If I were her, I would never NEVER go to Las Vegas, where they try you a second time after you are found not guilty the first time.

and the appeal set that aside. The Italian Supreme courts ruling was based on the appeal being procedurally at fault. That's what their Supreme court exists to do : study procedural aspects.

There were many comments here yesterday about the prosecutor which of course had sfa to do with procedural matters.

Jolly Olly walked free as did all the others.

But there is no double jeopardy in USA except on TV

but the UK's laws on the subject were changed back in 2003 :

The government's law reform advisers did indeed recommend reform of the double jeopardy rule in 2001 and the law was changed in the Criminal Justice Act 2003. That legislation says the court of appeal must order a re-trial if there is new and compelling evidence and it is in the interests of justice for an order to be made.

The new law was brought into force in 2005 and used successfully the following year in a case where an acquitted murderer had subsequently confessed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/jan/03/double-jeopardy-change-law-retrial

In the example you've quoted did the pattern also run guilty/appeal/appeal set aside/ retrial which is the pattern in the case which is the subject of the OP here ?

Confirmation of the wording here :

Prosecutors appealed and the Court of Cassation overturned the acquittals. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21936308

With the the acquittal overturned the finding of guilt is restored.

and go as far from Italy as I could and just disappear.

She hasn't been in Italy in over a year.

I like how nobody on this thread is saying boo about Raffaele Solecito, who actually fucking lives in Italy and will probably be rearrested this morning!

The other part of the article nobody seems to care about is the comments by Meredith Kercher's family: they still believe Solecito and Knox are guilty and are happy to see the retrial ordered. The delicate dance that people have to do to avoid the fact that the Kercher's think Knox is guilty as sin: hilarious.

Everyone seems to forget the murder victim. Foxy Knoxy was found guilty, the appeal was flawed but worked. She will be a fugitive if a guilty verdict is found and she does not return to Italy. If she does not return then extradition proceedings can begin, but that is years away.

People criticise the Italian justice system, but then gloss over the failings of the US system. She has rich parents who are doing, understandably, all they can to try and get her out of this. But if she is guilty (and their judges and juries are no less corrupt than ours) then she deserves her sentence. I thought people on this site were for justice for all, not just to root for the home team (Knox in this case).

to make the kinds of comments your making.

Sheesh.

It's fucking stupid and indicates a certain bias against her.

but it is light hearted and there is plenty of bias towards her so lets have some balance!

It is part of an orchestrated British Tabloid propaganda campaign again Knox and contributed to her conviction.

They're still pissed about Louise Woodward, I guess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case

Look around. There is NO shortage of criticism of the US system on DU.

The state should have only one chance to make their case, because the state has overwhelmingly more power and resources than an individual defendant does.

Thank you for making the case so eloquently and succinctly.

One bite of that apple!

We have to consider that the 'state' in Question is an sovereign country.

I'm not willing to throw sanctions at Italy! Not over this.

She'll never spend a minute in jail and they won't extradite her.

But as a sovereign country/state - since she is not a citizen - if this is what it takes to make sure the lightning rod never comes back - that is their right.

She has NO RIGHTS to be in Italy. None at all. No one can make that argument to me. That's Ugly Americanism at its' finest. We aren't 'special' and if one has been treated badly while abroad - it's probably that "I'm so gosh darned special" attitude that lead to it.

I almost wonder if she had not made that comment about one day visiting/returning if this would have even happened?

There are lots of people that think the rich American girl got away with something that a poor girl from Italy would never have gotten away with. So in *their minds* she got away with something then thumbed her nose at an entire country when she made that comment.

Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie and not rattle the cage. Me thinks she did.

That's certainly a fundamental value that we hold here in the US.

In other countries, they have other fundamental values, like, for instance "The state should never be allowed to take a life..."

Never stopped us from executing one of their nationals if we had the opportunity to do so, though.

I do. I criticize the failings of both systems.

The point is that fundamental values like the one you stated are relative to (often freely chosen) political systems. The prohibition on double jeopardy is not some fundamental human right. It is a local value that we've incorporated into our judicial system. The prohibition on capital punishment - so obvious and clear cut to many - would fail electorally in these United States, in most states and federally. It is a local value incorporated into (other) judicial systems. I'm not really concerned about criticism here. I'm just noting that the way we recoil in horror over the very borderline form of double jeopardy happening here (in fact, what has happened is not much different from a convicted murderer having her conviction overturned, and the prosecutor refiling the charges - which does, in fact, happen in our system all the time) - our recoil, again, is not grounded in any universal principle, but in local values. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Our recoil at female ritual genital mutilation is grounded in local values, which makes it no less valid, but we should at least begin from that premise.

