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babylonsister

(170,964 posts)
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 09:52 AM Oct 2015

A P*ssed Off Southern Pastor Tells It Like It Is

http://www.liberalamerica.org/2015/10/03/ok-southern-not-stupid-exist-college-degrees-love-god-sick-silent/


A P*ssed Off Southern Pastor Tells It Like It Is
By Melanie Tubbs on October 3, 2015


I am a southern pastor and an educated professor who lives in rural Arkansas amidst folks who own guns and vote Republican. I hold college degrees, I preach in two churches, and I teach history in a respected four year college. I am not stupid. But I am not allowed to put political signs in my yard or stickers on my car because it will offend my students and my congregants if they know how I truly believe, even though my gun toting friends can post all the memes promoting ignorance and violence they want, without fear. So instead, I will write an article and tell the whole damn world the truth:

1. I am a proud member of the Christian Left. Not only that; I find it very hard to believe that you can read the Bible and vote Republican right now. Intolerance and hatred are not in the teachings of my Christ.

2. I vote for Democrats. Every time. I would vote for a yellow dog before I voted Republican, just like my Ma and Pa before me. I do not find good in both parties like I say I do to keep you happy. I think Republican candidates are mostly ignorant and ridiculous in everything they say, and they absolutely do not represent my Christian values of love and mission.

3. I believe in freedom of speech, for everyone, even when they don’t agree with me, even when they are stupid.


snip//


9. Traditional marriage in the Bible is polygamous. Get a Bible and read it before you try to use it to support your hatred and intolerance.

10. The confederate flag is racist. It was flown by treasonous terrorists who fired on their own country and supported the enslavement of human beings. They lost that war and it is time to move on. If you want to show your southern pride, fly an American flag and be the true patriot you claim to be. Eat some biscuits and gravy and visit your dear old grandma. Go put flowers on the grave of your grandpa who probably fought for your right to grow up privileged. And show some appreciation for the great country you live in.

I am tired of thinking I can’t be openly honest about any of these things. Now, I am going to go pray for this great country I call home. And then, I am going to do what Christ would do. I am going to act. I am going to write my congressman, donate money to the candidates I support, and read real scholarly work on the issues of this country, so that I can form educated, rational opinions and be a contributing member to real change for the better in this rural paradise I love. We are not all stupid here in rural, southern America. And it is time for the Christian Left in the South to stop being afraid to speak out.
51 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A P*ssed Off Southern Pastor Tells It Like It Is (Original Post) babylonsister Oct 2015 OP
When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious Oct 2015 #1
I really like this statement. R. P. McMurphy Oct 2015 #8
Thank You - Please Share Widely - We Have The Power - Let Us Exercise The Courage cantbeserious Oct 2015 #11
I just read an insightful comment on another site suggesting that the Republican Party establishment tblue37 Oct 2015 #17
Know Thy Enemy - Oligarchs, Corporations, Banks And Their Media Minions And MIC Henchmen cantbeserious Oct 2015 #26
It's more like the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Washington Generals. Dustlawyer Oct 2015 #45
She's right. The Christian Left has allowed the right wing to co-opt the tag of "Christian" mnhtnbb Oct 2015 #2
More liberal Christians stage left Oct 2015 #3
Amen.... daleanime Oct 2015 #4
WOW Excellent thank you oldandhappy Oct 2015 #5
Indeed, it was the behavior of "Christians" who first led me to question 1monster Oct 2015 #6
+1. eom R. P. McMurphy Oct 2015 #9
yes handmade34 Oct 2015 #16
Good. yardwork Oct 2015 #7
Enormous K & R. May this pastor's fellow critical thinkers stand up and be counted. Surya Gayatri Oct 2015 #10
Hmmmmm Beowulf42 Oct 2015 #12
ding ding allan01 Oct 2015 #13
Real Christians Are Not Republican Yallow Oct 2015 #14
I would love a BUMPER STICKER with what you said.... Gloria Oct 2015 #23
Thank you for posting this. SheilaT Oct 2015 #15
Damn. You found my philosophical doppleganger. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #18
The power of conservatism everywhere sulphurdunn Oct 2015 #19
Ain't that the truth YoungDemCA Oct 2015 #22
as my dearest friend (and du member) now deceased, used to say, "I am what terrifies niyad Oct 2015 #20
AMEN, I AGREE. But Republicans don't want you to have a voice or vote. Thats how they win. rladdi Oct 2015 #21
How can anyone even argue with what he says? world wide wally Oct 2015 #24
Brilliant! smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #25
Bravo to the... 3catwoman3 Oct 2015 #27
I thought he was going to say "Feel THe Bern" near the end. Duckfan Oct 2015 #28
That pastor is a WOMAN! progressoid Oct 2015 #29
Opps. Sorry I didn't see that. Duckfan Oct 2015 #38
i have been working on my moderate republican epal using the bible's NEW testament. how his party is pansypoo53219 Oct 2015 #30
You should be teaching your congregation how you WDIM Oct 2015 #31
God bless you brother workinclasszero Oct 2015 #32
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #33
No No... Jesus hated all ferners and hoarded millions in wealth. Oneironaut Oct 2015 #34
Excellent Thespian2 Oct 2015 #35
From the OP link passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #36
Give this woman a standing ovation. brer cat Oct 2015 #37
I Hope She Finds Herself And Is Liberated Someday! NonMetro Oct 2015 #39
I love this woman. Truly. FourScore Oct 2015 #40
Jesus said lots of nasty, irrational and hateful stuff. When will a Christian admit that? Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2015 #41
Jesus said lots of hateful, vile things. Why can't Christians admit to that? Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2015 #42
You distort what Jesus said in order to promote a bias. King_Klonopin Oct 2015 #44
I'm using plain English. Quoting Jesus in plain English. Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2015 #48
Look, your user name reveals all that I need to know King_Klonopin Oct 2015 #49
You make lots of unfounded assumptions. Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2015 #50
Howard Dean was right with the 50 state strategy. The DLC abandoned Liberals below the Mason Dixon. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #43
Obviously, this pastor reads the Bible. JDPriestly Oct 2015 #46
If he hadn't said he preached in two churches, I would have said I knew who he was. sinkingfeeling Oct 2015 #47
K&R... from a Southern atheist! Thanks for the post, babylonsister! n/t Ghost in the Machine Oct 2015 #51

