awwwww sh*t. Head explosions.

not the Kim Davis BS

…..that the Davis meeting was engineered by a conservative group in the Vatican, hoping to undermine his trip to the USA as soon as he returned to Rome. The hope was that the media would focus on this and not on the more progressive things, such as they were, that he said and did. Which is exactly what has happened.

In all inner political circles, there's always these Borgia-like things going on. Happens in our congress too. With Kochs as the modern venal "Princes". Same Court politics.

(as Charlie is known to do. )

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a38440/pope-francis-swindled-kim-davis-meeting/

I just found the article myself.

When Ratzi Church appointees (embeds?) were involved in getting Kim Davis ushered in with the rest, I wondered. It makes a twisted sort of sense.

Oh oh, Kim Davis shook the hand that hugged a guy gay. She's a tainted conservative now.

Love this little hiccup in Kim's and her attorneys' tall tales.

Seems like it was the Pope himself that set up this meeting. I doubt the Pope will ever come out for Gay Marriage, but this was a show of support for compassion and love.

I don't expect a 180 in regards to the Catholic Church and marriage equality. But I know how Americans use to be in regards to the LGBT community. Hell I know how I use to be when I was a kid growing up in rural Pennsylvania back in the 70s. Sometimes it's the little things that get the ball rolling in the right direction.

I know this Pope is not perfect, he is not the hero of the liberals. But I know that many of us including even Bernie Sanders do see him as a good ally for many of our top causes like income equality, immigration rights and climate change and we respect the fact that when the Pope is given a microphone in which to speak in front of a crowd these are the issues he focuses on and not the issues that seem to divide our nation like Abortion and Marriage equality.

Thus, the recognition and respect for LGBT marriage has nothing to do with religion.

We celebrate and enjoy freedom of religion and of thought and conscience when it comes to moral issues.

Churches may do what they want, but our Constitution guarantees equality and the protection of our basic rights.

Marriage is a basic right.

LGBTs cannot be deprived of that basic right.

Protected by their First Amendment rights, the churches decide who receives religious sacraments.

Churches are free and protected under the First Amendment to deny the sacrament of marriage to LGBTs if they wish.

The government dedicated to protecting the equal rights of all citizens cannot deny LGBT couples their fundamental right to marry.

Davis needs to find a different job.

Maybe she should become a marriage counselor or a minister. She seems to have lots of experience with marriage and would probably enjoy refusing the sacrament of marriage to LGBTs. She is just on the wrong career path.

Ms. Davis. Enjoy your retirement.

He had the meeting with Davis in the wider context of repeatedly and publicly supporting her position against the rights of gay people.


He had the meeting with his gay friend in the context of "well, while I'm screwing you over on policy I'll give you a hug to show how nice I am about it".


All this is is another demonstration of the fact that this is the PR Pope.

Welcome to the double punk.

and that is the one that cherry picks the bible so she can be an attention whore.

This is the same guy who compared transgender people to nuclear weapons. He might say a couple interesting things now and again on other topics, but I would never call him pro gay rights in any way, no matter what he does for appearances. Jerry Falwell met with gay people too. He was still an anti-gay bigot.

I don't get the swooning over this guy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

It's the old "some of my best friends are..." crap. Some seem almost desperate to make the Pope into something he is not.

But in view of the Kim Davis fiasco, he's putting that into context.

out of normal human caring.

He met with a friend, who happened to be gay and in a same sex relationship, not the head of "DIGNITY."

If Francis has moral authority on the climate and economy, that gives him legitimacy for his anti gay and anti choice and anti contraception positions. The argument that he is breaking up some monopoly is specious when the US evangelicals agree with Francis on all of his top activist issues. He is creating interfaith unity against marriage equality and choice while making tidy press releases to lure in hapless liberals to aid in a cause they actually oppose. Or I like to assume they oppose.

Read this, it's about what you think are two very separate groups of religious people meeting at the Vatican to organize against marriage equality. Francis, Rick Warren, Tony Perkins, Maggie Galagher of NOM, all the cats from the Heritage Foundation.
Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

That would reduce its power as a weapon against Democrats, allowing voters to decide on more than "but my preacher says they are all sinners!!"

