Brazil police: Swimmers were vandals, not robbery victims
Source: CNN
Civil Police chief Fernando Veloso said at a press conference about four American swimmers: "In theory, one or all of them might be charged for false communication of a crime and for damaging private assets, the gas station. I'm not saying that they are charged right now because of that. We have to finalize the investigation and in theory that could be the case. This is not really a -- this kind of crime will not lead to their arrest."
....
One of the American Olympic swimmers confirmed the account that the surveillance video showed that the swimmers -- Ryan Lochte, Jack Conger, Gunnar Bentz and James Feigen -- were committing acts of vandalism at a gas station when confronted by security guards, Brazilian police said.
....
A firearm was pointed at the American swimmers by one of the security guards at a vandalized gas station in order to control one of them, Brazilian police said. It is not being deemed an excessive use of force.
Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/18/sport/us-swimmers-olympics-robbery-questions/index.html
ABLEZEROSIX
(13 posts)Sad.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)ABLEZEROSIX
(13 posts)Should Americans who commit crimes in foreign lands be immune from prosecution for some insane, idiotic reason?
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)The guys will be vindicated.
citood
(550 posts)He's given me some perspective.
First of all...ponder "why does a gas station have armed security?" That's a question nobody seems to have asked. Answer: many businesses have armed security guards at the door, because they can rely on consistent police protection. And these guys act more 'like cops' than a standard US rent-a-cop would. Looking at it, they practically had a platoon of security guards...in the US a gas station would have one hapless clerk hiding behind glass.
Next - these guys pissed on the floor and kicked a door open...something people do when they're stupid and drunk.
The security guards intervene...and then their ticket out of the situation is $400.
Now if I was in the US and kicked a door in, I would not be surprised if the security guard held me until the police got there. And, I would consider myself lucky if the cop allowed me to negotiate my way out of trouble with the owner for $400.
However, if I kicked a door in, and the armed security guard did not wait for police, and had me empty $400 out of my wallet...I would feel like I had been extorted. Somebody who isn't a cop has a gun, and has detained me with a release price of $400...I may even consider that a robbery.
Same outcome - but the absence of police during this 'negotiation', and the presence of the guard's gun, would make me feel differently. And I think this is at the heart of the discrepancy. Lochte isn't used to how situations like this are handled in Brazil - more 'old west' than we're now used to.
Not a complete excuse (although I have yet to actually see footage of this vandalism), but I can understand how Lochte felt 'robbed'.
OBenario
(604 posts)citood
(550 posts)1 - The gas station had security guards. True or false?
2 - The swimmers are reported to have vandalized station. True or false?
3 - The guards detained them. True or False?
4 - The swimmers paid an exit fee of $400 and were allowed to leave? True or False?
What the fuck have I made up so far?
Now onto my OPINION: From the standpoint of somebody who grew up in suburban USA, when a security guard relieves me of cash, instead of waiting for the police to arrive and settle a situation, I might feel like I was extorted, and I can certainly commiserate with Lochte's state of mind here.
Maybe you're just good at accusing people of inventing things?
BTW - do we know for sure there was vandalism? Absent proof of that, the video actually backs up Lochte's story.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The drunks behaved boorishly and they didn't understand the culture. They were wrong, but they were also strong-armed.
I think henceforth we need to give these kids some major "in country" briefings and offer them security support if they go out in town--maybe even do a few more guided tours/pre-planned events for the athletes--if we continue to hold Olympics in dangerous cities.
"These kids".
It's not wrong to say "they were wrong and should appologize".
Grow up, people.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You can smarm all you want, but a lot of "these kids" are not very sophisticated when it comes to world travel, and they would benefit an In Country brief before they're set loose on a country as informal ambassadors.
I think the person who needs to "grow up" is the one who did not read the full post carefully before whipping out a snarky response. Let me direct you to the bit you apparently missed:
The drunks behaved boorishly and they didn't understand the culture. They were wrong, but they were also strong-armed.
Have a nice day.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Many of these athletes and in particularly Lochte already travel all over the world to compete in events every year so it isn't like this is their first time outside the US
MADem
(135,425 posts)That doesn't mean the method of extracting retribution from them was particularly appropriate, either. Basically, they were extorted without due process, and with, if that video is accurate, a weapon.
