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Judi Lynn

(160,521 posts)
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 05:42 PM Aug 2016

Surveillance plane was not a secret, Baltimore police say

Source: Associated Press

Surveillance plane was not a secret, Baltimore police say

Kasey Jones, Associated Press

Updated 4:36 pm, Wednesday, August 24, 2016


BALTIMORE (AP) — Baltimore police, using money provided by a wealthy, anonymous donor, have been surveilling the city with a manned plane loaded with cameras that can view 30 square miles.

The existence of the program was made public Tuesday in a lengthy report by Bloomberg Businessweek.

At a news conference on Wednesday, Police Department spokesman T.J. Smith repeatedly insisted to reporters that the test program, which began in January, was not a secret.

"It's not a secret spy plane," Smith said as reporters pressed him for an explanation for the lack of information. "There's no conspiracy to not disclose it."


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Surveillance-plane-was-not-a-secret-Baltimore-9182515.php

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Surveillance plane was not a secret, Baltimore police say (Original Post) Judi Lynn Aug 2016 OP
"There was no conspiracy to not disclose an (illegal) spy place we did not disclose!" forest444 Aug 2016 #1
It can spot "gatherings" of folks from miles away. Why am I not suprised? LuckyLib Aug 2016 #2
Wonder who warrprayer Aug 2016 #3
Someone from Texas JonLP24 Aug 2016 #14
Think of the good warrprayer Aug 2016 #20
Why a plane exactly? Wouldnt a helicopter be a better choice for providing aerial assistance to cstanleytech Aug 2016 #4
A plane is significantly cheaper to fly Travis_0004 Aug 2016 #7
Why not some unmanned drones then if the goal was cheaper to fly? cstanleytech Aug 2016 #9
The FAA tightly restricts flying drones over urban areas hack89 Aug 2016 #17
Ahhh, thanks it makes sense then. nt cstanleytech Aug 2016 #18
I know someone who works at this company - they are a lot more like a garage startup than a Lockheed 24601 Aug 2016 #16
Relax, I am not one of the paranoid ones over the police using basic visual aerial surveillance cstanleytech Aug 2016 #19
Guess the BPD wanted a plane of their own after they watched the Feds doing the same thing: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #5
... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2016 #6
Anybody remember this from over a year ago? BumRushDaShow Aug 2016 #8
Safe bet it's carrying one of these or something like it. LeftyMom Aug 2016 #10
Yeah they beefed up their system just the other day. Rex Aug 2016 #11
Good indicator that Baltimore police are up to no good. LiberalFighter Aug 2016 #12
Black Lives Photographed. n/t jtuck004 Aug 2016 #13
Liars! Dawson Leery Aug 2016 #15
Baltimore's newly revealed surveillance program raises legal questions Eugene Aug 2016 #21

forest444

(5,902 posts)
1. "There was no conspiracy to not disclose an (illegal) spy place we did not disclose!"
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 05:57 PM
Aug 2016

Nothin' to see here folks.

LuckyLib

(6,819 posts)
2. It can spot "gatherings" of folks from miles away. Why am I not suprised?
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 05:57 PM
Aug 2016

The militarization of our police forces, funded by wealthy citizens. Who of course receive tax breaks because they don't want to support government spending.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
14. Someone from Texas
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 09:35 PM
Aug 2016

Use of local foundation allowed Baltimore police surveillance project to remain secret

The Baltimore Police Department was able to keep secret the funding for a surveillance plane that monitored wide swaths of the city by routing project funds through a private foundation — whose director says he was not aware of the purpose of the spending.

A Texas-based private donor supplied $120,000 intended for the city surveillance project but delivered to the nonprofit Baltimore Community Foundation, which manages at least two charitable funds for police.


Thomas E. Wilcox, president of the Baltimore Community Foundation, said in an interview Wednesday that foundation officials did not know what the money was for.

"We did not know anything about a surveillance program," Wilcox said. "We do 3,000 grants a year. Someone asks us to give a grant to an organization, whether it's Wounded Warrior or the YMCA, we make the grant."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-community-foundation-20160824-story.html

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
4. Why a plane exactly? Wouldnt a helicopter be a better choice for providing aerial assistance to
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 06:16 PM
Aug 2016

officers on the ground pursuing fleeing suspects and or for providing quick transportation for emergency personal to a remote area?

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
7. A plane is significantly cheaper to fly
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 06:44 PM
Aug 2016

The advantage of police helicopters are they can stay over one area, and if you are tracking a specific suspect, you can stay over him.

If you are taking photographs, a plane will scan an area faster, and be a lot cheaper to buy, and cheaper to fly per hour.

Either way, Baltimore does own police helicopters.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
9. Why not some unmanned drones then if the goal was cheaper to fly?
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 07:36 PM
Aug 2016

They could surely have provided just as much coverage for an even lower cost couldnt they?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
17. The FAA tightly restricts flying drones over urban areas
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 09:29 AM
Aug 2016

Flying planes and helicopters is much less restricted and allows much more flexibility as well as quicker response times.

The regulatory scheme is not yet in place to allow police to fly drones just like they fly helicopters and planes.