Her parents are solidly upper middle class, NOT RICH. The whole family has mortgaged their homes, her HS, Lakeside, has had multiple fundraisers, all to pay for lawyers and travel. This has strained their finances to the breaking point. Her class has less than nothing to do with her guilt or innocence.

She needs the book deal to pay off debts, not to become rich.

And no one's forgotten the victim, but to compound the tragedy of her death by sending 2 innocent people to jail for decades does her memory no favor. Rudy Guede acted alone in murdering Meredith Kercher. If only the Kercher family could see that too.

I doubt if found guilty she will be extradited. The U.S. has a huge double standard about extradition.

And I don't blame her one bit.

a kid doing the Junior Year Abroad experience. Instead, she got a four year education in the Italian prison system!

She would have been better off taking the "Semester At Sea" University Cruise!

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have been ordered to stand trial again for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher, after Italy's highest appeals court overturned their acquittals and paved the way for a potential extradition tussle between Italy and the US.

In a ruling which came more than five years after the 21-year-old from Surrey was found dead in the university town of Perugia, the court of cassation quashed the acquittals handed down by an appeals court in 2011 and said a fresh trial would take place in Florence.

The move came after prosecutors had argued that the court that acquitted Knox, 25, and Sollecito, who turns 29 on Tuesday, had "lost its bearings" in the case and had erred in numerous ways, including insufficient forensic evidence tests.

The court had heard six hours of arguments from both prosecutors arguing for the case against the American and Italian to be reopened and their defence lawyers insisting the pair had been rightly cleared by the acquittals in Perugia in late 2011.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/26/amanda-knox-retrial-meredith-kercher-murder

I wouldn't feel comfortable over there without the protection of the SOFA, frankly; there's just too much capriciousness and no small degree of corruption.

I wouldn't go back if I were her, either. If they want her testimony, I'd tell 'em to use skype!

but that's not the issue here. The issue is that the appeal has been set aside by the Italian Court of Cassation which means in effect it never occurred. As such the original finding of guilt remains. There is no double jeopardy.

I think they screwed up the investigation from the git-go, and they went after this young lady because she has an "unsympathetic" face.

not guilty, but does not necessarily apply to a conviction overturned at the appellate level. Knox was found guilty by the original trial court, with the conviction overturned at the appellate level and with a new trial finally ordered by the highest court

I'm trying to remember a case in USA where someone's murder conviction was overturned on appeal, and the gubmint came back with a "Oh, no, no, NO....you're back in court again, I want yet another bite of that apple!"

not guilty; in other situations, such as the jury finding the defendant guilty but the judge granting motion to set aside judgment after the jury convicts, double jeopardy generally does not attach, and the prosecution is free to appeal, though the defense (of course) is free argue against the appeal. A conviction, voided on appeal, is in general not the same as an acquittal; as a general rule double jeopardy will not attach; and the prosecution is free to appeal the voiding of the conviction to a higher court. The courts, in voiding an appeal, may in some circumstances allow further prosecution or even insist on some retrial, and may in other cases bar further prosecution

I should say clearly I am not a lawyer and therefore am not competent to offer an advice in this regard, but it seems entirely clear to me that a conviction, voided on appeal, is in general not the same as an acquittal and as a general rule double jeopardy will not attach

If you have friends who are Guardia di Finanza, you're in like Flynn (really).

This case does illustrate why so many of my Italian friends have a genuine and visceral fear of authority. Once they get a hold of you, you can be screwed blue for decades at a crack. Ruined. Destroyed. And there's no where to go to get your reputation back--never mind your freedom. This person has been in their clutches since 2007, in one regard or another--it makes it hard to plan anything.

I like our system better. Justice delayed is justice denied--and jerking the accused around, to the extent that they have with this college student on a Year Abroad course, is just shitty.

No tough guy wants to admit that una donna got the drop on him...but if it was the younger brother who did the same thing, unless the chief was a cousin or had some sort of familial or financial connection to your family, little brother would be in a world of hurt.

