Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:07 PM Aug 2016

Ireland Begins Arresting Top Bankers Responsible For 2008 Crash

http://yournewswire.com/ireland-begins-arresting-top-bankers-responsible-for-2008-crash/

Ireland are following in Iceland’s footsteps by jailing its top bankers responsible for the 2008 financial crash.

Following from last year’s mass incarceration of 26 bankers in Iceland, Ireland is going to prosecute the 2005-2008 CEO of Anglo Irish Bank, David Drumm, on 33 criminal charges....

These include two charges of conspiracy to defraud and false accounting relating to €7.2 billion in deposits placed in Anglo Irish Bank accounts by the then Irish Life and Permanent, between March and September 2008.

16 of the 33 charges relate to unlawfully authorizing billions in loans (to be invested back into Anglo Irish Bank) to 16 wealthy investors, in a bid to artificially prop up Anglo Irish Bank’s share price before its December 2008 collapse. Each of the 33 offenses carries a 5 or 10 year jail term, except for a single count of conspiracy to defraud, which has a maximum penalty of an “unlimited term of imprisonment” under Irish law.


31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Ireland Begins Arresting Top Bankers Responsible For 2008 Crash (Original Post) KamaAina Aug 2016 OP
Pity we won't do it here. dhol82 Aug 2016 #1
Can't prosecute here. It was all Legal AllTooEasy Aug 2016 #19
Phooey dhol82 Aug 2016 #23
Isn't there some kind of racketeering charge that would be possible? lostnfound Aug 2016 #26
Respectfully, but strongly, disagree . . FairWinds Aug 2016 #29
Here's the problem... AllTooEasy Aug 2016 #31
What took so long? saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #2
Our laws in Ireland weren't strong enough when it comes to white collar crime, and some of the OnDoutside Aug 2016 #6
Thank you for the comment. saidsimplesimon Aug 2016 #8
They stuck at it in these cases at least, but there are plenty others who got away it. The OnDoutside Aug 2016 #21
Yes, wonder what the statute of limitations is treestar Aug 2016 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author MichiganVote Aug 2016 #3
You mean the US under Obama. kristopher Aug 2016 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author MichiganVote Aug 2016 #13
Slightly out of date (from April); Drumm still awaits trial, but others were convicted recently muriel_volestrangler Aug 2016 #4
The U.S. mainstream media PatSeg Aug 2016 #10
Drummer may get 5 years, and out in 3, if convicted. 3 of his colleagues are already in jail OnDoutside Aug 2016 #5
At least he is doing time FreakinDJ Aug 2016 #11
If you have time, have a listen to these tapes which were eventually uncovered OnDoutside Aug 2016 #7
This kind of thing will never ever happen here davidn3600 Aug 2016 #12
Actually that is not true. Hundreds of people went to jail for the S&L and other financial frauds still_one Aug 2016 #17
Over here they only went after those who flaunted their wealth in front of the public, or OnDoutside Aug 2016 #22
THIS is what we should aspire to... RazBerryBeret Aug 2016 #14
If only German authorities would take a close look at Deutsche Bank, Snarkoleptic Aug 2016 #15
Can I buy them a plane ticket to come here and do it? lindysalsagal Aug 2016 #16
and yet, in this country, the bankers get trillion dollar bailouts. niyad Aug 2016 #18
Really, American Exceptionalism But Not The Good Kind colsohlibgal Aug 2016 #20
And bonuses. Nt lostnfound Aug 2016 #27
yes, nearly forgot about those. niyad Aug 2016 #28
bravo, eggsclent . allan01 Aug 2016 #24
Something that will NEVER happen in good old USofA. SammyWinstonJack Aug 2016 #30

AllTooEasy

(1,260 posts)
19. Can't prosecute here. It was all Legal
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 10:05 PM
Aug 2016

Last edited Tue Aug 23, 2016, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)

...which is the real tragedy! What charges are you going to bring up? Following the rules, or lack there off, after the massive Wall St deregulations during the previous decade?

