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struggle4progress

(118,228 posts)
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 03:19 PM Oct 2015

Robert E. Lee Elementary Holds Name Change Meeting (CA)

By Brie Stimson and Rory Devine

... The school was named in the late 1950s and serves children in the Paradise Hills community. District officials say documents show Lee's record as an “American soldier and educator” was listed as the reasons his name was chosen for the school ...

A flyer left at nearby houses read in part, “We don’t want outsiders coming into our community and changing the name of our beloved elementary school, Robert E. Lee Elementary” ...

Another student said it was a painful choice for her. On one hand her family has history at the school, but on the other hand there is history.

“I have read a book about this in third grade and I was wondering why they would have a name after someone who supported slavery” ...


http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Robert-E-Lee-Elementary-Holds-Name-Change-Meeting-336114361.html

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Robert E. Lee Elementary Holds Name Change Meeting (CA) (Original Post) struggle4progress Oct 2015 OP
Let's not purge HassleCat Oct 2015 #1
The re-naming of a school neither enhances, nor denies the place in history of any one person. LanternWaste Oct 2015 #2
I find no obvious connection between Lee and San Diego. But naming a San Diego elementary school struggle4progress Oct 2015 #3
That's probably true HassleCat Oct 2015 #7
Lee already has a fitting memorial in the great stone gardens of Arlington struggle4progress Oct 2015 #8
How Segregation Defined San Diego’s Neighborhoods struggle4progress Oct 2015 #4
Guide to the Carlin Integration Case Records struggle4progress Oct 2015 #5
Decades after desegregation lawsuit, San Diego schools still "separate but unequal" (1999) struggle4progress Oct 2015 #6
Dude, you are the most righteous champion skepticscott Oct 2015 #10
I've disliked the neo-confederates and their code talk for fifty years, struggle4progress Oct 2015 #15
Yes, given your posting history here skepticscott Oct 2015 #17
This earlier retort of yours seemed wittier: struggle4progress Oct 2015 #19
It doesn't require revisionism skepticscott Oct 2015 #9
And if it were in Arlington or Lexington VA it might be different. Recursion Oct 2015 #14
But he owned slaves! AlbertCat Oct 2015 #18
"Named after someone who supported slavery" would also rule out Washington and Jefferson, Nye Bevan Oct 2015 #11
When the school board of segregated San Diego in 1957 approved "Robert E Lee" struggle4progress Oct 2015 #12
I agree that the Robert E Lee school should be renamed. Nye Bevan Oct 2015 #13
She's an elementary school kid. I'm happy she read a book and thought about it struggle4progress Oct 2015 #16
 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
1. Let's not purge
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 03:23 PM
Oct 2015

I don't like these revisionist purges based on one issue. Many great people throughout history have been full of contradictions. Lee is not only eligible for sainthood in the south, but was greatly admired by many Union soldiers.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
2. The re-naming of a school neither enhances, nor denies the place in history of any one person.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 03:31 PM
Oct 2015

What some may interpret as a purge may easily be seen as simple progress. The re-naming of a school neither enhances, nor denies the place in history of any one person, and will not result in historical revisionism.

struggle4progress

(118,228 posts)
3. I find no obvious connection between Lee and San Diego. But naming a San Diego elementary school
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 03:33 PM
Oct 2015

for Lee in the 1950s did have a particular meaning: it was a vocal stand against integration.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
7. That's probably true
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 03:40 PM
Oct 2015

There would be no other logical reason for it. In this particular case, if there is evidence the name was chosen as an act of defiance to integration, then the name has to go.

struggle4progress

(118,228 posts)
4. How Segregation Defined San Diego’s Neighborhoods
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 03:35 PM
Oct 2015

Adrian Florido | March 21, 2011

It was January 1957. For days, Jewell Hooper and her older sister Carrine had been driving up and down El Cajon Boulevard in search of a motel. Carrine’s husband had just moved the family to San Diego to start a job at Convair, an aircraft manufacturer. So it was up to the two sisters to find the family a better place to stay until they could move into a permanent place.

They were living at the St. James Hotel downtown. But refugees from the Hungarian Revolution were also staying there, and they had been shooting dirty glances at Hooper and her family for weeks. The family wanted a suite with a kitchen so they wouldn’t have to eat all their meals in public and get sideways glances there, too. So the sisters tried El Cajon Boulevard, which was lined with motels.

Not a single motel would rent them a room, despite the vacancy signs in the windows. Finally, one manager put it plainly. He had seen them driving back and forth in their Chevrolet for days.

