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Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 06:43 PM Oct 2015

Defense Dept. to Make Payments After Strike on Doctors Without Borders Hospital

Source: NBC NEWS

OCT 10 2015, 6:32 PM ET

The U.S. Department of Defense on Saturday said it will make payments to the victims of airstrikes that mistakenly struck a Doctors Without Border hospital in the Afghan city of Kunduz last week.

At least 22 people were killed in the aerial bombardment of the charity hospital during fighting in the city early Oct. 3. This week, the charity said. The dead included 12 staff members and 10 patients, including three children.

"The Department of Defense believes it is important to address the consequences of the tragic incident at the Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan," The Defense Department said in a statement.

"One step the Department can take is to make condolence payments to civilian non-combatants injured and the families of civilian non-combatants killed as a result of U.S. military operations," the department said.

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/defense-dept-make-payments-after-strike-doctors-without-borders-hospital-n442296



Well then, that will make it 'all better' now...

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Defense Dept. to Make Payments After Strike on Doctors Without Borders Hospital (Original Post) Purveyor Oct 2015 OP
It's back to being a "mistake" again? arcane1 Oct 2015 #1
and why would they destroy the hospital of Doctors Without Borders intentionally? still_one Oct 2015 #3
I had read earlier that there were al Qaeda being treated there and it was thus targeted. arcane1 Oct 2015 #6
Where did you read that? Even if that was so, it wouldn't justify and the payment represents an still_one Oct 2015 #17
It was here somewhere in one of the many threads. I may be mistaking al Q for Taliban. arcane1 Oct 2015 #18
I don't doubt you read it, and it may be valid, I'm skeptical too still_one Oct 2015 #22
This was one of the threads: arcane1 Oct 2015 #21
It was, presumably, Taliban, not AQ. enlightenment Oct 2015 #34
Shouldn't all hospitals be somehow identified on maps so things like this can't happen passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #2
Yeah, they should, but they screwed up. The Chinese embassy accidentally got bombed in Belgrade still_one Oct 2015 #7
Yeah, just collateral damage. Nothing to see here. passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #8
you misrepresented entirely what I said. I NEVER said collateral damage, YOU DID. still_one Oct 2015 #10
No, but it sounded like you were saying "hey, mistakes happen" passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #26
well I didn't, but I also do not believe it was intentional. That also does not make it right. still_one Oct 2015 #28
A 30+ minute mistake if I remember rpannier Oct 2015 #24
Most mistakes are due to negligence still_one Oct 2015 #25
And when I served from 89-93 rpannier Oct 2015 #27
Well, connotation is important. Appreciate the clarification still_one Oct 2015 #29
What exactly do 22 lives cost? Doctor_J Oct 2015 #4
and what would you like them to do, not pay anything for the loss of lives? The payment is also an still_one Oct 2015 #11
turn the culprits over to the world court Doctor_J Oct 2015 #20
So our shooting down of the Iranian jetliner, and the bombing of the Chinese embassy, which we said still_one Oct 2015 #23
No! Why do that when we are not participant in The world court yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #32
And who is getting decommissioned? mpcamb Oct 2015 #14
Our Lives, Our Fortunes, and Our Sacred Honor Demeter Oct 2015 #31
At least Obama said sorry right ? SMH Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #5
What would you like them to do? It is a terrible mistake, and isn't the first time, but still_one Oct 2015 #9
I want our government to provide financial support to the doctors and also equipment. rladdi Oct 2015 #13
Here is an excerpt from MSF still_one Oct 2015 #19
Should build MSF a state of the art replacement hospital. Downwinder Oct 2015 #36
It wasn't a mistake. It was intentional. Any representation otherwise is a Big Lie Demeter Oct 2015 #33
I agree. It makes me ashamed of this country. mpcamb Oct 2015 #40
Doctors without Border needs financial support too, I contribute to them for there great work rladdi Oct 2015 #12
+1 flamingdem Oct 2015 #38
How quaint... Earth_First Oct 2015 #15
It is just taxpayer revenue. Downwinder Oct 2015 #16
I bet we are the only country to pay for our badness yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #30
"Our Badness" mpcamb Oct 2015 #39
American people to make payment... peace13 Oct 2015 #35
Minimally, it should come from the Defense Department. mpcamb Oct 2015 #41
Just remember that Russia still has yet to admit responsibility for MH17 Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #37

still_one

(91,965 posts)
17. Where did you read that? Even if that was so, it wouldn't justify and the payment represents an
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:40 PM
Oct 2015

implicit admission of fault, which would not close the door to further legal action.

