A Judiciary Meeting Should and MUST Take Place. Covering Up The Shit of a So-Called DINO Democrat because they are suppose to be a Democrat is still covering up shit.

Heather Bresch and Joe Manchin are knee deep in the EpiPen Price Gouging BS.

companies, and we pay for that both individually and as taxpayers.

This is not adequate. $300 savings cards for people who have been paying cash? The actual price of the EpiPen needs to be reduced and by a lot.

Also an even newer update to respond to all this. Thank you, CR!

My husband's missing one of his pair, and the other is about to expire. The alternative is not quite as simple to use but still is an auto-injector type for amateurs, and I think we'll switch to that even if his insurance covers EpiPens.

Screw Mylan. We showed his friends how to use EpiPens and we can show them how to read instructions on these too.

Hopefully Mylan's greed will bring them down.

We need a congress that will start regulating the pharmaceutical industry. It appears that republicans were wrong about the free market system regulating itself - duh.

I want to track that down.

Just google, Dixiegrrrl, if you haven't already. They're on line.

Some drug manufacturers game insurance companies by offering to rebate customer copays. I know Bayer does that with their diabetic testing supplies. They offer the blood glucose meter for free and offer a saving card so that a person doesn't have to pay more than $15 a month. I imagine Bayer probably got whacked when various insurance companies put cheaper brands in more favorable co-pay tiers and that was Bayer's way of keeping market share.

Another example - I know someone who takes Humira. With his insurance he pays a flat 20% cost share instead of having tiered copays. Anyway, the retail price of Humira is about $4,000 for a month, but the manufacturer offers a rebate so that the maximum out of pocket cost if $5. He makes sure a three month supply for Humira as his first purchase of the year. His deductible is $1000, so that is immediately burned up. I don't know his out of pocket maximum off hand, but the 20% of the $11,000 left over is enough to also use up all or nearly all of his out of pocket maximum expense for the year. Then his manufacturer turns around and reimburses him for all of his expense minus $15. As far as the insurance company is concerned though, he isn't responsible for any further copays. He basically gets two or three grand at the insurance company's expense.

I hadn't thought it through to realize those rebates counted against the deductible and coinsurance. We've had one between the two of us--a $700 one-time medicine (which certainly wouldn't have done it on its own, but what if we expected to run up more bills?). But wiping out the deductible and more is like paying the patient to use a hyperpriced medication, and certainly allows the provider to prescribe it.

Thanks for the insight, Massacure.

Below are the fantasy numbers on my statements for one round of chemo, which was an IV drip of decades-old drugs (nothing new/lifesaving) over 2 days. I took the chemo home in a porta pack attached to a port in my chest each time and was only in the doc's office for the first 2 hr. of drip and getting the line out 2 days later. I did 12 rounds, but below are prices for ONE round.

Provider charge: $40K-42K

When this knocked my socks off, I called the state medical director, who actually spoke with me. He told me to just look at the

Allowed charge: $22K-24K. Of this, about $2000-2500 is for administration, so figure $20K for chemo drugs.

Online, I found a NIH site with costs for my chemo (which is commonly used): $1800 for drugs; $3600 total with admin.

The question is, why would insurance companies allow a payout of $23K when NIH publicly states the real cost is $3600?

Peeling back the layers---first, I've been told by a billing expert and social worker alike that actually, not even the allowed charges on statements are correct b/c the insurance cos. negotiate prices with providers and these prices do not show up in medical statements/bills. Opaque, confusing billing, much? And apparently, deliberately so.

Back to the question of why Big Insurance would pay out $23K for $3600 worth of chemo and admin. services, here's my theory:

The providers, Big Pharma being the main culprit, charge outrageous sums but the insurance cos. don't pay them; they pay the unstated negotiated prices. Big Insurance can now claim to the IRS they paid out the allowed charge for drugs at $20K/chemo round, and Big Insurance has the billing statements to prove it. Meanwhile, Big Insurance stays silent on their negotiations with Big Pharma to actually pay out, say, $5K/round. The books show $15K more for payment than actually occurred, but IRS doesn't know that. The payouts are business expenses and thus, tax deductions--- the more $ that's paid to providers, the less taxes the insurance co. incurs.