Watch the movie "The Big Short" - twice. It's a little hard to follow. You're going to pause the video several times and say "WTF?", "Really?", "Huh?". Eventually, you'll realize that the mortgage securities, CBOs, junk bonds, bullish propaganda, and faulty ratings were all LEGAL at that time.

Worst of all, most of it is still legal! They could do it again on an ignorant population and nobody would be legally subject to charges. Sorry to ruin your day, but Knowledge is Grief.

dhol82

(9,351 posts)
23. Phooey
Tue Aug 23, 2016, 06:57 AM
Aug 2016


Saw The Big Short and spent most of the movie with my mouth hanging open and my blood pressure going up.

lostnfound

(16,138 posts)
26. Isn't there some kind of racketeering charge that would be possible?
Tue Aug 23, 2016, 09:31 AM
Aug 2016

Where Elliott Ness when we need him?

 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
29. Respectfully, but strongly, disagree . .
Tue Aug 23, 2016, 12:04 PM
Aug 2016

Falsifying loan docs is not legal.

Knowingly selling toxic paper (bundled bad loans) is not legal.

And there is much more . .

When Obama said it was legal, he was wrong - and he probably knew it.

AllTooEasy

(1,260 posts)
31. Here's the problem...
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 05:15 PM
Aug 2016

The falsifying of loan documents was largely done by loan applicants. The Big Short demonstrated that. The DOJ will only spend resources on the big crooks like bankers. Although you could make the argument that lenders should have realized that "Donald Duck" wasn't a real person.

The "Knowingly" part is hard to prove, and it's a civil matter. The buyer would have to sue or press charges. After the finger pointing finishes, few people that should have known will toss away their reputation and admit that they were complete idiots.

Lastly, the crooks could just argue that the info detailing an impending collapse was "freely" available. That was one of the 1st points made in the Big Short. Nobody looked. Defendants will argue "Some mortgage security investors read the data, figured it out, and made billions...why didn't you?"

I don't agree that any of this is ethical, but criminal and ethical are two different things. A law has to exist against criminal behavior, and criminal behavior must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Good Luck!

OnDoutside

(19,906 posts)
6. Our laws in Ireland weren't strong enough when it comes to white collar crime, and some of the
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:22 PM
Aug 2016

critical evidence didn't surface immediately.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
8. Thank you for the comment.
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:39 PM
Aug 2016

It is extremely difficult to obtain evidence when the suspect has money and legal connections. I am very proud of the Irish for doing a better job in making the effort.

As you know, the US had many laws on the books but failed to prosecute those who tanked our economy. They are still going strong and collecting huge bonus money at taxpayer expense.

OnDoutside

(19,906 posts)
21. They stuck at it in these cases at least, but there are plenty others who got away it. The
Tue Aug 23, 2016, 05:43 AM
Aug 2016

problem here is that many of the ordinary citizens got blown out of it (the usual story of over extending and being hounded by the banks), and they can't (will probably never) move on. So there's a bitterness that remains today, just like in the US. They're angry, but not sure what they are angry at. I believe for their own mental health, they need to move on, and it helps that finally banks are starting to write offs large portions of debt, to bring personal debt down to a sustainable level.

Funnily enough, the US was pointed to by the Irish people at how it should be done....examples like the rapid arrest, trial and conviction of Bernie Madoff, but I guess that was the rich getting back at someone who fleeced them.

Anglo Irish Bank which employed Drumm and the 3 others, was central actor in the bursting of the bubble for us. Their Chairman Seanie Fitzpatrick is also being tried, http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0509/787249-fitzpatrick/

A lot of the developers slipped off to the UK where bankruptcy was only 12 months (it was previously 12 years in Ireland), having put a lot of their assets in to the name of their wife/kids. That has driven a lot of people mental as well.

