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uawchild

(2,208 posts)
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 10:38 AM Aug 2016

Japan protests over Chinese radar in disputed East China Sea drilling rig

Source: The Guardian - UK

Japan has filed a protest to Beijing after the discovery that China installed radar equipment in a gas exploration platform close to disputed waters in the East China Sea.

Japan fears the radar, a type commonly found on patrol ships and not necessary for gas field development, could be a sign China intends to use gas exploration platforms in the disputed waters as military stations, Japanese media said.

According to a spokesman for Tokyo’s foreign ministry, Japan discovered the radar in late June and issued a protest on Friday through its embassy in China, urging Beijing to explain the purpose.

Japan has been calling on China to halt construction of oil and gas exploration platforms in the East China Sea, accusing it of unilateral development despite a 2008 agreement to maintain cooperation on resources development in the area, where no official border between them has been drawn.


Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/07/japan-protests-over-chinese-radar-in-disputed-east-china-sea-drilling-rig



Radars, like anti-missile shields, are purely defensive though. Right? Anti-missile shields use radars too, don't they?

Didn't we scoff when China complained about anti-missile shields in South Korea? Why, yes, we did:

"China says South Korea's THAAD anti-missile decision harms foundation of trust

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi has criticized South Korea's decision to deploy an advanced U.S. anti-missile defense system to counter threats from North Korea, saying it harmed the foundation of their trust.

The announcement by South Korea and the United States this month that they would deploy a Terminal High Altitude Area Defence (THAAD) unit has already drawn protests from China that it would destabilize regional security.

The decision is the latest move to squeeze the increasingly isolated North Korea, but China worries the system's radar will be able to track its military capabilities. Russia also opposes the deployment.

"The recent move by the South Korean side has harmed the foundation of mutual trust between the two countries," Wang was quoted by South Korean media as telling South Korean Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se.
...
South Korea and the United States have said THAAD would only be used in defense against North Korean ballistic missiles."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-thaad-china-defence-idUSKCN1050Y7


Shrug. Once more, it's "do as I say, not as I do", apparently.
14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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uawchild

(2,208 posts)
2. Its the EAST China Sea NOT the South China Sea, headline made that clear.
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 11:11 AM
Aug 2016

And there are recognized claims by both China and Japan in the region, as well as a disputed region.



And the gas drilling platforms being equipped with radar seem to be closer to China than Japan looking at the maps available.

China's actions look reasonable here, well as reasonable as our placement of missile shields. Both are "purely defensive".

Igel

(35,300 posts)
3. Anti-missile shields shoot down what's entering your territory.
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 02:11 PM
Aug 2016

Radar sees what's happening far past your territory's boundaries.

One sort of implies the other--you need to know what's heading your way before it gets to your borders if you want to have any chance of having something there to stop it. But they're different beyond that.

What could radar be used for that's not anti-missile? Not much. But anti-missile radar has a dedicated use, even if it is multiple purpose.

Radar by itself has no dedicated use except to see what's going on over another's territory. That's justified if you're really suspicious about what's heading your way, but Japan about to launch an invasion of China ... Not so much.

But stand-alone radar can also be used to inform pilots operating past your borders as to what's there, what to defend against, what to attack. Given that these are Japanese Islands claimed by China, and that China is being a bit aggressive in expansive territorial claims (rah-rah, go China!), it's a minor threat but probably minor. Then again, Chinese planes.

https://news.usni.org/2016/07/05/chinese-japanese-fighters-clash-east-china-sea

It's sort of like Iran's objection to some renaming of the Persian Gulf as the Arabian Gulf. It's their gulf, dammit, and part of the public justification for the claim is the name. Sort of "name it and claim it" ideology.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Name_it_and_claim_it Granted, it's a biased source, but it's close enough. Plus I rather like insinuating that the mullahs are learning from an American Xian televangelist.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
4. Once more, it's "do as I say, not as I do"
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 03:15 PM
Aug 2016

Welcome to China. I call it the "self serving, national Chinese bullshit story." I see this all the time from my neighbors here in China.

Here is a non political example. . .you can find these stories on echinacities.com.

1: Swedish foreigners couldn't hold it anymore in Shanghai traffic, got off a bus and drained the lizard. Chinese people started screaming for them to be deported.
2: Chinese woman in Chongqing squats down on a public bus, drops a deuce and walks off. Chinese people say she's just a crazy person and shouldn't be bothered.

