The pope does or says one thing, and then his handlers and spinmeisters walk it back, allowing (they hope) everyone to see exactly what they need to in the whole episode, depending on where they look. Excellent PR tactics.

What the pope said to her was supportive of her position, however, and that position is not complicated at all. She doesn't believe that same-sex couples should be allowed to legally marry. Period. Which is exactly the same un-nuanced, uncompromising position that the pope and his church hold, so the math on this meeting isn't hard. Does any sane person believe he would have met with her if she had been a "conscientious objector" who issued marriage licenses to same-sex couples in defiance of a law that forbade it? Please.

There is no third-party account of what was said by anyone during this "meeting," which the Vatican is hinting heavily was one of those brief-blessing things he does, not a granting of an audience. Popes don't hug people and tell them to "stay strong."

to same sex marriage.

But my point was that there is no record of what the pope said in the purported meeting with Kim Davis. Kim Davis said that he said, "Stay strong." I want proof of that, too. Your wanting to match up what the pope said elsewhere, in a general context, is only suggestive and not proof. And your paraphrasing of a quote ("he tells people to stay strong&quot is not the same thing as the quote itself.

"Stay strong" is the sort of sentimental claptrap you see in clichéd movie dialog and Facebook postings; it is exactly the kind of thing a woman who sees herself as a brave little soldier would make up out of whole cloth, because there is no one who can prove he didn't say it.

for his visit there. Cliched it may be, but the Catholic church uses it, and as people have been pointing out, Francis is not an expert English speaker (his 3rd language at best), so I don't expect him to always avoid cliche. Yes, it's what she said he said; but to dismiss it as out of character for him is based on no evidence.

What the bishops are using as a theme is not the same as a quote of something someone said. I see the cliché as more in character for Kim Davis and her imaginings. It's just too convenient. I will stay skeptical until I see proof.

You haven't yet attempted to give your reasoning for that (does "it's a cliche" count as reasoning? I don't think so). It's up to you to prove your point. Supporters of the pope characterise his message to various people as 'stay strong', but you're saying it's something he wouldn't say.

"I will stay skeptical until I see proof." Is that going to be your attitude to religion overall? I hope so.

from what I am reading, Frank was set up by the local ultra-conservative Bishop who wanted to create a problem for the pope. I don't know his name, but this was obviously a fast one pulled by the bishop.

Very easy solution. Can his ass.

What is there about Kim Davis's position or actions with regards to same-sex marriage that is in any way incongruous with what the pope or the RCC would want? Why should a meeting with this person damage the pope, unless he were part of a phony, disingenuous PR campaign to paint him as far more liberal than he is?

invite 1-4 people to meet the pope. The pope did not know who they were, or why they were selected, it was a courtesy to the local bishop. Or in this case, bishopric. With a K.

I suspect this was an effort at showing up Mr. Pope and his liberal tendencies by selecting Davis. Watch for the bishop to join others in Malta, which is the equivalent of being sent to Nebraska by the FBI.

Only the manufactured appearance of them. His positions on every doctrinal issue are precisely in line with his predecessors and with the current conservative hierarchy.

So again, why would a conservative bishop need to show him up?

I have heard this argument, and I have two thoughts about it:

1) I find it extremely difficult to believe that with all of the people he has at his disposal, a first class loon like Davis would get within a mile of him unless he wanted her there. I am supposed to believe that they managed to punk his handlers, his advance team, his advisers and his security staff? That NO ONE recognized her name and warned him off.

2) If people are going to insist that I believe my first thought, then such gullible fools have no business running the most powerful Christian™ corporation on Earth.

It appears the right really tried to tell us everything but the truth about it.

You'd think the Pope's security people would have looked into her.

She's a RW nut job who is defying court orders. So how does scum like that get on a list for a private audience?

With what the pope has been preaching. Something does not add up. Ultimately, anything the pope does or says has to do with replenishing the ranks of the catholic church...

tolerance, not the approval of such relationships.

Here are some quotes from the pope:


"preserving the family as an institution based on marriage between a man and a woman is not a political cause but a matter of “human ecology”, as “children have the right to grow up in a family with a father and mother capable of creating a suitable environment for the child’s development and emotional maturity”.

