& then invite North Korea to join the human rights council.

human rights abuses. I think the fact that the UN is holding hearings is a good sign as it will make the public more aware of what is going on. They won't be able to do squat about it though. The best thing that is being done is to help smuggle people out of the country one at a time. As those people come out, they talk about what their lives were like. Much like this young lady (I posted this in another thread yesterday and it got a mere 79 views and 1 comment):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017106912

there are not human rights abuses in every country including ours? Human Rights abuses should not be turned into a political propaganda tool to justify a War. You can also point to prison camps, slave labor and lack of food within some of our prisons. People see that as justification to punish criminals. I doubt the U.N. has any way of knowing why people are in a North Korean prison anymore than they do in most U.S. prisons. And I'm not speaking from ignorance because I was stationed in South Korea where I saw similar prison camps and labor.

when it comes to prisons or violating Human rights. I don't worry about North Korea but I do worry about my rights when people threaten them in this country. You want to proceed?

That is an astonishingly ignorant thing to say, to the point where I question whether you honestly hold it.

walk in another person's shoes, you have no idea. Our own Supreme Court and what is happening in Detriot, Michigan is just the tip of the iceberg. The last U.S. Election where the monitors from a World organization was cowed into not monitoring abuses when they were invited in would be other examples. So do you want to continue with this discussion? I am happy to have that debate.

So you're reduced to comparing the electoral legitimacy of Barack Obama and Kim Jong Un.

about North Korea's political system except that it is based on communism, but I do know about attempts to rig the electoral process and suppressing the right to vote for many Americans within this country, especially since I'm an African American. I feel very confident as an African American speaking about human rights abuses in the United States. From my point of view, there are some Americans in this country more of a threat to me than some perceived dictator in North Korea. We even have a War to prove it, and it is not over as I see it. When some Americans in this country begin to honor the rights of some Americans within their own, then maybe we can talk about other countries. So they can spare me the lectures.

system but you feel free to equate it to the US system?

"perceived dictator"

oy

lived or been in North Korea? I don't really consider you an expert either. I do know more about my own country though. Just what have you done about them in your own country? I have my ears open.

But I know they were dictators, just like anyone who keeps themselves informed knows that North Korea is a totalitarian state with no political oppostion tolerated.

it is a state still on a War footing with their enemies, ever since the Korean War. States that are usually in that situation, that measures for their security purposes. I also know the founder of North Korea was Kim's father. I also know South Korea also used measures to protect their security against dissent.

The Korean War started out as a Civil War. When you have powerful outside influences in the mix, extreme measures for national security exist. North Korea do have their allies in China and Russia. They also have allies in Vietnam. The only reason the U.N. got involved in the Korean War was because Russia was protesting the U.N. when they took a vote. The U.N. stepped in when the North was about to win. Both China and Russia prevented the U.N. from winning.

And from my understanding of history, The North Koreans also helped the Chinese Communist party in their Civil War. That is why they are tied to each other. And the U.S. has been trying to separate them ever since. The Russians also participated in helping the communist Vietnamese as well. This entire issue concerning North Korea does not stem from a totalitarian perspective, but a proxy War between China, Russia and the West led by the U.S. The Korean people on both sides are just proxies. China nor Russia will not let the United States invade North Korea. If foreign influences from both countries were removed, they will decide what political system they want either through a Civil War or political elections. People have a right for self determination just like this country did in its Civil War. You may not like the outcome but I believe in that principle.

It is not my perception that we should go back into Vietnam or attack countries like Iran and even China just because some in this country don't like their political system and need to resort us to some religious crusade around the World for domination. It is a crusade that would never end. Where does it end, Venezuela or Cuba? Lets just say we have an idealogical disagreement.

to maintain national security?


Naive.

There is plenty of information coming out of North Korea about prison camps along with satellite photos of camps that have been expanded since Kim Jong Um has taken control of the country. North Korean refugees have spoken out when they have escaped to South Korea bring information with them, not only about the atrocities, but also the fact that information is getting inside North Korea from other countries (TV, dramas, news, movies). We are talking both good and bad.

The crimes against North Koreans should be publicized as there are tens of thousands of people locked up in gulags and thousands each month that die of either starvation or are killed by the North Korean Government . We need to be putting pressure on North Korea instead of throwing up our arms and saying "well everyone does it so it must be ok".

As for prison and labor camps in South Korea, I have no idea when you were stationed here. South Korea went through a very tough 35 years between when Park became president in the early 60s, until the election after the 88' Olympics. I speak of that not only from reading about it but also because I have Korean relatives (my wife and in-laws) who were here then.

I never said anything about information about human rights violations being used to start a war, that was completely your own imagination.

out there to come to the conclusion, the U.N. has been used politically by some Nations just to start Wars. And our country has been one of the biggest manipulators of the U.N. by denying funds to it. And to answer your question about when I was in South Korea, it was the last part of the eighties. I'm very familiar with what goes on in South korea. They crack down on political dissent and especially among students and the younger generation.