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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIreland Begins Arresting Top Bankers Responsible For 2008 Crash
http://yournewswire.com/ireland-begins-arresting-top-bankers-responsible-for-2008-crash/Following from last years mass incarceration of 26 bankers in Iceland, Ireland is going to prosecute the 2005-2008 CEO of Anglo Irish Bank, David Drumm, on 33 criminal charges....
These include two charges of conspiracy to defraud and false accounting relating to 7.2 billion in deposits placed in Anglo Irish Bank accounts by the then Irish Life and Permanent, between March and September 2008.
16 of the 33 charges relate to unlawfully authorizing billions in loans (to be invested back into Anglo Irish Bank) to 16 wealthy investors, in a bid to artificially prop up Anglo Irish Banks share price before its December 2008 collapse. Each of the 33 offenses carries a 5 or 10 year jail term, except for a single count of conspiracy to defraud, which has a maximum penalty of an unlimited term of imprisonment under Irish law.
dhol82
(9,351 posts)AllTooEasy
(1,260 posts)Last edited Tue Aug 23, 2016, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)
...which is the real tragedy! What charges are you going to bring up? Following the rules, or lack there off, after the massive Wall St deregulations during the previous decade?
Watch the movie "The Big Short" - twice. It's a little hard to follow. You're going to pause the video several times and say "WTF?", "Really?", "Huh?". Eventually, you'll realize that the mortgage securities, CBOs, junk bonds, bullish propaganda, and faulty ratings were all LEGAL at that time.
Worst of all, most of it is still legal! They could do it again on an ignorant population and nobody would be legally subject to charges. Sorry to ruin your day, but Knowledge is Grief.
Saw The Big Short and spent most of the movie with my mouth hanging open and my blood pressure going up.
lostnfound
(16,138 posts)Where Elliott Ness when we need him?
FairWinds
(1,717 posts)Falsifying loan docs is not legal.
Knowingly selling toxic paper (bundled bad loans) is not legal.
And there is much more . .
When Obama said it was legal, he was wrong - and he probably knew it.
AllTooEasy
(1,260 posts)The falsifying of loan documents was largely done by loan applicants. The Big Short demonstrated that. The DOJ will only spend resources on the big crooks like bankers. Although you could make the argument that lenders should have realized that "Donald Duck" wasn't a real person.
The "Knowingly" part is hard to prove, and it's a civil matter. The buyer would have to sue or press charges. After the finger pointing finishes, few people that should have known will toss away their reputation and admit that they were complete idiots.
Lastly, the crooks could just argue that the info detailing an impending collapse was "freely" available. That was one of the 1st points made in the Big Short. Nobody looked. Defendants will argue "Some mortgage security investors read the data, figured it out, and made billions...why didn't you?"
I don't agree that any of this is ethical, but criminal and ethical are two different things. A law has to exist against criminal behavior, and criminal behavior must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Good Luck!
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)We shall see if he is convicted and receives a just punishment.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)critical evidence didn't surface immediately.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)It is extremely difficult to obtain evidence when the suspect has money and legal connections. I am very proud of the Irish for doing a better job in making the effort.
As you know, the US had many laws on the books but failed to prosecute those who tanked our economy. They are still going strong and collecting huge bonus money at taxpayer expense.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)problem here is that many of the ordinary citizens got blown out of it (the usual story of over extending and being hounded by the banks), and they can't (will probably never) move on. So there's a bitterness that remains today, just like in the US. They're angry, but not sure what they are angry at. I believe for their own mental health, they need to move on, and it helps that finally banks are starting to write offs large portions of debt, to bring personal debt down to a sustainable level.
Funnily enough, the US was pointed to by the Irish people at how it should be done....examples like the rapid arrest, trial and conviction of Bernie Madoff, but I guess that was the rich getting back at someone who fleeced them.
Anglo Irish Bank which employed Drumm and the 3 others, was central actor in the bursting of the bubble for us. Their Chairman Seanie Fitzpatrick is also being tried, http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0509/787249-fitzpatrick/
A lot of the developers slipped off to the UK where bankruptcy was only 12 months (it was previously 12 years in Ireland), having put a lot of their assets in to the name of their wife/kids. That has driven a lot of people mental as well.
treestar
(82,383 posts)or if there is any
Response to KamaAina (Original post)
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kristopher
(29,798 posts)It was his watch that had responsibility for pressing prosecution.
Response to kristopher (Reply #9)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,151 posts)That story comes from sources like http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35800561 and http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/former-anglo-ceo-david-drumm-to-face-two-trials-over-alleged-offences-during-time-at-bank-34610281.html . But a few weeks ago, we had:
Willie McAteer given 3.5-year term; Denis Casey two years, nine months; John Bowe two years
Last June, a jury at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court convicted Bowe (52) and McAteer (65), and the former Group Chief Executive of Irish Life and Permanent plc (ILP), Casey (56) of conspiring to make Anglos books look 7.2 billion healthier than they actually were.
The three men were involved in setting up a circular scheme of billion euro transactions where Anglo moved money to ILP and ILP sent the money back, via their assurance firm Irish Life Assurance, to Anglo.
The scheme was designed so that the deposits came from the assurance company and would be treated as customer deposits, which are considered a better measure of a banks strength than inter-bank loans.
Handing down the sentences after the longest running criminal trial in Irish history, judge Martin Nolan said the transactions at the heart of the case were dishonest, deceitful and corrupt, adding: There is no other way of describing it.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/anglo-trial-three-ex-bankers-jailed-over-7bn-fraud-1.2738637
PatSeg
(46,794 posts)really sucks. This should have been a big story, but I don't recall hearing anything about it. Of course, we got Trump 24/7.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)Three former bankers were in Mountjoy Prison in Dublin last night after receiving jail sentences for their roles in a 7 billion fraud committed at the height of the banking crisis in 2008.
Judge Martin Nolan said the senior executives had taken part in a dishonest, deceitful and corrupt scheme to make Anglo Irish Banks finances look stronger than they were.
Former Anglo executive Willie McAteer (65) was sentenced to 3½ years while his ex-colleague John Bowe (52) received a two-year term. Denis Casey (56), the former group chief executive of Irish Life and Permanent, was jailed for two years and nine months.
Drumm will get more because he fled to the US and recovered phone conversations showed he was up to his neck in it.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)The Banksters here got a bonus
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)It features the guys just jailed, and Drumm. This is the smug attitude in the Financial World
http://www.newstalk.com/More-Anglo-tapes-released-by-newspaper
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo/
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)In America, once you reach a certain wealth or social status, you become too big to jail.
still_one
(91,947 posts)in the 80s.
This article presents why that didn't happen in 2008:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/magazine/only-one-top-banker-jail-financial-crisis.html
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)when those tapes were released. That pressure forced the authorities to act.
Here's another
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Dunne_(businessman)
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/high-court-grants-extension-to-sean-dunne-s-bankruptcy-1.2718263
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)but it would never happen here.
Snarkoleptic
(5,995 posts)the lid would really come off this debacle. Here in the US, Goldman Sachs, Chase, Bank of America (which absorbed Countrywide), and others should be held to account.
lindysalsagal
(20,440 posts)niyad
(112,434 posts)colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Yep, instead of throwing the book at them we showered them with big cash. And the ratings agencies who gave those toxic investment bundles AAA ratings skated too.
Again, the documentary film "Inside Job" goes into all this, contrasting what Iceland did to what we did. It also points out some illuminating conflicts of interest here.
lostnfound
(16,138 posts)niyad
(112,434 posts)allan01
(1,950 posts)not all banks here were involved with that mess. just the too big to fail banks