Consider the $15K difference as an insurance co. profit and multiply that by millions of chemo rounds and millions of patients purchasing drugs of all kinds each year, and it's no wonder Big Insurance is having a field day and rolling in dough. Also, it's no wonder Big Insurance boards love to pay their execs million$ each year---they're keeping the fraud going beautifully. Again, this is just a theory but it certainly explains why Big Insurance would pay ---or rather, appears to pay--- $23,000 for $3600 worth of drugs and services.

Providers can likewise benefit from this scam by claiming losses to the IRS---boohoo, Aetna or Blue Cross did not pay out $20K for that round of chemo and poor Big Pharma was only paid $5K/round. In this example, each round of chemo is a $15K "loss" b/c Pharma was not paid the full amount ---and the "loss" is a tax deduction. Multiply by millions of similar tax deductions incurred with millions of patients, and this is how Big Pharma and other providers can profit in the billion$ each year while paying little tax. Yet, they're still not happy about paying ANY tax, so they move their "headquarters" to Ireland or the Caymans or wherever.

Again, these are theories. My other theory is simpler: Big Pharma charges outrageous sums. Big Insurance pays out the negotiated price, not the outrage price, and gets kickbacks from Big Pharma for being part of the fraud.

Would like to hear from others who are knowledgeable about their billing. I believe drug pricing, provider billing and insurance payments will prove to be one of the biggest scandals in US history. Sing out!

There are foundations that help with co-pays, up to a certain max each year. I get help from two such foundations and recently learned that the major foundation/non-profit funding comes from Big Pharma! If they didn't do this, enough patients couldn't take their drugs so there would be downward pressure on prices. At least that's what I was recently told and it makes sense.

I did wonder naively how the heck these foundations could raise such massive amounts of $$.

So soon old, so late smart.

You never know what influence the prez can exert on congress critters during an election season.

in Congress.

will provide a savings card worth $300 for people who need assistance reducing the cost by 50%.

To me, that means they have still increased the cost from $100 to $300 for these people.

very cynical move

It's sad the nation has come to this. A bunch of thieves running the drug industry, and Congress in bed with them mandating federal agencies cannot purchase drugs in competition with US companies.

And then these same drug companies set up their "headquarters" in Ireland or the Caymans so they don't have to pay US taxes. And still, they are allowed to continue their monopoly on drug pricing, and they regularly jack up their prices to fantastical numbers, thanks to Congress.

Heads should roll.

more than what you want then come down to what you real target price was.

Crooks.

And they aren't packaged as singles -- because they lobbied the FDA to recommend that people have 2 for major reactions where 2 doses are needed, so $300 isn't even an option.

By providing coupons (for commercial insurance only - no TriCare, Medicaid, Medicare or uninsured) they have dug in their heels on the higher price.

for holiday sales - suddenly quadruple the price and then announce "BIG SALE!!!! 50% OFF!!1!!111!!!!".

And as a note, FDA has no control over prices. That is the FTC.

Announce the backtracking with great fanfare; cancel it once the media stops looking.

Lock'em up - and throw away the room.

Nationalize Big Pharma.

He made up some kits consisting of a vial of Epinephrine and a Syringe and put them in a zippered pouch. The cost is less than $5/kit. The city no longer needs to buy EpiPens @ $600 each! Problem solved.

Overdosing on epinephrine can be fatal -- quickly. So can accidentally injecting it into a vein, which auto injectors prevent. You have kiddos who carry these in their backpacks. Not a good idea to give an untrained adult a syringe of ephedrine, much less as a child in the throes of analpyhlactic shock to be able to dose correctly.