24601

(3,959 posts)
16. I know someone who works at this company - they are a lot more like a garage startup than a Lockheed
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 08:33 AM
Aug 2016

They use a small plane instead of a helicopter because they aren't in the hot-pursuit business. They also don't have advanced tech like UAVs. Some of their best successes have been in support of going after those who are engaged in illegal dumping.

They fly high enough to get a view of a wide area and they record it. Then, if police say there was an armed robbery at the corner of Main & First at 12:15 pm - and they drove away in a white SUV, they go to the time and place on their video. If they identify the vehicle, running it forward tells you where the suspects went and running it in reverse tells you where it was before before the robbery. If they can say it went to a gas station 10 minutes before the robbery, police can check to see if the station has cameras or credit card information on someone buying gas at that time.

They can't look through walls, pat you down for weapons or see the contents of your smart phone. Anything they can see could be captured by a store's street-level camera (remember the Boston Marathon bombers) but without the higher resolution that let's you identify an individual.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
19. Relax, I am not one of the paranoid ones over the police using basic visual aerial surveillance
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 12:31 PM
Aug 2016

to do their job LOL
Mind you I do draw the line on some things like using infrared to spy on peoples homes to locate alleged marijuana farms as that goes beyond visual and I also dont approve of them using phony aerial cell tower to track cell phones without a warrant to track a specific phone and or phones but taking visual footage isnt anymore invasive than what a bank, grocery store or gas station do today with cameras.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
5. Guess the BPD wanted a plane of their own after they watched the Feds doing the same thing:
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 06:21 PM
Aug 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141085984

Surveillance planes spotted in the sky for days after West Baltimore rioting

Source: Washington Post

As Benjamin Shayne settled into his back yard to listen to the Orioles game on the radio Saturday night, he noticed a small plane looping low and tight over West Baltimore — almost exactly above where rioting had erupted several days earlier, in the aftermath of the death of a black man, Freddie Gray, in police custody.

The plane appeared to be a small Cessna, but little else was clear. The sun had already set, making traditional visual surveillance difficult. So, perplexed, Shayne tweeted: “Anyone know who has been flying the light plane in circles above the city for the last few nights?”

That was 9:14 p.m. Seven minutes later came a startling reply. One of Shayne’s nearly 600 followers tweeted back a screen shot of the Cessna 182T’s exact flight path and also the registered owner of the plane: NG Research, based in Bristow, Va.

“The Internet,” Shayne, 39, told his wife, “is an amazing thing.”


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/surveillance-planes-spotted-in-the-sky-for-days-after-west-baltimore-rioting/2015/05/05/c57c53b6-f352-11e4-84a6-6d7c67c50db0_story.html

BumRushDaShow

(128,866 posts)
8. Anybody remember this from over a year ago?
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 07:23 PM
Aug 2016
Report: Government Surveillance Planes Spotted Over Baltimore Protests
By Yael Grauer
May 6 2015 4:28 PM


In the aftermath of the Baltimore protests and riots in response to the death of Freddie Gray in police custody, FBI surveillance planes were flown over the city on the evenings of April 30, May 1, and May 2, according to the Washington Post.

An unnamed government official who spoke to the paper stated that these planes—a Cessna 182T Skylane propeller plane and a Cessna 560 Citation V jet—used infrared technology to monitor people’s movements, and that Baltimore police officials requested aerial support from the FBI.

“It would be disturbing if police were overreacting to reactions to their own misconduct by calling in indiscriminate aerial surveillance,” Nathan Freed Wessler, a staff attorney with ACLU’s Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project, told me. He points out that the days in question occurred after the rioting had ended but while a curfew, criticized by the ACLU in Maryland, was still in place.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2015/05/06/report_government_surveillance_planes_spotted_over_baltimore_protests.html


Same incident as post #5.
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
11. Yeah they beefed up their system just the other day.
Wed Aug 24, 2016, 07:49 PM
Aug 2016

Gotta protect us from ourselves, donchaknow!?!

Eugene

(61,872 posts)
21. Baltimore's newly revealed surveillance program raises legal questions
Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:52 PM
Aug 2016

Source: The Guardian

Baltimore's newly revealed surveillance program raises legal questions

Police program obtained through private contractor, which allows
small plane to film 32-mile section of city, has been criticized as
intrusive and possibly illegal


Baynard Woods in Baltimore
Friday 26 August 2016 13.35 BST

Legal and constitutional questions have been raised over revelations that the Baltimore police department used privately contracted surveillance technology to secretly monitor vast swaths of the city, lawyers and civil liberties advocates say.

The program, confirmed for the first time by police officials on Wednesday, allows a small plane to film a 32 square mile section of the city. The tape is saved and stored and analysts can move about in time and space in order to track vehicles or individuals, although individual human characteristics aren’t discernible. Russ McNutt, the founder of the Ohio-based Persistent Surveillance, likened it to “Google Earth with Tivo.”

The Baltimore police department entered into a trial agreement with Persistent Surveillance in January and the company has filmed the city for 300 hours and provided the police department with over 100 investigative reports. According to Bloomberg BusinessWeek, which broke the story earlier this week, McNutt developed the program for the Pentagon in 2006 and in 2007 it was used in Iraq.

Legal experts, struggling to catch up with a program that police just admitted exists, are questioning how these tactics will hold up in court.

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Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/26/baltimore-police-surveillance-legal-questions
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