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Viva_La_Revolution

(28,791 posts)
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:20 PM Sep 2012

Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder knew of 'Fast and Furious' gun-running sting

Source: NBC News

A long-awaited report on the U.S. government’s controversial gun-trafficking operation known as “Fast and Furious” released Wednesday found no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder knew of the botched effort to trace the flow of guns to Mexico’s drug cartels prior to its public unraveling in January 2011.

The report by the Justice Department’s inspector general said there "no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder was informed about Operation Fast and Furious, or learned about the tactics employed by ATF in the investigation" before Congress began pressing him for information about it in early 2011.

The inspector general did determine that the acting deputy attorney general, Gary Grindler, received a briefing about the ill-fated gun-tracing operation in March 2010, but that the briefing "failed to alert Grindler to problems in the investigation."

Read more: http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/19/13966068-investigation-finds-no-evidence-ag-eric-holder-knew-of-fast-and-furious-gun-running-sting?lite



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Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder knew of 'Fast and Furious' gun-running sting (Original Post) Viva_La_Revolution Sep 2012 OP
During the Q&A period of the infamous Rmoney dinner in Boca, one of the questioners made the monmouth Sep 2012 #1
Some good ammo for those people that like to bring this up. democrat_patriot Sep 2012 #2
Now can we send Issa to the Ethics Committe Panasonic Sep 2012 #3
Well, that will make the NRA and right wing gun crowd very unhappy. Hoyt Sep 2012 #4
MIA bongbong Sep 2012 #11
Yep, their disappointment is palpable. Hoyt Sep 2012 #15
LOL bongbong Sep 2012 #16
And I remember at least one gungeoneer pronounced him guilty as charged Kingofalldems Sep 2012 #5
good news is that Issa is revealed to all as a malicious idiot. Bad news is librechik Sep 2012 #6
You must be thinking about another program. former9thward Sep 2012 #20
Flat Wrong on the start date of F&F n/t pkdu Sep 2012 #31
If I'm "flat wrong" then why didn't you supply the correct date? former9thward Sep 2012 #35
I really, really, really want to hear Issa's response. n/t lamp_shade Sep 2012 #7
Does anyone else find it disturbing that someone in the AG's office or ATF, hughee99 Sep 2012 #8
No. Because it was just one agent who was an asshole. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #42
Civil Contempt of Congress Charges bpj62 Sep 2012 #9
DAmnit, that's the wrong answer! mindwalker_i Sep 2012 #10
The comments are priceless Mnpaul Sep 2012 #12
Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder has a clue. Scuba Sep 2012 #13
There WAS NO gun running being done by the government. ZERO. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #14
Actually they ran 6 guns...6 total guns underpants Sep 2012 #17
That was one guy who got in trouble for it and later posed as THE darling of FOX "News",... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #19
That is not what the IG report says. former9thward Sep 2012 #21
Read the article. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #22
I read the chapter on Fast and Furoius in the IG report. former9thward Sep 2012 #25
Now read this... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #27
You are running from the IG's report for some reason. former9thward Sep 2012 #28
Even though you haven't read them by your own admission...say no more. Nt pkdu Sep 2012 #32
I read the relevant sections of the IG's report. former9thward Sep 2012 #36
That's like saying the 911 Commission Report is the last word. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #41
I posted the Fortune Mag article too because that is a good summary underpants Sep 2012 #44
The ATF stood by and let 2000 guns be smuggled into Mexico by cartel gun runners hack89 Sep 2012 #23
I repeat, there was no gun running done by the government. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #24
You quote an article, I'll quote the IG report. former9thward Sep 2012 #26
"at least the appearance" Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #29
I think the only LOLing going on is people looking at your posts. former9thward Sep 2012 #30
Wrong choice. It's between fact and fiction... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #34
So now the IG's report is right wing fiction?? former9thward Sep 2012 #37
No, it's leaving and OUT to avoid criticism. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #39
Yep, that phrase twice....and pkdu Sep 2012 #33
That's legalese for "Not really". Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #38
True - just monumental incompetence hack89 Sep 2012 #40
Why is it so hard for some people to realize they've been lied to? Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #43
LMELAO underpants Sep 2012 #18

monmouth

(21,078 posts)
1. During the Q&A period of the infamous Rmoney dinner in Boca, one of the questioners made the
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:28 PM
Sep 2012

statement that Eric Holder "was one of the most corrupt people in the administration," before he went on to malign Nancy Pelosi. I wondered about that statement and wonder if this is what his low information comment was about.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
4. Well, that will make the NRA and right wing gun crowd very unhappy.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:29 PM
Sep 2012

They've been hoping to impeach Holder/Obama with this or some other trumped up charges.
 

bongbong

(5,436 posts)
11. MIA
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:37 PM
Sep 2012

The DU Gun Lobby is MIA on this thread. Maybe they're too busy having a collective whine-fest at the latest developments in the SYG murder case of Zimmerman.

 

bongbong

(5,436 posts)
16. LOL
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:05 PM
Sep 2012

The DU Gun Lobby in the gungeon seem to be quite content spewing their lies without your inconvenient truths to sully their bubble world.