Thats also why Mylan's only competitor pulled their device off the market last fall. They had to recall the devices for not dosing correctly.

The daughter of Amy Klobuchar, a Senate Democrat, relies on these things. The daughter of Joe Manchin, a Senate Democrat (barely), is CEO of the company that makes them.

"Hey, Joe, just between us, why don't you tell your daughter to cut this shit out like now, and maybe she can avoid some Congressional hearings and not be this year's Martin Shkreli?"

"Hey, come on, Amy, what's it to you?"

"My daughter uses those things, depends on them. THAT'S what it is to me."

"Oh."

I think she cared more about a possible criminal inquiry than leaving the scene of the crime with her fortune intact, if need be.

This jack up in price is no joke and people are sick of this shit. I am talking about the cost of chemo and other needed drugs, too. The companies just make up some fantasy numbers and know they have customers who really need the meds and will pay. This is all part of the medical insurance Congressional complex scandal that's brewing.

I feel a change in the wind. But Hillary needs to make this Epipen thing a wider issue about drug pricing and federal purchasing.

When my wife had her cancer, she had two operations, a series of chemo teatments, then weeks of radiation, and then a month in a rehab spa that was tailored to recovering patients of breast and thyroid cancer. Her medical insurance covered everything right on down to the train fare to the spa and back.

Eleven months of hell, but worrying about paying for it wasn't a part of it.

This was for pre-op doc visits, the operation, hospital stay and one post-op doc visit. Also includes $1500 for naturopath visits and supplements that weren't covered.

Maybe not so much for great care that saved my life, but unsustainable cost if I had not gotten better.

He practically considers them enemy territory.

De facto he has been the closest thing to a DINO that we have in the Senate, although I understand that in West Virginia, being a proponent of the full Democratic environmental and gun control programs is basically a one way ticket to losing any election.

Plus Heather history of lying and Joe covering her lies up for her.

the insurance companies the big amount.

It ends up increasing premiums or reducing benefits.

Higher premiums, co-pays, etc.

only covers about 67% of the premium for someone who makes only about 150% FPL (was better in 2014 but premium went up, subsidy didn't). That is before other OOPs.

They can go to hell.

ETA I'd be better off if I made 137% FPL--the drop in medical expense from medicaid covering everything would be greater than the loss of income. I got the expanded medicaid when ACA was first implemented but then my income went up, just enough to make my actual standard of living go down.

I've written a lot on this subject in this thread.

Luckily, I got better and I can read and understand my medical bills and statements. The whole issue of billing, allowed vs. provider charges, $20K IV drips (see post 60), $500 per 5 min. doc office visit, etc., it's all deliberately confusing and inflated in price to the point that it's absurd but also dangerous. The insurance cos. and providers are in cahoots and make contracts the public doesn't see, so what you see on your bills/statements is not necessarily what the insurance co. is paying out to the provider. The pricing and billing issues are abundant and from what I see benefit the few (drug maker CEOs, for example) while the many are not served well and O-care, Medicaid and Medicare are at risk.

practitioner, not even an M.D., to get my prescriptions filled.

WTF is happening to us? It's like walking around in a dream.

I don't think I'd be surprised if I got a bill for a billion dollars for an ER visit.

this illustrious Congress deliberately took out the provision for Medicare ( my government , me you, because we are the government, and the elite yes the f***king elite, are aging systemically attacking the so called middle class ) to negotiate drug prices-----end of story----------------the powerful corporations and there lackeys got there way -----again and again

I think everyone on this site and other sites should read three books by Donald Barlett & James Steele

1) Critical Condition: How Health Care in America Became Big Business-------Bad Medicine

2) America; What Went Wrong?