Response to KamaAina (Original post)

Response to kristopher (Reply #9)

muriel_volestrangler

(101,151 posts)
4. Slightly out of date (from April); Drumm still awaits trial, but others were convicted recently
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:20 PM
Aug 2016

That story comes from sources like http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35800561 and http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-anglo-ceo-david-drumm-to-face-two-trials-over-alleged-offences-during-time-at-bank-34610281.html . But a few weeks ago, we had:

Anglo trial: Three ex-bankers jailed over €7bn fraud
Willie McAteer given 3.5-year term; Denis Casey two years, nine months; John Bowe two years

Last June, a jury at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court convicted Bowe (52) and McAteer (65), and the former Group Chief Executive of Irish Life and Permanent plc (ILP), Casey (56) of conspiring to make Anglo’s books look €7.2 billion healthier than they actually were.

The three men were involved in setting up a circular scheme of billion euro transactions where Anglo moved money to ILP and ILP sent the money back, via their assurance firm Irish Life Assurance, to Anglo.

The scheme was designed so that the deposits came from the assurance company and would be treated as customer deposits, which are considered a better measure of a bank’s strength than inter-bank loans.

Handing down the sentences after the longest running criminal trial in Irish history, judge Martin Nolan said the transactions at the heart of the case were “dishonest, deceitful and corrupt”, adding: “There is no other way of describing it.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/anglo-trial-three-ex-bankers-jailed-over-7bn-fraud-1.2738637

PatSeg

(46,794 posts)
10. The U.S. mainstream media
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:49 PM
Aug 2016

really sucks. This should have been a big story, but I don't recall hearing anything about it. Of course, we got Trump 24/7.

OnDoutside

(19,906 posts)
5. Drummer may get 5 years, and out in 3, if convicted. 3 of his colleagues are already in jail
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 07:20 PM
Aug 2016
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/former-bankers-sentenced-to-jail-over-anglo-fraud-scheme-1.2739699

Three former bankers were in Mountjoy Prison in Dublin last night after receiving jail sentences for their roles in a €7 billion fraud committed at the height of the banking crisis in 2008.

Judge Martin Nolan said the senior executives had taken part in a “dishonest, deceitful and corrupt” scheme to make Anglo Irish Bank’s finances look stronger than they were.

Former Anglo executive Willie McAteer (65) was sentenced to 3½ years while his ex-colleague John Bowe (52) received a two-year term. Denis Casey (56), the former group chief executive of Irish Life and Permanent, was jailed for two years and nine months.


Drumm will get more because he fled to the US and recovered phone conversations showed he was up to his neck in it.
 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
12. This kind of thing will never ever happen here
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 08:00 PM
Aug 2016

In America, once you reach a certain wealth or social status, you become too big to jail.

still_one

(91,947 posts)
17. Actually that is not true. Hundreds of people went to jail for the S&L and other financial frauds
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 08:55 PM
Aug 2016

in the 80s.

This article presents why that didn't happen in 2008:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/magazine/only-one-top-banker-jail-financial-crisis.html

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
15. If only German authorities would take a close look at Deutsche Bank,
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 08:44 PM
Aug 2016

the lid would really come off this debacle. Here in the US, Goldman Sachs, Chase, Bank of America (which absorbed Countrywide), and others should be held to account.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
20. Really, American Exceptionalism But Not The Good Kind
Mon Aug 22, 2016, 11:46 PM
Aug 2016

Yep, instead of throwing the book at them we showered them with big cash. And the ratings agencies who gave those toxic investment bundles AAA ratings skated too.

Again, the documentary film "Inside Job" goes into all this, contrasting what Iceland did to what we did. It also points out some illuminating conflicts of interest here.

SammyWinstonJack

(44,129 posts)
30. Something that will NEVER happen in good old USofA.
Tue Aug 23, 2016, 01:45 PM
Aug 2016
We reward our banksters with bailouts and they in turn pay out and receive huge bonuses. America...Fuck Yeah!

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Ireland Begins Arresting ...