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brooklynite

(94,333 posts)
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 10:51 AM Jun 2020

Esper breaks with Trump to oppose using active duty troops to quell protests

Source: CNN

Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said Wednesday that he does not support using active duty troops to quell the large-scale protests across the United States triggered by the death of George Floyd and those forces should only be used in a law enforcement role as a last resort, directly contradicting President Donald Trump.

"The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act," he said during a briefing at the Pentagon.

Esper also attempted to explain his use of the word "battlespace" when discussing quelling violence on the streets amid civil unrest.

"It's something we use day in and day out ... it's part of our military lexicon that I grew up with...it's not a phrase focused on people," he said. "In retrospect I would have used different wording."

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/politics/esper-insurrection-act-protests/index.html

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Esper breaks with Trump to oppose using active duty troops to quell protests (Original Post) brooklynite Jun 2020 OP
Buh-bye, Esper! Maeve Jun 2020 #1
yes, i see it coming. The Idiot will call Esper a coward and a loser. All projection of course. onetexan Jun 2020 #34
It means the generals have told him they won't do it. roamer65 Jun 2020 #2
Legit military leaders have his number. nt Cognitive_Resonance Jun 2020 #7
That is essentially the memo sarisataka Jun 2020 #18
Members of the King's Court bucolic_frolic Jun 2020 #3
He may not support it, but he will do it or be fired and replaced with a lackey. AllyCat Jun 2020 #4
Trump was bluffing with this threat Pantagruel Jun 2020 #5
I respectfully disagree angrychair Jun 2020 #22
"a white nationalist, neo-nazi or religious zealot " Pantagruel Jun 2020 #25
That is pure unadulterated bullshit. dware Jun 2020 #28
Not a lie angrychair Jun 2020 #30
Yes, it is a lie. dware Jun 2020 #32
Show us the proof of what you claim. dware Jun 2020 #29
Please see post #30 and this angrychair Jun 2020 #31
So how does that translate into being most of the people in the military? dware Jun 2020 #33
Yes angrychair Jun 2020 #35
I was a Marine for 35 years, served 2 tours in Vietnam, dware Jun 2020 #36
You quibble over word usage angrychair Jun 2020 #37
Time for Dotard to fire/replace Esper with a better sycophant. keithbvadu2 Jun 2020 #6
It'll be Jarvanka, they get all the best gigs. ...nt 2naSalit Jun 2020 #10
Suuuuuuuuuper Jared! keithbvadu2 Jun 2020 #12
The protest is growing! The impacts will include: NCjack Jun 2020 #8
Why doesn't the Defense Secretary know what his troops are doing ArizonaLib Jun 2020 #9
House of may start to fall. rickyhall Jun 2020 #11
Has he apologized for calling US cities a "battleSpace" yet? BlueIdaho Jun 2020 #13
Right - he tipped his hand ArizonaLib Jun 2020 #16
In other words: yonder Jun 2020 #14
And this morning... from the Chief of Staff of the Air Force... Mustellus Jun 2020 #15
Yes. He has lost them. roamer65 Jun 2020 #17
But he's keeping the unbadged mercenaries... Lock him up. Jun 2020 #19
Good. Thanks for those links, Mustellus. nt crickets Jun 2020 #20
That is a significant statement on the part of CMSAF Wright. sarge43 Jun 2020 #21
Well, I Like This Guy ProfessorGAC Jun 2020 #23
You're welcome sarge43 Jun 2020 #26
So I assume Trump didn't take his advice Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2020 #24
KR! Cha Jun 2020 #27

onetexan

(13,020 posts)
34. yes, i see it coming. The Idiot will call Esper a coward and a loser. All projection of course.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:02 AM
Jun 2020

He's realizing he's losing control and public support, so is tightening his authoritarian grip. The more frightening thing is Cotton, LowBarr and Mcturtle and other enablers are in lock step doing his bidding. Horrifying. I hope to God Esper will hold his stance and NOT obey this criminal administration's orders to deploy troops to our streets. God help us, this is really unnerving.

sarisataka

(18,483 posts)
18. That is essentially the memo
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 12:26 PM
Jun 2020

From the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to the service heads said. It referred to the military's oath to the Constitution and the National Guard working in the states.