3) The Betrayal of the American Dream

and just for giggles

4) One Market Under God

for starters, most of them now are in paperback, these two men explain why this situation with this Epipen is what it is, and all the public is going to hear is that and this excuses.
We are the only industrial country that is stupid when it comes to health care that , its like the blind leading the blind, a media that is just as corrupt for not exposing this hypocrisy and there own corruption of being enablers, guess how many times you see the Viagra pill being broadcast on the MSM news program or during a football or Olympic games.

The FDA budget is being gutted by Paul Ryan and his band of hypocrites, just like they did when it comes to force protections for embassies and consultants ( ie Benghazi) , and Mitch McConnell is a disgrace, what else can I say, he along with his Tom Cottons of the right wing world think that violating the Constitution is just like toilet paper, it goes down and stays down .

And then the public gets the below comments and the MSM does what, watch and see---oh oh we got some news---------right.
Not one of them will ask do you have a son , daughter, mother, father, do you think the greed is more important than your family?

Lets see the response, then go to the F***ing board members and hear there lame excuse, just like there CEO about shareholders values---------------nothing but BS-------------------they are attacking the middle class and the poor

"We have been a long-term, committed partner to the allergy community and are taking immediate action to help ensure that everyone who needs an EpiPen® Auto-Injector gets one,” CEO Heather Bresch said in a statement.

I bought the other two use0d on Amazon. One was $2.38 & the other $2.50 plus shipping. I did check our library and nothing from thee authors is available. Hmmm, I guess that's because "the system" doesn't want to make books like these available.

The FDA, SEC, EPA, OSHA... do not have the money to regulate their industries and they are usually headed by industry insiders. For example, the EPA and OSHA do not have the manpower to regulate the fossil fuel industry. Those chemical and refining companies "self report " any accidents and/or leaks. When you have these huge companies responsible for telling on themselves you have a big problem because they lie!!!

causing all kinds of cancer and health mayhem throughout the land while approving agricultural chemicals that are not tested at all, or are undertested.

ya know these drugs are created at PUBLIC EXPENSE, at PUBLIC UNIVERSITES using studends as slave labour and then given off to these rat ass compaines who pull this shit . shame shame shame shame . this is the reason one of my sisters quit going to college as her projects did this and she finally said nonsense and left.

she didnt answer why she started price gouging in the first place. nothing but greed forced her to raise the price 400%

the company should be forced to give back 3x whatever they made on selling epipens

if they refuse then nationalize the company


in addition the fda should be ordered to allow teh importation of drugs from overseas

that could show that they could not afford the price. All others still have to pay the gouged prices, and even the so-called savings at 300 dollars is still price gouged.

being price gouged.

This does not just involve Mylan, Congress should get off its ass and look at other drugs that are being price gouged

Also, the dirty little secret is that Mylan didn't actually cut the list price, they only added a savings card for those who meet the unaffordability requirements. It is still gouging

Another drug that should be looked at is Ciprodex, and ear infection drug. It's really ciprofloxin (common generic antibiotic) and dexamethasone (common topical steroid). A 7.5 ml bottle costs $200.00. They have coupons as well to reduce your co-pay, but unless you have work or private insurance you can't use it. So they still charge your insurance quite a bit, and government insurance a lot.

Similar thing happened to Ciprodex as EpiPen. There was another competitor drug, and it was pulled for some reason, leaving only Ciprodex. The cost has steadily gone up.

This is a common medication used to treat ear infections. However, it's gotten so expensive, that doctors are prescribing Cipro for eye infection and dexa solution (both of these are only a couple of dollars as generic) and asking patients to use them together.

At $200.00 for 7.5 ml bottle, if my math is correct, that is $26.00 a gram. That's about 1/2 the cost of gold per gram.

The markup for this is ridiculous.

The high profile of Shrkeli and now the Epipen have just illustrated the huge issue of price gouging and profiteering that too many drug companies engage in.

Mylan is attempting to apply a similar 'solution' that still keeps the obscene profits rolling in to their already cushy accounts.

Congress needs to address the root issue.

