't defend your home or shoot that varmint with 10 shots, you probably aren't qualified to own a gun anyway.

2. Handguns - same principle. Semi-auto handguns limited to 5 rounds and 2 magazines per weapon. You get caught with more than 10 rounds on your person, you go to jail for a year. Everyone gets to keep their pistol of choice for self-defense, but you only get 10 rounds to walk around with.

This won't immediately stop a mass shooter, since they're not usually deterred by fear of punishment, but it would begin to get the high-capacity magazines out of circulation.

3. Change the culture. Modify the HIIPA laws to make it easier for health care providers, even family physicians, to notify the local Chief of Police when individuals are suffering from anger management issues, severe depression, drug abuse, etc. Give the local police broader powers to temporarily confiscate firearms when there are warning bells going off. In Massachusetts, guns are immediately confiscated whenever a restraining order is issued. Somehow this kid in Oregon was able to legally amass over a dozen weapons, and I predict we'll soon learn that at least several people were comcermed about his anti-social tendencies. Yes, privacy will take a hit, but people have the right to not be in fear when going to school or to the movies.

More culture change - let's treat parents who let children under 14 play violent video games like GTAV as abusive. You wouldn't let your 14 year old drive around beating women and running over babies, so why would you let them simulate it with such realism?

I don't think we can do anything overnight that will end these mass shootings, but I believe these steps will be effective over time in reducing them.

Do you stop people and search them to see how much they have on them? I am good with not having high capacity magazines available, but not sure how you would limit possession of ammo.

I am in agreement that culture change needs to happen, not sure how to do it.

Several states have passed even less restrictive gun laws.. and a few have passed some good gun control, Oregon being one of them.
In Colorado, our Democratic legislature passed stronger background checks and, guess what, no guns have been confiscated. I know how much that surprises everyone , including the sheriffs like this one who say they can't enforce it.. too lazy and dumb.

That said, there was a recall of two of the state legislators who passed the bill.

the needs of the many (non-NRA 97-98%) outweigh the needs of the few (NRA 2-3% of the population)

We need to find a way to get Congress to act.

Take it to the streets. That's all they pay attention to. Picket their offices, their homes, make them understand that they are the ones with blood on their hands.

!

LOL, yeah, good luck with that, there are over 5 million NRA members, with more joining every day, on top of the more than 90 million gun owners in this country.
You can advocate for the demise of the NRA all you want, it's your right, but bear in mind that it's just not going to happen.

That's a startling number considering that they counted from Sandy Hooks upwards.

The 2nd Amendment must be watered daily with the blood of innocents.

... and have always gotten forgotten in context with Sandy Hook getting more visibility...



I wonder if the same pattern holds, if this weekend, we'll have another shooting on the east coast where a hundred victims are shot...

For now, at least the Roseburg shooting is getting visibility not just here in Oregon like Clackamas was but nationwide, and hopefully help us do something about it.

Last edited Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:34 AM - Edit history (1)

This shows a steep decline in deaths over the years then 26, now only 8...

In 2008 a ruling came down on the issue of "self protection" in the District of Columbia vs Heller.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html

This right wing court in that ruling has done more damage with that ruling.

These five justices talk out of both sides of there proverbial mouths under the banner of being "neutral" under the 2nd amendment in the principle of "originalism" back in the draft of 1791 bill of rights.

Scalia since he wrote the majority opinion (5-4) from the 2nd amendment that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Lets understand what judicial activism is all about:

The five right wingers with Scalia wrting for the majority, found in those words that a individual will and can be untethered to any militia, they managed to eliminate the pre-amble of the 2nd amendment with there judicial activism, the total four words in the pre-amble now mean nothing. They all by there little selves decided to make a new law, without any congressional oversight--------they just decided to amend the Constitution, and make a new amendment -------------- none-------------in my opinion

The right wing NRA and the wacko right wing gun group, Gun Owners of America got what they wanted and Scalia wasn't done yet, he jumped on his blooded shark to say that to "keep and bear arms" protects the right for the individual in the general right to possess guns, to hell with what a city council has to say or ruling, right along with the another ruling in McDonald vs Chicago rulings, which now includes states and cities.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/307/174

Scalai has refused or to acknowledge the courts ruling in United States vs Miller case.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/307/174

Yet in his majority opinion backed by Roberts, this newly discovered individual right makes it possible for the gun to be brought out of the home, so that in another ruling which will be contemplated for another day, with his offering opinion, that in the Heller ruling poses no threat.

Welcome to the 2015 Wild West Scalia and Roberts court show on what is now called gun safety.

With the Heller ruling, the NRA is now embolden to stop gun safety with the help of Scalia's idea of "originalism", which he and the other five buddies when put in there ruling that they do abhor the idea of "living constitutionalism".

A Reagan appellate court judge Richard Posner stated, that, what Scalia and his team have done is present a "snow job" and "faux originalism" with the Heller ruling along with two cases coming out of judicial system for another ruling concerning the cities of Chicago and San Diego courts, on the issue of concealed carry permit on it's constitutionality, and the public just might get some more "law" of Scalia interpretation of "originalism" and that's really scary..........................

Ronald Reagan must be really proud that his legacy is alive and well on this court, since at least three of them were confirmed and this activism that he and others use to blame as being to "liberal " and there was to much "judicial activism " by liberal appointments kinda throws that notion out the window--------------------------

Our culture is perhaps obsessed with violence and its starts at the top. More than 20 percent of the population has not been alive a day that we were not at war. War is almost uninterrupted: World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the War on Drugs, the Global War on Terror, and many, many undeclared wars and military actions few of you know. We have the largest, most powerful military the world has ever seen and yet we continually fear attack. We sell more weapons to foreign lands than any other country on Earth, ever. At home, we advocate Old Testament eye-for-an-eye justice and hypocritically judge madmen, who chop off heads. A majority of Americans say they favor torture as a useful tool when proven that torture does not work. Fact is most Americans don’t respect human life and then we pretend to be shocked when a mentally ill child kills with a gun. We enjoy watching it; how else could a recent movie like Mad Max do well and make millions. We blame the gun, not the monster committing the act, perhaps because inside we know we are the monster. Perhaps there is hope. We don’t blame a martini when a drunk driver kills. We blame the driver and thank God because I enjoy a good martini. Cognitive dissonance is like a thief in the night, robbing people of right reason. I’m not quite sure where we are headed but when I heard the President speak yesterday I thought I watched a ship on a rough sea without a rudder. I am baffled by feigned abhorrence of violence while simultaneously prosecuting war on a global scale, involved in conflicts that are not vital to our survival as a nation. Even when generals, admirals, and the warrior class tell the country that the wars need to end, America continues to advocate continued war and for new wars. It’s disturbing. Does anyone ever stop to think about who were are, what we represent, and where we need to go during the next 100 years? Is 100 years of war is the answer? How truly lame, weak, and shortsighted. Anyway that’s just my two cents. Even though violent crime is on the decline, there will be another mentally ill person shooting up a gun-free venue (because no one will be returning fire there) and we will be fighting in a new foreign land before the year is done. I wish voters would wake up and look behind the bull in our media, the Congress, and the President. Yeah, "all along the watch tower" for sure.