Criminy...

The death penalty would have prevented this from happening, or happening again?

But some humans are just rabid pieces of shit that don't even deserve a grave. Just like when you have a bunch of roosters and one of them continually pecks the hens and doesn't get along with the flock. They end up in the stew pot....

Picture of the nasty POS

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=480

... so likely not.

Appropriate punishment is appropriate.



Careful with those echoes...

Why makes your zeal for retaliatory killing morally superior to the horrific crimes that they committed?

... After helping drop hell fire missiles on a herd of Taliban.

The world is better off.

The Progressive mind at work.

Nor with premeditated vengeance dressed up in millennia-old tribal customs.

Why do you think that the state is justified in killing someone who has been rendered harmless?

... and goes to prison for 5 years, the singular purpose of that time served is not only to remove the threat of robbery from the streets for a certain amount of time.

It is also a punishment for a crime committed. That's not blood-lust or a desire to see someone suffer. It's justice for an offense.

Cases like this are the same way.

I'm not suggesting that we flay, crucify or torture to death. I am saying that the price for taking an innocent life in such a horrific way is your own.

It's been laid out simply and clearly.

You choose to believe that what I'm telling you is not what I really mean and so how could you ever be convinced if you are just going to call anyone who disagrees with you a bloodthirsty liar?

I'm not an asshole. Presented with a convincing argument, I will revise my views, and have done so many times on DU.

But your argument so far (in this thread and elsewhere, despite your attempts to dress it up) is an appeal to Bronze Age tribal customs. As a modern Progressive, I need something more compelling than millennia-old bloodlust to persuade me.

I'm good if you believe me or not or if you think that my belief that a quick painless death is the right price to pay for horribly taking an innocent life translates to 'deuteronomy' or 'blood lust'.

If you want to read the same thing again, refresh your page.

Yes, sometimes it is really that simple.

Many many convicted killers have killed again either in prison or after having escaped or been released or paroled. Hell, Kenneth McDuff alone accounted for more than likely a dozen, although he confessed to "only" seven. And that was after they had already sentenced him to death once. There is not one single option, not supermax or LWP or solitary or asylums or rehabilitation, which can claim the one attribute that makes execution useful. There has never, ever, been an executed criminal who has killed again.


Should these people be executed? Dunno. To me it is the future risk rather than the splashy horrors of the crime itself which should determine that. At first and scant reading it is the no remorse part rather than the brutality which would raise the issue here. Killing someone however horrifically in a fit of rage or chemical influence or even for calculated gain may not warrant the DP as all those causes can be ameliorated, but killing because you just want to, enjoy it, and don't have a moment's concern for the victim before or after? That's a big flashing sign that doing it again is not a bad bet, and that's why we have to end some such lives before they end more innocent ones. When they say things like "killing a woman is like killing a chicken. They both squawk." it's not a tough call. Some people really do just need to have absolutely no chance of ever killing again, and to date there's only one way we can be sure.

It is not an argument for capital punishment.

The fact that a convicted prisoner remains a danger while incarcerated means that stricter incarceration is required. Otherwise you're arguing that we should execute them because it's more convenient for us.

You could severely lobotomize them or cut off their arms and legs.

The part you're also missing is there's also no way to be sure the person you would have the state kill on your behalf is actually guilty. The death penalty also guarantees innocent people will be put to death, but I guess those victims just don't count for much in your book so long as you get your pound of flesh.

There are all kinds of wonderful sci-fi kiddy fantasies about how we could absolutely prevent recidivism but until we can freeze people in carbonite or develop stasis fields the problem is they either don't work or are so cruel that they would be laughed out of any judicial review. Lobotomies? Jesus Christ what person who hadn't already had one would choose that over a quick death, even if we had 5 sadists on the Supreme Court who would condone the choice? Might as well say we could amputate all four limbs and let the little Prince Randians live happily ever after. Sure we could build solitary inescapable prisons far below heavily mined concrete bunkers with sustenance dropped through chutes too small to permit hope of escape. Again, which court would allow it? Which convict would choose it?