In the military world that is an unheard of rebuke to allow such a memo to go public.

AllyCat

(16,140 posts)
4. He may not support it, but he will do it or be fired and replaced with a lackey.
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 10:56 AM
Jun 2020

I have no confidence in anyone in 45's administration or leadership circle.

 

Pantagruel

(2,580 posts)
5. Trump was bluffing with this threat
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:02 AM
Jun 2020

As I proposed yesterday, calling this bluff would probably confound Trump. Generals and troops don't want to do this, not what they signed up for, more likely to cross over to the protesters side.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213528407

angrychair

(8,678 posts)
22. I respectfully disagree
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 02:21 PM
Jun 2020

Most people in the military are either a white nationalist, neo-nazi or religious zealot or combination thereof and would not hesitate to kill and destroy in trump's name.

DC proved they are more than willing to follow trump's orders to attack unarmed civilians on his command.

 

Pantagruel

(2,580 posts)
25. "a white nationalist, neo-nazi or religious zealot "
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 02:32 PM
Jun 2020

While all these elements are present they don't dominate.
They're not the SS.

dware

(12,250 posts)
28. That is pure unadulterated bullshit.
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 08:55 PM
Jun 2020

I served 35 years in the USMC and what you say is an out and out lie, the vast majority of military personnel are not what you claim they are, they are honest hard working people who take their oath very seriously.

You should be very ashamed of yourself by lying about our military men and women.

angrychair

(8,678 posts)
30. Not a lie
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:11 AM
Jun 2020

Yes, there are many dedicated and brave people in the military. Doesn't change the fact that it has a serious white nationalist problem.
Places named Fork Polk, Fort AP Hill, Fort Hood should also make one ask the right questions.

https://warontherocks.com/2020/05/of-course-the-u-s-military-has-a-white-supremacy-problem-its-baked-in/

dware

(12,250 posts)
32. Yes, it is a lie.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:45 AM
Jun 2020

You said most people in the military, which is an outright lie.

Yes, there are some as you describe, but to label as most of the people is a slur against the men and women of the military.

Done here.

dware

(12,250 posts)
29. Show us the proof of what you claim.
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 08:57 PM
Jun 2020

I suspect you can't because what you're claiming is an outright lie.

angrychair

(8,678 posts)
31. Please see post #30 and this
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:15 AM
Jun 2020

There are former military, racist rage monsters, that find a home in the police force.

It is not uncommon, that when a racially motivated attack on a person of color is documented that police officer was former military and often had discipline issues.

dware

(12,250 posts)
33. So how does that translate into being most of the people in the military?
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:48 AM
Jun 2020

That's what you said.


Most people in the military are either a white nationalist, neo-nazi or religious zealot or combination thereof and would not hesitate to kill and destroy in trump's name.


Those are your words.

angrychair

(8,678 posts)
35. Yes
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 11:25 AM
Jun 2020

I've literally been around the military my entire life. My father served for 28 year years, including 4 tours in Vietnam. I worked with the military for 18 years as an adult.

"Most" is appropriate given that the racism is foundational, from the way we name our facilities and ships, to how the military has treated people of color in the past.

Lets take Vietnam as an example. A disproportionate number of black men were drafted into the military and in combat units in Vietnam. At one point during the war black men in combat units, mainly Army and USMC, represented 20% of all deaths in Vietnam.

Its institutionalized within the military itself. We are training and deploying people of color in the military on facilities named after slave-owning, Confederate war-era officers, on boats named after self-avowed segregationists. As recently as a survey in 2019 over half of POC in the military experienced or witnessed white nationalism if some kind.
Link: https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/02/06/signs-of-white-supremacy-extremism-up-again-in-poll-of-active-duty-troops/

I didnt say the military had a white nationalist problem, people in the military did. The military itself did. It will continue to be that way as long as we have facilities and see ships named for racists and treat people of color as second class citizens in their own nation's military.

dware

(12,250 posts)
36. I was a Marine for 35 years, served 2 tours in Vietnam,
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:10 PM
Jun 2020

and served in Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm, so those are my creds also.