The police ARE capricious over there. I had friends in the Guardia and in the carabinieri (quite high up, too), and I was protected by the SOFA, so I had nothing to worry about. I can, however, see how others feel the atmosphere of fear--if you've ever been in a restaurant and the Guardia comes in, rousts everyone, and starts checking the ricevuta fiscales, you can appreciate the consternation and fear.

this was about three years ago right when when she earned that position.

I've never felt that there. . . but my husband is bad ass so the po po won't fuck with him.

The "citizens" are handpicked by judges, and judges sit on the juries over there.

It's not a trial where one is judged by one's peers. It's a game where the government can fuck with the defendant as many times, and for as long, as they'd like.

She was convicted the first time.
There there is no double jeopardy. Wouldn't be double jeopardy in US, and it's not in Italy.

I'd pretty much say it's a safe bet to say they'll find her guilty no matter what the evidence is in the case. Since the original verdict and the appeal have been set aside, the whole farce starts over again.

It's amazing how much money Italy is willing throw away on this trial. This makes me wonder if there isn't some ulterior motive by the prosecutor and courts.

I also have to wonder if she is tried in absentia (which means she won't appear before the court) and found guilty that if she travels to any country that has an extradition treaty with Italy they could haul her back there. I'm taking a criminal law class later in the year and it would be an interesting question to pose.

then she couldn't travel to anywhere in the EU for starters as Italy could simply request an EU arrest warrant.

Its considered now that this could take years to conclude one way or the other.

I agree it could take years before it is resolved. I guess avoiding traveling to those countries would be worth it if she can avoid going back to jail.

she is going to do OK in life.

they have advised her never to travel in Europe. She might even travel somewhere in Europe that she doesn't think is Europe. She might even think that because her destination is somewhere not in Europe but there is a stop in Europe.

She won't have lawyers and advisers all the time that will give her the right advice.

Again with the slander.

What is the source of your hostility towards her, and belief of her and Sollecito's guilt? The DNA on the bra clasp? The plausability of the homeless alcoholic's testimony? The well known tendency of sexually active Seattle college girls towards Satanism?

government in that shitty prison for four years.

Or has the right education.

Her high school education was at a quality private school run by Jesuits--I'd wager she had an excellent education to get past those picky guys; probably better than the vast majority of Americans.


http://www.seaprep.org/

The whole prosecution angle is ridiculous.
When you smoke pot, you get the munchies, not a desire to rape and kill.

Imagine this....while he was prosecuting the previous case against Amanda Knox and her boyfriend, he was defending himself of prosecutorial corruption charges in another case!!!! And found guilty!!! The other case involved the famous serial murder case of " The Monster of Florence" and in that case he had the same satanic sex cult type theory and he charged two authors, Mario Spezi and famed crime writer Douglas Preston with conspiracy!!!

I suggest anyone truly wanting to understand how totally f*cked up the criminal investigative and court system in Italy is, read Douglas Preston's book " The Monster of Florence". Then, even if you are unsure if Amanda Knox and her boyfriend Raffelle arent innoncent, you will absolutely agree that there is no possible way between flawed evidence collection, jurisdictional fighting amongst police organzations and finally this crazy judicial system that allows for double, triple jeopardy, that there could be a fair verdict. But the scariest thing of all is that this satanic sex cult obsessed Prosecutor, Giuliani Mignini is allowed to pursue this...

I feel great sadness for the Kercher family....their daughter is dead and they hurt and want to have some sort of justice....but pursueing Amanda and Raffealle is not how....the actual murderer confessed, the Italians had him and Mignini didnt care....he has his theory of drugs, a beautiful american seductress and an italian boy and satanic sex cult.....and he is sticking to it.....

probably feels exactly the same way about some US court findings.

The fact remains this is Italy and their Court of Cassation considered only procedural matters in context with the appeal result. Any issues with the prosecutor are both incidental and immaterial.

....and the Italian system, would choose the US legal system anyday over the Italian and receive a more fair trial....

I am confident the you will find that the "issues" with the prosecutor are not "incidental and immaterial."

what the Court of Cassation in Italy actually does and the purpose it serves. It doesn't matter one iota about the prosecutor's past.

