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Judi Lynn

(160,524 posts)
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:43 AM Jan 2019

Dem introduces bills to eliminate electoral college, stop presidents from pardoning themselves

Source: The Hill


BY EMILY BIRNBAUM - 01/03/19 09:27 PM EST

Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tn.), a vocal critic of President Trump, on Thursday introduced two bills to eliminate the electoral college and prevent presidents from pardoning themselves or their family members.

Cohen introduced the constitutional amendments on the first night of the 116th Congress, both digs at Trump.

“Presidents should not pardon themselves, their families, their administration or campaign staff," Cohen said in a statement. "This constitutional amendment would expressly prohibit this and any future president, from abusing the pardon power.”

The amendments are unlikely to pass since they require a two-thirds vote in both houses of Congress and then must be ratified by three-fourths of states.

Read more: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/423810-dem-introduces-bills-to-eliminate-electoral-college-stop-presidents-from

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Dem introduces bills to eliminate electoral college, stop presidents from pardoning themselves (Original Post) Judi Lynn Jan 2019 OP
I agree that Electoral College isn't working as the founders expected. Stonepounder Jan 2019 #1
No, it wouldn't say any AREA picked the winner. It would say all INDIVIDUALS, pnwmom Jan 2019 #2
Absolutely agree. One vote per person. President represents ALL, not an area iluvtennis Jan 2019 #9
How about something that doesn't screw over California in the process? ansible Jan 2019 #3
Amen! calimary Jan 2019 #13
How would getting rid of the EC.. MicaelS Jan 2019 #28
It actually helps California. Their votes would have appropriate weight. SharonAnn Jan 2019 #45
Main problem with the EC is how some states lock them into voting whoever wins the state rather cstanleytech Jan 2019 #4
I thought they were supposed to represent the will of their voters. JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2019 #33
Yes but forcing renders their ability to act as a firewall to keep cstanleytech Jan 2019 #35
The Senate already has a bias in power to small states Mopar151 Jan 2019 #5
+++++++ agree iluvtennis Jan 2019 #10
So it's better... SergeStorms Jan 2019 #8
THIS!!!! calimary Jan 2019 #14
Why should the city of Chicago's 3 million residents Progressive Jones Jan 2019 #11
This, too!!! calimary Jan 2019 #15
No it wouldn't,every one gets ONE vote.... Bengus81 Jan 2019 #21
That what trump does, claim an overwhelming victory when he only won by 76000 votes. nt oldsoftie Jan 2019 #23
who cares where one lives? let the people decide. Blues Heron Jan 2019 #26
One person, one vote. Simple as that. Merlot Jan 2019 #29
It IS working exactly as intended: to empower (rural) slave states despite their low populations. lagomorph777 Jan 2019 #39
We don't need an amendment. Scruffy1 Jan 2019 #6
The right wing cannot, and should not, be trusted. nt Progressive Jones Jan 2019 #12
States govenrments can change every two years Merlot Jan 2019 #31
"We don't need an amendment." 2 yrs ago I might have agreed. In this nightmare administration... mpcamb Jan 2019 #43
One person, one vote. Tactical Peek Jan 2019 #7
And This!!! calimary Jan 2019 #16
Now you can add TWO MORE Pres elections to that list that Carter presented..... Bengus81 Jan 2019 #22
And prorate each Senator's vote. Woodycall Jan 2019 #17
a symbolic gesture, no chance to go any further than McConnel's inbox beachbum bob Jan 2019 #18
2020 is fast approaching watoos Jan 2019 #19
the sheer numbers needed to pass any admenment makes nearly impossible beachbum bob Jan 2019 #20
McTurtle's headed for the outbox. lagomorph777 Jan 2019 #40
Be carefull...Sometimes the shoe can be on the other foot. Maxheader Jan 2019 #24
The winner take all concept The Wizard Jan 2019 #25
Love it!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2019 #27
One thing that will come out of this presidency. Turbineguy Jan 2019 #30
Thank you, Steve Cohen. Firestorm49 Jan 2019 #32
+1 Power 2 the People Jan 2019 #34
K&R!! BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2019 #36
A purely symbolic move, but I like the gesture. Nitram Jan 2019 #37
I have 2 problems with the EC that are never mentioned TexasBushwhacker Jan 2019 #38
The electoral needs to be abolished. It has allowed a minority to rule over the majority onit2day Jan 2019 #41
The last paragraph really sums it up... Stuart G Jan 2019 #42
If a person get just 1 vote more than the opposition in each of the 11 largest states by population, Cold War Spook Jan 2019 #44
The big problem is that the original concept of state's rights is flawed Buckeyeblue Jan 2019 #46
K&R Scurrilous Jan 2019 #47

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
1. I agree that Electoral College isn't working as the founders expected.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:50 AM
Jan 2019

However simply eliminating it and going with raw popular vote would reverse where we are today. Right now, it is fundamentally he who has the biggest area wins. Eliminating the EC would basically say OK, the coastal areas and Dallas and Houston get to pick the winner.

We need something that more closely represents all the people, the low population areas as well as the high density areas.