That said, if everyone on the Olympic team were required to sit through a Country Briefing, the think-before-you-act aspect of their behavior might have been mitigated.
People will often live up to expectations. If you don't spell out what those expectations are, you're not giving these athletes any guidelines or benchmarks to guide their conduct.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)The best I could gather was security was trying to hold them from fleeing than a third person intervened as interpretor and something like "pay for this" referring to the damage and $20 US and 100 reals ($51) was given so Im unclear with the specefics of what was said considering the language barrier.
Also we have no idea what athletes are briefed or not but Lochte has been all over the world and has a history of similar behavior like public urination at the University of Florida.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'm firmly in the Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right camp on this matter. Lochte was loaded and might have caused damage (there's no video of that, though), and we're pretty confident, that people don't sit down with their hands in the air for amusement--they had a gun pointed at them. They parted with cash under circumstances that may not have been clear.
I doubt the athletes get a proper briefing--if they did, there'd be fewer problems. Staying out until dawn at clubs or brothels would probably not be recommended.
brush
(53,474 posts)for the damage they did.
You call it stong-arming.
The guard probably had a different view of the situation like he might lose his job if he let these vandals get away without compensation the business for the damage they did.
They were drunk, did damage to property and lied about it. It's a problem they created and then didn't have enough sense to just apologize profusely, pay up and hope that would make the situation they created go away.
Kingofalldems
(38,361 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It's disrespectful but all this "representing" gets on my nerves. No country wins medals, no country is responsible for individuals being dicks or assholes, no individual "represents" a place just because they can swim faster than others, etc. etc.
ABLEZEROSIX
(13 posts)They compete under the flag of the United States and claiming that they do not represent this nation is absurd.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)They have a debt for any crimes or bad acts they committed, but they have no obligation to you to "represent" anything on your behalf, and if you feel you're "represented" by them and it damages you somehow then that's your magical thinking, certainly not mine.
And that magic piece of cloth! Whatever. Last I looked they don't organize sports meets without constant reference to nations, but the fact is, the athletes get the medals, not the countries.
apcalc
(4,461 posts)What kind of vandalism at the gas station?
aggiesal
(8,864 posts)broke down the bathroom door, when they couldn't open it.
stopbush
(24,378 posts)and also kicked in the bathroom door.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Three minutes of the video is conveniently missing, too.
I think it's a case of drunks behaving badly, and private security dispensing justice at gunpoint.
bigworld
(1,807 posts)You have everything in the world going for you, you're a damn Olympian, and you piss everything away by being a jackass and destroying a gas station bathroom? How senseless. How stupid.
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Evidence that they were indeed drunk.
OBenario
(604 posts)They were drunk as hell.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)I'm just curious how much.
OBenario
(604 posts)brooklynite
(93,867 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)I'm going to guess never worked a day in their life. That is not to downplay the dedication of Olympic athletes. Obviously that requires a massive amount of work to reach that level. I still think they may be a bit insulated from the real world.
ABLEZEROSIX
(13 posts)but improper upbringing is a possibility.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)A more arrogant person would be hard to find (his father) He strutted around the Y where he coached like he owned it.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)taken advantage of their own power in the situation. I have no idea if that's what actually happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it turns out.
I have little sympathy for these guys though. Good job at making the US look bad by your actions.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)How will we ever hold our heads high again?
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)force them to vandalize the gas station?
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)No, not really. I thought read that the security guards pulled a gun on them and took their belongings. Was that BS? I wasn't making a statement of fact, but just making stuff up from my imagination.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)but the same person claiming that was seen (on video) taking off a watch while coming through security on his way back to the Olympic Village after the incident.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)keep them from taking off until the police (who had already been called) arrived.
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)I'm just glad they didn't continue to act stupid and try to run the guard over.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)He did the smart thing.
OBenario
(604 posts)He was arrogant, acted as a jerk, gave some 300 interviews, saying that he was robbed, and kept lying again, and again, and again.
He received a quite respectful treatment by police. A regular Brazilian vandalizing a gas station would be in prison by now.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)I'm willing to wait and see before I condemn these swimmers.
OBenario
(604 posts)That's it.
Having been to the US I also know "American exceptionalism" is an excuse for everything. "What? An American? Doing that in Brazil? Impossible. We are exceptional".