The reason I am skeptical of that, is because essentially AQ is not much of a force in Afghanistan. Taliban is the force we have been dealing with. Most of AQ is in Pakistan, and the middle east from my understanding

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
18. It was here somewhere in one of the many threads. I may be mistaking al Q for Taliban.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:43 PM
Oct 2015

Wouldn't be the first time someone did that

Personally, I'm skeptical of every version of these events.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
34. It was, presumably, Taliban, not AQ.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 08:56 PM
Oct 2015

Given how long we've been in Afghanistan and the various groups we have focused on, the slip of mind on the part of the poster isn't unreasonable.

Officials initially said American troops in Kunduz, deployed to help Afghan soldiers retake the city from the Taliban, called in the airstrike because they were under direct fire from insurgents.

Gen. John F. Campbell, the top commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, later revised that account to say that Afghan forces caught in fighting had requested the airstrike, which was approved and carried out by the U.S. military.

Hamdullah Danishi, the acting governor of Kunduz, was quoted as saying that Taliban fighters had been firing rockets from inside the MSF compound.

But if there was firing near the hospital when the U.S. attacked, witnesses and hospital staff members said, they did not hear anything.


http://www.latimes.com/world/afghanistan-pakistan/la-fg-kunduz-tic-toc-20151009-story.html

Worthwhile to read the entire article, as it contains a lot of information - including some discussion about the Afghan security forces ire at the idea that MSF treats all patients, regardless (including Taliban).

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
2. Shouldn't all hospitals be somehow identified on maps so things like this can't happen
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:00 PM
Oct 2015

if it really was a mistake, which I doubt, since they first said there were people shooting at them from inside the hospital.

God, I hate what we've done to this planet.

still_one

(91,965 posts)
7. Yeah, they should, but they screwed up. The Chinese embassy accidentally got bombed in Belgrade
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:09 PM
Oct 2015

during the war in Kosovo, and that also was an accident. Iran Air Flight 655, with 200 plus passengers, a civilian aircraft, was shot down by us also. Those are the worst type of things, but they were mistakes.

I understand it is easy to assume we did it intentionally, but apart from the inhumanity of NOT doing it, there is absolutely no strategic value to it. In fact just the opposite.

These were mistakes. Bad mistakes, but mistakes nevertheless.

still_one

(91,965 posts)
10. you misrepresented entirely what I said. I NEVER said collateral damage, YOU DID.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:25 PM
Oct 2015


yup, it was intentional. everyone knows the good publicity we would get by bombing doctors without borders, and civilian hospitals.

Have a good day





passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
26. No, but it sounded like you were saying "hey, mistakes happen"
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 08:03 PM
Oct 2015

Mistakes wouldn't be happening if we weren't trying to democratize the whole fucking world for our economic gain.

still_one

(91,965 posts)
28. well I didn't, but I also do not believe it was intentional. That also does not make it right.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 08:11 PM
Oct 2015

Mai Lai is an example of a war crime. This is a terrible thing, but unless shown otherwise that the hospital was intentionally targeted, compensation of the victims, and the organization, Doctors without Borders is about the only thing that can be done in regard to this incident.

rpannier

(24,304 posts)
27. And when I served from 89-93
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 08:08 PM
Oct 2015

they didn't call it a mistake
They called it negligence

The terminology has very different meanings
Mistake is considered small and a 'could happen to anyone' kind of thing
Negligence (and that's what this was) is a major error in judgement, major error in chain of command and leadership.

Unless they've changed the way they define things in two decades, this was negligence, they should call it such and many people within the command structure should have that reflected in their OER's (Officer Evaluation Record) and most should be reassigned and/or put through retraining

still_one

(91,965 posts)
11. and what would you like them to do, not pay anything for the loss of lives? The payment is also an
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:33 PM
Oct 2015

admission of guilt, and that may or may not open the door to further legal action.

still_one

(91,965 posts)
23. So our shooting down of the Iranian jetliner, and the bombing of the Chinese embassy, which we said
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:54 PM
Oct 2015

were mistakes, should those "culprits" be turned over to the world court also?