Thats is not the point. The fact is that in the case of the "Monster of Florence" the police and prosecutors manufactured evidence out thin air. Do you think that Douglas Preston should have been charged with conspiracy along the reporter Mario Spezi without any proof because they revealed just how incompetent was their investigation/ The criticism was not limited to only Preston and Spezi, but was the subject of a TV program aired in Italy in 2006, "Chi L'ha Visto? Numerous people were arrested and charged with the murders only to be released.

the facts be damned. Which is pretty much how Amanda and Raffaele got convicted to begin with.

And anyone applying for citizenship (even as a spouse) in Italy learns quickly - you are guilty until proven innocent.

And they also want everything to be Just Like In America.

It is blind arrogance to think that the ONLY way to do things is the American way.

Giuliano Mignini, who is the public minister of Perugia, which is analogous to a U.S. or district attorney is a ridiculous nitwit at best. Douglas Preston will most probably never set foot in Italy again since he could be charged.

I read the book written by him with Mario Spezi and it is absolutely appalling how corrupt and incompetent both the juridical and police are in Italy. On June 20, 2007 "Dateline NBC" aired a program about this fiasco. Anyone who questions the competence of the bungling prosecutors or their Keystone cobs automatically becomes a target of their investigation. They dream up the wildest conspiracy theories without a shred of evidence to jail and hold innocent people for months and even years without charging them or bringing them to trial. God help anyone who falls into their corrupt hands.

Look, I'm Italian and I know Italy is not a perfect paradise, but on this particular case, Italian law allows for a higher court (corte di Cassazione) to determine whether there should be a re-trial. Often, this occurs due to technicalities or evidence that may have surfaced at a later time.

What befuddles me about people - even on DU - is the notion that Ms. Knox must be not guilty simply because she's an American. Uh? Being born on U.S. soil does not grant immunity nor does it exempt anyone from being subject to the laws where an offense may have taken place.

As to the prosecutor being a nut job, not sure if you know this, but there are several prosecutors. This is not Perry Mason. In fact, at the later stages Mr. Mignini was not even involved. Proof? How about an Italian paper, Il Corriere della Sera, which I am excerpting (translation to follow):

IL PROCURATORE - Nella sua requisitoria, il procuratore generale della Cassazione, Luigi Riello, aveva duramente criticato i giudici d'appello: «In questo processo il giudice di merito ha smarrito la bussola», ha detto Riello. «Ci sono tutti i presupposti perché non cali il sipario su un delitto sconvolgente di cui per ora resta come unico condannato Rudy Guede». Dopo il verdetto che ha sostanzialmente accolto il ricorso della procura generale di Perugia, Riello ha spiegato che il nuovo processo di Firenze sarà «su tutto. La sentenza della Cassazione - ha spiegato ancora il procuratore generale - sarà come un binario sul quale la Corte di Firenze si dovrà muovere, dirà quali principi seguire per rinnovare il giudizio». Il procuratore generale ha ribadito che in Cassazione sul banco degli imputati «non ci sono le persone ma le sentenze».

CALUNNIA - La Cassazione ha anche confermato la condanna a tre anni inflitta ad Amanda Knox per il reato di calunnia ai danni di Patrick Lumumba, il musicista del Congo da lei inizialmente indicato come autore dell'omicidio di Meredith. La condanna a tre anni risulta già scontata, perché compresa nel periodo che la studentessa americana ha passato sotto custodia cautelare in carcere, prima di essere assolta con il verdetto d'appello dall'accusa di omicidio. Lumumba era, dopo le accuse di Amanda, risultato completamente estraneo al delitto. La Suprema Corte ha rigettato il ricorso presentato dai difensori della Knox per questo capo di imputazione.


THE PROSECUTOR - in his summation, the principal prosecutor of the Court of Cassazione, Luigi Riello, had harshly criticized the appeals judges: "In this trial the judge has lost his direction," said Riello. "There is ample evidence to not close this shocking homicide for which right now the sole guilty party is Rudy Guede." After teh verdict that has substantially followed the appeals request by the prosecutor's office of Perugia, Riello has explained that the new trial in Florence will be "on everything. The verdict of the Court of Cassazione - the principal prosecutor explained - will be like a railway on which the Court of Florence will move, it will indicate which principles to follow to re-issue a verdict." The principal prosecutor has indicated again that the Court of Cassazione does not try the parties and that "there are no people, but only verdicts."