Can you show me his 3 day conference on poverty? This last week's conference was World Meeting of Families' which are under threat you know. It was not a poverty conference.

Just declaring that he does something does not make it so.

2-day conference in 2014 - http://www.investingforthepoor.org/

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about: Kim Davis's lawyers just called the Pope a liar.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141223219

"We can use him where he helps" does not mean "follow him" or "agree with him" or "he will make stuff happen for us while we sit on the couch". A nice little feud between the Vatican and US religious crazies will work nicely. Turning "He's a good Christian, I'll vote for him" to "He's a fucking Papist! I'll never support him" will do quite nicely.

Along the way, we might also get some of his followers to vote to help the poor.

And we can continue to argue with him on the others.

But at least the right-wingers can't claim him as their own.

This means 'our side' is just your side, not my side. My problem with Francis is in the context of Democratic politics, which is the entire context of this website. I'm gay and I'm pro choice.

Dick Cheney supported marriage equality before any Democrat, you did not see us rushing to make common ground with him or to praise his liberal nature. That's because we are not chumps.

I think he is doing what he can, and that has been quite a bit. I'm very proud of him (even though I'm an atheist).

Or are you more proud of when he said gay marriage was "the work of the devil and a “destructive attack on God’s plan.” Or are you more proud of when "He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

Which ones of those stances are you most PROUD of? Please elaborate. I'm just curious which one of those things you are MOST proud of.

changed its dogma. The facts are the church is still against the same things before Francis assumed the role. The only difference is that this pope expresses more compassion for what he still considers "sinners"

The fact that straight people can't even see how insulting this is when used as some defense of a clearly anti gay activist such as Francis.

Let me know when Francis says he was wrong and that his friend's marriage was not Satan's idea.

The good thing is events like this really demonstrate who are our allies and who are all talk!

to even try to respond. It's just amazing. They are on automatic pilot. I thought they'd at least try to make an argument in his defense, but they just don't seem capable of it.

It seems the "cultural war against the gays" is not over (I never thought it was), and it isn't just being fought on the right!!

Everything is being "carefully crafted" at this point.

Also, I don't hate the Pope. I don't know him. So don't imply I do. And, what I recognize is he needs better handlers, like his PR team, they are doing a bang up job!

don'cha know? What he says about us isn't hate, but when we bring it up later, it means we hate him.

I'm so sick of being told I'm the hatemonger. I'm not the one who wants other people not to have equal rights.

Shall fall in it.

compared transgender people to nuclear weapons:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/pope-compares-transgender-people-to-nuclear-weapons#.jfNO22pZ1

He said gay marriage was "the work of the devil" and a “destructive attack on God’s plan" and "a total rejection of God’s law."

He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

...but we "hate" him because we point out that he is against us? Nice logic you are using there.

Didn't think so. But glad to see you here, loaded for bear with cognitive diss.

Why do you do that? If you have something to day about the subject do so but attacking people personally for speaking their own minds is what bullies do.

and he was bamboozled by an anti lgbt group to meet kim davis, they should release who set that meeting up and who set him up.

I was very hard on this pope when I thought he voluntarily and intentionally met with Kim Davis. If it was a set up, I'd like to know who did it although I'm sure it was right wingers because they wanted to undermine his goodwill for the trip he made

political hack in the Catholic hierarchy sprung Davis on the Pope. I was just listening to On Point (NPR), and they named some Cardinal who they suspect hand a hand in it. Michael Crowley said he doubts the Pope knew who she was.

right there in the Vatican, where he is no doubt sowing seeds of mistrust and alienation every day. Francis needs to send this old bastard to the hinterlands, where he belongs; he is NOT his friend, nor is he a benign former colleague who is living out his sunset years quietly underfoot. He split the Papacy to cover himself and his child molesting friends; he is pulling strings from within. Never more obvious than after this trick.