R. P. McMurphy

(833 posts)
8. I really like this statement.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 11:08 AM
Oct 2015

"No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils."

It helps bolster my resolve to vote my conscience and I use it when talking to people about Bernie.

Just wanted you to know.

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
17. I just read an insightful comment on another site suggesting that the Republican Party establishment
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 12:03 PM
Oct 2015

and the corporate leadership of the Democratic Party actually play a "good-cop/bad-cop" con on the voters, working together to further the interests of their corporate and bankster owners. Of course we have long known they do cooperate to satisfy their wealthy owners, but I had not thought of their behavior specifically in terms of good cop/bad cop. In fact, although that does seem to be what they are doing, I suspect they don't even consciously acknowledge it to themselves. Most of them probably reassure themselves that they are actually fighting against their counterparts in the other party because they, not their opponents, have the true interests of the country in mind. But on points that really matter to the owners, there is no light between the establishment Republicans and the corporatist Democrats who control the party.

And one thing all the leaders of both parties agree on is that no one like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren can be allowed to rock the boat, because if they do, some of that lovely money might spill out!

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
45. It's more like the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Washington Generals.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 03:11 AM
Oct 2015

We all watch thinking it's real while they secretly agree to help Wall Street and the MIC take all of the tax money. They get us worked up against "the other side" so we won't think straight and continue to play their little game.

I've got news for them, WE AINT PLAYING NO MORE!!!!

mnhtnbb

(31,322 posts)
2. She's right. The Christian Left has allowed the right wing to co-opt the tag of "Christian"
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 10:04 AM
Oct 2015

based on their limited and exclusionary reading of the Bible.

stage left

(2,934 posts)
3. More liberal Christians
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 10:20 AM
Oct 2015

should stand up and be counted. I too would vote for a yellow dog before I voted for a Republican. In fact, I have my own yellow dog who is more intelligent than the average Republican.

1monster

(11,012 posts)
6. Indeed, it was the behavior of "Christians" who first led me to question
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 11:04 AM
Oct 2015

Christianity.

I no longer consider myself Christian, but do try to follow most of the teachings of Christ, which, BTW are not exclusive to the teachings of Christ.

In getting out of the Christian box, I found a far greater spirituality and peace. When one relinquishes the fear of the Judeo-Christian world, one finds an entire universe of wonder to explore.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
10. Enormous K & R. May this pastor's fellow critical thinkers stand up and be counted.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 11:11 AM
Oct 2015

The South will rise again, thanks to the intelligence and bravery of people like him/her.

