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iandhr

(6,852 posts)
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 11:25 PM Mar 2016

U.S. Citizen Killed in Jaffa Terror Attack Identified as Vanderbilt University Student

Source: Haaretz

The U.S. citizen killed in Tuesday's terror attack in Jaffa was identified as Taylor Force, a student at Vanderbilt University's Owen Graduate School of Management. Force was in Israel for an Owen school trip. All other Vanderbilt students, faculty and staff on the trip are safe, according to a university statement.


"Taylor embarked on this trip to expand his understanding of global entrepreneurship and also to share his insights and knowledge with start-ups in Israel," the university said.


Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.707771

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U.S. Citizen Killed in Jaffa Terror Attack Identified as Vanderbilt University Student (Original Post) iandhr Mar 2016 OP
tragic: another victim of radical jihad ericson00 Mar 2016 #1
that's bull&$#@ markj757 Mar 2016 #2
It was just and moral to kill a American student in Israel branford Mar 2016 #3
that's ridiculous... markj757 Mar 2016 #4
There's plenty of injustice and immorality on both sides maxsolomon Mar 2016 #5
I absolutely agree.... markj757 Mar 2016 #6
Which Palestinians are fighting for their right to exist & live in freedom in their own land? shira Mar 2016 #8
What propagandist talking points.... markj757 Mar 2016 #9
Terrorists aren't fighting for their right to exist & live in peace. shira Mar 2016 #10
Actually.... markj757 Mar 2016 #11
Latest polls show you're wrong as American support for Israel is just as good.... shira Mar 2016 #16
I remember when Israel removed their citizens from the Gaza Strip ripcord Mar 2016 #25
Desperation? Hamas isn't desperate for peace & 2 states. shira Mar 2016 #7
I'm speaking of the individuals perpetrating these stabbings, not Hamas maxsolomon Mar 2016 #12
That's their MO.... markj757 Mar 2016 #13
Those who support or sympathize with Hamas are terror sympathizers & antisemites. shira Mar 2016 #15
Individuals like kids, incited by Hamas? Or maniacs just as hateful as Hamas? shira Mar 2016 #14
because I/P is a unique situation? maxsolomon Mar 2016 #17
the terrorism aimed at Israel is abhorrent Mosby Mar 2016 #18
Oh my God.... markj757 Mar 2016 #19
This just came out TODAY Mosby Mar 2016 #20
Biden didn't expect it to work when he proposed it. maxsolomon Mar 2016 #21
There was no French plan Mosby Mar 2016 #23
then it's not a realistic formation, is it? maxsolomon Mar 2016 #24
I think you need to wake the fuck up.... markj757 Mar 2016 #22
Yeah, they choose violence rather than peace. They want all Israel. shira Mar 2016 #26
 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
1. tragic: another victim of radical jihad
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 11:45 PM
Mar 2016

hence why America must always stand with her ally the Jewish State of Israel

 

markj757

(194 posts)
2. that's bull&$#@
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 11:59 PM
Mar 2016

We need to stand on the side of justice and morality, and the suffering and collective punishment of the Palestinian people at the hands of Israel is abhorrent.

 

branford

(4,462 posts)
3. It was just and moral to kill a American student in Israel
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 12:32 AM
Mar 2016

on a school trip (or any of the other civilians)?

Whatever "side" you claim to be standing on supports the murder of civilians in pursuit of political goals. In the USA and our Democratic Platform, we call that terrorism.

I don't believe "justice" and "morality" mean what you think they mean.

 

markj757

(194 posts)
4. that's ridiculous...
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 02:00 AM
Mar 2016

Where in my response did I call the killing of an American student just and moral. I only addressed the issue of Israel's treatment of Palestinians and the poster's comment that we need to stand with the "Jewish" state of Israel. For one, Israel has Christians and Muslims as well, so we stand with countries not one specific religion of a country. And we also need to stand for what is just and moral, and just because Israel is an American ally, that doesn't mean we stand by while the people of Palestine are persecuted for having the audacity to want to live on their own land.

maxsolomon

(32,992 posts)
5. There's plenty of injustice and immorality on both sides
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 01:55 PM
Mar 2016

even if the terror is asymmetric.

the Settler Movement is strangling any chance of a viable Palestinian State, and quite deliberately so. the Netanyahu administration can't or won't stop it - but removing the Settlements from the West Bank, as Gaza was abandoned, is a key step to ending this intractable situation.

the stabbings are indicative of the desperation on the Palestinian side. i don't condone them in the least, but i understand what motivates them - despair. this isn't black or white, good guy/bad guy. its not simple - this is a tangled web that we helped weave.

this kid got caught in that web. RIP.

 

markj757

(194 posts)
6. I absolutely agree....
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 04:55 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Thu Mar 10, 2016, 09:41 AM - Edit history (1)

the poster just pissed me off with that radical jihad bull%@#$. The Palestinian people are fighting for their right to exist, and live in freedom on their own land, not some radical jihad campaign to terrorize the west for what they feel are a legacy of evil acts against them. Trying to lump the Palestinians into that group, is a cowardly attempt to dehumanize their struggle, and brush them with the broad stroke of being terrorist.