SLANDER - The Court of Cassazione has also confirmed the sentence of three years against Amanda Knox for the crime of slander against Patrick Lumumba, the musician from Congo whom she initially indicated as Meredith's killer. The three-year sentence has already been served, because it was included in the period the American student spent in jail, before being found not guilty with the appeals verdict on the homicide charge. Lumumba was, after the accuses by Amanda, found to be completely not involved in the homicide. The Supreme Court rejected the appeal presented by Knox's defense for this particular finding.

Letting that stand also cuts the rug from under her for claiming damages for false imprisonment.

Glad I'm not paying her attorney's bill.

Read this rubbish!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492695/Meredith-took-painful-hours-die-refusing-extreme-sexual-experiences.html

Is this how you are influenced? How come the Daily Mail were never accused of libel?

That was 5 years ago.

Maybe because it was the Daily Mail who has a big team of lawyers they were left alone. The Italians nabbed Amanda, while she was still stunned about her housemate getting murdered. They arrested her before her mum got there and before she could get a lawyer. Did you read the rubbish they said about her?

The article reads, ""Raffaele Sollecito, bored with the same old evenings and desiring to try out strong emotions, went out with Amanda and met Lumumba at 9pm," wrote the magistrate.
"There are no doubts that there was desire to try a new sensation for the boyfriend and girlfriend, while for Diya there was the desire to have sex with a girl who had turned him down."

Amanda and Raffaele had been dating about a week and already he was bored with the same old evenings!!! And so he thought a nice gruesome killing would liven things up!!!!!

What world do people live in that make this nonsense up or BELIEVE IT?

I would doubt the Italian court took what the Mail said into consideration. She was over 18 which is classed as adult in Italy so her parents not being present isn't material.

has influenced you and many others into believing that Amanda is a monster. I am shocked at the utter rubbish that was printed about her..but it seems to be accept it as truth. Is that because she was an American?

The Italians took advantage of the fact she was alone in a foreign country and spoke little Italian. The Mail on the other hand had teeth and claws to fight back and they actually were defaming people. I recall they also went after Amanda's mother for slander. Not the media though.

My son was also a University (Washington) exchange student at the same time, only he went to a University in England. Even though he carries a UK passport as well as a US passport, people saw him as only American because of his accent. Amanda reminds me of him...both good kids. It could have been my son they framed. Oh my God, I empathize with her and her family.

...in fact, I am German, so this isnt some "USA! USA! USA!" scenario.....



I di not ignore the slander case against Amanda Knox either.....

But regardless of whether there is a team of a 100 working on the prosecution, or even a 1000 other than Mignini, it does not change one thing about the compromised evidence collection, the fact that the confessed murderer (who they actually had in custody and actual DNA evidence, including that he took a crap in her toilet and didnt flush!!!) they allowed to make a deal in order for them to go after Amanda Knox and her boyfriend!!!

> Being born on U.S. soil does not grant immunity nor does it exempt anyone from being
> subject to the laws where an offense may have taken place.

In theory, no.
In practice, yes.

Even if you disregard the political excuses for past war criminals (Bush, Cheney, Kissinger
being the first to spring to mind), various CIA murderers and US forces personnel over the years,
I give you Warren Anderson as a high profile example who has been allowed to live out the
rest of his natural life in the multi-home luxury that any American executive "deserves"
rather than face justice for the thousands of deaths for which he was found guilty.

As in so many of these cases, "Rich/Connected + American > Justice".

Far from the only country that practices that approach but probably the most powerful
one to abuse the concept of "justice for all" that they pretend to espouse.

This is the same judicial system that convicted vulcanologists for not giving exact predictions.

the point of absolute absurdity!

I agree that pot only causes those sorts of proclivities in films like Reefer Madness, not real life!

The fact that the DNA evidence completely excluded Ms. Knox and her boyfriend was terribly problematic for the prosecution...but that didn't stop them from proceeding onward, nonetheless.

Apparently.

I mean really? Right wing nuttbaggery at its finest.

it's hard to imagine any motive for the crime that will sound like a normal thought process

but quite a few people do think she is innocent because a) she is pretty, b) Italian justice is inferior to US justice, c) she is American. I believe she deserves a fair trial. She had a trial, then appealed, that appeal found in her favour but has since be overturned due to issues with the appeal. Seems perfectly reasonable. So she will have to appeal again because the original verdict of guilty stands.

Lets not forget the poor woman who died.

not forget the poor woman who died."