As far as innocent lives go, that is supreme hypocrisy from DP opponents. Have there been innoent convicts executed? Quite possibly. Probably even. No definitive proof has been presented however. Find me 8 such and then I'll move on to another of the hundreds of convicted killers who have killed again when execution would have prevented those innocent lives been lost - I've already given you McDuff's lowball 7. These victims of repeat convicted killers are almost always more innocent and killed by far more brutal loss of "pounds of flesh" than those executed by the state. I care about real, proven, definitively innocent (it's worth pointing out 2/3 of death row inmates are repeat felons and one in 12 a repeat murderer prior to their final sentence), torturously slaughtered loss of life more than I do the hand-wringing hypotheticals of those who might be potentially killed after due process and under controlled conditions. Why don't you?

Kudos for making it a numbers game between innocent people murdered by the state on your behalf vs innocent people murdered by criminals.

publicly, instead of dragging it out for 20 - 30 years. I support the Death Penalty, but I also support a moritorium on older cases, especially where the accused/convicted has maintained their innocence the whole time, and there were no witnesses, actual evidence or DNA. Project Innocence has helped a lot of people wrongly convicted over the years, but many have slipped through the cracks, too. ONE wrongly convicted and executed person is one too many! However......

With the advanced technology that we possess today though, and there is a clear cut, slam-dunk case, especially if there is a confession and DNA, or video evidence, there's no need to grant an automatic appeal, question their mental status or anything else. In a case this horrendous, and involving a child, they have already proven themselves unfit for ANY society. Period. Just like the young guy a couple of years ago who raped & murdered an 80 year old woman because, as he confessed to the investigating Officers, he "was bored, and didn't have anything better to do at the time"....

Judge: "You have been found guilty through DNA, along with your own confession & testimony. You are hereby sentenced to death, which will be carried out at Noon tomorrow. You will be escorted to a holding cell, where you will remain until your sentence is carried out. That is all"....

I know that this is an unpopular stance among Liberals, but I stand by it anyways.... We are ALL entitled to our own opinions and beliefs, and everyone is entitled to NOT share our opinions and beliefs based on their own morality or sense of right & wrong.

Peace,

Ghost

Although some days it is difficult to maintain an anti-death penalty belief.

They have the death penalty in California, Texas, Florida, etc... yet heinous crimes - worse that this one (as if it were possible) - still happen.

Having said that my heart goes out to that child and hope the people responsible never see the light of day again.

I don't think folks who would do something like this would hold off because of the fear of the death penalty.

I just think it's an appropriate punishment.

It's about letting us all feel better at least knowing the scumbags are dead. How would you feel about the scumbags in the OP getting 3 hots and a cot for the rest of their natural lives? Every night they'll fantasize about this act as they fall asleep. You think they'll regret it, or feel bad? That would require them to have a conscience to begin with. People who do stuff like this are sociopaths. They literally see nothing wrong with doing whatever they want to other humans.

It diminishes our effectiveness to stop violent crime when the system we use still operates under the premise of an eye for eye.

isn't the scumbag that committed the crime (perhaps wasn't a scumbag at all)?

Despite what we see on tv, modern forensics is not fool proof and DNA is not left at every crime.

And I hate to reduce the issue to funds, but as a taxpayer the DP is so much more expensive to implement. Life in prison w/o parole seems, in many ways, a harsher punishment and it is less expensive. Let the other inmates decide what to do with these psychos, and you better believe they will. In the meantime, throw away the fucking key on these POS's.

Nothing like a little Deuteronomy to inform the modern Progressive mind.

I'm ok with the basic rule of " The drugging, raping, murdering and dismembering of children will result in the loss of your own life"

I've seen you on these "let's kill 'em" threads many times before, and I know that you're hardly so discriminating in deciding who deserves killing. In fact, you're ok with lots of state-enforced killing, as long as you can rationalize it to your own satisfaction.