It is a tragedy when any life is loss, be it American, Palestinian, or Israeli, and whether people have the courage to admit it or not, we all know who is David and who is Goliath in this tragedy, in a country that is fast becoming nothing more than an apartheid state.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
8. Which Palestinians are fighting for their right to exist & live in freedom in their own land?
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 07:29 AM
Mar 2016

Hamas? Terrorists?

Israel has offered the Palestinians their own state multiple times, free of occupation & settlements, half of Jerusalem on the equivalent of 100% of land in the W.Bank & Gaza strip (after land swaps).

Who the fuck is fighting for their right to exist & live in peace?

You can't be serious.

 

markj757

(194 posts)
9. What propagandist talking points....
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 09:31 AM
Mar 2016

Does Hamas use terrorist tactics to fight against a powerful military and country in the middle east. Absolutely. Does Israel use terror, collective punishment, and an apartheid like system to try and contain and isolate Palestinians while slowing stealing their land. Absolutely. Acts of terror are not immune on either side, but the amount of lives lost, the humiliation and misery is much more greatly felt by Palestinians.

And if Israel has supposedly offered the Palestinians such a sweet deal, let's see what happens when the UN finally calls them on it, which I hope will be very soon. Especially, if the Obama admin has anything to say about it. God help us, but even Trump may be willing to call them on it.

And yes, I didn't stutter, the Palestinians are fighting for their right exist and live in peace on their own land, in charge of their own future. That's who the fuck is fighting, and I have no doubt, that in the end, they will succeed. Because the arc of the universe is long, but it definitely bends toward justice.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
10. Terrorists aren't fighting for their right to exist & live in peace.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:39 AM
Mar 2016

They're terrorist murderers. They're not about peace, tolerance, and 2 states.

They don't have to send rockets over the borders.

All they need to do is agree to some peace deal they've been offered multiple times already, going back to 1947.

And you wonder why you're so out of the mainstream, even within the Democratic Party?

 

markj757

(194 posts)
11. Actually....
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:11 AM
Mar 2016

Everything thing I posted is well within the Democratic Party mainstream, just not the Democratic Party political leadership class. But times are a changing, thanks to the help of Obama and Bibi's tense and sometimes outright disrespectful relationship with him, and our voices are growing louder and louder.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
16. Latest polls show you're wrong as American support for Israel is just as good....
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:29 PM
Mar 2016

....or better than it has been previously.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=125462

Turns out the American people make up the Israel Lobby.

Not AIPAC.

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
25. I remember when Israel removed their citizens from the Gaza Strip
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 08:34 PM
Mar 2016

I also remember how the Palestinians reacted, they use Gaza as a base to launch rockets into Israel. As long as the destruction of Israel is a stated goal of Hamas they would be foolish to make any accommodations with the Palestinians.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
7. Desperation? Hamas isn't desperate for peace & 2 states.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 07:26 AM
Mar 2016

There are dozens of bloodless border disputes in the world today.

Israel has offered the Palestinians their own state multiple times, free of occupation & settlements.

Desperate?

No, your "understanding" gives terrorists an excuse to incite & kill more "bad" Jews. Then other terrorists & their friends party all night long celebrating those murders & the terrorist committing them. Calling for more murders of Jews...

NOT desperation.

maxsolomon

(32,992 posts)
12. I'm speaking of the individuals perpetrating these stabbings, not Hamas
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 01:40 PM
Mar 2016

I think there is despair among the Arab youth. Aren't some of them being perpetrated by teenage girls?

I'm not excusing anything, or calling for more murders. No Terrorist is waiting on my permission. Drop your hyperbole. Hyperbole is one of the problems in the conflict.

Israel can always withdraw from the West Bank pre-emptively.

 

markj757

(194 posts)
13. That's their MO....
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:23 PM
Mar 2016

using hyperbole and calling everyone who profoundly disagrees with Israels policies and treatment of the Palestinian people is either a terrorist sympathizer or an anti-Semite. Its disgusting, but its finally starting to wear thin at least among Democrats like it has already worn thin almost everywhere else in the world.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
15. Those who support or sympathize with Hamas are terror sympathizers & antisemites.
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:27 PM
Mar 2016

It really is that simple.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
14. Individuals like kids, incited by Hamas? Or maniacs just as hateful as Hamas?
Thu Mar 10, 2016, 10:26 PM
Mar 2016

Why don't we see desperate people elsewhere around the world - WAY more desperate people - doing the same? Murdering random innocents?

maxsolomon

(32,992 posts)
17. because I/P is a unique situation?
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 01:22 PM
Mar 2016

There are innocents being murdered all over the planet every day, but there is no situation analogous to I/P. Perhaps china's cultural appropriation of Tibet, but they're Buddhists, not Abrahamic Monotheists, so they are less disposed to violence. The Tamil Tigers may have been analogous, but they were exterminated.

I would say that you appear predisposed to not see any gray areas regarding Israel and the occupation of the West Bank. You're certainly not alone; I watched the GOP debate last night.