Beowulf42

(202 posts)
12. Hmmmmm
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 11:11 AM
Oct 2015

This demonstrates what I have always thought was the reasoning behind the Christians who truly try to follow Christ's teachings and examples. If they were to speak out against the bigoted, ignorant, intolerant Christians their lives would be destroyed. So what we get from the Christian left is an abyss of silence, a resounding emptiness. There is no pushback, and so ignorance and prejudice and intolerance wins another debate absence any opposition. If one speaks out against the crazy ass right what ensues is a huge wave of pure hate and anger. There is no reasonableness about the discussion. The right wins with bombast and the left loses with timidness.

 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
14. Real Christians Are Not Republican
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 11:26 AM
Oct 2015

Today's Republicans worship power and greed.

Not exactly what Christ taught.....

Gloria

(17,663 posts)
23. I would love a BUMPER STICKER with what you said....
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 01:19 PM
Oct 2015

Real Christians Are Not Republican

I would buy one if you had them to sell...I would actually by a bunch and distribute them...

Seriously, we need to see THIS on cars, not the usual crap about how Christians are forgiven....meaning they can get away with a load of shit...

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
15. Thank you for posting this.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 11:33 AM
Oct 2015
The confederate flag is racist. It was flown by treasonous terrorists who fired on their own country and supported the enslavement of human beings.


I'm going to need to remember this and quote it back to every single person who suggests the confederate flag is harmless and represents "heritage".
 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
19. The power of conservatism everywhere
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 12:09 PM
Oct 2015

has always resided in the use of religion as a justification for violence to maintain the status quo.

niyad

(112,444 posts)
20. as my dearest friend (and du member) now deceased, used to say, "I am what terrifies
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 12:12 PM
Oct 2015

the reich--a left-wing, evangelical christian." from what I could see, the whole congregation of which she was a member were pretty much in that vein as well.

rladdi

(581 posts)
21. AMEN, I AGREE. But Republicans don't want you to have a voice or vote. Thats how they win.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 12:28 PM
Oct 2015

They want puppets so as to pull their strings on how to vote.

pansypoo53219

(20,908 posts)
30. i have been working on my moderate republican epal using the bible's NEW testament. how his party is
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 04:27 PM
Oct 2015

not christian at all. the fetus is not the end all be all. nor does jesus mention BOOTSTRAPS.

Oneironaut

(5,463 posts)
34. No No... Jesus hated all ferners and hoarded millions in wealth.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 05:28 PM
Oct 2015

I heard about it on my favorite right wing radio show.

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
35. Excellent
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 05:28 PM
Oct 2015

statement of Truth...I grew up in Georgia...I have met all the people she is talking about...my sister in Tennessee is one of them...

Most of the babblers I hear have never read the bible...including the "religious" grifters working the media to vacuum money away from the gullible...

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
36. From the OP link
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 06:28 PM
Oct 2015
7. There is too much hate and there are too many guns in this country. And, I believe those things do not align with Christ’s command to love our neighbor. You cannot believe that guns are the way to save the world if you study Christ’s teachings. Peace, love, giving, acceptance, forgiveness; Christ taught all these things. I find no red scriptures on gun ownership or arming for peace. They just aren’t there. Get over it. You are not being a Christian if you put your faith in guns. How dare you post pro-gun propaganda after a school shooting. It is insensitive, and offensive, and immoral. Christ would NOT approve. People carrying guns are NOT saving lives. But the free availability of guns in this country is causing deaths which are reaching viral proportions. Enough is enough. I don’t care about your damned right to own guns. I am tired of children dying in this great country.




If more Christians thought and behaved like her, there might not be so many people rapidly fleeing the church...especially young people. I'm OK with them leaving the church, as I am an atheist, but I don't mind people having a faith in something loving and uniting and caring that gives them comfort and hope and builds community. Unfortunately from the time I was dragged into the church as a child, I've not met many Christians of this woman's caliber.

brer cat

(24,402 posts)
37. Give this woman a standing ovation.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 06:42 PM
Oct 2015

I actually know many liberal Christians, but they are drowned out by faux x-tians who try to justify their hatred and bigotry by quoting the Bible, which few of them understand or even bother to read.

FourScore

(9,704 posts)
40. I love this woman. Truly.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 11:57 PM
Oct 2015

I am from the South. I want all of my Christian/Republican friends and family to read this article. She articulates it so well.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
41. Jesus said lots of nasty, irrational and hateful stuff. When will a Christian admit that?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 12:13 AM
Oct 2015

For example he cursed out a fig tree for not fruiting out of season.
He said "I come not in peace but with a sword." He said that he came to set families apart.
He said he had not one problem with the law of the old testament and what the god of the old testament did as far as mass murder.
He condemned many thousands to fiery deaths for their sins. He condemned entire groups of people for not listening to his preaching. Condemning large groups of people to hell, and saying he was speaking in parables to confuse people, seemed to be one of his favorite activities.