In other words, are mistakes under the jurisdiction of the world court? Unless it can be shown that this was intentionally planned, and implemented, then there is no case for the world court, and I have not heard Doctors without Borders make that statement

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
32. No! Why do that when we are not participant in The world court
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 08:19 PM
Oct 2015

We don't answer to them nor should we until we are members which the last 3 presidents said no way.

mpcamb

(2,855 posts)
14. And who is getting decommissioned?
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:35 PM
Oct 2015

Will heads roll? Because they oughta. There's a bunch who should have been gone last week.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
31. Our Lives, Our Fortunes, and Our Sacred Honor
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 08:16 PM
Oct 2015

Well, so much for that. It will take several generations of penance to make the world think the least bit better about USA.

Truprogressive85

(900 posts)
5. At least Obama said sorry right ? SMH
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:03 PM
Oct 2015

So instead of holding someone accountable DOD will just pay ?

moral decay ?


It was a mistake
oh collateral damage
they were harboring Taliban
oh it was a mistake again

still_one

(91,965 posts)
9. What would you like them to do? It is a terrible mistake, and isn't the first time, but
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:20 PM
Oct 2015

unfortunately you cannot bring back the dead. Does the compensation to families absolve what happened? No it doesn't, but it is an admission of fault.

Who is responsible, the United States. Bringing some lowly soldier for reading coordinates off a computer program won't provide justice for the victims, or for the software analyst which most likely input the wrong information.



rladdi

(581 posts)
13. I want our government to provide financial support to the doctors and also equipment.
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:35 PM
Oct 2015

Airplanes, trucks etc to help them with their mission. They do deserve it.

still_one

(91,965 posts)
19. Here is an excerpt from MSF
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:46 PM
Oct 2015

MSF engages bilaterally with many US government offices in both the executive and legislative branches. We are in contact mostly with the State Department, the White House, and the Department of Defense on the executive side. Within the State Department there are different offices that are in charge of funding humanitarian assistance on behalf of the US government, like USAID.

On the legislative side it’s mostly with Congress— sometimes specific representative offices, sometimes the specialized foreign affairs committees. We also engage with people in the embassies of the countries in which we work.

The US is one of the main donors in terms of humanitarian assistance worldwide, so they are key players in any humanitarian crisis. We engage for many different reasons—to alert, to inform about specific humanitarian situations that we’re witnessing. We also sometimes engage to get a sense of what their policies are, so we can adapt our operations on the ground if need be.

Another important aim of our engagement is to keep certain global health issues on the agenda, such as access to medicines and vaccines and better treatments for diseases like HIV and drug-resistant TB. We also share our views on the impact of specific decisions a political actor makes; sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, but we maintain that dialogue. We do not request funding from the US government, and this plays a major role in ensuring that we are able to have open discussions that are not biased by the exchange of funding.

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/news-stories/newsletter/how-does-msf-interact-us-government-and-other-regional-organizations

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
33. It wasn't a mistake. It was intentional. Any representation otherwise is a Big Lie
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 08:19 PM
Oct 2015

and there's nobody going to pay for it besides the victims and their families, friends, communities, etc.

The Air Force, with its muscular evangelical Xtianity, blew a big hole in the world.

rladdi

(581 posts)
12. Doctors without Border needs financial support too, I contribute to them for there great work
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 07:33 PM
Oct 2015

and bravery. The US government need to give them tens of millions of dollars, plus some decent planes for their world wide travels. Let the US Govt. give them medical supplies, construction equipment to build hospitals. This team is doing a great job around the world and they need help. It would save them from asking for donations.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
30. I bet we are the only country to pay for our badness
Sat Oct 10, 2015, 08:15 PM
Oct 2015

Most other countries say oh well. You think Russia would pay in the same situation? No way!

mpcamb

(2,855 posts)
41. Minimally, it should come from the Defense Department.
Mon Oct 12, 2015, 08:08 PM
Oct 2015

Minimally.
And they should be on the carpet.
And heads should roll.
And the most obscure, least prestigious assignments should be filled with lifers under whose command this occurred.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
37. Just remember that Russia still has yet to admit responsibility for MH17
Sun Oct 11, 2015, 12:25 AM
Oct 2015

and they continue to block the creation of an international criminal tribunal, and disseminate the most outrageous conspiracy theories to trolls and loony left bloggers/journalists in an effort to evade blame...

Nobody was calling that shit a "war crime" when it happened

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