General Discussion

KamaAina

(78,249 posts) Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:10 PM Mar 2016

Owning Up to Torture

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/opinion/sunday/owning-up-to-torture.html

I found myself thinking about Ferdinand and his dark humor after Ted Cruz and Donald J. Trump unapologetically endorsed the use of waterboarding at a Republican debate early last month. “I’d bring back waterboarding,” Mr. Trump said, “and I’d bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding.”

I don’t know what drives a man to say such things. I just know that when they do, men like Ferdinand and me will be forced to shoulder the consequences.

In my role as a civilian contractor for the Department of Defense, I spent the first three months of 2004 torturing Iraqi prisoners. At the time, we were calling it enhanced interrogation, but that’s a phrase I don’t use anymore. Stress positions, slaps to the face and sleep deprivation were an outrage to the personal dignity of Iraqi prisoners. We humiliated and degraded them, and ourselves.

Ferdinand and I spent the early months of 2004 implementing the country’s interrogation program, we struggled to contain the growing sense that we had shocked our consciences and stained our souls. Our interrogations used approved techniques. We filed paperwork, followed guidelines and obeyed the rules. But with every prisoner forced up against a wall, or made to stand naked in a cold cell, or prevented from falling asleep for significant periods of time, we felt less and less like decent men. And we felt less and less like Americans.

10 replies

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Highlight:

Owning Up to Torture (Original Post) KamaAina Mar 2016 OP

America forced millions into slave labor, we don't have this sparkling image that some pretend Rex Mar 2016 #1

This needs to be said and heard a LOT more gratuitous Mar 2016 #2

Trump wants to *strengthen* the law OnyxCollie Mar 2016 #3

Many people dismiss the negative consequences of torture... Wounded Bear Mar 2016 #4

Accountability noretreatnosurrender Mar 2016 #5

You want to own up to torturing people? Do it behind bars where you belong. Solly Mack Mar 2016 #6

+1,000 malaise Mar 2016 #7

I take him at his word that he struggles because of his crimes but Solly Mack Mar 2016 #10

I would rather see Cheney et al. behind bars KamaAina Mar 2016 #8

I want them all behind bars. Solly Mack Mar 2016 #9

Rex

(65,616 posts)

1. America forced millions into slave labor, we don't have this sparkling image that some pretend

Reply to KamaAina (Original post)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:18 PM

Mar 2016

we do. Glad to read they felt their humanity slipping away...so many don't give it a single thought. Torture has always been known to be unreliable, so the real question is why do it?

You are much more likely to get the truth if you brainwash someone...torture just means they say whatever you want to hear after you cross their pain threshold.

Bush and Cheney and Rummy sure as hell loved to torture people. I guess they are the modern standard bearers.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)

2. This needs to be said and heard a LOT more

Reply to KamaAina (Original post)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:32 PM

Mar 2016

I would submit, however, that the humiliation and degradation was all in one direction, and it wasn't at the prisoners.

It is devoutly to be wished that our nation would look backwards to the past and punish these crimes against humanity, because we can't look forward to the future until we do. We will continue to pay in myriad and untold ways while the perpetrators, architects, and authors of these crimes go unpunished.

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)

3. Trump wants to *strengthen* the law

Reply to KamaAina (Original post)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:35 PM

Mar 2016

to make waterboarding easier.

Har har har.

Wounded Bear

(58,571 posts)

4. Many people dismiss the negative consequences of torture...

Reply to KamaAina (Original post)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:37 PM

Mar 2016

on the perpetrators and on those who perform the actions. This person has PTSD, no doubt.

Would that Cheney and Bush and their ilk could feel just a small part of that. But they don't. Like Trump, there is no empathy there for those they destroy.

noretreatnosurrender

(1,890 posts)

5. Accountability

Reply to KamaAina (Original post)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:53 PM

Mar 2016

for torture is a MUST. That it has not already happened is a national disgrace.

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)

6. You want to own up to torturing people? Do it behind bars where you belong.

Reply to KamaAina (Original post)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:15 PM

Mar 2016

I’ve been speaking publicly since 2007 about my time as an interrogator

I seriously hope no one is paying a war criminal to tell other people not to become war criminals.

I'm sorry. Sure, he's got a good message - Torture is wrong. But if this is supposed to be a case of speaking from experience as an appeal from an authority on the subject, then this is also a case of his words carrying more weight if those words were spoken behind prison walls - where he belongs.

...we struggled to contain the growing sense that we had shocked our consciences and stained our souls. Our interrogations used approved techniques. We filed paperwork, followed guidelines and obeyed the rules

What is that but another way of saying "I was just following orders"?

"...men like Ferdinand and me will be forced to shoulder the consequences." AND "...something that didn’t force us to set aside our humanity in order to go to work."

They were forced? They were contractors who willingly took the job.

Fair, in other articles over the years, has called his nightmares and depression a "fitting punishment" for his war crimes. He has written a book called "Consequences" where restates the same.

Owning up to torture? Not in America. Until there are prosecutions and convictions for torture, America (and Americans) isn't owning up to anything.