There are hundreds of examples of these. Why is there no Christian denomination that says, "We reject these statements as evil and hateful. We only recognize the kind, peaceful and loving things Jesus said, like The Sermon on the Mount."

Why is there NO Christian denomination that will remove the hateful and irrational stories in the Bible? Why do all Christians refuse to acknowledge the hateful, evil, cruel things Jesus allegedly said, instead of saying, "Oh that was a metaphor, he didn't mean that in the literal plain reading that most people would get from it."

WHY? I am waiting.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
42. Jesus said lots of hateful, vile things. Why can't Christians admit to that?
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 12:21 AM
Oct 2015

For example Jesus cursed a fig tree for not fruiting out of season. He loved to condemn people to fiery gruesome deaths and eternal torment for nonsensical reasons.

He said he had no problem with the Old Testament, the law and the prophets, and that he would be just fine with their vindictive god.

He said "I come not in peace but with a sword." He said he had come to set families apart.

He said he spoke in parables in order to confuse people.

Why is there NO Christian denomination that says, "We don't accept those hateful statements as part of our Bible. We only accept the kind and loving things Jesus said, like The Sermon on the Mount."

There are hundreds of contradictions in the Bible. Why don't people face up to those contradictions and just say "The Bible was written by committee, convened by Emperor Constantine, and it really doesn't make a lot of sense, for that reason."

The only answers I get are, "He was speaking in metaphors and parables. He didn't really mean it." Which to me is a pretty sorry excuse.

Why are there no Christians who are kind and loving who REJECT those many hateful and cruel statements allegedly made by Jesus? Why don't they edit their bible down to only include loving statements?

I would like to see a Bible edited down to only kind and loving statements, but have never seen any denomination endorse or even consider the idea. Why not?


King_Klonopin

(1,305 posts)
44. You distort what Jesus said in order to promote a bias.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 03:06 AM
Oct 2015

Jesus cursed a fig tree for not providing fruit (its reason for being) as an example to his disciples.
Our life has expectations and purpose -- bearing good fruit, not just consuming it, being one of them.
If we are blessed with certain gifts and choose not to share them, we may as well wither up and be dead.

He repeatedly said that He was "the way" to salvation and that He supersedes the old Mosaic law, which
he criticized frequently as being incomplete and based on our performance rather than on faith and love.
His commandment was new and complete, summed up as two simple things: Love God, and love your neighbor
as yourself. His way of personally demonstrating this is hard to top.

The "sword" he speaks of is his tongue speaking the hard, sharp truth -- not a literal sword used to kill people.
If we die to sin, it is by our own choosing. We can't use the excuse that He did not explain the stakes to us or
that He refused to offer help. To say that He loved to condemn people to fiery, eternal torments is insulting and
vile in itself. He is quoted as lamenting the loss of just one "chick" or just one of " My lambs". He lamented
Jerusalem's rejection of Him and His plea for them to accept Him and repent. He did not curse them. You want
to portray Him as some kind of a Sadist ?! WTF ?! He even wants to save you, if you take Him at His word.

Jesus did not say his intention was to destroy families. He said that we must put our faith and trust in God before
anything in this temporal world -- even our own family members -- and He warned us that some of our dearly
beloved relatives would not follow in His path and they would be lost and separated from us as a result
("let the dead bury the dead&quot . His avowed enemy is not the human being who is a sinner; His enemy is Death, Evil,
and the lies of the king of all liars.

We see what you choose to see. We hear what you choose to hear. We can strain out the gnat and swallow the camel.
As a Christian, I have heard all those sorry criticisms (misinterpretations) you have mentioned above a million times.

Why do so few people choose to criticize, indict and condemn the name of Satan and his influence on humankind
with the same amount of smug certainty that so many people use to condemn the name of God and Christianity ?
If Democrats were to stop condoning an anti-theistic bias (different from atheistic), our party would add to its ranks
those Christians who presently identify as Republicans but suspect, deep-down, that Republicans are nothing more than
Pharisees of modern times and that Democrats are truly Christian in their ideology -- the original point of the OP.