That's bullshit, sorry.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)And where did I bring up "American exceptionalism"?
OBenario
(604 posts)"Having been to Brazil, I know they must be lying and our athletes are saints and have done nothing wrong".
Tha't American exceptionalism.
Their reports are full of contradictions and their version was proven false by security cameras.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)And yes. I'm willing to take the official line of Brazil with a grain of salt. Do you know anything about the corruption in the headlines? Very recently I might add.
OBenario
(604 posts)There is a lot of corruption.
But that doesn't change the fact that they lied. Period.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)There's obvious inconsistencies in their stories but that video is edited to the point that it raises questions.
OBenario
(604 posts)The things they said were stolen were not stolen.
They lied about everything. From the time they left the Olympic Village, to the time they returned.
They didn't mention anything about the incident at the Gas Station.
You give them too much credit, sorry. If these were Brazilian swimmers doing this in the United States, I'd never had the guts to defend them.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)http://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/news/a62979/team-usa-says-ryan-lochte-lied-about-robbery/
brush
(53,474 posts)That they lied is not even in question anymore.
Today the ones pulled off the plane admitted that Lochte made up the robbery story.
Lochte is in his early 30s, no longer a kid. He needs to immediately apologize to the people of Brazil, the Olympic committee, his team and to the American people, and hope that makes this drunken foolishness go away.
Otherwise he and the others have to face the music of possible legal consequences.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)There's still a lot of time missing from the footage.
I also posted a link to the story about his teammates flipping on him. Are they back in the states yet?
Judi Lynn
(160,217 posts)and hell, who among us hasn't torn up a bathroom because he/she couldn't get in to use it while drunk?
Besides, they are Americans, after all, and Winners! Yay! We're always Number One.
aggiesal
(8,864 posts)and then had a phone interview with NBC, and said that
"... he and his teammates were mugged at gunpoint by at least
one man posing as a police officer. ..."
Video from the gas station (imagine that, a gas stations with video
surveillance) shows that the four swimmers where breaking down
the bathroom door when they couldn't open it.
Video also shows that one of the swimmers got into a fight with the
Security Guard that came by to see what happened. Apparently the
guard was armed, but never pulled from the holster. So the story
that Lochte gave about a gun pointed at his head, never happened.
BTW, you didn't have to mention "American exceptionalism", that post
was trying to point out how these 4 athletes exhibited "American exceptionalism"
and not in the pool, by lying to both the police and the media, until the
video showed otherwise.
B2G
(9,766 posts)The guard, who was an off duty police officer, and may very well have been wearing or flashed his badge, did un-holster his gun and point it at them.
There is also 3 minutes of footage that was edited out of the video that was released.
All of that was discussed in the press conference.
aggiesal
(8,864 posts)But I did see that authorities have indicted Lochte and Feigen for false reporting of a crime (ABC News)
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Yeah they showed some arrogance and stupidity .. but "American Exceptionalism" ? As if they could not have done the same stupid thing in any city in the U.S. OH please.
OBenario
(604 posts)... how Americans reacted to these news?
"Brazil is a shithole"
"Brazilians are savages"
"Rio is a shithole"
"Our poor little victimized children are at risk at the hands of those corrupted cops, oh my God"
Why did it take a confession and security camer for SOME Americans to start giving some credit to what Brazilian authorities say?
Yep. American exceptionalism.
reorg
(3,317 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,217 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I'm sorry.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)JCMach1
(27,544 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Vindicates the swimmers big time. They didn't realize they were paying for damages. However none spoke Portuguese and that's not how you pay for damages with a gun. Funny how guns are ok suddenly around here.
OBenario
(604 posts)LisaL
(44,962 posts)So they were held at gun point, and apparently had to hand over money for damages to this bathroom. Which presumably could have been interpreted by them as robbery.
"Using video footage, accounts from witnesses and testimony from the swimmers, investigators said a security guard had brandished a gun after one or more of the athletes vandalized the gas station bathroom."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/19/sports/olympics/police-say-ryan-lochte-lied-about-gunpoint-assault.html?_r=0
Judi Lynn
(160,217 posts)Making a stop around 6 a.m. Sunday at a Shell gas station, the men were obviously drunk, the stations owner said. They broke a soap dispenser in the bathroom, damaged a door, tore down a sign and urinated around the premises, the owner told reporters.