"efforts to redefine marriage were a form of “ideological colonisation” resulting from confusing presentations of sexuality and marriage, which threaten to “disfigure God’s plan for Creation”.

http://irishcatholic.ie/article/same-sex-marriage-debate-5

who said that he had worked in the office for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and he alerted to how this happened. Guess who is in charge of that organization?

This guy.

To quote Gomer Pyle -

From November last, Francis was the Keynote speaker, Vatican produced event. Details at link. Tony Perkins of FRC there by invitation.....

This week the Vatican hosted a three-day, international, interreligious colloquium called Humanum, “The Complementarity of Man and Woman: An International Colloquium.” Its goal was to “propose anew the beauty of the relationship between the man and the woman.” Speakers came from nearly two dozen countries and a variety of religious traditions, including Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and Taoists.

The presence of American evangelicals and the LDS Church was particularly notable. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, and Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, each gave speeches, and representatives from the Heritage Foundation and the Family Research Council in Washington attended. President Henry Eyring of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ first presidency spoke and Elder Tom Perry of the LDS’s Quorum of the Twelve also joined. In the United States, this trio of faiths has worked together to stand against the government’s Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate, but it was the first time they were coming together at the Vatican to talk about marriage.
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

So it's not six degrees of separation here, this is a small world of anti gay activists.

released this statement which contradicts her spin. Hey Kimmy Jesus don't like liars.
I would have thought a holy, devout, better-than-all-of-us heathens "Christian" would know that already.

Because remember all those married gay couples the Pope went out of his way to talk to in secret.

Oh...wait.

Why else would he choose to visit with that little pissant? Her views on the only issue which she is known for dovetail perfectly with his.

I like this Pope very much in many ways, but man, was this ever disappointing.

See my post below. I wrote almost identical except maybe I was more graphic with the wording.

Acknowledging her presences is giving her too much credence. She is a fucking hypocrite windbag. I'm surprised he didn't meet with Rush Limbaugh while he was at it. My opinion was that this Pope was slightly more open than previous Popes. It's clear all it was is a put on, a charade, a scam.

I'm not Catholic, nor am I religious, but I did hope we were moving a bit further away from the stone age bullshit. Guess I was wrong.

bullshit. Here it is 2015 and they're still fighting over myths and legends made up thousands of years ago. Incredible. Religion is the bane of civilization.

Kim Davis is an evangelical Protestant, a minor clerk in the backwoods of Kentucky, Nothing, absolutely nothing, qualified her for a meeting with the pope except for her controversial stance in imposing her religious beliefs on all people.

Whether or not Pope Francis was aware of the political repercussions, the meeting itself declared support for Kim Davis. If this was not a statement he wished to make, then he needs to clean house.

This meeting was not arranged by the Vatican but by a bishop appointed by Pope Francis' predecessor. A bishop that Pope Francis has already demoted. This was the disgraced bishop's way to stick it to the Pope on his way out.

to have him meet with someone whose position on same sex marriages is in total agreement with his, and with Catholic doctrine? How can that possibly be an embarassment to him?

The man is a Jesuit for cryin'-out-loud. Not exactly the dumbest people around. Frank knew.

It was "a series of private meetings," all of them very short.

a little bit more and you'll be able to boost Joaquin back to a full hurricane.

What exactly was the reason he allowed a minor county official to be on his guest list in the first place? Fashion tips?

Kim is screwed up. She is a clerk who thinks handling paperwork somehow is like sanctifying marriages or performing/blessing a wedding. She went to jail for holding to some crazy supposed beliefs. So perhaps at best she got the meeting for being a troubled soul and having been a prisoner. Not many go to jail for this.

The Pope did meet prisoners in Pennsylvania.

Of course the Pope and his church have crazy beliefs also that don't align with Jesus's teachings. I think we have to see his church as a business model based on doctrines dating back 2,000 to 6,000 years ago. So he and his followers have archaic doctrines and rituals that don't fit in well with the current times.

He was here to recruit followers or slow the bleeding of people leaving his church. I doubt his attempt did much bad or good. Kim being quite a nut job, isn't a pretty mascot for anyone. Huckabee and Cruz looked like fools and so does the Pope for meeting and/or supporting her.

Very disappointing