Mosby

(16,168 posts)
18. the terrorism aimed at Israel is abhorrent
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 01:48 PM
Mar 2016

The Palestinians can negotiate a settlement anytime they want but choose violence instead.

 

markj757

(194 posts)
19. Oh my God....
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 05:11 PM
Mar 2016

do you really believe the Palestinians can negotiate a just and fair settlement anytime they want, but they choose violence? If you do, then there is little for us to debate on this issue. We will just have to agree to disagree. But I do agree terrorism leveled at Israel or any country is abhorrent, but there is something called blowback. And in this particular case, it means you just can't commit acts of collective punishment, methodically steal people's land, and other immoral and unfair acts against a people for decades, and expect their not to repercussions from those actions. It applies to the basic understanding of human nature and human interaction, just as much as it applies to sins and deeds of nations. Sooner or later, people will begin to fight back, and you shouldn't be shocked that their response will be violent and in many cases abhorrent.

Mosby

(16,168 posts)
20. This just came out TODAY
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 07:11 PM
Mar 2016
Abbas Rejects U.S. Peace Proposal, Again

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas rejected a peace initiative proposed by U.S. Vice President Joe Biden on Wednesday, the Palestinian newspaper Al Quds reported. The deal included a Palestinian capital in eastern Jerusalem and a moratorium on West Bank construction in exchange for recognizing Israel as a Jewish state and relinquishing the Palestinian “right of return.”

The dismissal of Biden’s reported offer follows an almost 20-year history of Palestinians rejecting peace proposals. In July 2000 at Camp David, former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat rejected Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak’s offer of 92% of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip, along with a capital in eastern Jerusalem. After he left office, President Bill Clinton made it clear that Arafat was to blame for the failure of the Camp David Summit. Arafat responded to the offer by launching the Second Intifada.

In 2008, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert presented Abbas with a proposal for a peace agreement. It was also rejected. In an interview a year later, Abbas said he refused the offer because “the gaps were wide.” (Abbas again admitted his rejection of Olmert’s offer last year.) In March 2014, Israel accepted Secretary of State John Kerry’s framework for continued peace negotiations and agreed to proceed on the basis of it, while Abbas rejected it and the next month formed a unity government with the Iran-backed terror organization Hamas. In September 2015, Netanyahu stated that he was willing to restart talks at anytime without preconditions. The chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, responded by calling Netanyahu’s bid a “PR stunt” and rejected the offer.

http://www.thetower.org/abbas-rejects-u-s-peace-proposal-again/


Maybe it's time for you and other DUers to wake the fuck up and start dealing with reality.

maxsolomon

(32,992 posts)
21. Biden didn't expect it to work when he proposed it.
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 07:30 PM
Mar 2016

Meanwhile, the PA has welcomed a French plan, but the Netanyahu Admin has rejected it.

And on it goes. There are intractable differences; the Right of Return, the Settlements. Neither side appears ready for Peace, except on their own terms, and that is the source of frustration on DU.

I suspect that even the cerebral Donald Trump, Grand Marshall of the Israeli Day Parade, will not be able to make an I/P deal.

Mosby

(16,168 posts)
23. There was no French plan
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 07:36 PM
Mar 2016

Saying "work shit out or else..." is not a plan.

The Clinton parameters form the basis of a realistic settlement, but the Palestinian leadership have rejected that formation three times now.

maxsolomon

(32,992 posts)
24. then it's not a realistic formation, is it?
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 07:45 PM
Mar 2016

you're right, the French threat to pre-emptively recognize a Palestinian State is not a peace proposal.

but maybe Pres. Trump can make a deal. he's a deal artist! a top negotiator, and the best friend Israel has. alternately, Israel can just keep up their current policy of wall-building and settlement, and figure that every once in a while there will be a Palestinian attack, and then conduct reprisals. it's been the basic plan for Netanyahu's entire administration.

 

markj757

(194 posts)
22. I think you need to wake the fuck up....
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 07:33 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Why can Israel reject a peace proposal from the Palestinians because it doesn't meet their demands, but the Palestinians can't do the same. If the Palestinians do it, then according to your logic, they don't want peace they want more violence. Give me a fucking break. The only one here not dealing with reality is you. On top of the fact, I have to do more research about thetower.org and find out how reputable there reporting actually is. Its not like you gave me something from a main stream established American news organization, so that maybe a bunch of bullshit propaganda as well. Like I said, we need to agree to disagree.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
26. Yeah, they choose violence rather than peace. They want all Israel.
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 09:26 PM
Mar 2016

It's why they refuse to recognize a Jewish state.
Refuse to give up the right to flood Israel with over 5 million Palestinians.
It's why they say Tel Aviv and Haifa are occupied, and its Jewish residents settlers.

Join the real world sometime.

The PLO and Hamas charters call for the destruction of Israel, not 2 states living in peace.

The "moderate" Holocaust denying Abbas still calls for, incites, praises, & rewards terror attacks against Jews. That's never ended. And that's not what a moderate for 2 states living in peace would do.

These are basic facts.

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