One of them was really worked up, said Mr. Veloso, the police chief, who described Mr. Lochte, 32, as a kind of elder ringleader of the group.
So they peed all over the place, leaving that filthy job for some lowly worker to be exposed to, because he's (or she's) poor, and can't spend his life thinking of himself, and being pampered like a highly valued pet, and that's what he was born to do. (Democrats don't see things that way.)
Why not? Oh, they're Number 1!
[center][/center]
(Democrats don't see things that way.)
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)milestogo
(16,829 posts)so maybe he can make some referrals.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)JCMach1
(27,544 posts)the part they left out was that they had done some damage and were being asked to pay for it.
Then Lochte lied to his mom about being robbed. She blabbed to the media. That's when things got out of control.
They paid for the damage, so this really should be a non-story.
guard with gun comes in around 1:16
reorg
(3,317 posts)the guard coming in at 1:16 doesn't point no gun.
Response to reorg (Reply #45)
OBenario This message was self-deleted by its author.
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)but I put the video in full screen, and now I'm not sure if that's him just pointing his finger or not.
OBenario
(604 posts)I mean, why would he put his entire arm inside a car full of people in that position?
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)It matched up with the claim that the gun was put to one of the heads, but they have since retracted that claim.
*I'm not defending the actions of these swimmers in any way.
reorg
(3,317 posts)It would never occur to me to comment on a video without watching it in full screen, several times ... on a 32 inch screen.
So, no, absolutely not. You definitely see it when he pulls the hand back a few seconds later. Unless he drops his 'weapon' inside the car, he never has it in his hand. His left hand, BTW.
Plus, what the guy with the bleached hair says in his interview with the American journalist, every sentence is an obvious lie, which you know when you have seen the video.
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)right after the crucial part begins, which the Rio police claimed were being withheld. Seriously. I am NOT a fan of Lochte but pointing a gun at them and collecting money (the athletes can be seen holding their hands up and handing over $$$) is extortion and would be illegal in the United States. It was confirmed by the Rio officials that the "security guard" had a gun and pointed it at the athletes.
reorg
(3,317 posts)Do you know how Olympic swimmers look like from up close?
They are big guys with very broad shoulders, packed with muscles. If I were a security guard I would not approach them without a weapon, especially if they're drunk and become violent.
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)them, and the three minutes at a crucial point are edited out, yes they are then standing outside of the taxi (the three minutes missing includes everything that would have shown what exactly happened in the taxi) and handing over money. They are also being held at gunpoint while they are sitting on the ground. This is why they are holding their hands up because they are being held at gunpoint.
As I said the Rio officials confirmed the gun, period. Yes Rio officials confirmed that the "security guard" had a gun and pointed that gun at the athletes. That is extortion. If this was ANY ATHLETE OTHER THAN LOCHTE NOBODY WOULD BE ARGUING THAT HE "deserved" this treatment.
reorg
(3,317 posts)I commented on post 39. Read it and get back to me, my friend.
I don't doubt that somebody else held them at gunpoint while they had to get down on the ground. How you reach the conclusion that this equals "extortion" is a mystery to me. There are many possible reasons why an armed security guard may point a gun at someone, obviously. What the bleached hair guy said in his interview are obvious lies, though.
JCMach1
(27,544 posts)Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)We are Americans.
Gods CHOSEN people.
How dare they lock up our Red White and Blue Olympic Warrior's.
Thats whats wrong with this country nowdays .
If Ronald Reagan was president the troops would be on their way to liberate our mom's apple pie eating hero's.
Bunch of brown skin Latin types think they can have their way with the good ol' USA.
I'm just glad John Wayne ain't alive to see this travesty.
Be rolling in his grave.
Gotta go and take my Prozac.
USA #1
muntrv
(14,505 posts)Brightfart says so!!!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Yanking passports and dragging athletes off their plane was way out of line, and sending a camera crew and swat team to arrest that elderly IOC official from his hotel like in an episode of COPS was insane and provocative. Are they planning to go to war with Ireland or what?
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)IIRC, they were drunk too. None of them were barred from leaving that country. I think it was Nagano Japan. All this seems a bit much for no more than what occurred. Rio officials would look better by just asking for an apology and telling them to leave.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)They're Americans, they're athletes and they're white!
And Brazil is a "shithole"!