Even my Chinese national wife is sick of the national Chinese bullshit story.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
6. Do you understand how common that is on the streets of China?
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 03:30 PM
Aug 2016

There is a reason baby clothing has a zipper from the belly button to the ball of the back. Newspaper on the sidewalk, spread baby's legs, out comes the disgustingness in public. Don't worry, trash cans work well too.

As do ashtrays under non-smoking signs near oxygen rooms in hospitals

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
8. I've been to China a few times and the sights to be seen are something else lol
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 03:44 PM
Aug 2016

But I've seen that in other parts of the world as well. The closest example would be in some Arab countries where you have a wide divide between people who are basically living in third world conditions and the Uber sophisticated 1%.

And the poop thing is unfortunately relevant. Just look at what happened to the Disney Park before it even opened.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
9. I know. I live in Wuxi, not far from Shanghai.
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 03:48 PM
Aug 2016

China is a country of "do as I say, not as I do."

One of my favorites is "pointing at someone is considered rude in China, so don't do it, foreigner." When I walk down the street, people stare and point at me. When I inform them that this behavior is considered rude in China, they tell me "but this is our way."

Basically, they move goalposts on what is acceptable when caught in hypocrisy. It's as predictable as sunrise.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
10. Wuxi is beautiful. I loved the parks
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 04:02 PM
Aug 2016

Do you speak Wu as well? Especially living next to Shanghai.

I'm actually working on my Mandarin. Slowly but surely.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
12. All the different dialects and accents of China are fascinating but not really
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 04:11 PM
Aug 2016

Surprising considering the history and geographical make up

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
7. The problem is the coalition blinked and now it's too late.
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 03:33 PM
Aug 2016

This story kinda dropped off my radar so to speak but the last I checked the disputed rock formations have been built up substantially. Does anyone think China will give it up now without a serious fight?

I personally think that while China isn't necessarily trying to start a fight. They do want to try out their new tech. And it's impressive.

Nitram

(22,791 posts)
13. Last I checked, south Korea was a sovereign country that asked the U.S. to help defend...
Mon Aug 8, 2016, 09:26 AM
Aug 2016

...the country from North Korea. Last I checked, the oil rigs where China has installed radar are located in a disputed area in the East China Sea. Do you see the difference?

uawchild

(2,208 posts)
14. Japan does seem to be over reaching
Mon Aug 8, 2016, 10:25 AM
Aug 2016

You do see that the gas rigs in question are closer to China than Japan. China says they are in its sovereign territory, Japan disagrees.

Shrug. Here's how Japan has been expanding its claims in the East China Sea:

Japan has been building ARTIFICAL ISLANDS to expand its economic exclusion zone in the East China Sea.

"Japan spends millions building structures on uninhabited rocks 1,740 km from Tokyo to mark its territory

The Japanese government is to spend Y13 billion (HK$838.3 million) on rebuilding facilities on Okinotorishima, a tiny atoll 1,740 km south of Tokyo that helps to extend Japan’s exclusive economic zone into the Pacific Ocean.
The tiny land mass is only above water because two parts of the coral reef have been protected by concrete embankments and blocks that are designed to prevent them from disappearing beneath the waves for good, critics of Japan’s claim to sovereignty say."
http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/1908706/japan-spends-millions-building-structures-uninhabited-rocks-1740

"Japan’s Attempts at Artificial Island Building

China’s rapid expansion of artificial islands in the South China Sea has alarmed its neighbors and prompted the U.S. to consider using military planes and ships to contest Beijing’s territorial claims. But the building of facilities on rocks or low-lying reefs to strengthen claims to them isn’t a new tactic in East Asia. Japan also has some examples of its own.

Most prominent is Okinotori Island, an uninhibited coral reef more than 1,000 miles south of Tokyo. Japan calls the partially submerged reef its southernmost island. That gives the nation a vast exclusive economic zone around it, where Japanese ships can fish and look for resources. China has contested that claim, calling it a “rock.”

When faced with an “islands or rocks” question, nations turn to the United Nations Law of the Sea for legitimacy, but it’s far from conclusive. The law defines an island as “a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide”. It also states countries can claim an EEZ around an island only when it has “inhabitants, or self-sustaining economic activity.”

Japan’s first attempt to beef up Okinotori took place during World War II with a plan to build a lighthouse. The structure was never built but its artificial foundation remains today."
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2015/05/14/japans-attempts-at-artificial-island-building/

Hmmm, so Japan is doing essentially the same thing in the East China Sea that China is doing in the South China Sea, funny how our media is only outraged over China's actions. So it goes.

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