That fact that she died is immaterial to whether or not the young couple who were accuesed did the deed or not. Except, of course, in that she was murdered.

She was murdered, yes. That does not automatically follow that the accused were the murderers. One must set aside everything except for the evidence that proves or not, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the accused are guilty as charged.

It is not forgetting the victim to ensure that the accused is treated fairly and justly.

This case had huge holes in it, and for that reason many have serious doubts about the guilt of Knox and her former boyfriend. (In the OJ Simpson case, I believed that he was probably guilty, but the prosecution so botched the case that, had I been on the jury, I doubt that I could have convicted either...)

she should have a fair trial. She did and she had an appeal, which has been found on technical grounds to be revised.

Her parents have understandably spent lots of money on the best PR and legal teams they can get. I am a father of daughters and understand that impulse. However that doesn`t change the facts that she has a case to answer. They have managed to portray her as some little damsel in distress who this just happened to. When it is well documented that she had drug and sex issues, so hardly an angel - that doesn`t make her a killer but it does mean it is not unreasonable to investigate and follow the evidence.

As for your comment about OJ - he should have been found guilty even with the flawed police case. You say you may have let him go, well look where that led to - another crime and his basic admission that he did the crime (under a What if scenario). Just becausesome of the police were found to be corrupt (which they were) doesn`t invalidate the totality of the evidence.

Yeah, I know that old saw about convicted person in prison is "really" innocent and all that... But, a vast number of people who were convicted of crimes from rape to murder have been proven to be innocent years and decades after their convictions.

And how many people who were truly innocent were executed? And therein lies the problem. How do you give someone back his life when you've taken it? How do you give someone back the years that have been stolen from him?

When that can be done, I'll perhaps have less reservations about those pesky holes in the prosecutions' cases.

Italy has to prove guilt, that the evidence was collected properly, and that the proceedings were fair. They can't prove any of this. The media in Europe has also turned this into a circus giving her nicknames like "Foxy Knoxy." The prosecutors claimed ridiculous stuff like that she's a Satan worshiper. etc, etc... There are allegations of corruption.

There is never going to be an extradition.

And yes, unfortunately this case could potentially harm international relations. Absolutely.

Missed that point did you?

The fact you may not approve of that doesn't change the verdict.

The subsequent appeal has been set aside which means in effect it never occured. As such they remain guilty as found.

The extradition treaty signed between the two countries in 1984 would require Italy to show clear evidence of guilt. A guilty verdict in an Italian court is not sufficient to satisfy this requirement. The Italians have to show US authorities evidence. And then the US authorities make the determination on whether to accede to the request or reject it.

This would be in quite some time though. The Italians are not likely to battle for extradition now. They will schedule a new trial, and could call upon Knox to appear. If she doesn't, the trial can continue with her in absentia. Then if there is a conviction, it can be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court again. If it is upheld there, THEN the Italians may make an extradition request. But this will be 4-6 years from now. Italy is well known for their trials and appeals to stretch over very long periods.

But keep in mind the US has historically rarely extradited its own citizens under such circumstances. The forensics is likely to be disregarded by the US government because it was contaminated.

about the chance of extradition but it does show great arrogance when the US wants to extradite people like Gary McKillion from the UK but as you say "rarely" extradite US citizens even when found guilty in a fair trial. The Italian (or any European trial) is at least as fair as a US trial and should be sufficient grounds. Again the corrupting influence of money will be brought to bear on the Washington State senators and congressmen.

In Italy you are guilty. Your attorneys prove you innocent.

So you want to flip it. Her attorneys failed in proving her innocent and then the supreme court over ruled the judgment.

And it is noted. Many of the casual accusations you've posted in this thread have been endlessly and heatedly debated, as DU has a few posters who are inveterate believers in the guilt of Knox & Sollecito, despite all attempts to reason with them.

You mention 3 "reasons" why people think she's innocent - her beauty, her nationality, and predjudice against Italian justice predicated on a belief in the superiority of American justice. In a word, the "reasons" you ascribe to believers in their innocence, like me, are bullshit. What about Sollecito? why believe he's innocent?

I believe they are innocent because the prosecution's scenario is patently absurd, and the forensics do not support it. Knox's DNA is all over the apartment SHE LIVED IN? How damning. She accused someone else after a 14 hour interrogation, and then recanted when later after gathering her wits, and then never wavered from that? She must be guilty! She had SEX with a boy, admits it, and doesn't feel ashamed? AMERICAN WHORE! Guilty!