In a way, Mylan has opened the door to effect change in the system since so many more people, and especially children, were impacted by the Epipen hike.

The question is whether Congress will walk through that door and make substantive changes to address the systemic abuse.

The one went from $15 a bottle for a one month supply to $150 overnight. We had to start ordering them from Canada to afford them.

When you have medications that must be taken to prevent a serious, adverse health outcome like blindness or death by allergy, they should be abundant and cheap. Dangling the treatment just out of reach of consumers to try and bilk more money out of them should be criminal.

Patent law was meant to protect consumers, not profit margins.

Bring them all up to congress for hearings ASAP. They can look at some e-mails that may help someone.

Even if they reduce the cost for out of pocket, it is STILL price gouging. Insurance companies use premiums to pay for exorbitantly priced medications. We all still pay for their greed.

There is ZERO excuse for this. They didn't use expensive research to develop a cutting edge drug. All Heather Bresch did was take advantage of political connections and a market inefficiency to gouge people who risk sudden death without this basic, inexpensive drug so she could raise her pay to 18 MILLION dollars. She might as well have just held a gun to their heads and taken their wallet. People who need this drug don't have any other choice.

To Lower The Price (which is really not lowering shit as one must have the coupon to receive the discount) Because They Got Caught In There Shit Scheme.

I know its the vessel, not the drug, but there is not another company that makes these injectors. WHAT ABOUT SAYING FU, to epipen and carry a small bore syringe like before epi-pens were available......

If you inject too much, it can be fatal. If you inject accidentally into a vein, it can be fatal. The devices prevent both from happening.

I would bet good money that a death from a sting was an allergic reaction. After a bad reaction to penicillin, I got tested and found out that I am also allergic to bees and a kind of wasp. Maybe other flying/biting things too - no clue. I get really skittish when I hear anything buzzing around.

I think it would be great to have on hand. I inject insulin daily though, so for me, it would be a non issue as I'm used to dealing with needles. My recommendation would be to have the prescribing Doc or Pharmacist show the person how to aim it correctly and they should be good to go. Noting also that EpiPens are ginormous. Great for kids, but its like a circa-1992 cell phone.

$9.49 is DEFINITELY worth looking into.

Got your MBA from Martin Shkreli School of Business "Medicine", obviously.

That "MBA" from the Martin Shkreli School of Business BS, Heather could not even manage to earn?

I'm workin, can't read now...but I shared to FB. Shall read later.

Damn, now I'm vomiting again.
jeeeezuss, I hate pukes.

It's like, "I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the millions of dollars of cash flowing into my bank account!" An increasing number of corporations can do this now with no threat of recompense. The very people that are supposed to stop this are on these corporations' payroll.

You speak truth.

who have cheap insurance with high deductibles .... How about that good ole free-market crapola.....why can't we buy any medicine from any producer in the world. ....if congress allowed that u would see a new attitude from these pharma corps. it all just the raping of poor working people are every turn.

REGULATE

and look for their label on the shelf.

pure greed. because they can and they will , you cusps . bah humbug.

Why shouldn't they price gouge? There's no reason for them not to. There is no competition, and no threat of future competition. The government has no desire to break up monopolies anymore.

Hillary should read books about how he broke up trusts.

As long as it's Reep, price gouging will continue!

As a result, my "allowed charge" for one round of decades-in-use chemo drugs (nothing new or life-saving) was about $20K/round, consisting of an infusion in the doc's office for 2 hrs. and then taking the chemo home in a porta-pack for 2 days. At the end of that the porta pack line came out in the doc's office, a very short visit. So for an IV drip that I walked around with for 2 days, the cost was $20K. I got 12 rounds, of chemo for a total of a fantastic $240K, just for drugs alone.

Yes, there was blood work and vital signs taken and a doc visit before every infusion, but those costs were extra. It was the chemo that was the most outrageously expensive. As a country paying for Medicare, Medicaid and ACA subsidies, we cannot afford to pay out these FANTASY numbers.