I might be joining you soon. Look at this post, about how worthless my posts are. Note the sender:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=72849

Just a matter of time until I get the Zimmerman treatment over there. I'll try to relate your greetings to everyone while I still can.

librechik

(30,663 posts)
6. good news is that Issa is revealed to all as a malicious idiot. Bad news is
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:36 PM
Sep 2012

why did Holder not know? mostly because the program had already ended months before he took office. But facts like these will not sway the RW narrative against Holder.

former9thward

(31,806 posts)
20. You must be thinking about another program.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:11 PM
Sep 2012

Fast and Furious began in November, 2009. Holder was the AG then.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
8. Does anyone else find it disturbing that someone in the AG's office or ATF,
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:41 PM
Sep 2012

can decide to hand guns over to violent criminals, and no one is required to actually tell the AG about it?

bpj62

(997 posts)
9. Civil Contempt of Congress Charges
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:44 PM
Sep 2012

Darryll Issa filed a civil case demanding that Holder and the Whitehouse turn over the disputed emails. Does this revelation by the IG make that civil filing moot. I have a feeling that Issa will take this case to the Supreme Court.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
14. There WAS NO gun running being done by the government. ZERO.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 04:06 PM
Sep 2012

"Fast and Furious" was a reference to some guys they were monitoring who were running guns and using the money to trick out their cars. The officers wanted to arrest them but couldn't because the laws were too lenient.

The whole "Fast and Furious" story as presented by the Right Wing was a fiction.

underpants

(182,284 posts)
17. Actually they ran 6 guns...6 total guns
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:05 PM
Sep 2012

On June 1, Dodson used $2,500 in ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers, and gave these to Fernandez, who reimbursed him and gave him $700 for his efforts. Two days later, according to case records, Dodson—who would later testify that in his previous experience, "if even one [gun] got away from us, nobody went home until we found it"—left on a scheduled vacation without interdicting the guns

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
19. That was one guy who got in trouble for it and later posed as THE darling of FOX "News",...
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:39 PM
Sep 2012

...the agency itself had no gun walking program.

former9thward

(31,806 posts)
21. That is not what the IG report says.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:24 PM
Sep 2012

It says officers wanted to arrest gun runners but were prevented by supervisors. Nothing about laws being too lenient.

former9thward

(31,806 posts)
28. You are running from the IG's report for some reason.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:27 PM
Sep 2012

It is very thorough and complete, over 500 pages. I'll go by that, thanks.

underpants

(182,284 posts)
44. I posted the Fortune Mag article too because that is a good summary
Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:57 AM
Sep 2012

granted the OIG report is more complete but the Fortune article spells out succinctly what all of the elements of this disaster were.

The Fortune article, of course, didn't or couldn't state Holder's knowledge of the operation.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
23. The ATF stood by and let 2000 guns be smuggled into Mexico by cartel gun runners
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:27 PM
Sep 2012

where they promptly lost track of them.

This is the actual footnote from the report that explains the Fast and Furious name.

84 The investigation of the first four individuals was initially named “Chambers, Jacob,
et al.” The investigation of Patino was initially opened as a separate matter. The merged
investigation carried the Chambers case name, but was also referred to as “the Fast and the
Furious” no later than February 2010 when agents learned that subjects of the investigation
were members of a car club and ATF received approval to conduct the case as an OCDETF
investigation. We refer to the Chambers investigation as “Operation Fast and Furious” for
purposes of this report.
 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
24. I repeat, there was no gun running done by the government.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:44 PM
Sep 2012

From the article:

"The ATF's accusers seem untroubled by evidence that the policy they have pilloried didn't actually exist."

The whole point was to attack for political gain.

former9thward

(31,806 posts)
26. You quote an article, I'll quote the IG report.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:24 PM
Sep 2012

For the reasons we explained in Chapter Four, we found that
even though these FFLs were not under the direct supervision and control of
ATF agents as the FFL was in Operation Wide Receiver, the extent and nature
of ATF’s requests for cooperation from FFL1 and FFL2 created at least the
appearance that sales to particular Operation Fast and Furious subjects were
made with ATF’s approval and authorization.


Second, the relationships with the FFLs in these two investigations
created at least the appearance that ATF agents approved or encouraged sales
of firearms that they knew were unlawful and that they did not intend to seize.

In Operation Wide Receiver, agents clearly sanctioned the unlawful sale of
firearms; in Operation Fast and Furious, we found that agents emphasized to
the cooperating FFLs the value of their cooperation and sought additional
cooperation that could be satisfied only by completing sales, at least giving the
impression to these FFLs that ATF wanted the sales to continue.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Fast_Furious_Report.pdf

former9thward

(31,806 posts)
30. I think the only LOLing going on is people looking at your posts.
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:39 PM
Sep 2012

I posted the link to the entire report. People can decide who to believe - you or the IG.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
34. Wrong choice. It's between fact and fiction...
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:47 PM
Sep 2012

The article by Fortune blew the lid off of this whole thing.

That's why you don't hear about it anymore.

Except for the cleanup on aisle 9....

hack89

(39,171 posts)
40. True - just monumental incompetence
Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:03 PM
Sep 2012

that undoubtedly led to the deaths of people. People definitely deserve to go to jail for this.

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