The current case is monstrous in the extreme. But DU has had many threads calling for the execution of rapists, elder-abusers, accused pedophiles, dog abusers, and so on, so let's not pretend that you or any other pro-execution Progressive truly maintains any sort of righteous standard when cheering at the gallows.

I've also seen enough of your ramblings to understand that when you deteriorate to subject-line-only replies, you've realized that your argument has no merit, and you've opted to quit while pretending to have scored some sort of rhetorical point.

You'll now either post some sort of explanation to tell me that I'm wrong, you'll post another subject line in an attempt at pithiness, or you won't reply at all.

In any case, my point is confirmed.

Declaring victory if a response is

a) Brief
b) In disagreement with your point of view
c) Not answered in a timely manner (in addition to the dozen other back and forth posts already made)

Super duper convenient that virtually any response will reinforce your own beliefs (even before you hear the what is said.)

Subject-line responders aren't brief; they're lazy. And if they can't be bothered to post a more thoughtful reply, then why should I be bothered to provide a more thorough response?

... gets exactly the answer it deserves.

Meanwhile, enjoy your high-minded Progressive bloodlust.

At least you're consistent.

... Or common colloquial sayings.

I'm pretty sure it's death, based on your endless pro-capital punishment rationalizations.

The death penalty is for vengeance, to satisfy blood thirst aroused by a vicious crime.

I'd like to think humanity can rise above that.

IMO, we diminish our humanity by simply incarcerating heinousness murderers - like a caged animal...

Less so if it's been executed in the name of state-sanctioned bloodtlust.

poor poor little girl, i can't stop crying.

Just take em out back and put a. 22 in their head and donate their bodies to science.

Her bf and his brother to rape and beat her 5 month old to death. How she's being let out is beyond me (she participated in some of th abuse).

There is something very wrong with people who hurt children. They should never be let out. Unless by let out we mean into the desert with no food or water. In summer.

Do you know why the mother was given a lesser sentence than the other two? I see no mention of that in the article.

NM didn't have strict laws connected to child abuse in regards time off for good behaviour. She was sentenced to 27 is being spring early for good behaviour. I guess abusing her baby and allowing others to kill her baby isn't considered bad enough. Being a good prisoner means she can run free again.

She is being held on a one million dollar cash only bond.

I wonder what the rest of her life has been like.
RIP Sweet Angel...

You may well be absolutely correct, but wishing for or believing in a better afterlife for a child who has suffered like this poor little girl seems like a pretty benign thing to do.

Of course, it'd be one thing if the person who believes were trying to ram it down a non-believer's throat, or trying to get their private religious beliefs to affect public policy, but during times of sorrow or grief I'd think it'd be kinder to just let it go.

It's said that misery loves company. What better to do than take hope from those who do have it. I really can't think of any other reason why atheists like to trash the beliefs of others in times of grief.

I see it all the time too. I'll be reading the story about that 10 year old who died on the water slide and some comment will be like "at least he's in a better place now", and then sure enough some militant nonbeliever comes in shouting "no, he's dead and rotting in the ground."

If we get to choose, I'd go with the party/battle cycle of Valhalla...

I never understood the appeal of being an eternal sycophant at God's right toe....

Moreso, too bad you are totally incapable of recognizing an act based out of love. Because, your "truth" reigns supreme. People like you give agnostics and atheists a bad name. You are no different than the evangelists for their savior.

Not a thing to be done for her now. Better this poor little girl had never been born. Just awful.

There are lot of DUers who think meth should be legal, along with heroin, coke, PCP etc.

It should be easier for people to get their fix, that will help the kids, right?

And heroin is reasonably safe if you know the purity and strength. (not saying using heroin is a good thing).

I believe meth does actually lead to pharmacological violence. The users get all strung out staying up for several days at a time, and then they start to get paranoid/violent/hallucinate/etc. Reefer madness was bs, but METH actually can lead to depraved and violent behavior.

