i imagine them up all night in their bunker coming up with this lie

The right to life is the most important right of them all. They havve to be stopped.

for the 'all lives matters' movement and anybody else that is concerned about the lives of our citizen. I wonder if Bill O'Reilly cares about these people...will he say anything about their deaths besides saying our hearts go out to their families.

Further, ALL members of the NRA are complicit in the behavior and should be considered terrorists as well.

Owning a gun, like a car, should be a privilege. There should be a competency testing program to get a license to operate a gun, just as there is with a vehicle. Some people wind up losing their driver's licenses if they don't obey the laws - and this should be the same with a gun license. It should be regulated exactly the same.

Give it a fucking rest for a day or two.

people post stupid shit about guns and get a response. Isn't that the point of the posts in the first place?

and i agree the post the most stupid shit.

the original post is directly off their website. why do they need to lie? why are they telling their members that the President

wants to take their guns without due process. why say that? what is their purpose?


from the nra....insane shit

Why don't you give it rest for a day or 2?

which is interesting considering that now about 40% of Americans of working age hold a college degree.

I'm sensing a pattern.

are terrorists?
I'm calling bullshit on that asinine statement.

I would like a link that shows that number.

you go right on thinking that.

And what number?

You may think they do, but they really don't.

But that still doesn't mean the NRA, nor the firearm owning members here on DU have blood on their hands.
That's like, ummmm, your opinion not based in any fact.

Suicide is terrible, but this graphic is sensationalist and manipulative.

That's a ridiculously stupid statement and frankly harmful to any meaningful gun control movement. The NRA aren't cutting off people's heads, torturing people, raping women and girls, or practicing slavery. Let's keep even a shred of perspective, ok?

And the Dept. of Homeland Security would be surprised to know that the NRA and it's members are terrorists, maybe you should contact them and let them know.

No you are not. You are one person who thinks your imagined "right" trumps someone else's right to be alive. That is crazy talk.

Do try to keep up.
Imagined right?
Hmmm, so I suppose the 1st, 4th, 5th, etc are all imagined rights?
Are you even listening to yourself?
Here, let me help you out, in Heller v DC, the SCOTUS ruled that the 2A is an individual right not connected to militia service.
Now do you understand?

What can I say - we have a reactionary court right now that values things like corporations and guns over actual human beings. Crappy decision.

And the personal insults are noted. Welcome to ignore.

and values Pres. Obama's health care law.

I thought that law was for the American people. Why are you on Democratic underground?

Did or didn't Pres. Obama propose and craft the ACA? He's proud, and rightly so, that the ACA is now law.
Take your "Why are you on Democratic underground?" and place it in a deep dark place where the sun don't shine.

I wasn't even talking to you. You have no business talking to me like this.

If you weren't talking to me, then why did you reply to my post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027222164#post44

Response to GGJohn (Reply #37)

Fri Oct 9, 2015, 08:47 AM

Star Member Punkingal (6,115 posts)

44. President Obama's health care law?????

I thought that law was for the American people. Why are you on Democratic underground?

I don't have to be abused here....

My rights don't trump your rights at all. Everyone has the right to their life and to be free of violence. That is a natural right. That still doesn't change the fact that the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to bare arms. That's just a fact. Gun control is a very thorny constitutional issue as a result.

so until Heller is overturned, you are going to have to work within those constraints. The 2A does allow for strict regulation of guns so many of the things you want would be constitutional. The problem is just like cars, gun ownership is regulated at the state level. Getting 50 states to adopt uniform laws on gun ownership is going to be hard.

I've had to put the rest of them on ignore.

As for the states rights arguments, you're not 100% correct there. Sure, states regulate these things but the federal government is not without it's powers.

Example: highway funds. "Wisconsin, you can raise the drinking age to 21 or you can lose all highway funds" (just one example because they pulled this while I was 17!!). It's a very effective method.

Look, I grew up in a hunting state and do have some sympathy here. But the deaths are out of control. It will likely take a mix of things - I don't think it's just guns. But could we talk about getting the most dangerous ones off the street while we work on the underlying issues (economic inequality, mental illness, etc that are festering beneath the surface).