Yes, there a some bad apples in the Armed Forces, but it's not a majority of the men and women who serve our country, like you claim.

Your premise that most of the people in the military are either a white nationalist, neo-nazi or religious zealot or combination thereof .
is pure crap.

angrychair

(8,678 posts)
37. You quibble over word usage
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:59 PM
Jun 2020

And ignore the systemic racism that the military continues to promote to this day.
If I change "most" to "to much" is that better?

Will it change the name of Fort Hood? Or the USS Stennis? Or the 53% of active duty poc in the military that experienced or witnessed white nationalism in the military?

I'll change whatever word you want to that allows us to get past word usage and to acknowledge that it is a real and pervasive and foundational issue in the military.

keithbvadu2

(36,655 posts)
6. Time for Dotard to fire/replace Esper with a better sycophant.
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:04 AM
Jun 2020

Time for Dotard to fire/replace Esper with a better sycophant.

I mean 'resign to spend more time with the family.'

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
8. The protest is growing! The impacts will include:
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:05 AM
Jun 2020

a) the Covid-19 infection and death rates will increase at least over the next 2 weeks; and
b) the launch to open businesses will slide backwards.

Trump is finished.

Each Republican senator must eat a bottle of calcium pills, grow a backbone, and deliver this message to Trump: Resign immediately or senators will invite the House to do an emergency impeachment.

ArizonaLib

(1,242 posts)
9. Why doesn't the Defense Secretary know what his troops are doing
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:06 AM
Jun 2020

or that this 'president' is more likely to do a photo op than anything decent or constructive?

ArizonaLib

(1,242 posts)
16. Right - he tipped his hand
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 12:02 PM
Jun 2020

Lying liar - who else would president sphincter put in charge of the most powerful and expensive military in history? Someone willing to go King George on Americans.

Mustellus

(328 posts)
15. And this morning... from the Chief of Staff of the Air Force...
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:59 AM
Jun 2020

( which I've been with for > 40 years )

An all hands message. Diversity and inclusion are our strengths. https://www.airforcemag.com/goldfein-wright-to-host-town-hall-on-racial-inequality-in-the-air-force/

Included the entire text of yesterdays message from the First Sargent of the Air Force https://www.stripes.com/news/air-force/air-force-s-top-enlisted-leader-speaks-out-on-black-rage-urges-change-1.632076

Reading the tea leaves, Trump is losing the military.

Lock him up.

(6,918 posts)
19. But he's keeping the unbadged mercenaries...
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 12:27 PM
Jun 2020

... formerly known as "Blackwater" and he's keeping his white-supremacists nazi cRackpots.

Lock him up.

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
21. That is a significant statement on the part of CMSAF Wright.
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 02:21 PM
Jun 2020

A little back info. He is one of the Senior Enlisted Advisors to the JCS. Each branch has one, including the Nat Guard. They are the ranking enlisted in their particular branch. They report directly to the JCS about all things enlisted and they are listened to. They are the bell weather. Further, they seldom go public -- unless Them What Be In Charge tell them "Got your back. Go for it."

Chief just went on record that Zoomers are not happy, especially the black ones.

"....Trump is losing the military."

He's just forced them to consider ...

"Is that an illegal order and what will I do if it's given?" That one no one wants to think about because if your superior(s) are total looney tunes, things get unpleasant.

Yes, some will go to "Kill 'em all; let God sort them out." I believe many more will ask themselves "Can I kill another American just because s/he stole a TV?" Some may be asking themselves that right now.

ProfessorGAC

(64,852 posts)
23. Well, I Like This Guy
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 02:25 PM
Jun 2020

Thanks for posting that.
He's smart & reasoned.
He actually said "loony tunes".

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
26. You're welcome
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 02:49 PM
Jun 2020

The vetting those guys go through is fierce, so he has some chops.

What I like was no bs. Off duty old war birds gettin' real language.

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