“He said, ‘Lady, I don’t know where you’re from, but I’ve seen you and this other lady going up and down this street every day. You’re never going to find a vacancy here,'” Hooper remembered. “He asked if we knew where Market Street is, and I told him yes. He said, ‘Well you go south of Market Street and look for something.’ And we did. And we found a unit that day” ...


http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/census-2010/how-segregation-defined-san-diegos-neighborhoods/

struggle4progress

(118,228 posts)
5. Guide to the Carlin Integration Case Records
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 03:37 PM
Oct 2015
... The San Diego City Schools originally followed a neighborhood school policy, under which students attended the school nearest their homes. Therefore, the schools reflected neighborhood segregation. While wealthier whites could afford to move to newer, more expensive neighborhoods with better schools, the lower income minority populations remained in the older, less wealthy neighborhoods with older schools ...
http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/kt438nf1np/entire_text/

struggle4progress

(118,228 posts)
6. Decades after desegregation lawsuit, San Diego schools still "separate but unequal" (1999)
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 03:40 PM
Oct 2015

Statement of ACLU Managing Attorney Jordan Budd,
Counsel in Carlin v. San Diego Unified School District
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Tuesday, March 9, 1999

SAN DIEGO -- Yesterday's report on student achievement by the San Diego Dialogue confirms our worst fears. Twenty years after the court in the Carlin school desegregation case ordered the San Diego Unified School District to closely monitor and correct disparities in student achievement based on race, white students attending schools in the District still receive a better education than students of color.

This achievement gap is a result of the unequal distribution of educational resources and lowered expectations regarding the abilities of poor and minority students. These findings make last year's termination of court oversight of the District's integration programs all the more troubling ...


https://www.aclu.org/news/three-decades-after-desegregation-lawsuit-san-diego-schools-are-still-separate-unequal

struggle4progress

(118,228 posts)
15. I've disliked the neo-confederates and their code talk for fifty years,
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 11:10 PM
Oct 2015

and it seems we currently have a good opportunity to push back

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
17. Yes, given your posting history here
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 08:11 AM
Oct 2015

I can totally, completely, absolutely understand your need to look noble in that regard.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
9. It doesn't require revisionism
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:23 PM
Oct 2015

to recognize that Lee committed treason against the United States of America. Neo-Confederate apologists love to try to paint that over.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
14. And if it were in Arlington or Lexington VA it might be different.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 11:10 PM
Oct 2015

Particularly Lexington, since he spent a long time as an educator there after the war.

But CA? He never set foot in the state (and opposed its entering the Union). This was clearly an anti-immigration naming 60 years ago.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
18. But he owned slaves!
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 11:00 AM
Oct 2015

Just like Thomas Jefferson!

Y'know Maryland was a slave owner state too...so start purging any antebellum local famous folks up there as well.


The USA had slaves for about 100 years after it's inception. That's all there is to it.


Besides, Robert E Lee went thru a lot of anguish as to whether he should fight for the Union (and they wanted him) or for his home state. He obviously chose his state. Naming a school after him is not very PC, so rename it if the community want to. I just hope we don't start burning down antebellum mansions and things.... like they did here in Wilmington in the '60s.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
11. "Named after someone who supported slavery" would also rule out Washington and Jefferson,
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 10:09 PM
Oct 2015

and quite a few others.

struggle4progress

(118,228 posts)
12. When the school board of segregated San Diego in 1957 approved "Robert E Lee"
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 10:48 PM
Oct 2015

as the name of an elementary school, they were simply following in the long post-Reconstruction tradition of using confederate symbols and confederate heroes as code-talk for white supremacy

Brown v. Board had been national news in 1954; the Montgomery bus boycott had been national news in 1955 and 1956

In some parts of the country, mobs often attempted to block desegregation. There were riots at University of Alabama in 1956 when iot was desegregated. In Mansfield TX, the violent opposition to desegregation beginning in 1956 prevented integration until 1965

This is not simply a matter of frowning on Robert E Lee for his personal slave-holding: he bears some real responsibility for the extended duration and cost of the Civil War; and the century-long campaign, to spread his name across the country as an American idol, cannot be distinguished from the Jim Crow movement that wrecked untold lives until somewhere in the twentieth century



Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
13. I agree that the Robert E Lee school should be renamed.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 11:02 PM
Oct 2015

I'm just saying that the rationale expressed by one of the students based upon the fact that Lee supported slavery is somewhat overbroad.

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