Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Maraya1969

(22,462 posts)
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:43 PM Oct 2015

To the ones saying our problem is not guns but a deterioration

of society. As if we just change people's attitudes we can stop such killings.

What do you think a person's attitude becomes when he grows up in a country that is constantly at war with other countries, dropping bombs, drones, executing it's own people, and filling up the prisons with people who really need medical care?

And for those of us trying to preempt these values on our young people by teaching non-violence we are ultimately called, "traitors" " and told we "hate America" and we "hate our troops"

This country teaches violence. Selling guns is just part of it.

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
To the ones saying our problem is not guns but a deterioration (Original Post) Maraya1969 Oct 2015 OP
Agree that the guns -- and the newling rationalizations for them -- are part and parcel of the toxic villager Oct 2015 #1
Maybe we need to take a page or two from the 'Stop Smoking' people. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #2
Like family members with pictures of their dead young relatives Maraya1969 Oct 2015 #6
Yup. MADD comes to mind also Recursion Oct 2015 #18
Exactly thats why non violence needs to be from the top down. WDIM Oct 2015 #3
Until we have in this country TM99 Oct 2015 #4
we need to take domestic violence FAR more seriously. mopinko Oct 2015 #5
"The healthy man does not torture others - generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers." jtuck004 Oct 2015 #13
Each of us must begin to learn and teach self-love first. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #7
Profound but mostly misunderstood. Duppers Oct 2015 #8
It is self-compassion and nurturance. How can we teach our children to love themselves first, Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #10
... Duppers Oct 2015 #12
Guns are a symptom of a detoriating society. ananda Oct 2015 #9
The country's doing a much "worse" job of teaching violence now than in the past, apparently Recursion Oct 2015 #11
As is the US homicide rate still among the highest in the industrialized world LanternWaste Oct 2015 #16
And still low compared to other larger, heterogenous colonial countries Recursion Oct 2015 #17
It's the guns. Iggo Oct 2015 #14
The gun lobby would like to hand every white male infant born a gun, a flag and a Bible. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #15
 

villager

(26,001 posts)
1. Agree that the guns -- and the newling rationalizations for them -- are part and parcel of the toxic
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:48 PM
Oct 2015

...grip that violence has on society, particularly as an institutionally encouraged "solution" to so many problems....

I mean hell, this is a culture that allocates the majority of its available resources... to death! People internalize that -- and respond accordingly...

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
2. Maybe we need to take a page or two from the 'Stop Smoking' people.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:56 PM
Oct 2015

Get some tv commercial campaigns going to stigmatize gun ownership and use, social media campaigns designed to drive down the percentage of the country that owns guns, etc.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
18. Yup. MADD comes to mind also
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:37 PM
Oct 2015

The drunk driving rate has fallen even more than the murder rate over the past several decades.

WDIM

(1,662 posts)
3. Exactly thats why non violence needs to be from the top down.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:57 PM
Oct 2015

Our Government needs to lead by example that violence solves nothing.

Society is not deteriating though people are the same as they have ever been.

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
4. Until we have in this country
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:03 PM
Oct 2015

a robust mental health care system that is part of a nationalized medical system so that anyone can utilize these services free of cost without stigmatization, these types of mass killings will continue.

We can go only so far with legislation. The same is true for bigotry and racism in this country. These are psychological problems whether within a single individual or the country's psyche as a whole.

You are right that this country double messages constantly. We want war & accept it far too easily. We want revenge, I mean, justice and are willing to execute far too easily. We want to lock up those city shadows all around us instead of helping them with compassion and justice. It is far too easy to imprison than it is to rehabilitate.

Again, that comes back to changing the national psyche. The only way to do that is to finally get a president that will stand up for those things. Then we elect a congress to implement national changes that must occur. As that takes place on a collective level, then, change will start occurring on a personal one.

Only my two cents as someone who has worked in the mental health field for pushing 30 years now.

mopinko

(69,990 posts)
5. we need to take domestic violence FAR more seriously.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:39 PM
Oct 2015

part of the culture of violence- try telling people not to beat there kids, and be prepared to make a speedy exit through the back door.
we absolutely need to teach non-violent parenting. and that includes the psychological violence that is often substituted for physical violence.

i would bet my last dollar that you cant find a kid on the street corner with a gun that never got a beating, or saw his/her mother get beat.

dv perpetrators need to be prosecuted with or without the victims cooperation. then they need to hand over their guns.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
13. "The healthy man does not torture others - generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers."
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 04:14 PM
Oct 2015

Carl Jung
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/c/carljung165965.html#lRIzEOEpXqDVehm2.99

"i would bet my last dollar that you cant find a kid on the street corner with a gun that never got a beating, or saw his/her mother get beat"

- or father.

There are lots of ways to beat people. But our most spectacular failures do seem to come from those we start teaching hate to when they are very, very young.

We then absolve ourselves by saying they are crazy when they do what they do.

Yeah. Crazy. Sure. Or maybe just really good students of what we taught them.



Duppers

(28,117 posts)
8. Profound but mostly misunderstood.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:45 PM
Oct 2015

Most seem to think that means being narcissistic but understanding this is healing.

Thank you, Don't call me Shirley.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
10. It is self-compassion and nurturance. How can we teach our children to love themselves first,
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:51 PM
Oct 2015

then the world, if we as parents do not love ourselves?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
11. The country's doing a much "worse" job of teaching violence now than in the past, apparently
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:55 PM
Oct 2015

Because Americans today aren't nearly as violent as they were 20, 40, or even 60 years ago.

Not that that makes your point wrong (we were militaristic back then too), but I think the dramatic drop in violence over the past generation is worth keeping in mind.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
16. As is the US homicide rate still among the highest in the industrialized world
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:18 PM
Oct 2015

"I think the dramatic drop in violence over the past generation is worth keeping in mind."

As is the US homicide rate still among the highest in the industrialized world, despite the dramatic drop worth noting too.

"We're among the most violent people in the world, but not nearly as violent as we were 40 years ago" seems a Pyrrhic victory at best (as always, relevant context assures better aggregate accuracy).

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
17. And still low compared to other larger, heterogenous colonial countries
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:06 PM
Oct 2015

Are we more like the UK or Brazil? Because our homicide rate is between theirs.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»To the ones saying our pr...