Congress needs to be called out on this SCANDAL and Hillary should lead the way. I hope she will.

If there's only one maker of an EpiPen-like device, isn't that a monopoly?

Competition would solve this problem, not price controls.

We need more Dems in Congress

about us proles.

The FDA requirements are formulated so that only the EpiPen meets the requirements. Potential competitors can't get approved and they can't meet the same requirements without violating the patents.

how long the patent protection applies?

They're just giving out more discounts on their "Savings Card".

Most of the time people on Medicare are excluded from pharmaceutical "Savings Cards". What are those who have government funded insurance supposed to do?

Thats the problem with this coupon bullshit. Only people with corporate insurance can use the coupon. Medicare, Medicaid and the uninsured can't. They are still getting their pound of flesh and taking a tax writeoff on a subset of the population.

The problem is that no one in the industry is willing to be the first to actually LOWER the price as they are all in the price fixing game together (see: Insulin - Novo Nordisk, Sanofi, Eli Lilly)

As Rep Emmanuel stated earlier today, The coupon is a "PR stunt to distract from exorbitant price increases". Its even more evil than that -- coupons don't offset high prices, they PRESERVE them.

CEO pay jumped $2.5mm a year to $18mm over the same time that EpiPens went from $75 to $600. Think someone might want to look at that angle?

Asking for a friend.

Anyone else notice that Mylar ads f/ epipens —which resemble PSAs — started month or two before outrageous price spike?

NO DEAL!!

A coupon? Like you're going to have the time to get one of those when you are prescribed one-NOT!


Why did they start advertising? I have carried one of these for over 20 years, and in the last couple, the company started to advertise.
The heck with that!

They are GREEDY.

Go ahead, Big Pharma. You are asking to be nationalized.

Greed, greed, and more greed. How much is too much? It is sickening and has been so destructive to everyday people. We need to shame unmitigated out of control greed.

Mylan did not lower the cost at all. It just handed out a few savings cards till the storm blows over.

The Mylan ass raping of the American public continues.

You should start an OP to point this out. Those discount cards are usually useless. If you have insurance or Medicare, the discount cards cannot be used. People end up paying ridiculous amounts for the Epi-pens. The price increases started a long time ago. This is just the latest price gouging effort.

There are FDA approved generic autoinjecters. You just have to get your doctor to write "epinephrine autoinjector" on the prescription instead. And I'm sure millions of people will now.

In some states (I believe eleven states allow this) pharmacists are allowed to substitute the only other approved autoinjector currently on the market for epipen without additional authorization from the prescribing physician. However the problem is that the EpiPen and AdrenaClick work differently and if teachers etc receive training on how to handle allergic reactions they are generally only trained to use the EpiPen as it dominates the market.

Considering Adrenaclick costs less than $200 for a 2 pack. Adrenaclick just needs to provide some trainers and market aggressively. I hope they take this as an opportunity.

Plenty of others have jacked up prices for insulin, naloxone, etc.

And we need single payer. Let the government negotiate a fair price for these drugs for millions of Americans.

until we come to the conclusion that we need single-payer?

Yes it's a good idea to have them on the ready, but this is a racket no matter how to look at it.

Whether you're talking about Epipens, chemo or drugs for Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc. etc. NO competition = monopoloy on pricing

When will the American people wake up and demand changes to our corrupt health care paradigm?

So aren't those eventually passed down to the consumers via higher premiums and by taking more revenues from the local and federal government?

It explains what's going on now and theorizes how we're getting so taken by these bastards re: pricing.

In short, no one knows the true cost of any medical anything due to the billing fraud that's occurring.

If insurance companies aren't clearing billion$ per quarter, yes, they pass the cost onto all of us one way or another. Execs are raking in so much dough that buying a $20 million NYC apt. is no big thing.