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
2. No, it wouldn't say any AREA picked the winner. It would say all INDIVIDUALS,
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 02:54 AM
Jan 2019

no matter where they happened to live, had an equal vote -- instead of giving extra weight to the votes of people in low population states.

We would still be stuck with a Senate that will always do that. This would only affect the Electoral College.

cstanleytech

(26,284 posts)
4. Main problem with the EC is how some states lock them into voting whoever wins the state rather
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 03:09 AM
Jan 2019

than let them freely vote with their conscience.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,338 posts)
33. I thought they were supposed to represent the will of their voters.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 12:05 PM
Jan 2019

The person they are supposed to vote for should be the only one to cut them loose.

I don't want my vote to support some trojan-horse elector.

Mopar151

(9,981 posts)
5. The Senate already has a bias in power to small states
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 03:23 AM
Jan 2019

There are more small states than large, after all.

The Electoral college, howsomever, is screwn . Raitos are way out of whack , prone to errors! ! ! ! Better we should simplify the "electors" into a role of reporting the actual vote totals from each state to the Fed. government , and making them responsible for the state count being up to standard?
Give then the authourity, when necessary, to enlist (many) suitable workers from the Federal Government to carry this out. Think of it as "in-service training" in democracy!

SergeStorms

(19,195 posts)
8. So it's better...
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 03:55 AM
Jan 2019

that sparsely populated areas get to tell the majority of the nation's voters, "screw you, we're going to overrule your majority"? That makes far less sense in my opinion . It doesn't matter where you live, if you're voting for the best possible candidate, and not making it a popularity contest, the majority of voters should prevail. It's bad enough that sparsely populated states get two Senators that equal the same number given to large population areas. A state with 800,000 residents should have the same political weight as a state with 40 million residents?

This sop to the post Civil War slave states is archaic and anti-democratic, and opens up catastrophic possibilities such as we're experiencing this very moment. The electoral college must be abolished. My two cents.

Progressive Jones

(6,011 posts)
11. Why should the city of Chicago's 3 million residents
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 05:28 AM
Jan 2019

have to get by on the same number of Senators as entire States with barely 1/3 that size of a population?

Bengus81

(6,931 posts)
21. No it wouldn't,every one gets ONE vote....
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:55 AM
Jan 2019

Just because a small amount of people decide to live in Western Kansas instead of California is THEIR choice to do so but shouldn't influence the outcome of an election.

One candidate in a state getting one million votes shouldn't LOSE those votes to their opponent who got one million and one votes. The EC would claim that the State went overwhelmingly for the candidate with one million and ONE votes which is BS and a LIE.

Blues Heron

(5,931 posts)
26. who cares where one lives? let the people decide.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 09:15 AM
Jan 2019

You'll still have your mayor, state rep, rep, and senator to take care of your local concerns

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
29. One person, one vote. Simple as that.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 11:45 AM
Jan 2019

Getting rid of the electorial college with its slavery/confederacy roots is way overdue.

Scruffy1

(3,255 posts)
6. We don't need an amendment.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 03:25 AM
Jan 2019

We just need to get states to agree to cast their electoral vote for the winner of the popular vote.

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
31. States govenrments can change every two years
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 11:51 AM
Jan 2019

and republicans will take every advantage they can get. An amendment is the only way that the states can't mess with it.

republicans will just have to rely on their ususal bag of tricks: voter suppression and intimidation, misinformation, and not counting ballots.

mpcamb

(2,870 posts)
43. "We don't need an amendment." 2 yrs ago I might have agreed. In this nightmare administration...
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 08:41 PM
Jan 2019

who the hell know what his appointees- cabinet, vP, justices- might do. Put it in writing.

Tactical Peek

(1,208 posts)
7. One person, one vote.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 03:33 AM
Jan 2019


What's not to like? That is democracy.


"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

- Winston Churchill


There is no good reason today why one vote for President in Wyoming should count as much as four votes for President in Texas or California. That is not fair.

As President Jimmy Carter said in a letter to Congress in 1977:

My fourth recommendation is that the Congress adopt a Constitutional amendment to provide for direct popular election of the President. Such an amendment, which would abolish the Electoral College, will ensure that the candidate chosen by the voters actually becomes President. Under the Electoral College, it is always possible that the winner of the popular vote will not be elected. This has already happened in three elections, 1824, 1876, and 1888. In the last election, the result could have been changed by a small shift of votes in Ohio and Hawaii, despite a popular vote difference of 1.7 million. I do not recommend a Constitutional amendment lightly. I think the amendment process must be reserved for an issue of overriding governmental significance. But the method by which we elect our President is such an issue. I will not be proposing a specific direct election amendment. I prefer to allow the Congress to proceed with its work without the interruption of a new proposal.



We should have listened to Carter before the debacles of 2000 and 2016.



Bengus81

(6,931 posts)
22. Now you can add TWO MORE Pres elections to that list that Carter presented.....
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 09:00 AM
Jan 2019

Nothing but a RIP OFF to voters and will suppress voting IMO.