Most of which protect the right to keep and bear arms at the state level. State courts will pay a huge role.

According to the Supremacy Clause (Article VI, clause 2) of the United States Constitution,

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

As the Supreme Court stated in Altria Group v. Good, 555 U.S. 70 (2008), a federal law that conflicts with a state law will trump, or "preempt", that state law:

Consistent with that command, we have long recognized that state laws that conflict with federal law are "without effect." Maryland v. Louisiana, 451 U. S. 725, 746 (1981)

Anyone can buy and own one because of the right to own property. What is a privilege is getting licensed to operate it on government owned roads. There are tens of thousands of non-registered cars in the USA that are either stored as collectibles/museum pieces, used for sports ventures (but not "street" legal), or used on private property like farm equipment.

Even if the owner doesn't have a license, they still own the car. I owned a VW Bus that was not registered until I'd had a chance to restore it to road-worthy condition. I know several people who own classic 60s sports cars that they keep garaged as collectibles. None are registered for road use.

I guess the examples would be something like ...

If you own a car but aren't supposed to drive (but drive anyway) and then kill someone - you are responsible, not the car manufacturer etc

If you own a gun but aren't supposed to use it (let's say someone has refused to license you) - and then you kill someone, you are responsible, not the gun manufacturer etc

That would be logical. I guess what I'm saying is let's make sure there is a competency test and license you have to pass when you're 16 - just like cars. Most responsible people are going to be ok under such a law but it may weed out some of the extreme cases we've had recently (folks with mental illness who seem to just lose it).

Driving a semi truck - now that is a bigger responsibility & requires a special license. Maybe should do the same with more powerful guns?


Do you see what I'm getting at? I'm not opposed to hunting, not out there to confiscate them all. Just putting some restraints out there in the name of public safety. Until the Roberts court came along I think we did sort of have this mindset even if everything wasn't codified in exactly this way. Even Ronald Reagan favored some gun control. It's just gotten way out of control in the past decade or so in terms of the NRA (and members) demanding that they have unfettered rights to own whatever weapons they want.

I think the ideal place is for restrictions is on buying. Laws that require taking a safety course and passing a background check to get permission to buy seem very legit to me. I think costs have to be kept in control though to avoid making it a class-ism issue. The license to own issue gets hairy, and while some states do have such a set-up, like the $10 FOID card in Illinois, it raises clear issues with the right to own property. Do you really own something if it can be taken at any time without the license? As I was pointing out, even if you lose your drivers license, you keep the car. I think the perfect analogy is you can't take the guns outside of your home, except to a licensed dealer/gunsmith without a license.

While some states allow the police to confiscate the guns in certain circumstances, they still have to have a court hearing (due process) and then pay the person who they confiscated the guns from the full fair market value per the 5th Amendment. I realize that people are angry and in the emotions often don't give a damn about the legal protections, but we'll never have laws allowing inspections of homes and the like. It's so unconstitutional that even just suggesting such a thing is political suicide.

as you say it is unfortunate that sometimes emotions get in the way. That is one thing this country still has going for it despite the Patriot Act and income inequality - we still have a lot of freedom. We have to be careful to preserve that as we strive to be a safer and more equitable society.

I got labeled a "gunner" by some here because I own a few guns that I inherited from deceased family and consider them family heirlooms with sentimental value. But I'm on board with taking reasonable measures to drop the gun death rate -I just want the term reasonable to include "legal and constitutional". I'm a member of the ACLU and civil liberties are very important to me. Our democratic republic form of government will only survive if we keep them solid.

Not one of the gun nuts has ever been able to say what Obama has done to take their guns away. Still they will repeat the lie.

so I agree with you.

they lie to spread fear. as you say, Obama hasn't touched one gun!

Will correct a lot of this bullshit.
Money's not Speech.
Publicly-funded elections across the board. That's the Zeitgeist for this election cycle. We KNOW we can beat the odds, we proved it with electing Obama. Time to do it again.

Go Bernie, Go.

that is their shtick

Damn you, NRA!