It can be virtually indistinguishable from paranoid schizophrenia.

including severe child abuse, rape and murder. One effect of alcohol use is that it lowers inhibitions, which leads some people to commit absolutely horrific crimes. Knowing this, I ask you seriously: Do you think alcohol should be illegal?

Take 10 alcohol users vs 10 meth users. How MANY of the alcohol users will turn into depraved nutjobs vs the meth users? Lots of functional people drink alcohol. Lots of functional people smoke weed. How many functional people are casual meth enthusiasts?

Awful human being she is.

choked then dismembered . Yes meth and awful people

the other woman, Kelly, had only been out of jail for four days and had sexually assaulted a woman while in jail. The mother knew the boyfriend for a month - met him on a dating site.

and the women a big scar, the second woman hit them both with an iron . What kind of violent and deranged meth hell was that poor girl in ? Frightening even to think

Exists in some people is staggering.
And IM the one in counseling all the time?!
I just don't get it.

People who did this.

who kill little children.
I rarely agree with imposing the death penalty. I believe it should be used rarely. For me, this case warrants it.

I personally believe the death penalty is overused, but cases like this are the embodiment of why it should be left on the table. It's an insult to the memory of the victim to let these ghoulish freaks continue breathing for another 30-40 years.

Death penalty for some dude who kills a guy in a robbery gone bad? No.
Death penalty for crimes which are so horrific they could have come out of a horror movie? Yes.

I'm insulted to even be sharing oxygen with such mentally warped pieces of garbage. I'm honestly ashamed to even be a part of the same species as them. Like what is this? I don't even.. What? How does somebody get so twisted that they even consider doing such things? And the mother allowed it all to happen willingly? This is another one of those 'real life horror movie' cases that reminds us all about the existence of true evil. There's no cure for these people. They're 'defective' and need to be returned to sender.

do something so sick to an innocent child. They are lower than scum and they don't deserve to live.

On the day she was going to celebrate her 10th birthday, she was found dead in her family's apartment by Albuquerque police officers, her dismembered remains wrapped in a burning blanket.
The two have facial injuries are because the second women hit them with an iron

http://abc7chicago.com/news/police-mother-2-others-injected-girl-with-meth-before-raping-killing-her/1484562/

It should read - WARNING: Story contains details that are disturbing

Hard drugs can turn garden-variety losers into monsters.

No protection from the general population.

They will all wish they were dead.

they will be the bottom scum and rightly so

Killing them reduces us to their despicable level.

and I want them to live a long time there, sobered up and hearing the screams of that little girl when the lights go out for the rest of their wasted, rotten lives.

Dahmer didn't...and they won't either.

The murderers will be gunning for them, like big game hunters go for their "trophies".

Works for me.

Can't remember where, but about 50 or so inmates absolutely beat the SO to a pulp...literally near hamburger.

Their punishment the next day was Krispy Kremes, chocolate milk and magazines.

Nope.
Don't believe that at all.
Sorry.

Segregation or high-risk pod

Let them rot forever, death would be a sweat release for them. Make them suffer, I made the mistake of going to the link and looking at that poor child.

Under the prison in a dungeon with no light.

and all of us were looking at each other and saying thank the powers that be that we're not on that case.

I hope these utterly worthless shitbags plead guilty. I don't want to see this one go to trial.

This happens. I'll vote for abolition if I can have 30 minutes alone with these people.

That poor girl.

It angers me and makes me feel so powerless in helping these kids.

But all this bickering on DP or not is pointless. The reality is that these assholes are not going to be put into general population for their safety. They are going into isolation where after a couple months, they are going to WISH they were dead. Isolation is a cruel, CRUEL form of punishment that we use for a host of different reasons.

belief. That poor child, it totally breaks the heart.

how bad it was there

There sure are a lot of people who use drugs that don't rape, murder, and dismember. These are some sick, sick individuals. I can't even begin to understand.

I hope all three of them spend the rest of their days in prison, and receive extensive therapy to find out why on earth this happened.