There is a reason why a children prefer going to Disneyland rather than going to Church.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
48. I'm using plain English. Quoting Jesus in plain English.
Wed Oct 14, 2015, 01:53 PM
Oct 2015

And I don't go to church because I think going to church is emotional abuse of both children and adults.

telling a person that just because they are breathing, they are a worthless piece of crap sinner, because of a fairy tale about a woman eating a fruit and disobeying god? That's extremely emotionally abusive. And that the only answer to this made-up imaginary problem of original sin is a made-up solution called "accepting jesus"? I don't know what "accepting jesus" means because there is no historical record that he existed in the first place, nor any evidence that I can see that there is a god and that he is the son of god.

Telling kids they are guilty of original sin and need to accept Jesus is socially accepted child abuse.

Original sin is a made up problem with a made up solution, a guy who never existed historically, Jesus. He is a synthetic god with the same characteristics as Mithra, Apollo and Osiris. There are no contemporary accounts of Jesus' life, written down while he lived, unlike Julius Caesar or others of the same time period. I learned this in my religion classes in college. Yes, I went to a religious college, but not one of those bible-beating literalist schools. I was not indoctrinated. I was educated about the sociology and anthropology of the time periods that these scriptures were written and the circumstances of Constantine and the council of Nicaea.

I don't believe in Satan either. So your argument holds no water with me. Lucifer is Latin for "bearer of Light" and he was a very high angel.

A lot of kids get told how they can never live up to the standards of perfection of the alleged life of Jesus and so they kill themselves. Or they are so sheltered and homeschooled, and told that everything in the outside world is evil, that they can't deal with it because nobody has taught them life skills, so they kill themselves.

Christianity destroys lives. I had to get up and walk out of the church before I just crawled in a hole for the rest of my life, immobilized by fear. That is no way to live.

Now that I am a secular humanist, I feel a lot happier since I know my morals do not come from a capricious cruel god who has no problem with mass killing people who disobey him. I know that people have to help each other, not just pray. Hands that help are far better than hands that pray.

King_Klonopin

(1,305 posts)
49. Look, your user name reveals all that I need to know
Thu Oct 15, 2015, 01:24 AM
Oct 2015

You are the only god your universe needs.

You are vastly superior to unenlightened ones like me.

You hate any notion of a "God" (anti-theist), which means I should, too.

You don't seem to be too happy judging by these posts; you seem resentful.

You still missed the point of the OP: democrats should be welcoming Christians,
not condescending to them.

You did not quote Jesus, you paraphrased.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
50. You make lots of unfounded assumptions.
Thu Oct 15, 2015, 01:49 AM
Oct 2015


My experiences with Christianity are very traumatic. My experiences with Christianity and its starting premise and the huge damage it does, as stated (often yelled at the congregation during sermons as a tactic of control and fear) by its ministers licensed by major denomination Christian seminaries, are my truth as I experienced it at the time.

Yours are not. You explain your way out of the hateful things the alleged Jesus said in plain English. I asked a simple question about the mean hateful words of Jesus, and never have gotten a straight answer. You did the usual apologetics. If you want to obsess over your faith, you are welcome to spend your time doing that. Just as I am welcome to spend my time in other pursuits.


By the way, I did not make up my user name. When we switched from DU2 to DU3 we had to get a different handle. A person in a special interest group gave me that name, although I have never met them.


I quoted Jesus in plain English. I never said I was god or a god. I never said I was superior to you. I have chosen a different path and said why. I said I could not follow the path you are on because it is a dark, depressing, life-denying of this present life here and now, and it is an ultimately futile path because humans are always imperfect. Impossible standards of perfection cannot be met by anyone, no matter how good they are. Anyone who tries to be a perfect Christian will ALWAYS fail. Failure is built into the premise.


"Light" has a different definition than "God" or "Gods". Light is generally measured in wavelengths and it can behave as either a wave or a particle. It is part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Light can also refer to spiritual awareness. There are many thousands of different actions that humans perceive as being spiritual or religious.


The religious also have fought wars for centuries over whose god was the correct true god, and whose religious rituals were the correct true rituals. Killed and tortured millions of people as well. It's still going on to this day.


Look "light" up in your dictionary.


And your name refers to a very dangerous controlled substance. Am I to infer from that name that you are some sort of addict to that particular controlled pill?



JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
46. Obviously, this pastor reads the Bible.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 04:15 AM
Oct 2015

I especially like the parts about guns and the gun-worshipers.

Thanks for posting.

sinkingfeeling

(51,281 posts)
47. If he hadn't said he preached in two churches, I would have said I knew who he was.
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 09:15 AM
Oct 2015

We have a pastor here that is very left wing. People write awful things to him in the local paper.

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