I don't where you've been till now, where you live (Britain or Italy would be my guess), or why you came to DU to argue this case, but "enjoy your stay".

They seem won't accept that Rudy acted alone. His DNA was all over Meredith's body, in her, his poo in toilet in her bathroom. Amanda spent night with her boyfriend and both of them weren't there. Very very very weak evident that Amanda & her ex had anything to do w/ murder. Amanda happened to show up at rented house morning after the murder to take a shower...she noticed that front door was open but thought nothing about it because that door usually had a problem ...

Their justice system is a joke, even in Europe.

, oh sorry I thought you meant Texas. Your point was?

But we dont put scientists in jail because they failed to predict an earthquake.

your point being? Should we just disregard a judgement we don`t like? Justice doesn`t work like that.

railroaded in another kangaroo court, then I pray that we don't extradite her.

is pretty tough language. Italy is a western country with a long established rule of law. Sure there are differences in how trials proceed etc but the basic system is as fair as the US system. I am not an expert on this case, like most here. She had good lawyers so she wasn`t left defenceless.

she can`t possibly have done it.

on the merits of the conviction, since I never followed the case closely enough to note the specific charges under Italian law, nor did I carefully examine the evidence against the defendants

I will presume, until I know otherwise, that the Italians pay their hazard prediction teams for the entirely rational purpose of identifying whatever hazards can be identified, in order to allow the public to respond appropriately with the aim of minimizing loss of life. I agree that it would certainly be unfair to prosecute a public employee for being unable to predict the future accurately after making a reasonable effort to assess a situation, using the imperfect tools available in whatever time was actually available. But it is not prima facie ridiculous to prosecute a public employee for negligent performance of duty, when (say) that negligence results in unnecessary deaths

Of course, the case may be just as weak as you seem to believe; I myself don't know; that's why I quoted the blog. The blog I quoted suggests that one public employee made a misleading announcement based on the assessments, and that the actual facts in the case are disputed. I expect the Italian courts will be entirely competent to sort out the facts, so far as possible, and to determine how Italian law applies

The notions that Italy is a joke, or that Italians are a joke, or that the Italian courts are a joke, are being promoted in this thread, purely for propaganda purposes with respect to the Knox case. I have no opinion regarding her guilt or innocence either

They were found guilty because they failed to inform people that the small quakes were precursors to a larger and potentially deadly quake. They basically suppressed science and told people not to be worried about the small quakes, even though they had plenty of evidence to indicate that a major quake was likely going to occur. Italy is often subject to earthquakes. There are several fault lines running throughout Italy.

guilty or innocent seems that they are out to get her


make like a tree and leave
(someday it will be spring)

On May 26, 2011, 11 members of the Italian parliament, led by Rocco Girlanda and all members of The People of Freedom Party founded by Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, issued a document as an act of parliament addressed to Justice Minister Angelino Alfano. The document criticized the evidence that resulted in the Knox/Sollecito guilty verdicts, and the extended detention to which they were subject. Girlanda also addressed a letter to President Giorgio Napolitano, in Girlanda's capacity as president of the Italy-USA Foundation, in which he wrote, "These distortions, not without reason, are fuelling accusations against the administration of justice in our country." (ee Wikipeda for references.)


When her parents charged the authorities with not providing her with an attorney and interpreter, along with physical abuse and lack of food the police retaliated with charging them with slander and conspiracy charges.

Both were held for nearly four years before being found not guilty. A prime example of the their police department's attempts to drum up public support was the fact that while awaiting trial she was subjected to a blood test and they "mistakenly" informed her that she was HIV positive. They demanded that she provide a list of sexual history which the promptly leaked to the press. It should also be noted that she won a 40,000 Euro suit against a publisher for the lies that they presented as fact.

She is already in US. WTF does she need to run for?

I love it when I have no idea who is being talked about in these TruCrime Nancy Grace OJ All-Day-All-Week threads.

As for "Satanism" angle if you never visited or lived in Southern Europe (Italy, Greece, Spain, etc) you would not understand this. Satanic cult crimes have occured in this region of Europe, but this leads to the mistaken belief that any severe crime is satanic driven which we all know is not true at all. The Satanic religion is the least understood religious tradition and often many Christians have knee jerk reaction to it for the obvious reasons.