Woodycall

(259 posts)
17. And prorate each Senator's vote.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 06:30 AM
Jan 2019

Give their vote a proportional weight based on the population of their State divided by the total US population divided by 2 times 100. Each California Senator would have an approximate 6.25 share of 100 votes. Each Wisconsin Senator would have an approximate .781 share of 100 votes. The people would have fair and proportionate representation and the math would be simple. Note: The State and US population numbers I used are approximate, rounded, and used to illustrate the concept only.

Of course this in one sense would create a second body with proportional representation but, I could be argued that since the races are State-wide, the representation would be more true to the wishes of the entire State and not subject to regionalization or Gerrymandering and therefore a superior body retaining some of the superior status of the Senate. The Senate would/could become more of a "Council of Adjunct State Governors". Or something like that. Anyway, aint never gonna happen but, a person can dream, can't he?

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
19. 2020 is fast approaching
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:06 AM
Jan 2019

and more Republican seats are up for reelection than Democratic. For something to grow one needs to plant a seed in fertile ground.

The Electoral College is outdated, every other country that holds fair elections goes by the popular vote.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
20. the sheer numbers needed to pass any admenment makes nearly impossible
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:25 AM
Jan 2019

2/3s of the House
2/3s of the Senate
3/4s of the States

we have to deal with reality, it will NOT happen, nor will term limits and all bunch of other constitutional base initiates. Conservatives will simply oppose any and all of them if democrats support them. Thats the world we live in now. The effort and energy has to go towards stuff WE CAN ACTUALLY CHANGE and right, now, at the Federal Level, their is ZERO, except symbolic votes in the House that will go nowhere in the Senate, no floor vote at all.

The only power democrats have is investigations and hearings in the house and perhaps some poison-pill riders on House appropriation Bills...thats it

The Wizard

(12,541 posts)
25. The winner take all concept
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 09:09 AM
Jan 2019

is antithetical to democracy. Each state has the right to determine how its electoral votes are distributed. Demand each state have a referendum on the ballot that will determine how the electoral votes get sorted out.

Firestorm49

(4,032 posts)
32. Thank you, Steve Cohen.
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 12:04 PM
Jan 2019

Fat chance that it will go anywhere but it’s encouraging to see action being taken this early into the new House of Representatives.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,174 posts)
38. I have 2 problems with the EC that are never mentioned
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 04:16 PM
Jan 2019

One problem is that it rewards ALL electoral votes from a state no matter how many voters actually bother going to the polls. Great voter turnout in New York? 29 EVs. Shitty turnout in Florida? 29 EVs. That is ridiculous.

The other problem is the winner-take-all system that the vast majority of the states means my Democratic vote in Texas is meaningless, as is the Republican vote in California. When we're voting for the highest office in the land, shouldn't ALL votes have some electoral weight?

NPR did an analysis and, in theory, a candidate could win the Electoral College with just 23% of the popular vote.

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500112248/how-to-win-the-presidency-with-27-percent-of-the-popular-vote

 

onit2day

(1,201 posts)
41. The electoral needs to be abolished. It has allowed a minority to rule over the majority
Fri Jan 4, 2019, 08:05 PM
Jan 2019

It's also the only way republican presidents got elected

Stuart G

(38,419 posts)
42. The last paragraph really sums it up...
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 04:49 PM
Jan 2019

"The amendments are unlikely to pass since they require a two-thirds vote in both houses of Congress and then must be ratified by three-fourths of states.

Why? Because the Electoral College gives the small states..(those with far less population..like Wyoming, and North Dakota)..far more power than would exist if the amendments passed....Saying it another way. Wyoming and North Dakota are not likely to give up their power to elect the President to states with a large population..

..While it seems like the fair thing to do, Republicans in Wyoming and North Dakota are not fair...(The small states)....And that is the truth..OH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

.............REPUBLICANS DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT BEING FAIR..........................................

I also like this 4th paragraph from another story about this from CNN:..................................................

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/constitutional-amendments-steve-cohen-electoral-pardon/index.html
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Calls to abolish the Electoral College intensified in the aftermath of the 2016 election, when former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton won the popular vote but lost the presidency when Trump won the majority of the Electoral College. Similar calls were made in 2000, when former Vice President Al Gore also won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College to George W. Bush. Both losing candidates were Democrats.

 

Cold War Spook

(1,279 posts)
44. If a person get just 1 vote more than the opposition in each of the 11 largest states by population,
Sat Jan 5, 2019, 08:58 PM
Jan 2019

and does not get even 1 vote in the remaining 39 states that person is the next president. As far as the Congress goes, the states with a small population controls the Senate and the states with the largest populations control the House. Not always, but pretty much so.

Buckeyeblue

(5,499 posts)
46. The big problem is that the original concept of state's rights is flawed
Sun Jan 6, 2019, 11:09 AM
Jan 2019

How can you be a group of United states if individual states has the power to create laws that are in polar opposites of other states?

And the country should have never allowed states with such disproportionate populations. States should be less about land mass than they are about population. States such has California and Texas (just to name a few) should be made into smaller states, while states like Wyoming and Montana should be combined with other states.

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